Why do I need my birth certificate to go to Toronto?

[TreasonousBastard]

After years of falling walls and borders, we're building them up again. Not Mexico, or the EU, but CANADA!

I used to drive up to Montreal every month or so for work a while back, but now it looks like a living hell. I do remember the Canadians just waving me through, but on the way back I got questioned by our border nazis as if I was a criminal. And that was before 9-11.

Now, we need a special card or a passport to get up there. Why? Somebody thought it would be a good idea. Catch terrorists and criminals at the border? Bad enough they're making it tougher to get in the US, but now they're making it tough to get OUT! Maybe it's something they just want to do and 9-11 gave them the excuse.

Anyway, NY is the one state so far that has the enhanced drivers license (for an extra 30 bucks, of course) that gets you through the border bullshit. Went to get one yesterday, but they need my birth certificate to prove I'm a US citizen. I proved I was a citizen years ago when they first came up with that nonsense to renew the license, but now I have to prove it again.

Oh. And you can't get a NYC Health Dept stamped birth certificate any more. You drag your ass down to Worth St and get the cute one like Trump showed us. I got one of those a few years ago and it seemed like a joke. Too bad I don't still have it. You can, however, go online and get it, for 40 bucks.


AAAAaaaarrrrggghhh

[HoneyBadger]

1. You don't

You need one to get back. I have dealt with issues getting back from Canada for decades. And I drive there at least 6x a year. Typically a full search of the car. It has never been easy.

[mzteaze]

2. Joisey

Here they require you provide 6 points of proof even though you've had a state license for years. That includes a passport or birth certificate.

The overwhelming reasoning for this is almost always some mumbo jumbo about 9/11.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Lived there during 9-11 and remember when that happened...

maybe that's why I trucked over to Worth St.

Knew a lot of people scrambling around to get renewed.

[mzteaze]

13. Me too.

The 6 point system was implemented after 9/11. I still laugh because you have to bring a piece of mail addressed to you as one of the points.

Pre 9/11 it was actually easier to get a license in NY. NJ still required that you take the written test because they did not accept licenses from other states.

[crazycatlady]

17. Surprisigly

NJ let me renew my license by mail. No trip to the DMV is always a pleasant experience.

[jberryhill]

3. Depends on whether or not you want to come back

[FakeNoose]

4. It's easy to show your passport

I've been using my US passport for every situation I need to show positive ID.
Your birth certificate doesn't have a photo, it only shows when and where you were born.

Just sayin'

[crazycatlady]

14. Not everyone has a passport

I haven't had one since I was a child. International travel is simply not in the budget, and the fee is cost prohibitive for a document I can use existing ones for.

There are a few countries I'd love to visit, but I won't cross a border with Trump's customs department.

[FakeNoose]

39. OK but Trump didn't start this

The passport requirement was started after 9/11, by the Dept. of Homeland Security.

If you want to blame a President it would be Dubya, not Trump.

Just sayin'

[crazycatlady]

40. Not blaming Trump

However, I've been told that Customs and Border Patrol has gotten worse since Trump.

(I last dealt with them as a minor, therefore my parents did everything).

[HoneyBadger]

41. If one cannot afford a passport, they probably cannot afford to travel

Just for me to get a single round trip to the airport is the cost of a 10 year passport.

[crazycatlady]

43. all the travel I've done recently was company paid

Including flights and my transportation (in my case train) to and from the airport.

I view a passport in the 'nice to have' category. If an occasion arises where I'll need one, then I'll get one. Ever since I first met my (now) BIL, he insisted that everyone needs to have a passport at all time (he has family overseas, I do not). I told him if he's willing to pay for it, then I will get one. That was in 2001. Had I listened to him then, I would have paid $150 for something that would never be used.

[LanternWaste]

18. I love Urban Dictionary: Just Sayin'...

Just sayin' : The punctuation people put at the end of an unsolicited, factless assertion to indicate self satisfaction at having stated something they erroneously believe to be clever, biting, and insightful.

[HoneyBadger]

5. Also, you can order a "long" birth certificate online

It is called a vault certificate and cost the same $. When it asks you to plug in the reason for the BC, choose Apostille and you will get the vault version. I think that it is $15.

https://www.vitalchek.com/birth-certificates

[frankieallen]

7. if you need a BC or passport to get into Canada, you should be angry with the Canadians.

It is another country you know.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Canada doesn't seem to care-- it's my own damn country that's causing the trouble.

[onenote]

19. The US sets the policy for returning from Canada, not entering Canada.

And the policy for returning from Canada has been getting tougher for over a decade under presidents of both parties:

"Since January 2007 U.S. citizens traveling by air to and from Canada have needed a valid passport to enter or re-enter the United States. Beginning January 31, 2008, U.S. and Canadian citizens aged 19 and older traveling into the U.S. from Canada by land or sea (including ferries) have had to present documents denoting citizenship and identity. This change primarily affects American and Canadian citizens who have previously been permitted entry into the U.S. by oral declaration alone, and marks the transition toward standard and consistent documents for all travelers entering the U.S. Acceptable documentation includes a valid passport or government-issued photo identification such as a driver's license and proof of citizenship such as a birth certificate. Children aged 18 and under need only to present a birth certificate. A list of acceptable documents is found at http://canada.usembassy.gov. Travelers who do not present acceptable documents may be delayed as U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers at the port of entry attempt to verify identity and citizenship. Beginning in June 2009, all travelers, including U.S. citizens, will have to present a passport or other secure document that denotes identity and citizenship when entering the U.S. from Canada."

[LisaM]

9. Blame Bush (W) for that one.

Before 9/11 (and even for a few years afterwards) all you needed to go back and forth was a driver's license or even just a voter ID card. My high school used to send buses of kids up to Stratford, Ontario twice a year and at the border someone just stuck their head in and asked if we were all American citizens and then waved us through. Before the requirement for a passport or enhanced ID, I did carry my birth certificate for a couple of years, but they barely looked at it.

Now, I'm worried about even going into Canada, much less another country.

[HoneyBadger]

11. In college, I took a camping class

The final was a camping trip in Canada. Professor brought a handgun with him for animals. Highly illegal, yet a non issue. Things definitely seemed to changed after 9/11. I have been to Canada over 100 times since 9/11.

[LisaM]

21. I think I've been three or four times.

I used to go a lot more often before.

[demmiblue]

24. Same... I never had to show my license.

We just had to answer the standard questions about citizenship, travel plans and, occasionally, if we had anything to declare.

[hunter]

36. Going back and forth to Mexico used to be easy too... if you were white.

But the last time my brother crossed back into the United States from Mexico he got eight hours of harassment and his car searched; floor mats pulled up and not replaced, luggage dumped out, threats of strip searches, the works.

We suspect it's because he flipped off the U.S. border cameras as he was driving into Mexico. The U.S.A. takes a picture of every car leaving and they record every license plate number in a computer database.

When my siblings and I and our friends were reckless young people we rarely got into any trouble crossing the border. We were more worried about getting too drunk and disorderly for the Mexican police to tolerate, and they tolerated a lot because drunk U.S. kids were a primary source of income for many local businesses.

[d_r]

37. I used to come back

Drunk as a skunk and carrying way more bottles of booze than were allowed and Cuban cigars

[HoneyBadger]

42. I worked in Juarez, TJ, and MC for years while staying in the US

It has not been easy in decades

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

10. I believe we've needed passport or some other serious

proof of citizenship for several years now coming back from anywhere into the U.S. Maybe five or so years.

The last time I renewed my passport I also got the Passport card that's "Valid only for international land and sea travel between United States, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda." It seems totally absurd that it's not also valid for air travel, since you go through exactly the same hoops to get it as to get the passport. I keep that card in my wallet at all times.

And even though you don't need it or your passport to enter Canada, the Canadians probably don't want to be stuck with any of us if we can't return legally to the U.S.

[frankieallen]

12. Well, apparently TreasonousBastard needs one to leave the country.

[onenote]

20. If that's the case, its because the Canadians are requiring it.

They decide the policy for entry. We decide the policy for return.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. No I don't, but why would I leave if I can't get back?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. Ohhh there are lots of reasons, although

more along the lines of leaving and not intending to return.

The next thing to look out for is we're going to start needing visas to enter EU countries, which we've never needed even though I think all of them need visas to enter this country.

I remember when I first started travelling overseas in the early '70s and being astonished at the countries I could visit without needing a visa.

[TreasonousBastard]

33. As I mentioned in another post, every time I came back from Europe my passport was blank...

The only stamps in it were US and some Caribbean islands.

Drove 'em nuts-- they didn't know where I was. And I had no idea what would happen if I told them it was none of their business.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

44. Interesting.

And mine was always stamped.

[LisaM]

22. I have a friend who had an uncle visiting from China.....

he was rather elderly, and he was a scholar, visiting as a professor. He went into Canada from Detroit to give a paper. While he was there, 9/11 occurred, and he was not let back in the country for - literally - months. They couldn't figure a way to get him back in. What threat did an elderly professor from China pose? None. Eventually, because he had lived in Hong Kong, he was finally admitted because he had a British passport, but it took some legal wangling to figure that out and who knows how much money.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. I have a friend in Toronto who was born in Sweden and came over when she was 5. Since she wasn't...

born in Canada, after 9-11 she had to go through hell to take her annual vacation in Florida.

She said nuts to it and started going to Cuba instead.

It's insane and accomplishes nothing.

[LisaM]

28. You know those 5-year old Swedes....

real troublemakers, every one of them!

[TreasonousBastard]

26. The passport card can't be stamped, so it's restricted to certain countries, although...

a while back when I still had a passport, every time I went to Europe nobody stamped it. I would come back and get a third degree about where I'd been.

The only stamps were re-entry to the US.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

32. The restriction is clearly noted. But can't it be used for returning from

those countries via plane. It makes no sense to me, since those countries aren't stamping passports, either.

I first used my card on a cruise in the Caribbean, and such customs formalities as we went through entering another country (Mexico, Cayman Islands) were quite brief, if they even existed. Returning back to the U.S. was also just a formality. I can't recall if the cruise line had made sure they'd seen passports or passport cards when we embarked, but they probably did and I'm simply forgetting.

Back in my heyday of travel in the '70s I recall my passport being stamped going into nearly every country, except Mexico. So your pointing out that the passport card can't be stamped makes a lot of sense of its restrictions. Thank you for that information.

[SoCalNative]

35. You must have travelled in the schengen area

once you land in one country that's part of it, you don't have to go through passport control in any of the others

[frankieallen]

38. you are all over the place, what the hell are you talking about?

You are unhappy with America because you need a passport to get in? What do you mean " get a third degree about where i'd been". You mean when the customs officer asked you where your coming from when they stamp your passport? They have been doing that for many years, as that is their job.
This whole thread is pointless.

[Doreen]

15. Canada is trying to keep Trump voters and supporters out

and the U.S. is trying to keep Democrats out. How is that for an explanation?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

16. And don't have any kind of record.

My brother in law was turned away from the Canadian border for a dui.

[LisaM]

23. Bush and Cheney had three DUIs between them.......

it was ironic when that requirement was instituted while the two of them held office. I kept hoping against hope they wouldn't be allowed into Canada because of it.

[SticksnStones]

29. I don't think they can leave the country

Weren't they convicted in absentia of war crimes?

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a35397/bush-cheney-war-crimes/

[former9thward]

31. They can and do leave the country.

No one has convicted them or even indicted them for anything. There is no warrant out for them anywhere. Your link goes to a fake "court" that has no legal authority. It is a "court" made up by a private organization with no governmental backing or legal authority. Both Bush and Cheney have given speeches around the world.

[sl8]

34. NY isn't the only State with the enhanced driver's license:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Drivers_License