General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow difficult should it be to remove a president?...
The tools are there but Congress has to be willing to use them. The argument I've seen against making it any easier is that if you guys had a democratic president and it was easier to remove a president then the republicans would be abusing that day and night. And I agree that's a problem especially with the ilk you guys have for republicans. But. The problem as I see it now is that if you have a party that controls both houses and the vast majority of them are willing to put greed ahead of country, democracy. Then even if the president is a dictator there's not much you can do to remove him if those in Congress won't use the tools available. Should there be any other mechanisms?
milestogo
(16,829 posts)as well as more ways to remove a dysfunctional president from office. It feels like our hands our tied.
Locut0s
(6,154 posts)Trump shows that a lack of competency is no barrier at all to the presidency. And I'm sure "god fearing, flag waving" Americans would argue that's as it should be in a "truly free country". Only they would be totally missing the fact that it's actually easier for someone like Trump to get elected than say a highly qualified woman. Or quite likely another black candidate. So it's not actually fair and balanced, white morons have a better chance that even the best of any other candidates. The playing field needs to be leveled and some kind of real vetting processes put in place.
unblock
(52,328 posts)Perhaps congress could force an interim election.
That would be abused by partisan congresses, but it would put most of the power in the hands of the voters.
C_U_L8R
(45,021 posts)would be improved by making it easier for more people to vote... even better if they are armed with factual information and true insights/data/news/etc
Locut0s
(6,154 posts)You are talking about things that are deeply rooted in american culture. Lack of proper education, mistrust of education, access to quality news etc. These are cultural and generational changes that I think the US desperately needed to addresses if they want to avoid becoming totally irrelevant as a nation. However they are also extraordinarily difficult subjects to tackle. And ones that may take at least a generation of sustained effort to bare fruit. Not that that's not worth it of course.
frankieallen
(583 posts)Whatever
MedusaX
(1,129 posts)>snip<
As Justice Stevens wrote, in distinguishing Fitzgerald, we have never suggested that the President, or any other official, has an immunity that extends beyond the scope of any action taken in an official capacity. As he continued later in the opinion, Petitioners effort to construct an immunity from suit for unofficial acts grounded purely in the identity of his office is unsupported by precedent. Again, the implication is that there is some conduct taken even while a President is in office that is beyond the outer perimeter of his official duties and thus would support litigation.
>snip<
Consider, for example, the Foreign Gifts and Decorations Act (the statute that implements the Foreign Emoluments Clause), which expressly defines the class of individuals who can violate the statute (and can therefore be held civilly liable for such violations) to include the President and the Vice President. To be sure, only the Attorney General is authorized to bring such a civil action, but its not at all clear that, were such a matter ever to be pursued, Fitzgerald immunity would apply.
>snip<
Caveat #3: Civil Litigation as a Separation of Powers Mechanism of Last Resort
The last caveat is perhaps the most ethereal. It is also the weakest. But it is there if the Supreme Court were ever to want a hook on which to further narrow Fitzgerald: The majority in that case went out of its way to differentiate ordinary civil litigation from litigation designed
to protect the separation of powers (in part to distinguish earlier cases in which Presidents were successfully dragged into court, including the far more prominent Supreme Court decision vis-à-vis Nixon in 1974).
As Justice Powell concluded,
When judicial action is needed to serve broad public interestsas when the Court acts, not in derogation of the separation of powers,
but to maintain their proper balance, or to vindicate the public interest in an ongoing criminal prosecution
the exercise of jurisdiction has been held warranted.
In the case of this merely private suit for damages based on a Presidents official acts, we hold it is not.
It is possible, although not obvious, that this language could be read to turn at least in part on
the sufficiency of the other mechanisms to which the Fitzgerald Court alluded as protecting the separation of powers, including [v]igilant oversight by Congress,
the need to maintain prestige as an element of Presidential influence,
and a Presidents traditional concern for his historical stature.
Perhaps, in a case in which the Supreme Court were sufficiently concerned about the adequacy of these mechanisms,
the need[] to serve broad public interests
might militate in favor of certain types of civil litigation against a sitting President,
rather than, as in Fitzgerald, against it.
This caveat isnt nearly as obvious (or as strong) as the others, but it is impossible to miss in re-reading the Fitzgerald opinion with Trump in mind.
The successful exploitation of this caveat, if it is possible at all,
would require a plaintiff to argue that there is some high public purpose to the action that distinguishes it from this merely private suit for damages.
>snip<
Lots more at
https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-presidents-absolute-immunity-be-trumped
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)For both the legislative and executive branches. The Constitution was framed in an era when total power still resided in kings and emperors -- indeed, the sovereign WAS the state. The Founders did the best they could to embrace democratic principles, but that kind of thinking still worked its way into much of what they created: the total power of the executive branch vested in one man alone, and two political branches with unreviewable power save for one day every 2-4 years.
Warpy
(111,352 posts)If it had been easy, Clinton would have been out as soon as he won a second term and Obama would have been out early in his first.
Removing him on health grounds would be even harder since no one but a tame doctor will ever get in to see him.
pnwest
(3,266 posts)imagine how the repubs would abuse that power if it were easy.