If Hillary had "won", what would we be seeing right now?

[CatWoman]

I voted for her, believe in her, always did and always will.

But let's face it: if she were POTUS right now all of these investigations would be surrounding her and her admin, rather than the opposite.

Chaffetz and others already said they intended to keep the email and Benghazi non issues going.

Trump's nasty and hypocritical tweets about her would be coming fast and furious, whipping his idiot base into a bloodlust frenzy.

The country's leadership would be in much better hands as well as our relationships with our allies.

However, I think this needed to happen (Trump's elevation as POTUS) in order to truly drain the swamp.

[Motley13]

1. Benghazi, e-mails, Clinton Founndation, Bill's meeting with Lynch

I am glad she does not have to go through that, but damn, we have to go through this.

[CatWoman]

3. there is much pain in growth

[Demsrule86]

5. No, this is not growth. This is we could have had it all and we blew it...and now we get to watch

the GOP dismantle progressive policy that goes back to Roosevelt. This is needless pain which will kill some...this is not a 'revolution' or anything good...this is the worst that could happen. There is no silver lining.

[CatWoman]

8. well, I refuse to think that way

I'm willing to sacrifice in order to rid this country of the cancer known as he GOP.

[lunamagica]

37. What will you be sacrificing?

[CatWoman]

41. not just me

I think the majority of this country is sacrificing.

[lunamagica]

43. Well, some more than others. Some will not sacrifice anything, while other will pay with their lives

and I won't say they are "sacrificing" because I don't think they agreed to give their lives for this.

Huge difference.

So that's why I ask again, what will you, personally, will be sacrificing?

[CatWoman]

46. I never envisioned this country being where we are now

It seems as if we are steadily going backwards.

I'm due to retire soon and I'm certainly not in a good place now.

My healthcare is at stake; my retirement is at stake; my overall future is at stake.

I pray I can hold on until this nightmare is over.

[lunamagica]

53. It should have never started. There is nothing good about him in the WH. A lot of the damage will be

irreparable. There are people who depend on constant life-saving treatments who would die in weeks if they lose their insurance; they can't hold on until the nightmare is over.

And it will never be over as long as the voting system doesn't change. we need paper ballots. The archaic EC makes altering the results so much easier. Voter suppression needs to stop.

We have been aware of these problems since at least 2000. Nothing was done and it happened again, the election was stolen.

And with the GOP in power, even addressing these issues is impossible.

Having trup as POTUS and the GOP in power is a great tragedy, with no silver lining

[CatWoman]

56. I agree on all points

he should never even won the nomination.

We were confronted with a whole slew of "never before" issues the entire election.

He denigrated Latinos and disabled people. Bragged about disrespecting women.

He turned the debates into a dick wagging contest.

His campaign speeches were full of hate, venom and violence.

He turned the debates into a surreal game show when he paraded the Clinton accusers in front of the camera.

We have never seen chaos and ignorance on this scale before.

And it's going to take exceptional effort to put things right again, if possible.

[R B Garr]

21. Exactly, and wasn't this the same theory with Bush becoming President?

Supposedly, people will see how horrible the GOP is and turn away from them, but that didn't work. It doesn't work. They just get stupider and crazier. Just when you think they can't get much stupider than Bush Jr., they trot out Palin and then Trump. There is no bottom to their barrel. When will people realize that. You are not teaching anyone any lessons by letting the GOP have power. They just want the power -- they don't care about the lessons. So giving them the power is exactly what they want.

Jeebus! The GOP lies, cheats and steals because they know that having the power is what counts. And the Democrats can't give it away fast enough, and for what?!

[Demsrule86]

24. Sarandan said that back then. It never happened. Now those who think we will move left from

are not students of history...we will move to the middle before we go left...it is the pattern.

[emulatorloo]

68. +1 and thanks for posting n/t

[StevieM]

69. It is sick when starting a charity that has saved millions of lives is a reason to be placed

under investigation by Congress.

[bettyellen]

82. Well the charity was helping women and people in Africa, so many hated it. Fuckers.

[itcfish]

75. Hillary is not a

Snowflake, she is used to be investigated and abused, and she would have governed very well in spite of the republican's witch hunt.

[Initech]

2. We'd be seeing the GOP go nuclear.

You thought their behavior under Obama was bad? Under Hillary the GOP would have worked to annihilate her. We'd be seeing President Kaine by now.

[StevieM]

70. They would have had no way of removing her from office.

But I agree that they would have gone fully nuclear.

Of course, they are also going to do that to the next Democratic president, whoever he or she is.

For the Republicans to have won the first election after the Benghazi inquiry is a very dangerous thing. It taught them that they will always get rewarded, not punished, for the most heinous of behavior.

[Demsrule86]

4. How about what we wouldn't be seeing...the possibility that health care would be taken away from

millions, tax cuts, a new Scotus judge named by a Republican and an attempt to sell our roads to foreign governments for profit...Trump is the devil and those who didn't vote for Hillary elected him period end of story...don't care if they voted for a Gorilla, Stein, actually voted for Trump or stayed home.

[Cha]

13. Mahalo, Demsrule.. we would still have a Paris

Agreement, too. Hillary would veto any of their shite.

[Demsrule86]

25. Mahalo Cha...

We would have stopped them...now we really need to work for 18.

[lunamagica]

48. Right Cha. I can't wrap my mind around the idea that is better that Hill didn't

Last edited Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:38 AM - Edit history (1)

win because everything will blow over and we'll start again, or having trump will "clean the swamp". These are baseless fantasies, with no base in reality. History has shown us that it just doesn't happen.

[Cha]

50. Exactamente, Lunamagica..

Russia changed the vote tallies. Hillary, the USA, and the Planet were cheated out of Democracy.

Now what the hell are we going to do about it?

[ismnotwasm]

31. No shit.

There is no silver lining in this presidency. I can't believe this kind of revisionism is supposed to equal hope.

People are suffering. Especially non-white, non-male people.

[LisaM]

52. Exactly.

And, she always had high job approval once she got going.

[Wellstone ruled]

6. A full blown Impeachment Trial .

[Demsrule86]

7. They don't have enough votes in the Senate...so I doubt it.

[Wellstone ruled]

9. Mitch would change the freekin rules.

[CatWoman]

10. yep

[Wellstone ruled]

11. There were letters of Impeachment drawn up by several

Rethug Congressman before Election Day,just in case. Wish people would just pay attention to what the Republican Party is all about. They care only for the 1% Money Class and F---- everyone else.

[former9thward]

49. No he would not.

The impeachment process is set in the Constitution. Senate rules have nothing to do with it.

[GoCubsGo]

12. It depends on how everything affected downticket seats.

There's a good chance the Democrats would have won back the Senate and picked up even more House seats, if not for voter suppression and the Russian ratfucking. It wasn't just Hillary that got screwed over. So did people like Russ Feingold. No telling what it did to state and local races, as well. Had it been a clean election, Hillary may only have had to deal with a House with a weakened republican majority. Their investigations would go nowhere once things reached the Senate. And, I think people would get really sick of the continued waste of tax dollars, since any investigations would turn up what the first eight turned up--NOTHING.

No doubt Donnie Doll Hands would be tweeting non-stop and whipping his cult followers into another frenzy. However, we will probably wind up seeing the same sort of violence in which they would have engaged in anyway, if and when he is forced out of office. Those people are just as nuts as he is.

[CatWoman]

44. the only reason he stepped down was Trump

Personally I think the other shoe is to drop concerning him.

However, if Hillary were POTUS he'd still be there slinging ton upon ton of shit at her.

[RandySF]

62. But at least we would have had a President Clinton

You're celebrating Chaffetz departure after he accomplished what he set out to do? That logic is pretty twisted.

[itcfish]

77. And she would

have flung it right back. She is a fighter, not a wimp like Chump.

[former9thward]

51. He has not resigned yet.

Scheduled to resign at the end of this month.

[Turbineguy]

15. Third or fourth impeachment trial.

They would shoot for more Clinton impeachments than Obamacare repeals.

Anything to keep from having to actually govern.

[Wiseman32218]

16. Total Obstruction and constant investigations

[Maeve]

17. I think you are correct

(imagine that! )

Seriously--Putin's aim and that of the Republican 'leadership' match on this--they planned a de-stabilized Clinton administration. That they ended up with the Orange One in power is a bit like the dog catching a car. They never planned for the 'now what?'

Altho I tend to a metaphor of lancing a boil...it's painful and ugly, but sometimes it's the only way to clean out the infection.

[CatWoman]

22. LOL

Hi Maeve

[doc03]

18. We would be going thru endless

investigaions at least we would have a sane competant president.

[Motley13]

71. And one that wouldn't endlessly tweet stupid stuff

[Xolodno]

19. What Putin actually intended.

Have her up to her ears with the GOP in investigations and a wing of the Democratic Party screaming she isn't doing enough. Ironically, the opposite is happening. But our stock in the world is permanently damaged.

[CatWoman]

23. however

I think we can regain much of that stock.

[Xolodno]

27. True...but...

That will take time, a lot of time....and unfortunately, we have headwinds so long as nationalist ideology has a significant foothold.

[unblock]

33. We can eventually have a normal, stable leader in the white house

But it will be a long time before our allies can have confidence that people like Benedict Donald won't regain power one day. Until then, it will be hard even for a great president to sell a long-term commitment.

[Boomerproud]

20. I'm very glad that people have finally woken up to what the reality would have been if.....

Hillary Clinton would be going through personal hell. EOM.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

26. The investigations would be going forward full speed.

The other crap (the actual real stuff) like health care denial, tax reduction for the rich, etc, would be passing congress easily, to be vetoed in the oval office, just like the last eight years.

Someone would have been named to the Supreme Court, and that person would be ignored by the appropriate committees in the Senate.

Much moaning about the collection of swamp-critters staffing the White House.

[JI7]

28. no Gorsuch on SC

[CatWoman]

29. and you truly think the GOP would have allowed a Hillary SCOTUS pick?

these people have absolutely no decency. or morals. or respect.

[JI7]

30. they would have put garland to a vote before she took office

But either way no gorsuch. Veto power over aca.

Would be doing well on world stage.

[left-of-center2012]

32. The torch and pitchfork crowd would surround the White House

[asuhornets]

34. If Hillary won, the Dems were in charge of the House & Senate-then good things would have happened..

[karynnj]

57. The House was very unlikely. The Senate more likely.

[asuhornets]

64. We have to find a way to get the House back, it's not impossible....n/t

[Mike Nelson]

35. We'd be...

...celebrating a new Supreme Court justice, improved domestic programs and a better standing in world affairs. Legislation would be debated between progressives and moderates, with the Republican Party in post-election disarray. The majority of Americans would be proud! The Tea Party and Trump supporters would be unhinged!

[lunamagica]

36. I disagree so much, so much with you that I don't know where to start

"But let's face it: if she were POTUS right now all of these investigations would be surrounding her and her admin, rather than the opposite. " These investigations? Would she be investigated with treason? NO WAY.

Hillary has been the subject of right win smears for 30 yrs, and yet she was a great first lady, a senator who won by a bigger margin for her second therm, and if it hadn't been for Comey and the Russians, would have won by a landslide. As it, she received over three million more votes than he did. She is used to deal with right wingers and knows how to handle those situations

When you say "all of these investigations would be surrounding her and her admin" it sounds like you are saying that Democrats are really on a witch hunt, trying to hang crimes on him just to get rid of him, when in fact, trump is indeed a criminal who needs to pay for his crimes.

I remember in 2000, when Susan Sarandon and her ilk where saying the same thing. That having W in office was necessary to "drain the swamp" (they used other words, but the meaning was the same)

And then what happened? Destruction, millions of innocent lives lost, for what? Because at the end what happened is that the country moved further to the right. See, that is what happens with GOP in power. The country moves further to the RIGHT.

What would move this country to the left is incrementalism. Hillary would have continued Obama's policies and would be going fthem And I think not having Hillary Clinton as POTUS is a real tragedy.

I find that people who say this needed to happen are people who ( like Susan Sarandon) will not be directly affected by this. Please, tell the millions of people who with die when they lose their health insurance that this needed to happen. Tell it to the children witnessing their parents getting taken away bu ICE. Tell it to the man who was hit by a car and as he lay on the pavement the first question that he was asked was "are you illegally in the country?"

Tell it to them.

[frazzled]

38. Huge difference, and wrong conclusion

So no, no, and no.

First, yes ... the Republicans would be holding all kinds of investigations--false ones. Because this woman has been investigated up the wahoo for decades and nothing has been found wrong.

So that means that while the Republicans waste their time and ours with fake investigations, the following would happen under a Clinton presidency:

1. The Department of Justice would not be investigating, because there would be nothing further that they haven't already investigated and cleared her on.
2. The President(ess) would not be driving the world mad with tweets, but rather working hard every day to achieve whatever might be possible with an opposition Congress.
3. She would not be undoing every climate regulation at the EPA, but rather strengthening them.
4. She would not be undoing every financial regulation that has been put in since 2009, but strengthening them.
5. She would not be alienating all our allies or cozying up to dictators.
6. She would be populating the agencies with real, experienced, proactive heads.
7. She would have a cabinet that is smart and didn't contain people like DeVos and Perry and the others who are really there to destroy those departments.
8. She would be trying to get to the bottom of the very serious issue of Russian hacking and interfering, instead of denying it exists.

The investigations going on with Trump and his campaign collaborators right now are real, and they are serious. In the meantime, much damage is being done to the country. Whatever nonsense dog-and-pony shows the Republicans would be putting on, a Clinton presidency would still be functional. It would still be trying to move the country forward instead of tearing it apart.

To think there is any benefit to Trump and his chaotic, corrupt reign is nihilistic in the extreme. Sorry, but the "destroy everything to make it better" idea is a really really bad one.

[CatWoman]

42. I think I spend too much time surrounded by the enemy (the right wing)

there is no limit to their stupidity and hatred.

I'm not in any means applauding or advocating destroying everything to make things better.

I'm about surviving this bumpy ride. Period.

[lunamagica]

45. + A MILLION! Oh, that sounds WONDERFUL...if only!

[karynnj]

39. We would be complaining that she was not making much progress

We would not know the Trump dysphoria and at best she would have a near 50/50 Senate and a Republican house. As ours said the House would be wasting time investigating HRC.

I think there would be few things she could do by EO not already done by Obama. We would not realise how important it was that we were not going backward and our real allies would still respect us.

I think any Democrat would have had the same lack of ability to move social issues forward. She would have kept us in Paris and been good on NATO.

[onetexan]

40. definitely not the shitshow we're witnessing now

that's for sure. And the majority of us would be able to sleep better.

[roamer65]

47. Nonstop Benghazi bullshit.

[RandySF]

54. There is no silver lining.

Trump is putting the country through Hell right now. And people like Ssan Srandon thought it might spur some kind of revolution.

[CatWoman]

59. so what's the alternative? Is there an allternative to a silver lining?

Is there absolutely NO hope?

I'll admit that I'm ignorant to the "Susan Sarandon" meme I keep seeing.

[RandySF]

61. Susan Sarandon: Trump more likely to bring 'revolution' than Clinton

(CNN)Susan Sarandon, a Bernie Sanders' surrogate, says Donald Trump would be more likely to usher in "the revolution" than Hillary Clinton.

The actress told MSNBC's Chris Hayes Monday she doesn't think she could vote for Clinton in a hypothetical match-up between the two party front-runners.

"I think Bernie would probably encourage people (to support Clinton) because he doesn't have any ego in this thing. But I think a lot of people are, 'Sorry, I just can't bring myself to do that,' " Sarandon said of voting for Clinton in the general election. "I don't know. I'm going to see what happens."

An incredulous Hayes asked Sarandon if that meant she would vote for Trump.

"Some people feel that Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately, if he gets in. Then things will really, you know, explode," Sarandon said, referring to the political "revolution" Sanders preaches about on the trail.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/29/politics/susan-sarandon-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/index.html

[CatWoman]

63. damn Susan

[Blue_true]

55. We would not have had a full blown assault on the environment, poor people.

Handing trillions of dollars to the very rich, damage to our nation's image abroad, treason against our country and everything it stands for.

[Calista241]

58. I'm convinced the Russian had a LOT more information from the DNC and perhaps everyone's

stuff on her home server. Putin hates her guts, and he's had his intelligence services looking into her for years. We'd see videos of her speeches to Wall Street, evidence from foreign donors with sketchy ties, all kinds of shit would come out.

They would be releasing that stuff piecemeal for years to handicap her Presidency. The press would have interns assigned to check Wikileaks every day for the latest Hillary gossip.

On the other hand, we'd still be in the Paris Climate agreement, European officials wouldn't hate our guts, and we'd have some semblance of social justice here in our country.

[phleshdef]

65. I believe things would be stable and slow moving.

The current chaos would not be happening.

[romanic]

66. We'd probably see stability in her administration (ie no constant resigning)

but the scandals would continue with "investigations" from Benghazi, her emails, etc; especially if Republicans had still won the majorities they have now in the government.

[CatWoman]

67. you articulated the situation a lot better than I did

thanks

[KG]

72. unicorns that fart skittles in every garage!

[Joe941]

73. The sea levels would be receding.

[JoeStuckInOH]

74. Pretty much the same level of outrage except with the roles reversed and even less getting done.

You have the R's trying to investigate her dirty laundry and trump still running the nonstop twitter campaigns. Although it'd be a guaranteed legislative and SCOTUS gridlock because the R's have the Senate and House.

[pirateshipdude]

76. We would be seeing, Awesome. Eom

[Eliot Rosewater]

78. Needed to happen? Nah, SC is lost for two generations, was lost when the GOP

denied the American people their insistence on Obama filling the seat, actually.


Even if Trump is impeached, which were he a democrat he would have been the day after inauguration, even if he is one of the worst human beings in America takes his place, and that is Pence or Ryan or McConnell, all 3 of these people are the lowest form of disgusting criminal.

[get the red out]

79. Horrific attacks on her

The media would cover nothing else.

But we would be much safer. People wouldn't be about to lose their health care. Her nominee for the Supreme Court would be stuck in Congress, but not an R extremist.

I was dreading the evil the Rs would unleash on her when she was elected, dreading having to try to avoid it on TV since I knew the media wouldn't cover anything else. But I would have been a lot happier avoiding that than living in this sick RW insanity the Russians gave us.

[still_one]

80. Not if we won the Senate

[LonePirate]

81. Her email server and the 8 member SCOTUS due to Repubs refusing to vote on her nominee.

[NurseJackie]

83. That sounds familiar...

====================================
"However, I think this needed to happen (Trump's elevation as POTUS) in order to truly drain the swamp."
====================================

Susan Sarandon was saying something very similar the other day (not those words, but that same sentiment.) It was almost as if she thought that Trump's presidency was a good thing. (I can't figure her out sometimes.) Was she spouting out a variation of the "burn it down to rebuild it" philosophy?

[jalan48]

84. I think she would be trying to appeal to the best in people instead of the worst.