The Democrats should go left in 2018/2020. But not for political reasons. For tactical reasons.

[DetlefK]

The political spectrum is a circle.

The far-right and the far-left are both anti-establishment. In both Fascism and Communism the social hierarchy of class and wealth gets replaced by a society where the economy and the rulers become one:
* In Fascism, the industry melds with the rulers in a top-down-approach. The rulers control the means of production via controlling the owners.
* In Communism, the industry melds with the rulers in a bottom-up-approach. The rulers disappropriate the owners and control the means of production via controlling the worker.



For all the cheating, for all the racism, there is no denying that Trump won because he harvested the anti-establishment outrage that the establishment-GOP had cultivated to fight Obama.
Except that the Trump-voters are very slowly realizing that the spoiled billionaire brat did not turn into an anti-establishment President.



The anti-establishment sentiment is still there and it won't go away: Trump is a fake. Even if he wanted to, he's too incompetent to deliver policies to help the little guy. Trump cannot deliver the "pro-little-guy"-policies that he promised and that the people are demanding.

The political spectrum is a circle.

The left can harvest the anti-establishment sentiment created by the GOP, just like Trump did.
Tell the people that they deserve that their browser-history stay secret.
Tell the people that they deserve healthcare.
Tell the people that they deserve infrastructure.
Tell the people that they deserve education.
Tell the people that they deserve a good wage.
Tell the people that they deserve vacations.
Tell the people that they deserve better protections.

The Democrats should promise the voters what the voters demand: "pro-little-guy"-policies.



Trump's promises came across as trustworthy by him not giving a fuck.

To give their policies more credibility, the Democrats should stop giving a fuck as well.

[lies]

1. Two things

1. Your definition of communism is a hit strange. There's not rules in a functioning communist system. Not in the way there is a democracy of fascist state.

2. It can't just be promises. What makes people upset is not that pols are promising too little, it's that their rhetoric and promises don't match their actions. What the left doesn't need to do is make empty promises.

[DetlefK]

3. Everybody knew Trump's promises are impossible to fulfill and the voters didn't care.

You cannot deport all illegal immigrants because it would hurt the US-economy badly.
You cannot bring back coal-jobs in a free market-system because it was the free market who killed the coal-industry.
You cannot build a wall at the border because it would be fucking expensive and useless.
You cannot have 4% economic growth without MASSIVE investments and MASSIVE demand. (see China...)
You cannot have cheap healthcare for all without regulations and subsidies.

Everybody knew that.

Everybody told the Trump-voters that.

Except that they didn't care.

Trump promised them pie-in-the-sky and they were stupid enough to fall for it. What makes you think they won't fall for unrealistic promises a second time?

[lies]

5. I don't understand?

Are you suggesting Dems deliberately lie because you think voters are suckers?

[DetlefK]

9. What I'm saying is that the voters don't care about being lied to.

Oh, they care about being lied to after they voted. But they don't care about being lied to before they vote.

As harsh and as mean that sounds: Yes. Some people are just suckers. Trump accepted that, he behaved accordingly, and that's how he won.

The Trump-voters dislike the "elites" for looking down on them as country-pumpkins. And they dislike it even more that the Democrats are now rubbing it in and calling them stupid for falling for the huckster Trump. But the fact is that these people do not vote for policies that would be good for them because of the alternate-universe the GOP and Fox News have built.
These people do not vote by brain. They vote by gut.
They voted for Trump despite all the lies and racism and pussy-grabbin' because they vote by gut.

These voters don't care about being lied to as long as their gut tells them to ignore everything and to just go along.

THAT'S what the Democrats should take into account with their messaging.

[lies]

10. Please be slightly more clear

When you say "take into account" are you suggesting that Dems lie to voters like Trump?

[OnDoutside]

17. !00% agree with what you've written, the Democratic Party needs to

simplify the message it gives to middle class Republican voters, and be damn sure that they can deliver on that message. Do that and they can make real progress.

[DetlefK]

19. Yes.

The Republicans have been lying for 17+ years. And what did they get?

They stole the 2000 election via a Supreme Court decision so outrageous that the Supreme Court added the caveat that this decision shall not be used as legal precedent ever.

They won the 2004 election by a razor-thin margin amidst accusations of tampered voting-machines.

They control Congress until at least 2020 because they gerrymandered the hell out of districts because they gamed the 2010 Census.

They stole a Supreme Court seat by inventing a precedent that simply doesn't exist.

And then they won the 2016 election by running a know-nothing billionaire as a smart blue-collar guy, with campaign-promises that simply cannot be fulfilled.

And what downsides has the GOP suffered for this?
The White House is theirs. The Supreme Court is theirs. Their majority in Congress is untouchable until at least 2020, no matter how badly the voters turn against them.



Politics is a dirty business and lying works.
Half the country HATES the Democrats due to the constant bombardment of lies via Fox News.
If you want to win the votes of US-voters, lie. That's the contemporary state of US-politics. Lying is normal. Fake News are the new normal.
Lies are a part of the game.

[HopeAgain]

21. If that is true, then I'm, out

Once we sacrifice our morals, what are we working for?

[DetlefK]

30. The Republicans are ruling uncontested, but it's nice to know that your morals are intact.

[HopeAgain]

34. Lies lead to lack of accountability;

lack of accountability leads to lack of honesty and self-dealing. Maybe you like the Castro Regime?

[DetlefK]

39. I'm sure, the GOP is impressed with you trying to be honorable.

You don't like it. I don't like it. But lies are an inherent part of the game of politics. If you try to play politics without lies, that's like playing Poker without bluffing: It's possible, but in the long term you will always lose.

[lies]

22. Thanks for clarity - but I'm not sure advocating dishonesty is good.

Don't get me wrong, it's not about its effectiveness... Lying is obviously effective. To some degree.

But at the same time if you narrow the difference between the parties what's to stop people from simply voting for the lie they prefer?

And what's to say that lie won't come from Republicans?

If every American ends up thinking both parties are utterly dishonest, how does that specifically help Democrats?

Anyway, I won't be voting for people that I think are deliberately lying to me. And I'm not the only one.

[DetlefK]

31. People already DO vote for the lie they prefer. And people already DO believe that both parties lie.

Trump won the republican primary by running against the republican establishment. "He tells it like it is."
Trump won the election by running against some nebulous establishment in general. "He tells it like it is."

There already are voters who do believe that both parties lie. That was the whole point of Trump's election. Everybody lies, except Trump, because Trump is not a politician...

There are more than enough people who voted for Trump while holding their nose. They knew there was something fishy about him, but they voted for him anyways. Seems like they really wanted to believe the lies.

[beachbum bob]

2. going more left won't help, the real problem is convincing voters that democrats can actually FIGHT

for change.....too many whiny-ass democratic politicians....

[HAB911]

4. more than a few

right here on DU

[Demsrule86]

6. What you suggest are Democratic ideas and plans that the big tent party

agrees with year in and year out. It has nothing to do with anti-establishment folks what ever that means. I love how some take long standing Democratic ideas and goals and pretend like they just discovered them...why it is the holy grail of politics...no many of us have long supported such ideas. What we need to do is field candidates using a 50 state strategy who can win in a particular state. We can capitalize on Trump's unpopularity and stop Trump cold.

[Hortensis]

38. +1000, "pretend they just discovered" Democratic ideas and goals.

And, let's remember American chose Democrat in 2016.

More importantly, though, with Democracy threatened by various dangerous right wing factions and also by some on the left, including rightfully resentful but dangerously ignorant "populists" eager to attack "the establishment" indiscriminately, we need to value what we have, to protect it so that we still have it to improve as necessary when we can.

[Demsrule86]

40. I absolutely agree with you...

The Democratic party is a great party and has done much for the country...including health care after waiting 100 years.

[Hortensis]

41. Democratic beliefs and goals as their "holy grail." :)

They reject Obamacare because Democrats made it happen and Democrats are corrupt conservatives; therefore, it's bad.

The right rejects Obamacare because the Democrats made it happen, and Democrats are corrupt liberals; therefore, it's bad, but they'll keep it if they can change the name.

[Progressive dog]

7. If Democrats ever become the liars you propose they be

then they won't be Democrats. Maybe, they could call themselves the "I don't give a F---" party.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. Straight on. +1. . . . nt

[NJProgressive]

8. The Democrats should go left in 2018/2020 But not for political reasons. For tactical reasons.

I believe also that the Democratic Party should move to the left in 2018 & 2020 they just lost 2 elections in a row by being the usually corporatist establishment democrats. Many progressives didn't show up to vote because they feel the party isn't listening to them. If we look at many of the polls on a issue by issue basis we would see that the majority of the american people want a progressive agenda being implemented so they should go to the left by listening to the majority of the people. It just seems as of late the Democratic Party hasn't learned anything.

[JHan]

12. The "establishment" and "corporatist" vs progressive dichotomy

is a false dichotomy.

Absent in your analysis is the perniciousness of gerrymandering and voter suppression - that's what Democrats should aim their sights at, we haven't. We need to become the party of local government again. All politics is local.

The so called establishment party is not the corporatist party that wants to change the capital gains tax, wants to reduce corporate tax to 15 percent, wants to reduce taxes on the rich, and doesn't want the sort of tax reform that closes loopholes - that corporate party are the republicans.

And if progressives don't show up to vote, that's on them.

(Welcome to DU as well btw )

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. +1. "Globalism" is another false chimera. . . nt

[NurseJackie]

15. Oh, brother. This again?

[delisen]

20. Might help if you list ways President Obama did not listen to them?

Otherwise we cannot tell whether the dissatisfaction among the Trump voters was due misunderstanding or true opposition.

There seems to have been misunderstanding about the ACA among Trump voters.

Were people who consider themselves progressives discouraged by the Democratic administration's backing of the TPP? President Obama backed the TPP. Was his message about why he backed and promoted it dawned out by mass media? or did the discouraged progressives understand that message and reject it?

I noticed over those years that anti-TPP writers seemed to focus on the jobs issue? was the president's reasoning informed by the geopolitics of the Pacific

Hadn't the Democratic Party moved to the left in 2008? Didn't progressives back Obama? What happened?

The Democratic Party lost seats around the country in 2010--after the passage of the ACA. Was there a connection? How could the massive losses from 2010 forward be avoided or countered?

Is there a progressive establishment? Is it discouraging voters ?

I would love to hear well reasoned arguments from people who consider themselves discouraged progressives.
When you say corporatist establishment Democrats--iit seems like just a label.

What does corporatists really mean?

The TPP--most Americans said in 2016 that they didn't know enough about it to be for or against.

Specifics seem to be want is needed. What specifics are you suggesting?

[IronLionZion]

33. Welcome to DU!

[Progressive dog]

35. The Democrats are a political party

not a tactical party.

[gopiscrap]

42. I agree, welcome to DU

[samnsara]

43. we won this last election... the GOP stole it thru dirty tricks...Im 100% convinced.

...not sure we have to move more left.. just have to learn how to play dirty and not be ashamed to do it. We are TOO NICE!

[world wide wally]

11. What Democrats do need to do is to shoot people straight and not hedge on stating their ideas

in a feeble attempt to get 100% of the vote.
That ain't gonna happen anyway.

[Wounded Bear]

18. "Shoot people straight"....?

you may want to edit that line.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. Browser hist., healthcare, infrastructure, educ., wages, protectionss are not exclusively left issue

[OnDoutside]

24. Exactly. I was listenting to the WNYC Indivisible podcast about America's

Shrinking Middle Class, and it hit the 3 top issues in Middle Class America

Cost of Education
Wage stagnation/lower taxes for the rich
Health costs

http://www.wnyc.org/story/americas-middle-class-indivisible-podcast/

It's a very interesting podcast, I would recommend.

However, the Democratic Party should be publicly hitting the Republican Party with a sledgehammer over these 3 issues and that the Reps intend to gut the middle class of all parties.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

25. Yup. Of course historically, it is the liberals who gained wages, days off, and benefits for workers

... All those are things that Republican voters benefit from. There is a screed about how Joe Republican goes through his day and at every step it is pointed out how he benefits from liberal policy wins over the years, like product safety regulations for his toothpaste.

[OnDoutside]

27. Clearly you are so right about that. With the Republican Party on the backfoot at the moment, NOW is

the time to lay the groundwork for the midterms. It would be a bit like the Life of Brian's "What did the Romans ever do for us ?" ! They need to be taken on in Red States, ferociously, so local tv carries other points of view.

[Fast Walker 52]

26. It's basically the Bernie Sanders message, and it did resonate

However, I think the US media is much more receptive to rightwing populism (fascism) than to leftwing (socialist) candidates. This why I was leery of the idea that Bernie would have won, because he hadn't gotten the full media treatment. Trump at least had FoxNews, but Dems don't have anything comparable.

I also am not sure about purposely being dishonest. I think we should be as honest as possible.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

28. No.

We don't do that.

Remember that Clinton won the popular vote because she told the truth.

When we say something we mean it. We go to hell and back to make it so. WE take the high high road. WE face dragons to win.

To lie like a CONservative worm is NOT in our D.N.A. We start playing that sick game we will loose the United States.

What is needed is some good old, get out into the red states, and canvas! Show them what we are wanting to do and how it benefits them.

So NO, you are so WRONG!

[ananda]

29. How about it's just the right thing to do.

..

[beam me up scottie]

32. I don't think we need to lie to win.

We need a 50 state strategy where we focus on messages tailored to the concerns of each region. And we need to hammer it home.

The left can harvest the anti-establishment sentiment created by the GOP, just like Trump did.
Tell the people that they deserve that their browser-history stay secret.
Tell the people that they deserve healthcare.
Tell the people that they deserve infrastructure.
Tell the people that they deserve education.
Tell the people that they deserve a good wage.
Tell the people that they deserve vacations.
Tell the people that they deserve better protections.

The Democrats should promise the voters what the voters demand: "pro-little-guy"-policies.

We can do that and prove it, there's no need to lie. This is why introducing legislation for single payer universal healthcare, minimum wage increases, college free tuition, etc aren't useless gestures. Of course these bills won't pass a Republican controlled house and senate - but they will prove that we're willing to to fight for the people and that Republicans don't give a damn about them.

We just need to keep reminding them of the difference.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

36. +1

We always have been , are, and always better than the lying right.

[phleshdef]

37. No one should go any direction for political or tactical reasons. People should be honest about...

...what they really believe and let people vote.