The problem I have with Bernie...

[kentuck]

And I say this as one of the earliest supporters of Bernie.

But, I do not particularly like the campaign mode he is exhibiting, at this time, as if there is nothing better for people to be concerned about?

There is a time to campaign and there is a time to fight the battles in front of us. He seems a bit out of touch at this time, in my opinion.

[Me.]

1. For Once Kentuck

You and I can agree on the matter of BS

[NCTraveler]

2. I don't think it's anything new.

While he is a career politician he is an activist at heart. Always been this way it's just in the last election everything aligned for him to rapidly grow in stature.

I think the distinction you are making is what endears him to people the most. He is campaigning in the style of an activist who has just found power after fifty plus years.

This is meant to be respectful and I hope it is read that way.

[Demsrule86]

4. We don't need an activist at this time...we need a Trump fighter.

[NCTraveler]

5. Sanders is fighting Trump.

He is fighting everything and everyone. It dilutes his message in a major way.

[Demsrule86]

8. You have a point...the dilution of his message makes it seem so.

[JCanete]

12. or it makes him not look like a partisan hack. There is consistency that isn't party based.

[Champion Jack]

52. bingo

[stevenleser]

144. I'm glad most people here aren't buying that. nt

[JCanete]

158. its still true. You can't be taken seriously if you only have criticisms for one party when they do

something and not the other when it does the same thing, unless you're Trump and that's your base.

[stevenleser]

172. Nope, it's not true. nt

[JCanete]

173. yaha!

[JCanete]

174. Here Steve, I've got this one for you.... Nahah!

[NurseJackie]

167. LOL

[JCanete]

171. LOL right? Lets replace LOL with all coherent LOL! LOL!

[leftynyc]

76. While trashing the Democratic

party. He's providing a ton of ammunition that w're bound to see in ads in 2018. He is NOT helping OUR party.(one he still refuses to join).

[brush]

128. Unfortunately that "everything" includes the Democratic Party. He's a broken record on that...

with its frequency.

Very divisive, especially regarding the opportunity at great exposure afforded to him by the Dems in allowing him to run as a Dem.

[NCTraveler]

131. Agree. It's clear to me that it's self promotion at this point.

He knows his base well.

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. We need someone dedicated to electing ANY and ALL democrats in 2018

[Champion Jack]

54. we need what is good for the country

[Demsrule86]

60. Electing Democrat is good for the country...and electing Republicans is not ever good for anyone.

[Champion Jack]

65. That may be a comforting thought

But, life is rarely that simple

[leftynyc]

77. It IS that simple.

You can rail about the process until you're blue in the face. It's what we have to work with and the purity police are part of the problem. A big part.

[Demsrule86]

84. It is that simple. Had we elected Sec. Clinton...we would not have a wall street deregulation bill

passed in Congress, in danger of losing health care, medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and endangered civil rights...it is that simple. Vote Democratic always or pay the price. And those that use their votes as a weapon against the Democratic Party are of the right ...not the left. No progressive would want what Trump or the GOP are selling.

[brush]

130. Oh yeah? Well tell us when and where electing a repug worked out well for the country?

Or for anyone besides billionaires, millionaires and said bought-and-paid-for repug?

That part of life is that simple.

[stevenleser]

145. Yeah, that person really stepped into it with that remark. nt

[Champion Jack]

178. maybe it's time to think outside of the 2 party box

[brush]

180. Ya didn't answer the question. Maybe it's time to do my "Kamala Harris schtick"...

I repeat, when and where did electing a repug worked out well for the country?

Or for anyone besides billionaires, millionaires and said bought-and-paid-for repug?

[kcr]

148. Two party system. We have a two party system.

So, yes. It really is as simple as one, two.

[Champion Jack]

179. maybe that's not such a good thing?

[brush]

181. You actually have a good point, but perhaps for its own thread

I will add that during the campaign many of us wondered and asked Sanders' supporters many times why they didn't start their own party instead of constantly bashing the Democratic Party?

I'm not against a parliamentary system where coalitions with ally parties can be formed but we both know the chances of that happening are just about remote as McConnell and Ryan becoming Dem favorites.

A stronger other party than the Greens and Libertarians is possible though — one that doesn't just attack the Democrats like the Greens do.

[Eliot Rosewater]

97. We need someone dedicated to electing ANY and ALL democrats in 2018

[karynnj]

39. No matter what you think of Sanders, what we need now is activists - activists ARE Trump fighters

Why do you think Hillary Clinton started "Onward together". That is a PAC supporting the work of many activist groups. What do you think John Kerry and Al Gore are speaking of as they both say that the American people support working against climate change.

Where Sanders ( and Kerry for that matter) have their roots in activism, I would suggest that Clinton is actually trying to follow in Gore's footsteps realizing that - at least for now - she can do the most as an outsider being an activist.

One thing true about some activists is that they spend most of their time advocating for what they believe in - possibly missing compromises that can expand the majority. I suspect that Bernie oftens ends up like that --even though as a Congressman and Senator he could and did find working compromises.

[Demsrule86]

49. I think Sen Sanders hurts Democrats more than he helps us. I wish he would consider the best way to

take Trump down rather than 'fixes' for the Democratic Party.

[GhostofFDR]

66. Hmmm

Most popular political figure in America hurts Democrats?

51% of Republicans view him favorably
74% of Independents.
80% of Democrats


18-34 : 62% *(now the largest voting contingent)

African Americans: 73%
Asians : 62%
Hispanics: 68%
Whites: 52%
Men: 55%
Women: 58%

So, maybe you don't like him, but he isn't hurting Democrats.

[leftynyc]

79. Those numbers help HIM

Not the party (which he doesn't belong to). I'm sick to death of people telling Hillary to shut the fuck up but the loser of the nomination should parade his bitterness throughout the land.

[Demsrule86]

85. Link to poll please...I would bet it is an old one...and if he is popular,

his words of condemnation are perhaps more destructive for the Democratic Party. I do not understand why Sen. Sanders feels the need to say the things he does. It is not helpful.

[GhostofFDR]

105. It's from

PPP at the beginning of June, and The Hill from the beginning of May.

[Demsrule86]

139. Couldn't find the polls

I mixed up this post with an ossoff post, but I looked quite thoroughly, and I could find no poll about Sen. Sanders after April by either the PPP or the Hill. Perhaps you have a link? Among Democrats I do not believe his popularity is rising...those of us that belong to the party don't care for the criticisms mostly...I think those that like him are not Democrats and some may even be of the right...hard to tell. However, I do not think Sen. Sanders can win a Democratic Primary in 20.

[ehrnst]

175. Not finding it.

Link, please.

[JNelson6563]

153. Sadly it is divisive activism.

The LAST thing we need.

[Blue_Tires]

3. I just want to know if Bernie has an honest-to-god plan

or if he's going to do his "THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A FAILURE" shtick every couple of months?

Because it's starting to get old, and as high as his profile continues to rise if he keeps pulling this shit sooner or later the buck is going to stop with HIM...

[bettyellen]

6. His relationship with the Dem party is largely a one way street - he doesn't get coalitions,

And at this point I don't think he can. He's boxed himself in.

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. Well, it depends on whether or not he thinks a russian style government is

better than our version of capitalism.

In Russia only the oligarchs get to do capitalism. They have a phony baloney single payer HC, that doesnt work by design.

I know what I think the agenda is, but I wont say.

[cwydro]

75. Yep. nt

[aikoaiko]

7. He's not letting up on the Democratic party or Trump.

And I say good for Bernie and good for us.

This is why some people, like me, like Bernie. He's not in campaign mode -- he's is, as always, agitating.

[Demsrule86]

10. I say not good for the Democratic Party...the only means to stop Trump and the KGOP.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. Seems to me we can do more than just oppose Trump... Bernie is doing just that.

[Demsrule86]

48. I find that criticizing the Democratic Party is not something we should be doing .

[GhostofFDR]

67. Why

Losing to trump pretty much screams the need to take an assessment.

[Demsrule86]

86. We lost by a less than 70,000 votes in three states...despite this perfect storm of an election...

and the constant criticism of the Democratic Party played a roll...it needs to end. And if Sen. Sanders continues, he needs to be removed from leadership. We need all hands on deck to help stop Trump...not constant criticism which is pointless and demoralizing and drives voters away.

[GhostofFDR]

103. 70,000 less isn't the anything

But consolation for losing to a joke.
Your criticism of criticism is a joke.

If you go through life without any feedback and, yes, criticism, then no wonder some are blind to addressing issues with the current state of the party.

If you simply don't want to change, then just plainly say that and don't hide behind trying to dictate everyone else fall in line and use the cover of anyone who has different ideas or opinions as being bad or their motive is to hurt progressive platforms.

This idea of a monolith is not based in reality.

What position on the issues do you think Bernie is not liberal enough? Other than getting corporate influence out of party and dictating legislative aims.

So, you are in favor of catering to the donor class?

[moda253]

110. Let's start with Women.

[Demsrule86]

92. Not the one you are talking about...criticism drives voters away.

I really believe those who want to engage in such behavior...hate the Democratic Party especially in the age of Trump... and arechasing that unicorn...known as a third party...which under our system will never happen.

[GhostofFDR]

104. If you can't face honest criticism

then you'll be doomed to losing the same as last November.

Sorry, politics isn't a safe space.

Considering the largest group of voters are now Independents, you need to attract more to win, and it's pretty obvious that there are votes to be gained from adopting a more progressive economic platform.

[Demsrule86]

142. And the entire problem with income is the Democrats? Not true and I wonder at your motives.

This is what criticism of the Democratic party has caused...Republican victories and there will be another big jump this year in income inequality thanks to the win by Trump and the GOP. All the big tax increases were under the GOP and GOP controlled Congress except for the one John Kennedy enacted. If one wants decent progressive policy vote Democratic and stop trashing the party...also vote in midterms.

[moda253]

108. God I am so sick and tired of hearing this scapegoating of

God I am so sick and tired of hearing this scapegoating of the election and all the underhanded bullshit that republicans and trump are at the very least complicit in if not criminally guilty of.


How much shit do we KNOW that the republicans and the russians engaged in? But please tell me again about how imperfect a democratic party is.... We lost because for a great many reasons the election was stolen. How many voter suppression tactics do you need to see? Interstate crosscheck, Voters purged from rolls. Russian targeted propaganda war. Uncertified touchscreens on voting machines where the manufacturer knew about it but decided to lie and say that they were certified. Security turned off on voting machines. 39 states hacked by Russian hackers.

Screw Bernie Sanders. He is part of the problem and appears more happy to join in the chorus along with Republicans in denouncing our party. Second most dangerous man in politics. I would not be surprised to see both he and Jill Stein at some point to be found out to be involved in the propaganda war.

[Trumpocalypse]

83. Constructive criticism is fine

Attacking is not. BS seems to be engaged in the latter more than the former.

[SharonClark]

106. Bernie likes to rant about people he thinks are less perfect than he is. But what is his plan?

[ehrnst]

176. By trashing the Democratic Party?

The only party that actually gets social and economic justice policies instituted?

Sounds like a plan...

[aikoaiko]

46. Bernie isn't creating the dissatisfaction with the Dem party among lefties

But he is trying to address it.

The dissatisfaction among many existed long before Bernie took the national stage.

As someone who has experienced some of that disatisfaction, Bernie's faith in the Democratic Party helps me stick around.

I don't how many others feel as I do, but I'm sure I'm not unique.

[Demsrule86]

47. I think he is creating dissatisfaction.

We need to get together and fight Trump. We are a big tent and must remain so if we are to take the majority. Sen. Sanders ideas simply won't work.

[aikoaiko]

63. Bernie speaks for me and people like me.

FWIW.

[Demsrule86]

87. Really? And his words make you want to run out and vote do they? No, they make you think the

Democratic Party is a bad party which it is not. The House passed a bill that deregulates Wall Street and essentially ends Dodd Frank...why does Sen. Sanders not discuss that? Is it not important? The party's are not the same...and I am deeply angered when anyone implies that they are.

[Nanjeanne]

107. His words inspire me to vote.

[Demsrule86]

138. I don't buy that sort of talk inspires folks to vote Democratic.

[Nanjeanne]

151. Cool. I was talking about me not you. Different strokes. Good thing not everyone feels like you.

[Demsrule86]

159. I would say based on the 2016 election and you can check out twitter that far more folks abandoned

our party due to the constant attacks.

[Nanjeanne]

163. I would say based on 2016 that there were many reasons why Hillary lost and why

some Democrats may have stayed home. But I doubt it was because of Bernie's words. Most Dems I know wound up voting for Clinton even though they supported Bernie in primary. But young new Dems who joined the party just because of Bernie may have stayed home or voted third party. Those people were never going to vote for Hillary simply because they weren't inspired to do so. Not Bernie's fault. And independents who were stupid enough to believe Trump was going to actually do anything he proposed in his populist words weren't Bernie's fault either.

Off this board, the Democrats I talk to all think it's important to figure out why we have been steadily losing for years and years across state legislatures, governorships, House, Senate, Supreme Court - and enjoy debating different ideas and analyzing mistakes.

Personally, i'd like to win elections with candidates who's policies I support. I don't see that happening if Bernie supporters - both in the Dem Party and amongst Independents - are considered the enemy.

[Demsrule86]

164. I don't doubt it...the divisions did not heal and a loss was the result and with unwise words, it

could happen again...by unwise, I mean attacks on Democrats and the Party.

[JTFrog]

168. And I don't see that happening if Bernie and his supporters consider the Democratic Party the enemy.

That is the fucking point people are trying to get across here.

Focus. There is no way to beat Trump if we don't elect more Democrats.

End. of. file.

[Nanjeanne]

170. Well as a supporter of Bernie and a Democrat I disagree. I can be against Trump and

also for policies that make people's lives better. Dems lose if they are simply against Trump. Dems win when they stand for something.

But this is a message board with people posting opinion. That's all it is. Your opinion. Mine. Opinions.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

61. Address it, or risk losin 'em.

[Demsrule86]

88. In my opinion, those who believe what I heard over the weekend are already lost.

We shall have to muddle through without such voters.

[moda253]

111. Bernie wants lock step with HIS ideas

That isn't how the Democratic party has EVER worked and it shouldn't work that way. Not going to like all democrats and not going to get along with all of them. If you supposedly support a party, and you want to use it to further your own political career, then you should join it, improve it by being a part of it. NOT sitting on the sidelines pissing all over it. Hecan't do that and convince me that he also wants the things that I want. He comes off as a person wanting to undermine the overall message. And that is counter to stopping what is going on in this country right now.

[aikoaiko]

120. lock step? Really? He's shown he can work with the party even when he doesn't get what he wants

I understand the "join or you're dead to me ultimatum", but I think Bernie has demonstrated that an ally can be critical and supportive at the same time.

He might not speak to people who are die-hard Democrats, but he does speak to me (someone who considered leaving the party during the primary) and others who never joined, but lean Democratic and might now join because Bernie says the Democratic Party is worth the difficulty of improving.

You might not like it, but he is sheepdogging lefties in a very authentic manner. Usually, sheepdogging is disingenuous, but I don't think that's happening here at all.

[moda253]

123. That sure is one way of looking at it.

In my opinion he is driving a wedge into the part and he is doing it on purpose. And I'm growing more and more concerned over what that purpose serves and who it serves.

[smirkymonkey]

143. +1000

I voted for Bernie in the primary, but I have pretty much had it with his shit. I am at the point where I really just want him to go away. He's not doing us any favors. We need some new Democratic blood out there energizing our base. Bernie's time has passed.

[JCanete]

9. that depends on what you think the biggest crisis of our time is, and whether you think Trump

is THE crisis, or a symptom of it and an example of many worse ones to come?

[Demsrule86]

11. Trump is the worst crisis or our time.

[JCanete]

19. but why did he happen? YOu think there won't be another Trump given our 4th estate? nt

[Demsrule86]

51. I think there was a perfect storm...we had a bitter primary with some not coming

back to the Democratic fold, we had Russian interference and possibly an actual hacking of the vote (which could explain some of the really odd mathematics anomalies), we had third party spoilers like Kremlin Jill and we had Trump who promised much such as trade reform and jobs (liar, liar and now liar in chief)...despite all of this, we still took the popular vote which gives me hope for the future. I really doubt that we will see another election like 2016...thank God.

[GhostofFDR]

68. Bitter primary

That's a joke. 1 opposing candidate that less than 2% of the country knew about, and had inside help.

That's laughable.

[Demsrule86]

89. You should take this post down...there was no inside help...and the primary is over.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. Everything else pales in comparison.

[Demsrule86]

50. Yes indeed. I fear for our Republic even existing if he is not stopped.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Yes, I fear we're past the tipping point... sadly.

[Demsrule86]

59. I have hope...so far the system is holding.

[bonemachine]

40. Can it be neither?

I don't think Trump is the disease, because it gives him too much credit for the forces he tapped, but does not control.

He's definitely not just a symptom, either, though.

Trump is an opportunistic infection. He is the Pneumonia that kills the cancer patient.

[JCanete]

42. I definitely advocate saving the patient. The only argument for a Trump as shaky as it is, is that

this pneumonia alerted us that there is a disease, hopefully.

[Demsrule86]

53. Pneumonia kills people even if they know they have it...hopefully we will fare better!

[leftstreet]

13. That Trump could even get elected is the real battle

All voices of opposition are probably necessary right now

If political parties (both R and D) take some heat, so be it

[Demsrule86]

20. right...who needs to win elections after all...sarcasm...Georgia 6 is next week...

I am sure hearing how shitty Democrats are really helps in that effort and winning the governorship's in Jersey and Virginia as well...sarcasm.

[Voltaire2]

14. So we should not be organizing and motivating voters for the 2018 elections?

I'm sort of confused about why this is a bad idea.

[Demsrule86]

18. Criticizing the Democratic Party motivates Republicans not Democrats.

[killbotfactory]

69. Not if you think the democratic party failed.

Trump is in power and the government controlled by republicans.

How bad does it have to get before we can criticize the democratic party?

[Demsrule86]

90. I don't blame the Democratic party...and we lost by just under 70,000 and with Russian hacks.

voters...so blame away ...but you are wrong...perfect storm...doubt it could be recreated, but those who voted for Stein, a gorilla or stayed at home are to blame. And criticizing things does not create improvement in anything.

[killbotfactory]

127. Third major election of my life where a "perfect storm" cost us the election.

It's getting pretty old. I guess we should change nothing. 4th times a charm, right?

[Demsrule86]

137. 2000 is one I assume...don't know the other election...maybe 2004...and if you consider in all

those elections...the alt-left, (don't like that term)left left ( greens ) played the spoiler role and all elections had huge consequences for progressives and our country... I wonder if you can call such folks left really...they enable the right.

[Demsrule86]

93. Nope you are right...criticism motivates those who already hate the Democratic Party

to hate the party more. How that helps with Trump I fail to understand.

[athena]

109. Haven't DUers been criticizing the Democratic Party for decades?

Wasn't this place a party ground for Hillary haters during the entire primary? In fact, I don't recall DU ever being a place for supporting Democrats until recently. It was always much more popular to attack Democrats here than to support them. It was the way to show that one was a true progressive.

Criticizing Democrats is what got us here. And the Republicans and the Russians love that so few of us realize this.

[killbotfactory]

124. Running campaigns to try and woo suburban republicans is what got us here

Gore, Kerry, and Clinton lost following that playbook. But maybe next time it will work, right? Just gotta wait for republicans to completely fuck everything up first.

[athena]

129. You seem to want to rewrite history.

Hillary Clinton ran on the most liberal platform of any Democrat in recent history. Her views were to the left of Obama, especially the second time she ran. Gore and Kerry ran a very long time ago. There was an eight-year period in the middle there, when the majority voted Democratic, and the Democratic Party moved to the left. But why bother with the facts when you can indulge in Hillary hatred, eh?

It's sad that so many people were so traumatized by the idea that a woman might become president that they still cannot let go of their hate for the first woman to run for president. History will not look at what is happening among the base of the Democratic Party today through the hate-filled blinders some people seem to have on. History will judge Hillary-haters harshly indeed, regardless of what kinds of imaginary stories they may be telling themselves to justify their irrational hatred of one of the most admirable female politicians in American history.

[killbotfactory]

154. She didn't run on the platform. Most of the ads her campaign ran were policy-free.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14848636/hillary-clinton-tv-ads

[athena]

156. She was running against a mentally unstable man.

It made sense to focus on personality in ads. The most important reason to vote for Hillary was to keep an insane man away from the Oval Office. But to too many people, it was more important to keep the Presidency male than to keep a madman out of the highest office in the land.

Hillary travelled all across the country talking about policy. I remember the passionate speeches she gave. But no one was listening. It's easy to blame Hillary for the failings of those on the left who spent the entire primary and general elections spreading false, right-wing-produced propaganda against her.

Hillary haters got exactly what they wanted: a male president. At this point, their hatred can no longer touch Hillary. Frankly, the more Hillary haters continue to hate Hillary, the better, as far as I'm concerned. In the end, hatred hurts the hater. And that is exactly the way it should be.

[stevenleser]

146. As Athena noted, what you just wrote is revisionist history. I am tired of writing this so here is a

link: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9192987

[killbotfactory]

155. Yeah yeah, I totally made it up.

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” - Chuck Schumer

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/16/people-are-very-bad-at-guessing-whether-a-new-party-leader-will-be-good/

[moda253]

112. Yeah there was nothing wrong with our elections.....

They were perfectly legit. /sarcasm

[killbotfactory]

125. That's been the case since at least when gore lost.

Same bullshit occurred with Kerry. What have we learned from that? Apparently nothing.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. You and me both.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

62. We should.

[Arazi]

15. Examples please?

Cause I see a guy whose hair is on fire about Trump, Russia. R corruption, healthcare reform, deportations, the increase in violence etc etc

[emulatorloo]

27. ...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy

[Duppers]

74. Same here.

[kstewart33]

17. Bernie is confusing.

He's all about achieving economic fairness and that's great, but achieving it requires winning races. Doing so requires working with the Democratic Party, not continually criticizing it.

No help at all, so far from Bernie. And I wouldn't bet on him making any changes.

[GhostofFDR]

70. He needs to fall in line

& work with the DNC and take direction from them? After November. . . ?

[Samantha]

122. Bernie started recruiting people to run for election

some time ago. He announced he had all the paperwork and would be thrilled to share information with anyone who wanted to enter politics and run for office. The last I heard, 30,000 people requested the packet.

The Democratic party, the Third-Way or New Dem element, have said they like things the way they are. I specifically heard Nancy Pelosi say she didn't feel like the party needed to change. Bernie does feel like the party needs to change on many high-profile, important issues. A salient example of this is a single payer program for insurance.

Bernie has also raised money for candidates. All of these things he has done has been along with his public appearances as part of the leadership of the DNC. Strategically speaking, I feel some Dems wanted to try to bring back into the fold the more liberal wing and encourage unity.

Sam

[Trial_By_Fire]

21. He is not a Democrat - why do you even give a damn?

Bashing Sanders is exactly what Putin wants.

Sanders represents power to the people and making the 99% healthy and prosperous.

When people bash Sanders - you are playing into the hands of Russia.

Way to go...

[kentuck]

22. I would not go that far...

In fact, I would say he is a better Democrat than many that post on DU. I just happen to think he should be directing more attention to the crisis at hand. This is not the time to debate "within" the Party. The challenge with Donald Trump and the Republicans is much more serious than Bernie seems to think, imo.

[Trial_By_Fire]

32. We Dems can do more than one thing at a time...

[Demsrule86]

55. I doubt it...constant criticism by influential leaders is not going to help Democrats...only

Republicans and Trump.

[emulatorloo]

23. How do you know Putin doesn't want Bernie claiming Dems are an "abject failure"?

As Bernie did in his speech at The People's Summit?

Hard to know what Putin wants other than chaos.

[SaschaHM]

24. Because this is 4th dimensional chess wherein...

Bernie's bashing of Democrats is somehow going to get more of his followers to vote for Democrats.

[kentuck]

26. United we stand...

...divided we fall.

[Trial_By_Fire]

30. Ever hear the term 'constructive criticism'?

[hrmjustin]

33. let me know when he gives some.

[emulatorloo]

37. A lot of folks may see it as 'Destructive Criticism.' All I know is Republicans are

enjoying the hell out of it.

I'm on the borderline right now. Bernie Primary supporter here and I think he needs to moderate his rhetoric. Add some more positive words and use less negatively loaded terms. You can constructively criticize without using such words with such heavily negative connotations. The tone is too damn harsh.

[Trial_By_Fire]

41. What Sanders is saying is spot on...

The proof is that Dems are losing elections all over the country.

The people want progressive policies and the Dem Party better start to understand that.

[emulatorloo]

43. Bernie's stable of candidates are losing elections as well.

He doesn't have the magic formula. Nor does he have all the answers.

He is a good man. As a man he is a human like the rest of us, and humans are fallible.

Dem party needs to shape up but we need to be fact based.

Hurling terms of abuse like "abject failure" at lifelong liberals is not the way forward.

[Demsrule86]

56. Haha...tell that to Kansas or Nebraska...

You think everyone believes as you do but they don't.

[moda253]

114. When we don't have programs targeted at keeping our voters from voting

Then you can start in with that. as of right now we have systems in place that keep our voters from casting a ballot. That is where the anger needs to be. Right now. That is the only thing that matters. Until that is fixed, pissing and moaning about difference of policy is inconsequential.

Bernie Sanders of all people should be all about that. He needs to direct his attention to THAT.

[Trial_By_Fire]

115. Where are all the 'Democrats' talking about election fraud? That's right they don't....

Sanders does talk about election fraud. Don't let facts get in
the way of your narrative, thou.

[moda253]

116. Ummm you want me to do the research for you that you say doesn't exist?

How intellectually lazy are you? You can make a statement without any facts and then charge me with not letting the facts get in the way? Bring your OWN facts when YOU make a statement.

[Trial_By_Fire]

119. Election fraud has been occurring since the mid-1990s.

All forms of election fraud, including voter suppression, has been going on for
over 20 years. My 'intellect' tells me, by the fact that election fraud is still
going on, that the Dems do not take election fraud seriously.

How about those facts...

[moda253]

118. I mean the DNC has created a commission to address it

and combat Trumps new anti voting initiative backed by Interstate Crosscheck founder Kobach....

But by all means Don't let the facts get in your way. Just keep trashing the Democratic party and feel the bern.

[stevenleser]

147. Revisionist history

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9192987

[Trial_By_Fire]

149. Wrong...

People need to start operating in the 21st century.

People want progressive policies - certainly not DLC corporate policies...

[stevenleser]

150. You have no evidence for your position, I have evidence for mine. End of story. nt

[Trial_By_Fire]

152. Your blinders will not help the party...

Unfortunately, the popular vote does not win the presidency.

And as I said before, times are different now than in the 1990s. We
are in the minority with State governments.

Time for people to start being more progressive - that's how we will win elections.

[Chevy]

135. Which none of you tolerate

when it comes to Sanders.

[Eliot Rosewater]

34. This is absurd. It is so clear what is going on.

The LAST thing you do now, if you want to get rid of Trump and the like, the VERY LAST THING you do is attack the D party like Bernie is doing everyday.

i still dont know if I am allowed to criticize him here or not, he is NOT a democrat, so I just dont know

I do know there is a contingent here who want people like me banned, people like me who are outspoken about Bernie and a few others.

[Demsrule86]

57. We risk a hide if we criticize him as he in TOS.

[Eliot Rosewater]

98. So he is considered a Democrat?

[Demsrule86]

100. A person who is aligned with Democrats...look at TOS.

[JTFrog]

141. And that is the freakin truth right there.

Right back to where we were a year ago.

[Demsrule86]

160. I think it is better than last year because the jury system has improved.

[JTFrog]

161. I don't think so.

How has it improved? Nothing has changed, it's the exact same system. It's just as easily gamed as ever.

There was anticipation of change via rule changes, but that never really materialized. If the rules aren't enforced equally, it doesn't matter what the rules are. Mob rule has never been a good solution to anything.

Of course that is just my opinion. By using the site, I've obviously agreed to the terms. But those weren't the terms when I originally joined this discussion forum.

[Demsrule86]

165. You have appeals...I was stalked recently and appealed.

[JTFrog]

166. Not impressed. nt

[Demsrule86]

169. Nothing is ever perfect. I would say as annoying as some of what a certain person says is, it would

hurt our election efforts if an all out war ensued on this site, other site or in general and he was trashed. It would not help with the healing of the Democratic Party...so I get the rules. It is undeniable that some revere him...so what is the point of allowing people to criticize him? I think once we start winning elections much of this will go away...it is fear based...the notion that can't we win another election without a massive change in our party underlies these fevered discussions. Northam won yesterday among traditional Democrats; that helps. I think we can win with paper ballots and a strong Democratic message...doesn't hurt that Trump is an asshat also. We can welcome all to our party, but we must never change who we are...a diverse big tent party.

[hrmjustin]

28. I think not.

[Chevy]

134. lol lol lol

Good god you actually typed that. lol

[mopinko]

25. i wouldnt care what he does or says, except for the fact

that the dnc gave him a leadership position. he was tasked w, and agreed to, bring his voters into the fold.
so how does hammering the party help that?

i think his lens of "millionaires and billionaires" doesnt really lend a clear picture of every issue. but he seems to think it does.
i like him a lot, i supported his candidacy, but i got tired of the fact that he gave basically the exact same speech, regardless of the forum or the issue of the day. including the convention.

preaching to blm that economic justice would bring about racial justice, easy peazy, was where i got off the bus.

[FloridaBlues]

44. He seems to be causing more divisions than bringing together

The Democratic Party. Can't seem to get out of his stump speech which has solid points but now isn't the time to focus on his agenda.
We need all hands on deck as a party to win

[Tarheel_Dem]

45. If his handpicked candidates were winning races nationwide, I might give him a listen, but since....

that's not the case, I have to scratch my head as to why the DNC thought putting him front & center was a good idea. He's just as divisive & polarizing now as he ever was.

[GhostofFDR]

71. Did your

Handpicked candidates win in November?

[Cha]

82. The point is.. BS' didn't. The one who's always

criticizing the Democratic Party.

[Tarheel_Dem]

132. Probably. We may never know, thanks to the hammer & sickle brigade.

[FloridaBlues]

91. Agree Tarheel

[Duppers]

64. I googled Bernie news

And found that's he busy on all fronts.

But I more or less agree, our house is on fire and manning the buckets is a priority for now.

[GhostofFDR]

72. Right, I mean. . .

NOBODY is covering or focusing on Trump or Russia.

If only the media would do a few stories. . .

[Duppers]

73. Ouch.

I said he was busy on all fronts, did I not?

- long-time Bernie supporter here

[DeminPennswoods]

78. Wake me up when

Bernie either decides to join the Democratic party by changing his party registration and being constructive

- or -

when a candidate he's backed for federal office wins an election.

Otherwise

[Cha]

81. Good.. you've noticed. Mahalo, kentuck

[retrowire]

95. Bernie is countering Trump's bluster.

Bernie is nicknamed the bulldog for a reason.

I consider anyone capable of overshadowing and shouting down Trump a NECESSITY.

[Chevy]

136. Bulldog? That must

be at the secret meetings only.

[judesedit]

96. Bernie is still tearing people apart. We need "stronger together" cheerleaders to encourage us

to do just that. Stand together. Right now the main thing is to get rid of the GOP and Drumpf whatever way possible. He could help with that but doesn't seem to want to. I don't get him and his choice of wording. The old dems are still better than any rethugs.

[JTFrog]

99. It's the only way he can keep himself in the news.

If he isn't beating up Democrats, he doesn't get as much attention.

The problem is that while that attention may be helping him, it's becoming clear that it is damaging to the party.

[The_Casual_Observer]

101. Bernie spends most of his time knocking the Dems, like Nero fiddling.

He's just another Nader kind of guy that hates everybody but himself.

[kentuck]

102. Bernie might be more effective if he changed his party registration to Democratic?

He would not have to change his progressive message.

[loyalsister]

113. Fair point

I have thought a lot about how Kerry quietly went back to work, Bill Bradley, Al Gore, Michael Dukakis all moved on, out of the spotlight. It seems like that was a classy way to make room for new ideas, new rhetoric, and new politicians.

At the same time, we should also be mindful of something I have heard a lot. Voters are frustrated that politicians only speak out about things that matter to them when they're running for election or reelection.

[kentuck]

117. Good point.

But, I think Bernie may criticize the Democratic Party a little more than necessary?

He appears to be going after Democratic voters to join him in the Peoples Party? That's understandable if his plan is to build a new Progressive Party. But, in my opinion, he understands that he cannot build his Party without Democratic, progressive voters.

Otherwise, why would he not join the Democratic Party? Will he ever be as popular in a Peoples Party as he has been in the Democratic Party? I think he should give it serious consideration. Things do not always happen as we plan.

[Eko]

121. Te Democratic party is a team,

Its one thing to try and help shape the party with new ideas and ways and another thing to go around saying how bad the team is and that the team would win if only they followed your ideas.

[beachbum bob]

126. let it rest, we have more important issues at stake

[Doremus]

140. You are correct and the sooner we collectively realize it the better. nt

[kentuck]

157. Perhaps you are correct?

Maybe it is time to circle the wagons and take in all the friends we can gather and do not shun or discard anyone because of some political disagreement and do not criticize each other as if we were political enemies?

[Chevy]

133. I would count 3 actually

1)Tad Devine
2)Taxes
3)His surrogates and rose petal followers on Twitter

4)Didn't mention the the University thingy but that probably ties into taxes question.

[kentuck]

162. It's not that big of a problem.

Nobody's perfect.

[SethH]

177. he's campaigning against the GOP health bill

what could possibly be wrong with that?