Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

underpants

(182,830 posts)
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:07 PM May 2017

Something's happening here... (media upheaval)

So Fox dropped like a rock to third behind MSNBC and CNN. The loss of Ailes and O'Reilly were devastating.

iHeart radio is, by all accounts, going to be lucky to make it to the end of the year.

The New York Times and The Washington Post appear to be in an all out "scoop"/BREAKING NEWS War and it looks like McClatchy is getting into the fertile hunting grounds of the Trump scandalS too.

Frankly, to me, all of the media holds a majority of the blame for the clustertrump getting in office. TV "news" really sells drama and the almighty dollar still rules but this has been nice to see.

66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Something's happening here... (media upheaval) (Original Post) underpants May 2017 OP
I'd love to see them redeem themselves annabanana May 2017 #1
Me too get the red out May 2017 #9
and in their own best interest as well. world wide wally May 2017 #13
It's amazing what being treated like shit will do for you. GoCubsGo May 2017 #19
They got it &they are trying...NYT, WaPo. It was mostly TV that relentlessly attacked Hillary. Alice11111 May 2017 #42
I'd like you to back that accusation up, especially with regard to Maddow ProfessorPlum May 2017 #58
Rachel Maddow. I record and watch her frequently. Alice11111 May 2017 #66
frankly i think there's a big commercial interest in a liberal network unblock May 2017 #2
Apparently both MSNBC and CNN are instead trying to Hortensis May 2017 #8
Check this out, about exactly how Fox does it: Amaryllis May 2017 #24
Yup Carlos Maza is great american_ideals May 2017 #35
Thanks, Amaryllis. I really like Vox and that Hortensis May 2017 #52
We knew all that already but to see it laid out so clearly in steps was very useful. I used to Amaryllis May 2017 #60
Likely they would. But if it didn't offend them overmuch, Hortensis May 2017 #65
Can you elaborate on Tur? I thought she was ok. Fantastic Anarchist May 2017 #64
wish you were right, but few businesses seem to want to advertise on rurallib May 2017 #16
pretty accurate assessment, sadly. unblock May 2017 #20
We need a law that states if you wanna run a Newsroom, Volaris May 2017 #27
You don't want to have ME regulating broadcasting in the USA. mwooldri May 2017 #38
Totally agree american_ideals May 2017 #36
While I do not disagree about NPR GulfCoast66 May 2017 #57
Advertisers want gullible consumers ThoughtCriminal May 2017 #34
Absolutely! Alice11111 May 2017 #43
Don't think they have "come around". They are still following the drama... Binkie The Clown May 2017 #3
Broadcast "news" is utterly useless Warpy May 2017 #4
I recently tried to watch them again. progressoid May 2017 #12
The hospital had very limited fare when I was in 2 years ago Warpy May 2017 #14
Yeah, that would not help the BP! progressoid May 2017 #18
Oh god, the CNN panels were awful, torture. Kayleigh made me give up on CNN. Alice11111 May 2017 #44
Couldn't agree more. Turn it off. Buy a real newspaper. Voltaire2 May 2017 #51
In my opinion genxlib May 2017 #5
Yep, Kurt Eichenwald did enough work for at least 3 papers. justiceischeap May 2017 #10
"idiot box" Ligyron May 2017 #15
That's what my Mom called it too! BumRushDaShow May 2017 #29
Maybe Fox's audience is dying off? Old, stressed, and angry is no way to behave. FSogol May 2017 #6
That's what I think DeminPennswoods May 2017 #22
Check this out: Amaryllis May 2017 #25
Cool. Thanks. underpants May 2017 #28
Fox propaganda playbook. Not your grandfather's "News". oasis May 2017 #40
That's good. Thks Alice11111 May 2017 #46
I think the light of truth when presented like it has been lately on CNN and MSNBC, opens minds. The Wielding Truth May 2017 #41
Fox News was a virus filled cell that burst... tandem5 May 2017 #7
See post #25, above yours. Amaryllis May 2017 #26
Well Trump did declare war on the media lunatica May 2017 #11
This is how they make money BamaRefugee May 2017 #17
It's all slime alfredo May 2017 #21
Any time media make false horse race / controversy, call them out for TRUMPING THEMSELVES. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2017 #23
I don't think you can blame legitimate media for Trump getting elected. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #30
I disagree underpants May 2017 #31
That is totally right. Chemisse May 2017 #32
:-) underpants May 2017 #33
CNN still normalizes him Generic Brad May 2017 #37
That's true -- but the PRINT media did a better job, pnwmom May 2017 #45
I think it was Billions of free airtime. A million of TV time is an ad. Anyway, I agree. It was Alice11111 May 2017 #47
Yes it was Billions underpants May 2017 #55
One example- George Steph of ABC let Trump call in almost every morning for fluff interviews wishstar May 2017 #50
Fox and Friends Monday mornings underpants May 2017 #56
Not 2 million not fooled May 2017 #59
Yes Billion underpants May 2017 #63
Totally agree - 50-60% could be a low estimate MrPurple May 2017 #61
I'm lost GatorDem82 May 2017 #39
It used to be ClearChannel, remember them? MrScorpio May 2017 #48
Baine Capital bought them in 2008. So yeah that'll go well. underpants May 2017 #53
$1B in debt. Bought by Baine Capital in 2008. underpants May 2017 #54
Great news.. but, what the hell is msnbc Cha May 2017 #49
I disagree that "all of the media holds a majority of the blame for the clustertrump getting in Nitram May 2017 #62

world wide wally

(21,744 posts)
13. and in their own best interest as well.
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:42 PM
May 2017

If they continue to play dumb to Trumps wanting to eliminate the free press, they won't be able to make a living when state run media takes over.

GoCubsGo

(32,086 posts)
19. It's amazing what being treated like shit will do for you.
Tue May 23, 2017, 05:18 PM
May 2017

Comrade Trump basically declared the media enemies of the people. They no longer have any reasons to kow-tow to him.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
42. They got it &they are trying...NYT, WaPo. It was mostly TV that relentlessly attacked Hillary.
Wed May 24, 2017, 01:42 AM
May 2017

Remember Matt Laer. Maddow and Matthews did, until it was possible she could lose. They all did.
The Guardian was pretty consistent and supportive all along...I think after Brexit they knew what propaganda could do.

Now, we are in a fight for our democracy. Without NYT& Washington Post, these stories wouldn't be out.
Buzz Feed published the dossier.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
66. Rachel Maddow. I record and watch her frequently.
Wed May 24, 2017, 07:08 PM
May 2017

She is the best journalist on TV now, plus she has integrity. (In her early years, sometimes she would leave out some of the facts, and many people boycotted her, including me, but she has grown & she is straight up now, IMO.) However, though she was not as intense as some, earlier on, even in the general election, she did attack or give a podium for others to attack Hillary. For example, she gave KellyAnne Conway an entire hour, very friendly, with almost no push back, to boast about DT and attack Hillary.

She pulled back more quickly than some with her negative reporting. (I won't even go in to or criticize her for the primaries, but a lot of damage was done then, so much that many times, I couldn't even watch her, and I like Bernie.)

I am not going to focus on her, because she was the least of those on TV that degraded Hillary, while giving DT free reign. Also, once she got it, that the media were going to cause DT to be elected (it was one of many factors), she rolled up her sleeves and went to work. ..but it could have been earlier. In the last several weeks before the election, she was 100pc on top of everything.

On election night, I was watching Maddow, Matthews & others report, as the telling results were coming in. They were fighting back tears, as most of us were. I and others were thinking and saying, but you did your part, especially Matthews. I believe RM would even say that.

Matthews was much worse and he went on for longer into the general election, often attaking Hillary. I'm not saying Hillary did everything right, but it was about ratings and giving audiences red meat, IMO. In the hour immediately before one of the debates (I think it was the second one?), he gave KellyAnne a full hour, in which he glowed at everything she said, to set up the debate by degrading Hillary and promoting DT.

CNN was even worse, with their awful panels. The false Equivalency of giving someone like Kayleigh Repub airhead equal time to someone like David Gergan or Paul Begala, who have had years of experience, was
disgusting . This has been discussed quite a bit in the media, on both CNN & MSNBC.

I got and still do get most of my news from print...NYT, Washington Post, New Yorker, and others. However, most of America gets their news from TV. The false equivalency of the TV media, pretty much all of it, of giving equal time and criticism to Hillary and DT was a factor that caused a lot of middle America to not support Hillary, either by not voting or voting for a 3rd party or DT.
With DT, there were so many breaking scandles that the media could hardly keep up with them, but for Hillary's time, it was the emails, the emails.

unblock

(52,253 posts)
2. frankly i think there's a big commercial interest in a liberal network
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:12 PM
May 2017

or at least an anti-trump network.

there might be something to the idea that the "out" party is going to be the source of more enthusiastic consumers of news as they seek consolation, righteous anger, scandal, etc.

in any event, i think our time has come, i think msnbc's timing in tilting to the right now is horrendous from a purely commercial point of view.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
8. Apparently both MSNBC and CNN are instead trying to
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:27 PM
May 2017

draw Fox viewers. Problem is, Fox viewers are so invested in hard-core lies that they cannot be wooed with honest information. Truth has to be abandoned to satisfy them and build the ratings numbers.

I no longer watch either except for Rachel and O'Donnell, but just this morning on my way past I saw Fox alpha bitch Allison Camerota and WaPo's offering to the right, Chris Cillizza, serving up Fox-grade right-wing spin together on CNN. And, of course, Katie Tur turned out to be a ruthless Fox-grade attacker also.

Amaryllis

(9,524 posts)
60. We knew all that already but to see it laid out so clearly in steps was very useful. I used to
Wed May 24, 2017, 12:47 PM
May 2017

teach middle school kids advertising techniques (9 out of 10 doctors say...etc.) and it is very useful to be able to identify specifics when watching manipulation techniques. Thinking of sending to a few friends and relatives who are Fox watchers, but they would most likely think it is just propaganda.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
65. Likely they would. But if it didn't offend them overmuch,
Wed May 24, 2017, 03:11 PM
May 2017

what'd be to lose? Otoh, I noticed someone here on DU badmouthing Vox for an article on fake news, so likely foxers tossed it in the MSM trash bin as soon as it was created.

I signed up for a MOOC once on understanding how political arguments are framed and techniques for countering and prevailing. The various techniques illustrated were very interesting, but like any skill would need a lot of practice to get competent at.

rurallib

(62,423 posts)
16. wish you were right, but few businesses seem to want to advertise on
Tue May 23, 2017, 05:13 PM
May 2017

what little liberal media there is.

Can't run an outlet without money and the left community is now trying to keep many projects and candidates afloat with small contributions.

Our portion of the media landscape looks like this AFAIK:
- 3 hours a night on MSNBC - Hayes, Maddow and O'Donnell
- Free speech TV which is totally supported by contributors (we give to them)
- shows like Thom Hartmann, Steph Miller and Democracy Now are syndicated but the markets for them are small.

- Radio: Pacifica is like a network unto itself. To be honest I don't know a lot about them other than most are local and some low power. Democracy Now is their most notable program.
- Commercial radio: There are a few scattered around the country. KTNF in Minneapolis and WCPT in Chicago are the ones I am aware of. Compare that to the hundreds that carry Limbaugh and his ilk.
- Sirius has two or three liberal stations. That's about it.
- If you've listened to NPR lately, I am sure you wouldn't include it in the list.

- Newspapers? No really liberal newspapers I am aware of. I'd love to be enlightened. There are few independents any more. Most are owned by one of the corporates such as Gannet, Tribune or Lee.

- right now we have a solid presence on the internet, but the FCC is looking to kill that in a couple of months. Well, not kill but make it harder to get to.

There is probably a a hunger for real news and differing opinions, but with limited bandwidth for TV and radio and with most of that owned by the right wing, I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope. With the FCC trying to limit opportunity on the internet expect that to dry up also.

Sorry if I am such a Debbie Downer. Maybe I really went off on a rant that has little to do with your post.
This is what frustrates me so. In a truly open market we could compete, but the right has totally stacked the deck in their favor.

unblock

(52,253 posts)
20. pretty accurate assessment, sadly.
Tue May 23, 2017, 05:20 PM
May 2017

when i said "commercial interest" i really was thinking more in terms of an audience.
you're right, though, you need advertisers, and unfortunately while there are plenty of advertisers happy to go all-in on right-wing sources, there doesn't seem to be a comparable contingent willing to go left.

Volaris

(10,272 posts)
27. We need a law that states if you wanna run a Newsroom,
Tue May 23, 2017, 06:09 PM
May 2017

That NEWSROOM has to be revenue-neutral at least. Feel free to make as much dirty money as u want with other broadcast ENTERTAINMENT endeavors, but news has to be treated as a Public Service. If you don't operate that way, FCC require you to plug your show AS ENTERTAINMENT before and after each commercial break you're making money off of.

Rush Limbaugh would be off the air in 45 days, wouldn't he?

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
38. You don't want to have ME regulating broadcasting in the USA.
Tue May 23, 2017, 11:12 PM
May 2017

If I were dictator... I'd abolish the FCC and set up the Federal Broadcasting Authority. Every broadcaster would have to bid for a license, with a minimum quality threshold. News would have to be impartial. Opinion shows are labelled as such, and opposing views must be aired. I'd also ban political advertising, giving candidates free airtime at election time instead.

So I may be modelling this on the UK's Independent Broadcasting Authority, itself abolished by... Conservatives. It was a good model for its time.

The problem is we have this thing called the Internet that can circumvent all of that.

american_ideals

(613 posts)
36. Totally agree
Tue May 23, 2017, 10:10 PM
May 2017

I'd add that the comedians help too. Liberals like to be entertained.

John Oliver
Daily show
Stephen Colbert
Samantha Bee

They are basically all liberal news.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
57. While I do not disagree about NPR
Wed May 24, 2017, 10:02 AM
May 2017

I still think they are on our side simply because they try to report the news straight up. While I may occasionally disagree with the way they frame a story, I realize I am extremely biased.

But if somehow all the fox listeners suddenly switched to NPR most of our troubles would end.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
34. Advertisers want gullible consumers
Tue May 23, 2017, 08:43 PM
May 2017

So it is much easier to pander to the most gullible consumers - right wingers

Corporations that own networks and their advertisers do not want to promote or support through advertising a pro-worker, pro-environment, pro-consumer messages.

The problem is not on the demand side, it's the supply side that supports right-wing media.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
3. Don't think they have "come around". They are still following the drama...
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:16 PM
May 2017

only now the drama is about Trump get impeached.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
4. Broadcast "news" is utterly useless
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:22 PM
May 2017

When there is something legitimate to report, they report rumors to keep running the one story into the ground. Otherwise, they lie by omission. People who want to be informed would be wise to switch to print with digital subscriptions to decent big city newspapers and magazines that print in depth stories.

progressoid

(49,991 posts)
12. I recently tried to watch them again.
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:36 PM
May 2017

It was unbearable. I especially can't stand the incessant panels of talking heads bleating their tiresome opinions about the latest trending topic.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
14. The hospital had very limited fare when I was in 2 years ago
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:45 PM
May 2017

so I tried CNN--for about 10 minutes. The breathless delivery in bafflegab of minutiae that would cause the end of life as we know it was not going to contribute to my recovery. I finally found CSI reruns to watch when I wasn't zonked on oxy for my broken leg.

genxlib

(5,528 posts)
5. In my opinion
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:24 PM
May 2017

IN regards to the media's culpability on getting cheeto elected...

I think the blame is largely on the new media. Primarily cable news and to a lesser degree network news.

Online sources were almost as bad and were definitely made worse by the rampant fake news that was interwoven among the typical news sources.

However, with one notable exception, I think the print media did their job. That notable exception was the AP hit job on the Clinton Foundation. But other than that, there was plenty of written reporting about what Trump actually was. The problem was that it rarely made it to the much brighter and louder atmosphere of the TV.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
10. Yep, Kurt Eichenwald did enough work for at least 3 papers.
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:31 PM
May 2017

The print media (for the most part) did their jobs but it's hard to compete against the idiot box that confirms your bias depending on what you watch.

oasis

(49,389 posts)
40. Fox propaganda playbook. Not your grandfather's "News".
Tue May 23, 2017, 11:36 PM
May 2017

How does this kind of journalism put America first?

I wonder how long university and college journalism instructors have been using Fox as a horrible example of journalistic ethics and professionalism.

With the exception of Liberty College and Bob Jones University.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
46. That's good. Thks
Wed May 24, 2017, 02:01 AM
May 2017

So true that if that is all they hear, it sounds normal. I always check when there is a major story against the Repubs, that every newspaper in the world is covering, if Fox is covering it. Often, they do not, or if it becomes big enough that their viewers are probably hearing about it, they undermine it. It is not news, unless it's covering tornados or terrorist attacks.

The Wielding Truth

(11,415 posts)
41. I think the light of truth when presented like it has been lately on CNN and MSNBC, opens minds.
Wed May 24, 2017, 12:52 AM
May 2017

Lies cannot live in sunshine. When people hear the truth the lies can not stand and people turn to the places where the truth can be found.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
11. Well Trump did declare war on the media
Tue May 23, 2017, 04:32 PM
May 2017

Put them in pens at the back of the room and insults them daily. It's time they got in the fight against him.

BamaRefugee

(3,483 posts)
17. This is how they make money
Tue May 23, 2017, 05:13 PM
May 2017

Newspapers and TV shows don't generate much money when everything is groovy. Pretty sure the "media" is very happy with the way things are, and don't really have an interest in it going away

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
30. I don't think you can blame legitimate media for Trump getting elected.
Tue May 23, 2017, 06:54 PM
May 2017

Legitimate media publishes real news. So there's that. But also, it reports on what people want to see and hear about. It's not the opposite way around, with people just accepting what the media wants to tell them about.

TV media has a LOT of time to fill. That's part of the problem. But ratings has always been the name of the game. Before tv, newspapers rose and fell on subscriptions...how many people read their paper & subscribed to it.

underpants

(182,830 posts)
31. I disagree
Tue May 23, 2017, 07:04 PM
May 2017

His amount of airtime was astounding. There was one day where he was going to exhibit all his products (most of which had failed) and the prep,for the news event was carried live. At the same time Bernie, who drew "Trump sized crowds" before Trump was in the race, had 20,000 people at a rally - no coverage.

It was estimated during the primaries that he had received $2 Million of free air time. Ted Cruz even mentioned that in a debate. When Trump ran out of primary money waiting for the nomination he put out a statement that he was going to rely on media coverage - because he's so great- aaaaand he got it.

50-60% was about airtime.

Generic Brad

(14,275 posts)
37. CNN still normalizes him
Tue May 23, 2017, 10:16 PM
May 2017

They need to drop the over the top shills if they are to become watchable in my home.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
45. That's true -- but the PRINT media did a better job,
Wed May 24, 2017, 01:55 AM
May 2017

especially the Washington Post and Newsweek.

And now the NYTimes seems to be trying harder, too.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
47. I think it was Billions of free airtime. A million of TV time is an ad. Anyway, I agree. It was
Wed May 24, 2017, 02:08 AM
May 2017

impossible to turn on the TV without seeing his mug.

wishstar

(5,270 posts)
50. One example- George Steph of ABC let Trump call in almost every morning for fluff interviews
Wed May 24, 2017, 06:09 AM
May 2017

I emailed ABC/Stephananopoulis to complain since Trump was the only candidate getting this constant exposure where he was allowed to dominate the coverage spreading his messages virtually unchallenged. Just one example of the media bias.

underpants

(182,830 posts)
56. Fox and Friends Monday mornings
Wed May 24, 2017, 08:45 AM
May 2017

He prepped the battlefield on them. Everyonday morning for several years before he ran. The hosts just sat there and nodded while he spewed his birther and tough guy bulls---

Ailes had to agree or it wouldn't have happened.

MrPurple

(985 posts)
61. Totally agree - 50-60% could be a low estimate
Wed May 24, 2017, 01:21 PM
May 2017

When was there ever live coverage of a John Kasich speech, or any of the other Republican candidates? It is a massive advantage for one candidate to be on tv for hours every day while the other ones aren't shown at all.

Same thing for Bernie & Hillary. Whether people thought Trump was a horrible car wreck or something they like, the networks felt that channel surfing people were more like to watch it and boost their ratings the most. MSNBC and CNN were just as bad as Fox.

There used to be an equal time rule for people running for office on tv. Trump is the eventual result of our degraded infotainment media.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
48. It used to be ClearChannel, remember them?
Wed May 24, 2017, 04:02 AM
May 2017

They're still the same assholes that they were when they had the old name. Personally, I blame them for ruining music radio stations in this country, because all they play is garbage on repeat these days. And that's not to mention their investment in winger talk radio.

When and iHeartRadio dies, I'm going to jump for joy.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
49. Great news.. but, what the hell is msnbc
Wed May 24, 2017, 06:02 AM
May 2017

thinking hiring greta and acti like LO'D is replaceable with brian I've lied about my exploits Williams?

Nitram

(22,822 posts)
62. I disagree that "all of the media holds a majority of the blame for the clustertrump getting in
Wed May 24, 2017, 01:25 PM
May 2017

office." Right wing media supported Trump 100%, mainstream media publicized and criticized every stupid move he made to no avail. Trump won because:

1. Too many Americans are racists.

2. The right wing media, Republican investigations, Russian propaganda on social media, and a timely insertion by FBI Director Comey cast just enough doubt on Clinton to persuade just enough liberals and moderates not to vote.

3. Too many Americans would not vote for a woman for president, including many women.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Something's happening her...