Yesterday, my wife said something I'd never thought she would say:

[MineralMan]

"You know, maybe we should start thinking about moving out of the country?"

She's still a few years from Social Security age, and my parents are still around at age 92, so the time is not right for this possibility. However, if things don't start turning around in 2018, we may well start thinking about where we might go as expatriates. There are a number of possibilities, of course, so perhaps I'll start looking at annual living costs, etc. for some of them.

Both my wife and I speak conversational French, and I'm OK in Spanish and Russian. Russian's right out, although there are a few former Soviet bloc nations that are possibilities, and where Russian is still commonly spoken. Spanish seems more useful, though, and there are a number of countries where US expatriates live in sizable numbers.

Still, I'd like to stay right here, so could we all please work together to reverse this ugly trend, starting right now? That'd be great.

[Madam45for2923]

1. Canada or Mexico? or further?

[MineralMan]

3. Further. Central America or

South America, perhaps. Eastern Europe is also an option.

[GBizzle]

23. Why Eastern Europe, if you don't mind my asking?

It seems like that's ground zero for Putin's aggression - Ukraine and the Baltics are definitely being threatened, aren't you trying to move away from his influence?

[jberryhill]

57. Costa Rica is worth a look

Cheaper Belize

[pangaia]

2. Many places you could live with English only as well

Netherlands, Norway, Finland, Sweden,....
......Canada, NZ, Aus, UK- lol...

[MineralMan]

4. Finances will be the largest issue, really.

[pangaia]

5. Me too..

I am 73, retired, townhouse (cheapest thing I could find and afford) is paid for..

But I would never anywhere find living quarters as cheap as I have now...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

6. I'm with her! I'm thinking of moving to Canada...

though I think Bernie will fix things in 2020. Still holding out hope.

[Bonx]

9. I'm liking Canada too. Can't be too hard for a good progressive to emigrate

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Fortunately, I have a lot of relatives there, which would make the transition much easier.

[WinkyDink]

39. I think it is, to Canada.

[EllieBC]

51. It is actually not easy.

I'm a permanent resident of Canada. You can't just show up. You need a sponsor, be that a spouse or another relative or an employer. Or you need to have money. And you can't be too old or in poor health. And while your paperwork is in process, which can take a good year or more, you cannot work or get healthcare or pretty much do anything.

Most countries do not have an open door.

[musette_sf]

63. Yep. It isn't easy.

I'm too old for Canada to take me. My niece recently married a Canadian, and I keep urging them to move there.

[WinkyDink]

43. Bernie?! LOL!

[musette_sf]

46. + 1

[musette_sf]

45. Democratic Party needs to run a Democrat

in 2020.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Bernie ran as a Democrat.... I'm sure he gladly would again.

[musette_sf]

62. Sen Sanders did not "run as a Democrat".

He ran in the Democratic primary, and the Party graciously welcomed him to do so. But he did not "run as a Democrat", nor is he a Democrat.

I will support Democrats ONLY in the 2020 Democratic primary. I now think Democrats ONLY should be running in the Democratic primaries. Members of other parties, or of no parties, with Presidential aspirations, can start their own parties, and run their own primaries.

I was a longtime supporter and advocate of Sen Sanders, and he disappointed me as a candidate and as a person in the 2016 electoral cycle. His recent advocacy for forced-birther Mello in Nebraska was the last straw for me. The sacred civil, human and Constitutional rights of HALF OF AMERICA are NOT a "wedge issue".

https://rewire.news/article/2017/04/26/setting-record-straight-elevation-heath-mello-tells-us-democratic-party/

Oh, and PS, Sen Sanders never released HIS taxes, either.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. We should look forward, not backward. Goin into 2020, Bernie is the most popular candidate we have.

It would be smart to embrace him... even if he chooses not to run for president again.

[musette_sf]

66. Yes, I look forward

to a Democrat as the candidate for the Democratic Party in 2020.

It would be smart to actually read the posts you are replying to... since I made it clear that I had already "embraced" Sen Sanders for many years prior to the 2016 electoral cycle, and prior to his 2017 assertions that women's sacred rights are negotiable.

And Sec'y Clinton was a far more popular candidate among Democrats.

This is Democratic Underground, a support network for Democrats and Democratic candidates.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

67. I guess we'll soon find out.

[jehop61]

7. Tried moving to Mexico

several years before drugs were a big problem. Came back after four years. Despite government problems, there IS nothing like your own country. Cultural differences and separation from friends and family are strong arguments that brought us back. We choose to live here and remain part of the resistance that brings the real USA back to what it once was. There are more of us than there are of them. The young see how bad current policies are, and will act accordingly. No place is perfect, so stick around and fight. We all need you.

[LeftInTX]

21. I've always wondered how this has turned out

Seniors move there because it is cheap, but I rely on my American doctor who has known me for years.

Also no ADA brings concerns with some of the housing. Steep stairs etc.

[jehop61]

50. Medicine is more primitive there

Not nearly as advanced as here, generally. i.e, When you feel tummy problems, you need to bring a stool sample to a lab, they check it out and you take that to your dr. No RXs though, all over the counter meds. You keep your own records with you and no real follow up. Stairs are everywhere with uneven sidewalks as well. A lovely dream with wonderful people, but there's no place like home.

[FM123]

8. Your wife is on to something....

I am noticing more and more articles about Americans wishing to leave the U.S. and live abroad. But before you go, help us fight the good fight and reverse the "ugly trend" - it's going to take more than a village to do so.

[BlueCaliDem]

10. I hope you don't leave and allow RWers to take total control of this country.

Remember, as the United States goes, so goes the world. Like it or not, there's no running from the disasters Republicans create in our country. Look at the crash of the finance industry - it was felt all across the globe.

Best to stay and keep voting Democratic Party in ALL elections, and to keep the Koch Bros, the Mercers, the Adelsons, and their bribed lackeys, the Republicans, from taking over our country and dominating global economies and our environment to benefit themselves.

[MineralMan]

11. See, I can't do it alone. That's why I'm asking everyone to

work together to reverse this path we're on. By myself, I'm powerless. Together, we can do it, though, but we'll have to stop arguing among ourselves.

[awesomerwb1]

36. "Stop arguing among ourselves"

Yes, absolutely! I cringe every time I see a thread with "Bernie said this...." "Hillary said this...." "Biden criticized xxxxx..."

I'm honestly sick of it. We need a grown up to step up and get the kids in a room so they can start behaving like adults and put country ahead of themselves. (I'm gonna get some flak from this I think).

Who that grown man 'uniter' could be, I don't know.

[OliverQ]

13. My family wants to leave to

Unfortunately unless you're quite wealthy or in a very high demand career, your chances of moving to another 1st world country are about zero.

[Orsino]

14. You only owe so much loyalty to a nation so determined to demean/sicken/pauper/kill you.

When there's a fire, reach for a fire extinguisher. When that fails, and the house is ablaze, it may be time to head outside.

[nini]

15. Portugal

I was planning on going in 2 years when I retire but I'm afraid to wait too long.

Unbelievable we have to think about this.

[BSdetect]

16. Moving countries can be a real nightmare.

First you need approval.

Paperwork can be endless.

Taxes can be very tricky - The US IRS will expect you your return each year.

Health insurance

Health

Banks and credit.

There are many snags that will pop up after you move.

Worth looking for any discussion forums to see what people have done etc

[angrychair]

17. I made the decision to leave

I know many say "stay and fight" and "resistance" and so on but the thing is that I'm not leaving my country, my country left me. Actually, it was never here in the first place. It was an ideal never fully realized. The vision of our Founding Fathers that barely got past the "founding" stage.

I'm a Democrat, an "environmentalist for humans", an atheist, a historian and a futurist. I sometimes think I don't belong here much less in a country that, I know, that no matter how hard I try, is more likely to believe in angels than quantum physics. That is more likely to watch Bachelor than vote. That is more likely to think The Easter Bunny is real than climate change. Ignorance is praised and intelligence is vilified. I'm done. I could go for days.

This nation is on the path to devolve into a theocracy, it's been a paper thin wall for decades, God is mentioned in everything from our money, meetings and classrooms everyday. Even my phone I'm typing this on automatically capitalizes the word God (did it again). I encounter atheists that are afraid to say they are atheists ("im semi-atheist" is like saying "I'm semi-pregnant"...you are or you are not. At best you are an agnostic.)
I have no desire to bow to anyone's sky fairies or to beg some nimbus being to make me rich or famous or healthy. You know what should get us those things? Education, science and hard work. Here in the US, for every hundred statues related to religion or war (or both) there might be one to a scientist or author or engineer. And I mean "might". It's sad to think that kids grow thinking that the only way to get a statue in a town square is to kill someone or be killed.

Lastly, yes, no country is perfect. The problem is that there are more countries that are closer to where we should be than where America is now or has been or is likely to be in the near future.
Im still working out the how and when but my mind is already decided on the why.

[Boomerproud]

25. I understand passioniate feelings about staying or leaving.

Every day I feel more and more like an outsider in my own country. I do not have a solution. You are correct when you say "it was never here in the first place." So true.

[InformedElitist]

18. I hear you

I'm tempted to leave also - maybe teaching ESL somewhere for at least a few years. I'd like to wait at least a little longer to see whether/how Putin and Kim further destabilize the world. I think a lot could ride on the remaining key elections in Europe.

With that said, my family ties in the US are too strong that I doubt I'll ever make such a move. I just feel like a sitting duck knowing that I'm going to spend the remaining half of my life in a former superpower that's so obviously in decline and already behind most of the civilized world.

[Stuart G]

19. We are all angry..Yes we need to work together.

That will not be easy. There are some people who are so full of hate, that they won't work with us.

[Vinca]

20. I'd love to move to Great Britain, but we couldn't afford to do it.

[HipChick]

22. I've moved twice now..

due to career moves, and ended up adopted 2 other countries as home....However, I will say, there is still no place like home....no bad how things get... YMMV

[talldarkhandsome]

24. Belize!!! That's where it's at!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

26. I would like to disavow myself from this country. Start calling myself "Dutch-American"

It does not represent me.

[luvMIdog]

27. I'm staying and I don't want my ashes spread. I want my nasty rotting corpse dropped in front of GOP

headquarters . Smell that you lousy batsards!

[avebury]

28. I have heard that Costa Rica is pretty

affordable for a place to retire. That is where I am considering as a possible retirement place.


Mexico and several of the Central and South American countries are working really heard to attract American retirees. It is viewed as a growth industry for them.

[MineralMan]

31. Yes, Costa Rica, Belize and some others are

looking for US expatriates and retirees.

[panader0]

35. Nicaragua- they rejected the Climate accords for not being good enough.

It's just as beautiful as Costa Rica but much cheaper.
I visited Costa Rica in September and it was more expensive than I thought
it would be.

[WinkyDink]

42. Humidity.

[kimbutgar]

29. I have thought the same thing

I inherited my Mothers house and always thought I would convert it into a duplex. One unit pays the loan note and the other monthly income. But now I am thinking of selling and getting the cash and moving out of the country. It's a fantasy but everyday I realize chump will be our scrotus for the next 4 years because the rethugs are complicit traitors who are in cahoots with Russia like chump. Party over country for those traitors. And they claim to be the true patriots while they sold out country for cash campaign funds to take control of the government. A coup by Russia happened in November 2016. The rethug superpacs have a lot of Russian money. I bet even Handel is getting rethug money.

[LisaM]

30. If people could somehow move to red states (which are like another country)

we could turn things around here. But it probably takes a lot of nerve to move somewhere like Wyoming or South Dakota.

[Luciferous]

32. My husband has dual citizenship and works for

a large corporation with locations in many countries- we have also discussed moving out of the country, especially now that our oldest is going to college.

[drray23]

33. if you want to stay close to the US

you could try canada but it may be hard to get visas there or even one of the french islands in the carribean. Just a couple hours flight.

[TeamPooka]

34. Come to California. We're going to run it like another country for a while.

[democratisphere]

37. Sit tight.

This will all be over with soon.

[MineralMan]

38. Yes, there is that. This may resolve itself.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Those who survive will be those who flee

The right wing is extremely violent and well-armed, and they've completely infiltrated the military and police apparatus, in addition to having capable militias and inchoate death squads.

[WinkyDink]

41. Not every US govt benefit follows; something to research.

[beaglelover]

44. We've thought about it too, but always come back to health care concerns.

Our healthcare system may suck from a cost standpoint, but not many countries can match it. And if you move to a country with socialized medicine I think there are all sorts of barriers in place to prevent you from accessing their healthcare system since you have not paid into it. Anyway, we're still looking into it. Spain would be very high on the list......

[crosinski]

61. I think we're ranked about 40th now, so you could maybe do better.

Yep, even South American counties rank above us in health care cost AND quality now, and it doesn't cost very much to buy into their healthcare either ... usually under $200 a month. The care there is reported to be world class, if you stick to the larger cities.

I researched this subject for a while, but decided it was just a mental exercise in what-if-ism. We both have roots here that go back centuries so, by god, we're stickin'.

[okieinpain]

47. +1 n/t.

[Bayard]

48. I have a friend that just returned from New Zealand

Had many funny stories to tell. But, he said everyone is incredibly nice to Americans there, bare feet are accepted attire everywhere, and even the most expensive restaurant has its resident dog that is allowed to wander around and beg from patrons. Besides, its beautiful.

Sounds like my kind of place.

[mnhtnbb]

49. I am toying with the idea of France.

I know another DU'er --we met in Strasbourg when we were both there in April--who is thinking of retiring in France.

We visited a friend in Lyon who has American friends who retired to Lyon several years ago.

There are usually expat groups to be found in numerous countries.

International Living is a good resource for many of the countries that are popular places for Americans to retire.

https://internationalliving.com/

[ecstatic]

52. If the GOP "sweeps" the elections next year,

It's time to go. All semblance of democracy would be gone at that point.

[still_one]

53. Unless you have relatives or a job in a European country, while you can move, you will have issues

Getting NHS coverage. Some countries you will also need to demonstrate self-sufficiency

[JI7]

54. if i had time and money i would like to experience living in different places

[samnsara]

55. finland!! they dont even have marriage...

...well its uncommon

[guillaumeb]

56. There is one country you might wish to consider.

It is a bit farther north, with very similar weather. The healthcare system is far better and the housing market is strong. English is spoken by most, but French is spoken by many.

[Mr. Ected]

59. I understand Panama is a wonderful expat destination

Brush up on your Spanish (I keep telling myself to do the same thing).

[CK_John]

60. IMO, take in to consideration the ocean rise , Look for 4000ft above sea level.

[cwydro]

64. Well, I have a dual nationality as first generation American born to Brit parents.

I've always had it in the back of my head, but it's moved to the forefront now.

My sister and I both have British passports, and we're both thinking the same thing.

Our parents have passed, mom very recently. All our family is over there.

We have a lot of land here...hard decisions to be made.

[arthritisR_US]

68. Mauritius, although many there speak a Creole French. nt