General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSanders' office confirmed he did not campaign for Ossoff.
samnsara
(17,634 posts)brooklynite
(94,703 posts)PatsFan87
(368 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)What makes this district different?
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article144222089.html
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article144222089.html
brooklynite
(94,703 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Do you think Sanders's endorsement was a factor in the defeat? Are you saying Sanders should stay away from Georgia because he'll hurt rather than help? I don't think that's true.
brooklynite
(94,703 posts)...and likely wouldn't have in Georgia. He wouldn't turn out progressives (if they weren't worked up by Trump's election, nothing else would have had an impact), and his track record in the GA Presidential Primary (28-71) suggests he doesn't have much appear to middle of the road voters.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Not to mention, how many deep South states did the Clinton team send Sanders to -- in the general election, he went where they they sent him.
PS Where is your post asking where Bill and Hillary Clinton are? Sanders has a job that requires he spend time in both VT and DC.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Bill and Hillary are doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. The Obamas are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. If they are working for the party, they doing so behind the scenes. They are not muddying up the waters by getting in the way of the new party leadership.
In a new leadership position that was specially created for him by the Democratic party, Sanders has a duty. I don't know whether any candidate specifically courted him, but I'm not sure why that should be a precondition of his doing a job he actively sought and willingly accepted.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Because there is no Outreach Committee (or correlative committee arm) for congressional Democrats, I think it's safe to assume that Sanders is in charge of all outreach. He certainly seems to think so.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/16/senate-democrats-tap-bernie-sanders-lead-outreach/93960822/
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)To some, yes.
To others, perhaps not.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Lots of variation on a micro level.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Georgias 6th District is made up of parts of three counties Cobb, DeKalb and Fulton and those parts differ significantly from one another. The Cobb section of Georgia 6 has the largest share of white voters (at 76 percent) and is the most Republican; Trump carried that part of Cobb by 15 points. The DeKalb section of Georgia 6 has the largest share of black voters (at 16 percent) and is the most Democratic; Clinton won it by 19 points. Fulton provided about half the districts vote in the 2016 presidential election, and the registered voters in the Fulton portion of Georgia 6 are 64 percent white and 12 percent black. Trump won the 6th Districts section of Fulton by 3 points.
PatsFan87
(368 posts)Republicans, probably not.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)or Senator Sanders from appearing with Thompson.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Maybe except for the ones in Georgia?
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Which is probably more valuable. Obviously if the Obamas and Clintons came out for him, it would be a slam dunk as they crossover from politician to celebrity as they are no longer employed as by the government.
LisaM
(27,827 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 19, 2017, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)
In this race. We keep being told he is working to strengthen the Democrats yet he made no effort to being his 'revolution' to swing a few votes. Telling.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)I am no political stradageirist but, I think it was the wrong 'demographic,' for him to be of help.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)This is not why we didn't get beyond 50% threshold. We didn't get there because the DNC did not put our candidate in the best position to get there.
If Sanders showed up and campaigned for him, he still would not have made it.
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)Plenty of folks in the Dem party that could have been involved, how would it be Bernie's fault Ossoff didn't break 50% in an 18 person primary?
BTW - Sanders hasn't been the only one to critique DCCC strategies
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Campaigns weigh whether or not A surrogate will work for a campaign. Given Sanders poor performance in GA they may have opted not to.
Posts like the OP are divisive and an attempt to read things that simply aren't there.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Too subtle a thought, perhaps.
LisaM
(27,827 posts)As I noted earlier, Sanders has been doing the road show with Perez, which has garnered him a lot of accolades on this particular site. Has this accomplished anything? Here, we have an actual race, within grasp, lost by the narrowest of margins, yet the person acclaimed as "the most popular Democratic Senator" is nowhere to be seen. Whose choice? I don't know. I made a call to Sanders' office (partly in response to another post I saw here). If you want to call Ossoff's office and confirm whether help was solicited from Sanders or not, I'd be fascinated to hear the answer (unless it's too subtle for me. )
pangaia
(24,324 posts)in that district learned in the past week or so, my guess is that he would not have been much help there and that Ossoff was running a campaign more geared to those in the northern part of the district...
Tom Rinaldo has a rather long and well thought-out explanation of perhaps why Sanders did not campaign in GA6.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8949746
karynnj
(59,504 posts)However - as you are likely reacting out of the 2016 primaries, were either Clinton out there? In 2014, the Clintons and people allied with them argued that they, unlike Obama, could help in these Southern races including Nunn in Georgia. However, it is not clear they helped her. This is NOT a criticism of HRC and Bill Clinton - any more than of Obama, Biden or Sanders -- none of whom went to Georgia. My guess is that if the candidate thought they could have helped, he would have asked and I bet - if the timing worked - any of them was pretty likely to have gone.
PS Sanders campaigned where the Clinton team sent him in 2016, did they send him to Georgia, which at one time they thought in play.
I do know that some protest groups that were allied to Sanders were involved in raising money for him. The DCCC thought the race hopeless. It was activists on the left who raised the large amount of money he got.
Sienna86
(2,149 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)"I do know that some protest groups that were allied to Sanders were involved in raising money for him. The DCCC thought the race hopeless. It was activists on the left who raised the large amount of money he got."
If so, I don't think your assessment is accurate.
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/02/23/the-democratic-cavalry-is-headed-to-tom-prices-turf/
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)He could have helped raise funds without making much noise but that would have cut into his resources.
KPN
(15,649 posts)Where was the DNC in Thompson's run in Kansas? Aren't they similar situations?
Come on folks. This stuff is about as useful as a flat tire.
monmouth4
(9,709 posts)flamingdem
(39,319 posts)Bernie certainly is helping bring in new voters, we need that.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)And since he is not a 'Democrat,' as we are constantly reminded.......
monmouth4
(9,709 posts)Sienna86
(2,149 posts)And he espouses all the ideals and values I cherish.
monmouth4
(9,709 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Norbert9
(494 posts)OnionPatch
(6,169 posts)It sickens me. I've been a Dem my whole (long) life and have been following Bernie throughout his career. He is one of the most principled politicians I have ever known and has stood up for progressive values faithfully. The primaries are over and this prolonged whining by the sore-winners at this site is really starting to get on my last nerve.
Baitball Blogger
(46,756 posts)to capitalize on this wound.
Look guys, he's watching. Stop giving him ammunition.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)I'm getting so tired of signing in here and seeing the primary fights over and over
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)I really get tired of seeing this shit nearly every time I come here. I wanted Bernie but when that was OVER I firmly supported and voted for Hillary. Bernie's good for the country. I'm very glad he's around and still active. I've been a Democrat since the day I was born and will be for the rest of my life, but I really don't give a flying rat's ass that Sanders is an Independent. I like what he does.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Hillary beat Sanders easily in that district in the primaries.
She did not campaign for Ossoff either, and Ossoff said he
voted for HRC.
ATL Ebony
(1,097 posts)flor-de-jasmim
(2,125 posts)Why is it, that time after time it is Bernie's feet who are held to the fire when Democrats don't win elections. He has done a lot more for democratic causes than many card-carrying members of the Democratic Party. People act as though he, singlehandedly, can be the voice of reason and power in any election anywhere in the country, and if he can't or won't go, somehow it is his fault if the Democratic candidate loses.
It sounds to me as though he has been holding down two full-time jobs, one as an active Senator proposing progressive legislation, the other doing his best to strengthen progressive causes around the country.
There are a lot of Democratic critters at the local, state and national levels who need to get off their duffs first.
*end of rant*
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)Theres also support from the left-leaning Daily Kos website, which so far has raised nearly $1 million for Ossoff.
Thats painted something of a bulls-eye on Ossoffs back. No leading GOP contender has directly confronted him, but the National Republican Congressional Committee painted the Democrat as a far-left Bernie Sanders guy. (Ossoff, for his part, said he backed Hillary Clinton.)
Justice
(7,188 posts)jump into that one.
I don't read OP as slamming Sanders for not helping Ossoff, rather I read it more to point that he didn't and perhaps there are good reasons he didn't. Maybe we should have a little more faith in the DNC and in Sanders to make the right judgments about where to jump in and where to quietly support from afar.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)GA and did what was right to assist the candidates in the way needed. That could have included not lending vocal and/or financial support.
The only thing that bothers me though is that OR and it seems like Bernie are only supporting those who either endorsed/voted for Bernie in the primary or declare themselves to be "Berniecrats". I think that is self-serving and does not help Democrats overall.
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)...of course even a Narcissist like Trump was willing to lend a hand to those supporting him. In contrast, Bernie will throw up the excuse that he is an independent.
I always thought a movement needed many people, rather than just an icon and many followers.
Greybnk48
(10,171 posts)I don't get why you posted this? Did Al Franken go there and campaign? Chuck Schumer? Where was Hillary? Why single out Bernie who WAS out with Perez?
demmiblue
(36,875 posts)there would have been just as many OP's/comments disparaging him for it.
It is truly bizarre... especially going to these lengths.
Greybnk48
(10,171 posts)R B Garr
(16,973 posts)and claiming they alone will be saviors for the party as he is doing.
In reality, there is no reason that he couldn't have used his social media twitter machine to write something positive about the Southern race. He is the one who is insisting that Democrats are out of touch elitists. This just looks like sour grapes on his part because the South went for Clinton. He is helping the Montana congress race and called the candidate "populist" because Montana voted for him.
He is just continuing the geographical divisiveness based on whether a certain state/region voted for him. He recently called coastal cities New York, San Francisco "liberal elitists". Enough is enough with his divisive crap.
Greybnk48
(10,171 posts)He arguing to not close our party to independents.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)anti-Democrat types to sow more division. They were anti-Hillary. That is the now-documented, proven history of it. Rachel Maddow has done multiple segments on this proven fact.
I was never anti-Hillary, so your smear is misplaced and actually uninformed as to the Russian's targets.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)when there was pretty much blood in the water for the DNC/DCCC/Tom Perez after the Kansas election.
And given how much Bernie stuff gets posted here daily, including the same damn poll and every single interview and article that pops up on a Bernie google alert, why are folks acting like DU doesn't revolve around his daily schedule/every word be they positive or negative?
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)But I can see why some people might feel the way that you do. YMMV as people say;
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/04/06/democrat-jon-ossoff-raises-8-million-in-georgia-special-election/100122138/
LisaM
(27,827 posts)I was just curious, given that Bernie has supposedly been out there pounding the pavement with Perez, how much, if any, effort he'd made in this tight race. Point taken that Perez may not have, either. I just think it's all very complicated.
Me.
(35,454 posts)of candidates, myself included. Are we going to just accept defeat before even trying? Now if those 2 are going to tour the country claiming to bring Dems together there better be more than lip service from both of them.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)really needs to stop. Hillary Clinton has more free time these days, did she support or go out on the stump for Ossoff? Probably not. Should she be bashed for it? Of course not. President Obama has a lot of free time these days. Did he campaign for Ossoff? Are we criticizing him for not campaigning? No.
This constant picking and picking and nitpicking on any of our candidates is exhausting. If Bernie feels he can best help liberal causes by tag teaming with Perez then that is what he should do. If Hillary wants to sit back that's what she should do. If Obama wants to vacation, that's what he should do.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Bernie keeps putting himself in the game.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)if he didn't campaign for Ossoff which is what everyone here is complaining about. It seems to me that his "game" is trying to increase the size of the D tent to bring in more people. Only the purists on this site seem to think that is a problem.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Interviews and scolds about what the Dems need to do and what they're doing wrong. If he's not a Dem, as he says and I take him at his word, then how is it his business what the party does. And it has nothing to do with 'purity', such a silly thing for people to keep saying. You can't be half in and half out, you're either are or not. As for divisiveness, the criticism seems to always start with him. And why, I ask, are DEms expected to like his less than flattering comments and be quiet about them.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)Ds and Is have a lot in common and should be aligning against the much greater threat that is the R. Why shouldn't the Ds and Is work together? Mathematically speaking if we do this we would trounce the Rs.
Me.
(35,454 posts)There is quite a bit to said for that. But it has to be a positive relationship. And respect for the Dems wouldn't hurt. The Dems need to make changes but one I don't see happening is open primaries. I believe I agree with the idea that if you want to participate you have to commit to the relationship.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)I live in California and am not actually a member of the D party. I'm a "decline to state." That being said, I appreciate the fact that I am able to vote in the D primary and have for the past 20+ years. I believe that R primaries are actually closed and not that I care, but I think it hurts them overall.
I understand the argument that Ds should be able to choose their D candidate, I really do. But in my opinion elections should be as open and inclusive as possible because as we have seen, voter suppression is mostly targeted at Ds and to all of our horror seems always to work to the benefit of Rs.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)voted for him. He is not a uniter.
None of the people you mentioned have placed themselves in a savior position as he has, but since he has, he is being scrutinized and he is not actually fighting for Democrats except what suits him. ALL of the people you mentioned have campaigned for other Democrats far more than Bernie ever has.
Bernie is about Bernie. Still.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)Come on. That is such a ridiculous statement. And an equally ridiculous counter argument would be that Hillary has always been about Hillary.
Bernie is an "I" and as far as I can tell has made no claim to the contrary. He affiliates with Ds because he is in agreement with most D positions. Where he differs he makes no beans about it. What is wrong with that? And I fail to see what is wrong with helping the Corporate Ds move a little more to the left where I feel we should be.
D's have always bragged about having the bigger tent but there seems to be a lot of Ds on this site who are more about party purity instead. The only way we are going to be able to overcome R gerrymandering for the next several years is to make the D tent as large as possible.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)That's pretty much exactly what he has said. He places himself in the savior position by saying those things, yet he picks and chooses his battles to target those areas/regions that voted for him. His strategy is obviously not a universal embracing of Democrats.
And he is the one bashing Democrats about their message, so he has obviously put himself in charge of the purity standards. Even calling people "corporate D's" shows the divisiveness of his message. His recent statements about coastal cities being "liberal elitists" also show how he applies his divisive standards. It's more about growing *his* views, not necessarily the Democratic party.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)remaking a party with being a savior? I guess I just differ in what I see because what I see is a guy who has a core set of policy issues and wants to try to influence the party that is in the better position of implementing those issues, ie Universal Healthcare, free college tuition, higher wages better paying jobs, etc. Now I live along the coast in So Cal and have to be honest with you in that I've never heard Sanders call me a liberal elitist. On the other hand, I've certainly heard being called that by most Repuke candidates.
What I also see is that for some time and for whatever reason the Ds have slowly but steadily move their policy positions to the right which are not traditional D positions. I also see more and more Ds prioritizing capital over labor and to me that is also a problem - hence the name Corporate Ds. That all being said Repukes present a clear and present danger to all of us and the fight should be against them not this endless internal bickering about Bernie Sanders. Ds have some wonderful leaders, and some amazing up and comers and we should in whatever capacity support them.
Perhaps Bernie felt that involving himself in the Georgia 6th at this early stage might not be beneficial but now that we have the two runoff candidates he will become more involved in trying to convince more moderate or independent Rs see the utter batshit that is their Repuke bretheren and either stay the frack home in June or pull the lever for Ossoff. Sometimes the long game is the better game to play.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)The cities he mentioned are all coastal, and they all went for Clinton. Your observation about being called that by Repuke candidates is why his comments are so divisive. His comments are exactly how Rush Limbaugh describes liberals, so you are correct that they are RW talking points.
And, yes, it is obvious he has put himself in the position of being a guru, savior, whatever you want to call it. That is really common knowledge at this point, as we can see by his tour with Perez, etc. He hasn't been respectful in how he characterizes Democrats, so he hasn't earned that same consideration from me. Sorry.
There still isn't an excuse for him to at least have shown some social media support for the Southern candidate. It would have gone a long way towards unity considering how he insulted the South back in 2016 after he lost there. His focus so far is on candidates/regions that have voted for him or fit his "populist" image. Not a very universal strategy.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)going for Hillary and I was very happy to cast my vote for her as well.
And I googled your terms and the first five results were from the Washingtonexaminer.com Mashable.com, democraticunderground, modernliberals.com and forum.slowtwitch.com. Of this list I only peruse DU and I don't know anything about all the other sites or their reputation.
As for the comment itself, I recall a comment made by candidate Obama during the 2008 election something along the lines of "they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations" and Hillary and the Repukes got their panties all twisted up in knots. It was nuts. But the statement has some truth just like there is some truth in the term "coastal elite" or what they used to like to say when I lived in Chicago "limosine liberal."
I also recall candidate Clinton in 2008 saying something along the lines "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California," when referring to why she didn't drop out of the primary. And people went nuts, rightly so, about that too.
I guess I just see the candidates as people, not heros or saviors or anything else. They say stupid things, they do stupid things, they say great things, they do great things, etc. etc. etc. But I certainly do no see BS through the same angry glasses that you are looking through.
Orrex
(63,220 posts)Surely you were aware of the Messianic memes circulating during his primary run, the ones explicitly likening him to Christ?
Yes, his supporters at the time were quick to dismiss these images as jokes, but often they'd add something to the effect of "but the point is valid."
My less-than-glowing posts about Sanders tend to get hidden, so read this one quick before it vanishes.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)And it seems to me that with each primary season it gets worse and worse. 2008's Puma vs Obama were pretty intense but 2016's Hillary vs Bernie were epic. Before that we were just fighting Jr. Bush. And while I enjoy reading the vitriolic but passionate posts from each side, at the end of the day I can only make up my own mind based on who I think will do the better job. And quite frankly I would never place blind faith in a single person. Every candidate had strengths and every candidate had flaws. However, 45 is the true enemy and that is what we should be focusing on.
Sorry to hear about all you hidden posts. I like the free-for-all so unless the poster was making an actual threat, I voted to let a post stay.
Orrex
(63,220 posts)I took myself out of the jury pool shortly after the switch to the new "improved" format, which I find overly restrictive and poorly suited to the task at hand.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)WoonTars
(694 posts)Which is to say, not at all. And yet Hillary is not criticized??
Very strange.
LisaM
(27,827 posts)In the past, she's been on the ground for Democrats much more than Bernie has (examples: she's campaigned for Patty Murray, Jay Inslee, and Mark Schuette to my first-hand knowledge, which Bernie did not), but anyone who supported her has had to listen to, ad nauseum, post mortems on how she blew the race. She's been pushed aside by those people, while Bernie has been venerated (just open up DU at any point, and count the times his name appears in an OP versus hers).
Given that, it wouldn't be too much of a leap to assume that his endorsement or participation would have been considered an asset by the campaign, while Hillary's endorsement would not currently matter or maybe even hurt. If not, that's all fine, but some people seem to want to have it both ways. I simply called his office to ascertain his level of participation, if any.
WoonTars
(694 posts)...
LisaM
(27,827 posts)Certain other people have, and they were MIA during this campaign. As someone else pointed out, not even a Tweet on behalf of Ossoff.
WoonTars
(694 posts)...
MFM008
(19,818 posts)everything helps.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)that says candidates for President must be active members of the party for at least five years.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)If I recall, we used to mock Repuke loyalty oaths. And we are seeing just how horrible things are when you put party over country. Ds need not be this insecure. We have (for the most party) excellent policy positions and some great up and coming leaders. If an equally good person who just happens to not have a D after his or her name wants to join in why the hell would we turn that person away? Diversity is our strength and this should apply to our candidates as well. If our policy positions mesh then why would we fight so hard to exclude them. This is crazy.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... maybe I was just expecting too much. One thing I've learned in life is that if you keep your expectations low, then you'll rarely be disappointed. (It's not always easy to do, but it's true nevertheless.)
klook
(12,164 posts)Frankly, an endorsement from Bernie Sanders would probably have been kryptonite in that district. Remember, this is a district that elected Tom Price to Congress SEVEN straight times. His predecessor in that seat was Republican Johnny Isakson, currently the slightly less horrifying of our two Georgia U.S. Senators.
That is a semi-affluent north Atlanta district that is maybe starting to lean a little more purplish shade thanks to changes in the electorate there (and repulsion to Donald Trump), but it's by no means a progressive stronghold!
I doubt seriously that anybody in the campaign or the DCCC gave the idea of a Sanders endorsement for Ossoff more than a second's thought, which is fortunate -- because, as much as I admire Sanders's policy positions, Ossoff is better off without that endorsement.
Let's make a list of EVERY Democratic Party politician that didn't campaign for him, and then let's demand they all resign as they're OBVIOUSLY pro-Trump and trying to destroy the Democratic Party...
Oh wait, you mean this is just selective outrage designed to create animosity towards the most popular and most trusted politician in America, who is currently working every day to help Democrats alongside the chairman of the party?
Well, in that case, f&ck off.
This ginned up outrage shit is driving people away from the party.