The Bernie Bashing is so counterproductive.

[TDale313]

Keep trashing an incredibly popular left-leaning politician with millions of supporters (the vast majority of whom voted Dem in November despite a very contentious primary) Keep screaming that Independents are bad and we don't want or need them no matter how much we might agree on policies because they're not "real Dems". He and his supporters are not the fucking enemy. But the more you keep attacking him and them the harder it becomes to to come together where we need to.

[LexVegas]

1. I dont think the "vast majority" of Independents voted Dem in November. nt

[Kathy M]

8. An article worth reading that was written Oct 31 2016

before making assumptions ...... http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/hillary-clinton-and-the-populist-revolt

Just wanted to add Hillary was interviewed by writer .....

[tavalon]

124. I'd love to see some numbers on this

Anecdotal: I voted for HRC specifically because Bernie asked me to. I got my whole family on board with voting for her, because Bernie asked me to.

[oasis]

2. "Bernie bashing" is not allowed on DU. Them's the rules.

[Barack_America]

16. Bit of advice, don't wade into the cesspool that is the front page of GD.

Rules apparently don't apply.

[oasis]

25. I see plenty OPs where questions about BS are raised. In browsing

the threads I've seen some unkind remarks about Bernie, but no "bashing".

[WoonTars]

106. No shit.

...You'd think this was still primary season..

[zentrum]

53. But it's started again.

One poster in particular has to get his/her daily does of Bernie bashing. It's really unpleasant. Very strange that it should come back now.

I love how much Bernie is publicizing our opposition to what 45 is doing.

[Cha]

62. It's not bashing when BS' quotes, insulting the Democratic

Party, are posted. It's calling him out.

That would be BS "bashing" BS.

oasis

[oasis]

71. Exactly. When questions arise it's fair to examine a politician's

actions and motives. That's what we do on political discussion sites. Asking for clarification of a politian's postion should be, and is, permitted here.

That said, I salute you, Cha and all DUers who make the effort of getting links and other verifiable information out to the members.

[Cha]

78. ..

.. Mahalo to you, too, for all you do the keep around, oasis.

[Orrex]

92. Which rule is that?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the rule forbids the bashing of Democrats, while saying nothing at all about bashing Independents?

[demmiblue]

96. Here:

Don't bash Democratic public figures

Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

Skinner has reaffirmed this several times in ATA.

[Orrex]

97. Thank you.

[SalviaBlue]

108. I wish this was enforced.

Maybe the admins aren't aware yet of how bad it has become

[OnionPatch]

118. Me too.

I've about had it. This used to be my favorite progressive website. I've been a member for 13 years. But now I only come here out of habit more than anything else. I guess I keep hoping the Bernie bashing will fade away but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. Time to look for a new home I guess.

[Lil Missy]

137. Too bad Bernie won't follow the same rule. n/t

[ret5hd]

3. I believe that's the entire point.

[elleng]

4. 'the harder it becomes to to come together where we need to.'

Seems so.

[NanceGreggs]

5. And Bernie bashing the Democratic Party ...

... is somehow NOT counter-productive?

[elleng]

9. He doesn't 'bash,'

he states facts.

[sheshe2]

18. Lol

Saw your posts on another thread, you loved them. Who were you talking to? They were gone when I got there.

[WomenRising2017]

19. facts like

"abortion is a wedge issue"

or

"When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto,” Sanders said. “You don’t know what it’s like to be poor.” 

or

“My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.”

or

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’”


Sorry, but fuck that. That's crystal clear bashing, not facts.

Let him take his Democrat bashing parade elsewhere. I'm sick of his shit.

[NurseJackie]

34. That's exactly what it is, and it needs to stop...

... and people need to stop making excuses for it, and stop celebrating it.

[Jamaal510]

42. +1

[Cha]

54. Yes, FACTS like those.. that they can't seem

to address.

When BS stops Insulting the Dem Party.. I will stop calling him out.

[betsuni]

59. +1

[Cha]

44. BULLPUCKEY! BS insults the Democratic Party with shots like these..

"feeble" and "can't fight back"on Rachel's Show and "..the Democratic Party of the elite" in Boston with Senator Warren..

When ssarandon is the Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

..he insults Dems Who are out there on the Front Lines Fighting for our Very Lives..

He's Wrong and Divisive.. only helping trump, the gop, and the m$m.

Dems have our BACKs and I have theirs.

Truth.. Our Dems ARE Fighting for us..

Democratic Congressman Calls for 'Total and Complete Shutdown' of Trump Agenda in Congress

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028837680

Maxine Waters? Tweets: Meet Donald Trump's Kremlin Klan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028839413

Top Dem calls for investigation into House Intelligence chairman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736108

Schumer: Democrats will filibuster Gorsuch nomination

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736192

Al Franken: What was Merrick Garland about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028836324

Woah. Rep Schiff: New evidence of Trump/Russia collusion "would merit a grand jury investigation"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028840444

Thanks to Franken and Klobuchar for helping Dems understand why Gorsuch must be filibustered

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028838216

[zentrum]

56. Yup. But you

....can't make that distinction without getting an "earful", so to speak.

[BigBearJohn]

69. Absolutely TRUE Elleng. i agree 100% with you.

And if the Dems lose in 2018, who do you think everyone here is going to blame? Bernie, no doubt. We are so good at circular firing squads.

[Barack_America]

20. It's actually supremely effective...

...when you are trying to reach voters who despise the Dem party, but should actually be voting for it.

Why is Perez doing joint events with Bernie if he's so awful? Why is he working with Bernie? And how do you know he doesn't support Bernie distancing himself from the party as a pretty smart strategic move?

Or is everyone here just upset that the Dem party seems to be trying to redefine itself as a post-Clinton Dem party?

[elleng]

23. Thanks, Barack. I'm outta here.

[WomenRising2017]

37. bye

[Barack_America]

40. Bullying so soon?

Or, is that, again?

[sheshe2]

50. By that you mean???

What exactly? Hmmm.

[Barack_America]

55. It's a bold introduction to the group.

Unusually bold.

That is what I mean.

[sheshe2]

81. Lol

[sheshe2]

82. sleep tight

[YoungDemCA]

65. What is the Democratic Party? A means to (left-liberal) ends?

Or an end in and of itself?

I know it's hard for you and some others to fathom a politician running on the Democratic ballot whose overriding priority isn't to make the party a multi-billion-dollar fundraising machine (courtesy of wealthy, powerful donors) that will work on his behalf politically in exchange for overwhelming influence on his policy agenda once in office, but Sanders actually is breaking the pattern (rather than merely claiming to). And that's a good thing.

[Lone Star]

6. I'm just going to say it isn't productive.

I have been spending my time at KOS

[Quixote1818]

7. I don't get what the infatuation with Bernie is all about? There are plenty of other Dems who we

really should be angry at. I can understand things got heated but that was a year ago. Why can't people let it go? I also don't see it any other place but here. Am I missing this going on other places? As for my liberal friends, Sanders isn't even on anyone's radar. I also think it's only around 15 to 20 people here who keep those threads alive. The vast majority of DU doesn't have a problem with Bernie.

[elleng]

10. I agree, around 15 to 20 people here.

I haven't check other places.

[Warpy]

11. I never see it among the foul mouthed knitters

who seem to have a pretty good grasp of who the enemy is (enemies are, it's international). They also tend to leave Farcebook trash over at Farcebook.

I've been throwing the bashers into ignore as they expose themselves. Somehow, I find people who want to bash a former candidate and alienate his supporters to be suspiciously undemocratic.

I've given up hope of seeing the "don't keep fighting the last primary" rule enforced. Ever.

[elleng]

12. Your discipline is admirable, Warpy.

Tho I should, I haven't 'ignored' anyone. I do ACTUALLY ignore, tho. I agree, suspiciously undemocratic.

[LovingA2andMI]

100. Hopefully....

If They Are Placed on Ignoring They Are Actually Kept There --- As Many, We Placed On Ignoring During The Primary Have Sudden Have Popped Right Back Up Into Our DU Feed --- And They Are Ever-Present Bernie Bashers.

[YoungDemCA]

68. Two things.

1. His politics are actually threatening to the bipartisan wealthy donor class - which has a poisonous stranglehold over American politics and its dominant political parties.

2. He had the fucking gall to run for office and become a serious challenger to the "coronation", so to speak.

It's not really about him. It's what he reprsents - whom he represents. Never underestimate the determination of those opposed to mass, genuinely left-wing politics to discredit and marginalize these movements.

[CrispyQ]

109. You hit it out of the park with #1.

His politics are actually threatening to the bipartisan wealthy donor class - which has a poisonous stranglehold over American politics and its dominant political parties.

[TDale313]

111. Spot. On. Thank you.

[JudyM]

120. You got it.

[uponit7771]

125. right now he represents bashing democrats

[markpkessinger]

73. As I said in a certain other thread . . .

"Bashing Bernie is easy; learning the lessons of 2016, not so much."

I mean, I guess these folks think we should just revert to the same old same old. Hell, just hire Debbie back and pick up where she left off, right? What many don't seem to grasp is that whatever may be said about Russia or Wikileaks or Comey or Assange (all of which should be thoroughly investigated), at the end of the day, the reality is still that nobody held a gun to anybody's head and forced them to pull the lever for Trump. And if people failed to show up at the polls, it is because a candidate failed to inspire them to show up at the polls.

So sure: let's just keep doing what we've been doing (because it has worked out SO well for the party) and hope for a different result. There's a word for that.

[Gothmog]

13. The goal is to keep the party from being remade into the image of a person who is not supporting the

Party.

I do not think that this is counterproductive

[elleng]

22. supports the party's goals, and has forever.

So-called members of the party don't actually act to support the party's goals, but spend lots of time bashing a strong person of the people.

[Cha]

72. BS spends a lot of time insulting the Democratic Party.. he is Wrong & Divisive..

BS calls our Democratic Party.. "feeble" and "can't fight back"on Rachel's Show and "..the Democratic Party of the elite" in Boston with Senator Warren..

When ssarandon is the Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

..he insults Dems Who are out there on the Front Lines Fighting for our Very Lives..

He's Wrong and Divisive.. only helping trump, the gop, and the m$m.

Dems have our BACKs and I have theirs.

Truth.. Our Dems ARE Fighting for us..

Democratic Congressman Calls for 'Total and Complete Shutdown' of Trump Agenda in Congress

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028837680

Maxine Waters? Tweets: Meet Donald Trump's Kremlin Klan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028839413

Top Dem calls for investigation into House Intelligence chairman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736108

Schumer: Democrats will filibuster Gorsuch nomination

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141736192

Al Franken: What was Merrick Garland about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028836324

Woah. Rep Schiff: New evidence of Trump/Russia collusion "would merit a grand jury investigation"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028840444

Thanks to Franken and Klobuchar for helping Dems understand why Gorsuch must be filibustered

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028838216

[Gore1FL]

49. I would like to see it made into a party that doesn't jerk to the right in fear all the time

We've been cowering in the corner since Ronald Reagan crying "don't hurt me" to the GOP.

I would be happy for the party, and I don't care what person/personality lead it, to emerge as a coalition that stands for a liberal agenda in more than half-measure.

We haven't had a presidential candidate (successful or otherwise) who hasn't rolled-over when it comes to Reaganomics since at least Mike Dukakis, and arguably Walter Mondale.

Democrats aren't regularly going to win elections between the 40 yard lines. We need to be Democrats again, not GOP Lite.

[disillusioned73]

114. Amen..

[YoungDemCA]

70. What's counterproductive is the Democratic Party's political strategy and embrace of wealthy donors.

A party like that absolutely needs to be remade, specifically into something actually reflective of its name (Democratic) and something that can receive popular support outside of the mainstream liberal echo chamber. Support that it needs for it to win elections, by the way.

[Chevy]

80. Like TYT and their GOP sugar daddy? N/T

[emulatorloo]

128. Thanks for the reminder, +1

[Barack_America]

15. Right? We finally have someone who can reach GOP voters....

...who vote against their own interests, and half our party is declaring, "Fuck this guy"??

Just fucking excellent.

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

[Quixote1818]

24. Well said. nt

[berksdem]

103. + 1 I voted for Bernie in the primary....

and voted Hillary in the GE. I like Bernie and HRC...Every candidate is going to say something that does not ring well with the entire base . Say what you want about Bernie but at least he is a voice in a voiceless party right now - even if an Independent. It seems the Dems are more than happy to just let Trump be Trump and hope it works - how did that work in the GE?

All of this in-fighting is getting tired. Maybe this is why Bernie stays independent... Seems like DU has turned into the Bernie vs HRC board and heaven forbid either one is criticized. Getting old...

[TDale313]

112. Bingo.

[disillusioned73]

115. They are a loud bunch..

but definitely NOT 50%.. more like 8% - & sometimes I think that seems high..

[JudyM]

122. Same old blah blah bitching, like the kid at school you can't stand to eat lunch with.

[uponit7771]

126. saying abortion is a wedge issue isn't 'reaching'...lot more more people who don't vote than wingers

[QC]

17. Counterproductive for whom?

It all depends on where people are standing. Keeping Democrats divided does serve the interests of some people.

[WomenRising2017]

21. It sure does,

like the "draft Bernie" and the "justice democrats" people who are just as destructive towards Democrats as Republicans are.

[QC]

27. Not to mention professional message board disruptors.

You don't really think they wait until a week or two before the election to start sabotaging us, do you?

[WomenRising2017]

28. No, they are here right now trying to

fuck up our 2018 elections.

Strangely, Bernie Sanders is the face and message that they use to do so.

Rather odd, don't you think?

[quakerboy]

26. Not for the Kremlin

Very productive for the Republicans and their sponsors.

[TomCADem]

29. HuffPo - Democrats Must Overhaul Party, Attack Big Business, Bernie Sanders Says

Trump bashed big business, yet he is the most facist, corporatist President in years. Perhaps Bernie should focus more on the ruling party, rather than attacking the folks who are resisting the Trump regime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-democrats_us_58b343b1e4b060480e08daed

WASHINGTON, Feb 26 (Reuters) - Former U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders on Sunday urged a major overhaul of his party, calling for more aggressive efforts to court working-class voters and fight big businesses from Wall Street to the pharmaceutical sector.

Sanders, who spoke a day after Democrats chose Tom Perez, a veteran of former President Barack Obama’s administration, as their new party chairman, said it was also crucial for progressives to do more to mobilize grassroots supporters to take on Republican President Donald Trump.

“We need a total transformation,” the 75-year-old U.S. senator from Vermont said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

“We need to open up the party to working people, to young people and make it crystal clear that the Democratic Party is going to take on Wall Street, it’s going to take on the greed of the pharmaceutical industry, it’s going to take on corporate America that is shutting down plants in this country and moving our jobs abroad,” he added.

[delisen]

88. Sanders takes his fight to his friends rather than his enemies. His take on economics is 19th and

early 20th century. He's stuck in the days of "runaway shops" and doesn't seem to comprehend the reality of automation and robotization and the rapid transformation we are undergoing.

He doesn't seem to omprehend the extent of Russian cyber warfare and its interference in our election.(Yes he made a few Johnny come lately comments on Russia-but he's behind the curve not ahead of it).

He makes general pronouncements on many things--but I see no depth--but many "shoulds" instructing others on what they must do.

Hey, Trump is "taking on corporate America that is shutting down plants in this country and moving them overseas." Trump is bad at analysis and specifics too. Trump talked a good emotional line on taking on corporate America re jobs-but he can't deliver. Are we supposed to become Trump?

Sanders is a bit like a sports announcer for the home team who spends much of his time telling us how bad the home team is without an specific solutions. He demoralizes some Democrats and pleases many Republicans.

I don't see him as having a major long-term effect.

The Democratic Party will move forward under the banner of Human Rights and Human Dignity-verything else will flow from these principles.

[Me.]

30. Why Did You Even Do This Thread?

It also being counterproductive.

[applegrove]

31. Don't ya think it is GOP trolls? Bernie is the most popular politician in the country and

he is promoting government universal health care.

[zentrum]

58. And help for student

...debt. He's one of the people and lights giving me hope in these dark times.

[applegrove]

60. Yes. He's the real populist.

[herding cats]

66. He's the most popular Senator in his state.

Which I think is pretty cool, but it's not the same as being the most popular politician in the country. That poll has been widely misunderstood and misquoted.

I'd love to see how he ranks now on a national level, personally. Especially on a national level among left leaning people.

[Cha]

32. BS Bashing the Democratic Party is so Fucking Counter-Productive.

[brettdale]

33. maybe its a case of

Everytime Bernie gives a speech, there are 40 or fifty different posts in general discussion,
saying he is the savior of the democratic party.

It puts people off.

[tallahasseedem]

48. +1,000,000

[Cha]

61. What puts me off is BS insulting our Democratic Party..

he's too divisive and counter-productive. He gets it wrong.

[LovingA2andMI]

101. Try The Ignore Button or Trash.....

That's The Right Way To Eliminate Posts That Interrupt Your Day......

If They Work That Is.....

[nikibatts]

35. So is trying to shut down legitimate debate and discussion and opinions.

[tallahasseedem]

36. He's not a Democrat...

and this is Democratic Underground. He found it okay to talk crap about a Dem who is fighting for us in Georgia.

There are plenty of places for Independents to congregate. I paid to be a part of a board where I could talk about DEMOCRATS, not Independents telling us why we have to follow bird man no matter what he says or does (votes with NRA and supporting an anti choice candidate).

[Cryptoad]

39. A-fucking-men

this plus +6570 !

[tallahasseedem]

46. :)

[cstanleytech]

67. Sadly I have to agree.

Thats not a bash at Bernie of course but thats simply acknowledging the the fact is he has refused to join the Democratic party after he failed to secure the nomination for said party.

[Chevy]

76. [phone] N/T

[LovingA2andMI]

102. Here We Go Again.....

Must Be A Copy/Paste Talking Point Kept Somewhere To Copy/Paste On Any Pro-Bernie Or Why The Bernie Bashing Is Happening Thread. Amazingly, The Same Posters Use The Copy/Paste Anti-Bernie "He's Not A Democrat....Blah, Blah, Blah" Talking Point, Every time.

Let's hope the ignore button is working for real again, this time. We'll see....

[cstanleytech]

110. But loving the truth is he isn't a member of the party and that was his choice for whatever reason.

I'm not bashing him because I actually agree with him more often than not however if he wants to really help he needs to consider joining because by not joining alot of those who are higher up in the party probably won't give him or his opinion as much consideration on what he thinks that the party should do.

[Gman]

38. I never had a problem with Sanders

It's his supporters that were the problem. I've never heard any of them say anything about how they were duped into rabidly touting Russian anti-Hillary propaganda. Much propaganda was posted here on DU, linking to RW sites. And alerting did nothing.

I've not seen anyone admit how they were duped by the Russians. Nor have I seen anyone apologize for their behavior.

[Hekate]

45. Welcome to DU. That's quite a mish-mash of an intro.

[Hekate]

43. Your OP is itself counterproductive. You've built quite a straw man there.

[stonecutter357]

51. what Bernie Bashing ?

[pnwmom]

52. The Democrat bashing is so counterproductive.

There are no longer any Democrats that aren't MUCH more progressive than any of the Rethugs. Bernie's view of the parties appears to be stuck back in the sixties, when there were liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats. That's no longer the case.



http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329559-sanders-i-dont-know-if-ossoff-is-progressive

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) says he doesn't know whether Democratic congressional candidate Jon Ossoff, who came in first Tuesday in a closely watched Georgia special election, is a progressive.

“I don’t know,” he said Tuesday in Louisville, Ky., The Wall Street Journal said Wednesday. “If you run as a Democrat, you’re a Democrat.”

“Some Democrats are progressive, and some Democrats are not,” the 2016 presidential candidate added.

[Cha]

63. "Some Democrats are progressive, and some Democrats are not, the 2016 presidential candidate added

And, some "progressives" are counter-productive.

Oh and BS wasn't the "2016 presidential candidate".

Mahalo for that, pnwmom

[mwooldri]

85. Anyone who ran in a primary election is considered to be a candidate.

Mr. Sanders was not the Democratic Party's Presidential Candidate. But he was a candidate for President. During the primaries.

Joe Biden was a Presidential Candidate. As was Dennis Kucinich, John Edwards, Mike Huckabee, Ron Paul, Rudy Giuliani and many more... that's just the 2012 Presidential race. All of these people at one point stood up in public and stated "I'm running for President" - and competed in a primary election. The fact that none of these people won their party's nomination for the Presidential race does not discount their status as candidates.

In any political party, there's always going to be some dissent. I find the situation with Mr. Sanders to be quite intriguing because we have a small state US Senator, who came to prominence during the 2016 election campaign, as someone who is not a full fledged member of the party with whom he caucuses with in Congress. In European politics, I'd call him a coalition partner. I'd argue and say it's not totally dissimilar to the arrangement the Christian Democratic Union has with the Christian Social Union in Germany (CSU only in Bavaria, CDU everywhere else) - and twice the leader of the smaller CSU (under a joint CDU/CSU ticket) ran for Chancellor of (West) Germany. The CDU and CSU have policy differences - enough for friction - not dissimilar to the disagreements that the Mr. Sanders and Company has with mainstream Democratic Party philosophy.

However the bad news is we need to win over middle class and working class white men back to the Democratic Party, while keeping everyone else in. There's enough White Anglo-Saxon Protestant mid & working class men that will influence enough others that if with the Republicans, will work it out to keep them in power in the horribleness that is today's Republican Party. Yes, I know they're "turkeys who voted for Thanksgiving" but if Presidents can pardon turkeys then Democrats can forgive and bring back the disaffected back into the fold.

Time to forget about the circular firing squads, and move forward. All ideas are important.

[TDale313]

64. There are no Liberal Republicans.

There is still a wide range in the Dem party. Are they nearly all more Progressive than any Republican? Without a doubt. Are they all (or many, or most) as Progressive as some of us would like? No, and those are very different questions. One can accept that Dems are better that Repugs on nearly everything and still feel there are areas we can and need to be better. YMMV- I don't consider that bashing.

[herding cats]

74. The thing is, everyone matters.

You, me and everyone under our umbrella. When someone starts trying to make that umbrella no longer cover some, they're naturally going to decry being left out in the elements. We can't blame them for that.

That's the problem with our style of Democracy and being so inclusive, it means we have to compromise at some point while we work to change the minds of society.

For what it's worth, I think we've been advancing our social agenda until this last election in society in general. Now we're going backwards again, and we'll have to fight old battles to regain ground we already held. Personally, I can't believe we have to go back and fight some of these battles again, not after all these decades of hard work. I never expected to have to be knocked back potentially decades, ever. It's as if all the hard work of my youth is nullified, and my middle age will now be more of the same. 30 years wasted, and all there is to show for it is people bickering meaningless semantics on the internet to make them feel relevant, and/or important.

Personally, I'm deeply depressed by this turn of events. I feel stripped of my voice and compartmentalized.

[pnwmom]

77. +1000. And to think some "progressives" like Stein and Sarandon welcomed DT

on the theory that things needed to get much worse before they'd get better.. What idiots.

[herding cats]

86. Yes, they were either fools or tools, I'm not sure which.

What I do know is they didn't advance the causes I care about. Which is all that matters to me.

Pretty words mean nothing in the end, it's all about what can effect and create real social change. Which we had the momentum in our corner before this last election. Now we don't. We've lost a vital seat on the Supreme Court, which will bite us in the ass for the next 30 years, and we've legitimized sexism, racism, and xenophobia as a nation, too boot.

Pretending this is going to end well is a fools errand. Look to Britain and Brexit if you doubt me. They're about to double down on their nationalism and xenophobia. Apparently neither of us can get our heads out of our asses and see the forest for the trees.

[pnwmom]

75. Bernie bashed Jon Ossoff when he said he didn't know if Ossoff was progressive,

that being a Democrat doesn't mean you are progressive.

The fact is that Jon Ossoff IS progressive, but Bernie's negative response made it sound as if there was some doubt about Ossoff.

[TDale313]

83. I don't know Bernie's intent on that.

I understand and do accept that's how it came off to you. Setting Ossoff aside for a moment, I just don't accept the premise that Democrat= Progressive. That's not necessarily a knock, I just think there are Dems who aren't particularly Progressive and Progessives who aren't Dems. I feel very comfortable saying Bernie sees a distinction. Again, are nearly all Dems more Progressive than all Republicans? Yes. Are they better than any Republican? Yes. But, honestly- that's a pretty low bar and further left than the current crop of Repugs can still be further right than many of us prefer.

[pnwmom]

84. The terms progressive and conservative are both relative terms. It's not all or nothing.

That's why Bernie can be progressive even though he supports gun rights, and why he can view Heath Mello as progressive even though he is anti-abortion.

[ehrnst]

93. Bernie sees things very dualistically

Clear even when he speaks:

He stated "Where Booker and Cummings get it right..." instead of "Where I agree with Booker and Cummings..."

Because Sanders doesn't tolerate dissent on certain issues, and if you disagree with him even slightly on any of those issues, you are "not a progressive" no matter how much you have accomplished for civil rights and economic reform. He clearly considers himself the final arbiter of "progressive" and "correct." That sort of "my way or the highway" thinking can come off as confident and consistent to some, but self-absorbed and authoritarian to many.

If you run on the Democratic platform, you are a progressive. The platform is progressive. That platform includes being pro-choice, and following the medical profession's recommendation that we oppose non-medically sanctioned restrictions on abortion.

However, since Bernie has determined that abortion is a "social issue" and not, as the medical community has stated, a public health issue, then Bernie will still consider you "progressive" so long as you adhere to his economic theories.

I don't consider that "progressive" at all. The fact he thinks championing reproductive health is "optional" for a progressive puts him, for me, outside of where our party should be, and it will roll us back.

I guess I just don't buy that Bernie is the arbiter of "progressive" and if you have to believe that for "party unity" then party unity isn't going to happen.

[pnwmom]

129. The more he lectures Dems on what it takes to be a real progressive, the more

he comes across to me as a cranky scold.

I just can't figure out what some people find so inspiring about him.

[ehrnst]

130. Got me.

Now Maxine Waters - she can pull off the take no prisoners, gonna take you to the woodshed power that an elder has.

Bernie just seems to yell about how he's the always the smartest one in the room, and anyone who disagrees is a corporate shill.

My way or the highway. I have to wonder if he grew up in a home where there was an alcoholic present, or adult child of an alcoholic - seriously. I know people who work in social justice who have, and they are also unbearable at times, but at least they have the respect of their peers, a sense of humor, and social skills. Yelling in front of crowds of strangers requires none of that.

[pnwmom]

131. Yes! She's a great counter-example. Just as passionate, and yet

doesn't come across as if she thinks she's better than most people.

[uponit7771]

127. +1

[Equinox Moon]

57. Thank you for your OP.

I agree.

[elmac]

79. Bernie Sanders doesn't insult the Democratic party

he complements it. He makes it better, stronger. There are a few Democrat's who continue to vote with the republicans and are Democrats only by name, not by deeds. They ARE insulting the party. Now, I'm sure the Putin GOP love the infighting, its a continuation of their misinformation strategy, divide and conquer. Oh, and please do not refer to Bernie Sanders by his initials when you are making negative statements about him, that IS insulting.

[Alice11111]

87. Yeah, I wish they would find someone else to bash, like DT.

I didn't even vote for him, but this continued obsession makes me understand why so many stayed home. No one is going to support someone who slaps her around over and over. Go to therapy and get over it, so we can unite and move on.

[synergie]

89. Exactly who is screaming that independent are bad?

And we're calling out the things he's saying that we don't agree with, like attacking Democrats, and Democratic candidates, while supporting people like Heath Mello?

We don't agree on jettisoning women's basic rights and "real Dems" and real progressives don't think forcing women to have invasive ultrasound procedures for the sole purpose of shaming them into forced gestation is a good thing.

He and his supporters are doing a whole lot of damage and pissing off Democrats and progressives with their constant attacks. Should we just lay back and enjoy the abuse? Honestly, all this cloth rending is utterly insane and we're tired of being asked to allow people to do whatever they wish, because our rights, our opinions and our voices don't matter, and we need to get along with the very people who are taking sides with our fucking enemies on issues like our basic human rights and bodily integrity.

The more they keep doing this the less progressive they prove themselves to be, and we don't need to "come together" with the nastiest elements of the right, even if they're pretending to be pure and "independent". Do not demand this of us, we will persist and we will resist.

[ehrnst]

90. When someone tolerates no dissent from his views, that's not "coming together"

That's expecting everyone else to march lockstep.

[malaise]

91. +1.000

Rec

[demmiblue]

95. +1.001

[maxrandb]

94. No - You know what's "counterproductive"?

Convincing enough Americans that "there's no difference between the parties" that you ensure complete Retrumplican rule from local dogcatcher to President

Ask the Dreamer who was deported in less than 3 hours if he thinks there's "any difference between the parties"

[TDale313]

98. Bernie has never made that case.

Neither have the vast majority of his supporters that I'm aware of. There was a reason he didn't go third party in his Presidential run, and this is it. He's not Nader or Jill Stein.

[alarimer]

99. This.

Yes, something like 48% of independents lean left. If the Democrats don't turn back the clock on 30 years of sucking up to corporations, they deserve to lose.

[left-of-center2012]

104. Bernie bashing will lower voter turn out in '18 and '20

Leading to more Bernie bashing in '18 and '20

[riderinthestorm]

105. Yup, thank you for this nt

[treestar]

107. The Bernie is all that is good is not too helpful

either. We sat through the primaries and heard Hillary bashed throughout it. Maybe now they are over and Bernie is still calling the party feeble and the like, he should be able to handle some bashing for his role in getting Donald of Orange into the WH - maybe not his intention, but he sure caused that, or at least, his fervid followers allowed themselves to (not the ones who shifted to Hillary).

[TDale313]

113. No politician has all the answers.

I like a lot of his policies. I think in general his message speaks to a lot of people- particularly young people. We could use that energy, and a more populist approach imo. But Bernie is not the reason we lost in November. And he did strongly support Hillary in the General (some of his supporters felt differently. Most ended up supporting her) This thing was lost among independents in the rust belt states (can we also please talk about how effed up the electoral college is?)



For the record, while I voted for Bernie in the primary, I was happy to support Hillary in the General. And I'm in a state that went for Hillary by 20 points. If anyone could have afforded to cast a protest vote it was me.

[OnionPatch]

116. Yep. And now apparently we're trolls.

Why can't some members of this board understand that a huge segment of the Democratic Party supports and admires Bernie Sanders?

I hope this kind of Bernie bashing is limited to this board because if Bernie supporters are pushed out of the Democratic Party, we're doomed.

[Demsrule86]

117. Supports him for what? He will not be a candidate in 2020

[OnionPatch]

119. I support the way he champions progressive values.

He's always been a hero of mine. And I am far from being alone.

[Demsrule86]

121. And that is fine. I just don't support people who are not running for anything... I

might like them but unless you are running...it really doesn't matter what you think in my opinion.

[cstanleytech]

123. Thats just a handful of people though.

Most accept him and opinions just fine but personally I do kinda wish he would
get off the bench and formally join the party because if he did that his opinion on what the party itself should do would probably carry far more weight than it does with him refusing to join the party and yet offering his opinion on what it needs to do.

[YoungDemCA]

132. "Joining the party"- what does that even mean?

The Democratic Party is not like the Labour Party in the UK, for example, which actually is a powerful organization with an official party membership who pay dues and recruit candidates for office. The Democratic Party is far more decentralized with all the state and local affiliates. So you'll have to clarify what you mean by "joining the party."

[cstanleytech]

133. It means what I said which is he stops registering as an independant and registers as

a Democrat.
I suspect had he done that even a few years before he announced his intention to run in the 2016 election that he might have gotten even more support and been able to defeat Hillary however he decided against that and thus paid a price for it.

[YoungDemCA]

134. Vermont has no party registration. nt

[cstanleytech]

135. I mean registering with the party as member, sheesh.

[YoungDemCA]

136. Again, there is no official Democratic Party membership.

nt