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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy thoughts on Asian doctor forcibly removed from United flight (VIDEO)
This story about an Asian doctor forcibly removed from an overbooked flight is upsetting on many levels. If this isn't an example of a corporate police state, I am not sure what is. I will explain how this should be handled. Was this random or ... ?
https://egbertowillies.com/2017/04/10/asian-doctor-violently-removed-united-flight/
4139
(1,893 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)He and his wife had tickets they paid for - he had patients to see today.
Fuck United Airlines
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)trueblue2007
(17,237 posts)jeanmarc
(1,685 posts)Bad topic titles, then no subject matter. No links.
And yes, this doctor did not deserve to get brained and pulled off a flight. He was already on the flight.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)Those responses have been the most baffling.
We've had some pro authoritarian nutters come out of the woodwork on this one.
malaise
(269,157 posts)womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)guys sounds like he could have a concussion too - sounds confused.
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/just-kill-me-disturbing-new-video-shows-removed-united-passenger-with-his-face-covered-in-blood/
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,435 posts)I wonder if that level of skepticism would be applied to a white male?
brooklynite
(94,695 posts)They're a private company making a (poorly thought out) business decision, and there are alternative airlines competing for your business who will stand to benefit. We now have five national airlines, plus regional carriers.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)So throwing seniors around is "a poorly thought out business decision."
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)Disgusting behavior on United's part. We are heading for Carolina for a family reunion this August...brothers, and sister...kids etc. It is about nine hours. We have decided to drive. No way, I am putting up with this shit. And I heard now they charge you for every bag, we are just victims to be robbed. I would rather drive, and I hate driving.
brooklynite
(94,695 posts)...the reason you're now being charged for bags, and not getting meals is that the airlines have cut base fares to the bone to remain competitive.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)other bullshit, you are paying almost as much. We need to regulate our airline industry.
4139
(1,893 posts)LakeArenal
(28,835 posts)Being dragged around by the Black Shirts and bleeding all over the other passengers....
Sheesh 4139... I guess you'd know a AH when you see one...
4139
(1,893 posts)He a snott!
mikeysnot
(4,757 posts)would have refused to leave also.
I would be like, here is my counter offer for leaving...
3 first class round trip tickets to Paris and a suite for the night at the Hilton.
NO then fuck your employees.
Blues Heron
(5,939 posts)see how you like it
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)So if anyone says "Fuck You" to you in this post you should report them.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Docreed2003
(16,869 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)Thanks, but no thanks. You're welcome to voluntarily leave your flight for no compensation the next time United has to get itself out of a difficult situation it created. Me, I will fight for regulation that ensures that people are treated with fairness, respect, and dignity.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)to induce a single person to give up their contracted-for seats.
It was incredibly stupid for them to offer only $800 when they knew that if they got no takers, they would be required to pay up to $1325. So by forcing him off the plane, they are out $1325. If they had simply offered $1000 or $1200 or $1300 to the whole plane, they most likely would have gotten a volunteer and had no reason to force anyone off.
Dorian Gray
(13,498 posts)obviously just trolling to get a response.
Ridiculous.
Every single human being who paid for a ticket and had a seat on the airplane would be MIFFED about being asked to leave.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I've looked over a few news stories on this incident, and was getting worried that there weren't any authoritarian types showing up the scold everyone about their civic duty to obey any and every order imposed on them by their betters. Thanks for taking up the slack, and reminding us that when law enforcement is involved, nobody has any rights that are bound to be respected and any resistance means you're just an asshole who deserves whatever's coming to him.
Do we know if the doctor had any outstanding parking tickets or other evidence of law-breaking?
malaise
(269,157 posts)Tanuki
(14,920 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)good response
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)delisen
(6,044 posts)mcar
(42,368 posts)Had he been drinking?
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)and drag them down the aisle after you knock them out
mcar
(42,368 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Yep. Predictable as fuck-all.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I can't believe I'm seeing this kind of crap here!
Kingofalldems
(38,468 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I'm open to discussion if there's a responsible opposing viewpoint, but apparently that's asking too much of the person who alerted.
athena
(4,187 posts)Wow. I really think Russian spies must have invaded this site in an attempt to wreak havoc. I'm glad the system is robust enough, there are enough reasonable members, that the effects are not more obvious. Even the NYT comments on this story are almost uniformly supportive of the poor guy who was kicked off, despite their large number of resident right-wing-nutcase commenters.
Dr. Strange
(25,922 posts)Ah, good times!
dalton99a
(81,566 posts)AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)lapfog_1
(29,219 posts)It stinks to high heaven.
Obvious we live in an Ayn Rand utopia fascist police state now!
But where was the Ayn Rand solution?
United needed the seats for "more important people" (namely another flight crew)... so why didn't the free market decide? $800 wasn't enough... offer more until you get the 4 seats. Simple. No problems with having to bash in the heads of the paying public.
need I add
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)get a free ride someplace...hope he sues the pants off of both United and the police.
mainer
(12,023 posts)and in the midst of the calm conversation, they just grabbed him and pulled him off.
Turbineguy
(37,362 posts)We are not yet used to living in a police state.
For example, my relatives were in Nazi occupied Europe during WWII. They kept a small bag packed by the door, in case they were hauled away in the middle of the night. And obviously they had a pretty shrewd idea what would happen if they resisted.
If I book a reservation on a certain flight, it's because I want to take that one and not another.
Foamfollower
(1,097 posts)Docreed2003
(16,869 posts)I don't care who you are or what your position is or what ethic background you happen to be this episode is a fucking disgusting. I can tell you right now if I had purchased a ticket and was asked to leave the plane because the airline fucked up and I knew I had to be home the next day, I'd be an asshole too. That doesn't justify them knocking him out and dragging him from the plane.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)It's so easy for an almost 70 yr old man and his wife to have to change their plans and catch another flight. Make sure you knock those old folks out when you throw them to the floor. Maybe you can break some bones too - those senior bones break easier.
Sounds like a Margaret Atwood short story.
chillfactor
(7,580 posts)what is with these idiots who seem to pop up now and then on DU with such insanely stupid comments,
jehop61
(1,735 posts)He had a paid ticket. United could have rented a van and driven the crew to Loisville in four hours. Post Trump business practices!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)because the airline was not willing to perform its contractual obligation and had utterly failed in planning.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Have you ever actually read the contract constituting an airline ticket?
Here is the contract:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx
All of UAs flights are subject to overbooking which could result in UAs inability to provide previously confirmed reserved space for a given flight or for the class of service reserved. In that event, UAs obligation to the Passenger is governed by Rule 25.
...
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
Request for Volunteers
UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UAs boarding priority:
Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passengers fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.
UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
If space is available on another Carriers flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon Uniteds sole discretion and the Passengers request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Passenger had already boarded and was safely seated.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I bought tickets from PHL to France and upgraded with points at the check-in counter. I was issued boarding passes for two first class seats. I boarded the plane and there were two people already sitting in the seats we had bought and paid for.
Oddly enough, they had also bought economy tickets and upgraded them with points, and were issued boarding passes for the same two first class seats.
All four of us were on the plane, and all the other seats in first class were taken. So, yeah, we were all "boarded".
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Once I was assured of a refund, I went ahead and reseated in coach, because shit happens. I would never book a flight for the day before a court hearing because I don't expect the weather, crew issues or maintenance issues to accommodate my schedule.
There were tens of thousands of people from Thursday through the weekend who did not get where they were going due to the weather. After a large weather disruption, it's not as if someone throws a switch and everything works normally, because there are crews and equipment which have been stuck in the wrong places, and you have a maximum of two hours between a crew member waking up and getting onto a flight.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)UAL decided to put 4 of its employees on the flight.
sarah FAILIN
(2,857 posts)They should have waited or put their staff on other planes.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Because similar circumstances happen when a flight is not oversold, but due to equipment issues they use a smaller plane.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)It was airline employees flying standby.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)They weren't flying standby for personal travel. They had run out of qualified crew in Chicago, and there was a flight there which wasn't going anywhere without a crew.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)If it was so important to get that flight crew onto the flight, their proper recourse was to up the compensation they were offering, not go Kim Jong Un.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)poor employee planning on their part does not give them the right to rip a person off a plane.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)so United can be sued for breach of contract.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)because they were going to put their own people on.
Warpy
(111,327 posts)and they've always asked for volunteers before they started to seat people.
If he had a seat already, why were the dragging him out of it? This just doesn't make any sense as the story is written. If they wanted him to make room for a VIP, it wouldn't have been in cattle class.
Something else had to be going on.
Tanuki
(14,920 posts)whom they wanted to have on the ground at the destination airport. They weren't ticketed passengers, as would be the typical overbooking situation. Still, the airline could have and most certainly should have made other arrangements to solve their staffing problem.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)first of all ...they say they selected the passenger randomly but did they really? Prove it...and they are going to have to say why these United folks were flying ...what was their purpose? Going to pay and hope it goes away.
Warpy
(111,327 posts)It's going to cost them more than putting their employees on another flight or even another airline would have. Oh, and don't forget the people who are going to book on other airlines because they don't want to be beaten to a pulp because they need to get to work the day after they get home.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)No way I am flying. And I hate driving.
Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)In bizzarro police state that apparently means authorities have the right to beat the shit out of you with no provocation.
Warpy
(111,327 posts)That's usually how they choose people to bump off flights. Pay full price, sit in first class, it will never happen.
The only good coming out of this is that it will cost United a fortune in settlements and lost business and they'll change their stupid policy and shuffle their employees around during off peak times.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)He will win bigly in court.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)I have not seen any explanation as to how this particular passenger was chosen - and what I do see in the video is a poorly dressed Asian man, which hraises suspicions for me in view of recent outrageous treatment of pretty much anyone who isn't white (and some who are) in connection with travel. And particularly since:
I travel fairly frequently and have never seen an overbooking handles AFTER the passengers have boarded.
Why drag someone off the plane, rather than refuse to permit the next one on.
Why not continue to offer higher and higher compensation, until it was worth it to someone
delisen
(6,044 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)It's hard to fathom how you think they are ethically comparable.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Both refused to move from their paid seats despite the rules in effect.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)do you really thing it was a coincidence that the person chosen to be removed, in the first place, and then man-handled enough to at least get a bloody lip out of it, was a poorly dressed Asian man?
Response to 4139 (Reply #1)
Post removed
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)If I paid for a ticket and was already seated on the plane ready and had to work the next morning - yeah I would say no.
They asked for volunteers - not enough volunteered. At no point does that allow someone to physically assault me.
I don't understand how you think it is ok to be physically assaulted when you have done nothing wrong. He paid for his ticket, he boarded a flight, volunteers were asked for, he didn't volunteer and they decided well "randomly" you have to go. He had done nothing to violate his contractual agreement with the airline - he was not disorderly, not violent. He just said no.
spanone
(135,859 posts)Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)paying big time.
Foamfollower
(1,097 posts)Kablooie
(18,638 posts)Second it should be handled with more enticements if a passenger is reluctant.
Third they let him back on so he might have had a valid reason for refusing such as being needed to perform an important operation in the morning.
They didn't try to find why he was refusing.
Fourth the seat was for one of Their own employees. There must be an alternative solution.
This was handled horribly. He wasn't violent or criminal just determined to keep the seat he paid for and has settled down in.
United deserves all the backlash they get.
Dorian Gray
(13,498 posts)now. If you don't, I'm going to get law enforcement to remove you.
If you don't agree, then you're a jerk.
TNLib
(1,819 posts)have the audacity to expect to get the service he paid for.
He must be beaten, bloodied and humiliated.
KT2000
(20,586 posts)IMHO - He was selected BECAUSE he is Asian and they expected him to be compliant according to stereotypes. He knew that and that is why he resisted. White people are so damn condescending to Asian people and what white people do not know is that they carry a wealth of experiences where they have been insulted and ridiculed by white people.
I am white and one of my best friends is from China. I can not believe how she is treated sometimes by ignorant white people. It has gotten worse since rump became prez. My friend is a doctor, daughter of a Chinese high official, who will drop everything to help a person in need, usually white people. She has antenna for helping. She will run off to help someone she sees needs help and I had not even been aware of it.
Over the phone, people sometimes make it difficult for her because of her strong accent, such as giving her false information (on health insurance), or putting the phone down so she only gets dead air. Occasionally she is told to go back to where she came from by old white ladies. One old bigot in the neighborhood assumed she was on welfare when in fact she supports her whole family. He still wanted to report her to the county for having insects in her yard (because she was pesticide free) that might travel to his yard!
BUT - everyone who KNOWS her - LOVES her! White people can be so stupid.
Thanks for letting me vent. It is just that we do not hear much about the prejudice that Asian people face - and that is what the doctor came up against.
Cattledog
(5,917 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)The people of color always go first.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)So, can you tell us why the first two were not minorities and left the plane first?
KT2000
(20,586 posts)examination of the program used to select involuntary removal. Would also like to know why a doctor committed to patient appointments would still be removed from the plane. Would a white doctor have been given accommodation? They certainly could have gone to the next on their "list." Instead they chose to do physical injury to a customer.
Does an article say the first two were not minorities?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UAs boarding priority:
Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passengers fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
KT2000
(20,586 posts)but it does not say how the program makes selections. Obviously couples are selected first by evidence of this event. That might be an unstated policy or would they just take one from each couple? They didn't do that.
It would be good to see how this really operates - are these the only criteria? how many names are delivered - the exact number of seats needed or more? Are crew allowed to make selections from a list?
Are there no more categories of hardship?
If this man is a doctor did they ask if he was a surgeon with surgeries scheduled, was he booked for appointments months out, would his missing his appointments cause undo harm to his patients?
My guess is there is more to this process than the stated policy. By forensic, I meant analyzing the program that makes the selections.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If a complete analysis shows that the selection was by neutral criteria, then what should have happened next?
KT2000
(20,586 posts)he has to get back on time. They needed to hold a discussion with the man and his wife. An evaluation could be made as to his reason. I happen to believe that a doctor needing to make his appointments is a reason to let him stay. His work is as valuable as the flight attendants/pilot that he was being bumped for.
Most of the criteria they use to determine who gets bumped has to do with the amount of travel ($$) the person does, not who and how many are inconvenienced by their action.
United should be responsible enough to schedule their crews' transportation better than this.
If there is a valid reason to remove a passenger, slamming his face into the armrest is not OK. Having knocked the man out, medical personnel such as EMTs should have been called to transport him in a way safer than dragging him down the aisle. His neck could have been broken. No evaluation of his condition was made.
If inducing pain by twisting his hand back, which is part of the protocol, was used that is wrong too. That could cause serious disability for a surgeon and others who work with their hands.
Post 9/11, airlines have taken a position of authority, backed up with law enforcement officers that appears to be getting out of hand. It looks like they have abandoned practical procedures dealing with their customers and turned to law enforcement to handle their crappy business practices.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I'm going to guess you don't live in an area of the country that was affected by severe weather on Thursday, which caused thousands of cancelled flights and which takes several days to straighten out. Massive flight disruptions in one area don't just affect that area, and the ten hour rest requirement makes it very difficult to get the crews back on schedule.
But what you are saying is that they should have removed someone else from the plane instead of him, correct?
KT2000
(20,586 posts)due to weather.
United handled this in the worst way possible - after everyone was seated?
First of all - it is United's responsibility to get their crews where they needed to go. Rent a small airplane if necessary.
But -
Before boarding they could have explained that due to the weather crisis they needed to get crew to that destination and make their offer to the passengers - at the terminal.
When and if no one responds, and once seated, they should be sensitive to the reasons anyone would have for not leaving the plane. I am willing to bet that this man has a very strong obligation to his patients - beyond what most white American doctors may have.
Personally I would accept his reason and go to the next person who has spent the least amount of money on airline travel. (That's some criteria there!)
Again, question if they would be willing to leave the plane and make a determination of their reason if they say no. Keep going down the list. Take a flipping hour to do it if necessary.
We should all be on guard to preserve humanity in the face of corporate power backed up by law enforcement officers. The doctor was right to not sacrifice his humanity to some faceless corporation that only sees humans as dollar signs.
If no one was willing to leave - rent a freakin plane for the crew.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You know this about him because of his race? Really?
LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)In your opinion it's clear that this was justified. That's nice for you.
Many of us disagree. Is that okay with you?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...is certainly racist.
KT2000
(20,586 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:10 AM - Edit history (1)
a very good friend is a doctor from China. Asian culture and what she calls their traditions are different. This man appears by age to have come from the older traditions. As she explained to me doctors were not considered to be of the upper class and better than others but rather in service to their patients. That means their patients come before anything else, as it is a calling to serve, also they know there are not enough doctors to take care of everyone.
Doctors in China are not wealthy or highly paid.
My friend is shocked by the way doctors here are wealthy and treated as if they are better than other people. Her father was the Minister of Health in China until he died. My friend lived next to hospitals her whole life and the family social circle was doctors. I believe her assessment of the medical community there.
Modern China is becoming more and more like the US so that may change too.
While there are likely white American doctors who share those values, most enjoy the special privileges afforded doctors in this country and do consider themselves above others.
The man's response to the humiliation showed me that he is not the sort to think himself better but more likely his words "kill me" came from a more traditional viewpoint. He will not be the same after this.
Are you seeing this? When they told him to leave - they were telling him he had to abandon his patients - his sacred duty. For no reason other than a refusal to follow orders, United crew saw a need to call the cops!
mopinko
(70,193 posts)random? rly?
Docreed2003
(16,869 posts)But please point in the rule book where the airline has the authority to not only unseat a passenger but knock their ass out and drag them from the plane if they aren't compliant. Watch the video, if you haven't already, it's fucking disgusting!
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)He was kind of saying that he was being singled out because hes a Chinese man when speaking to the manager, who was African-American, Bridges said. You should know what this is like, the man said, according to Bridges. The AP was unable to confirm the passengers identity
dalton99a
(81,566 posts)kydo
(2,679 posts)Its common practice that is dumb and serves no purpose other then to make more cash for the people that already have tons of it. Plus it only applies to the cheep seats. If the practice is to over book then ALL passengers should be subject to the same policies.
What happened to this paying passenger was wrong, and well before security arrived and made the problem worse.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)properly, generally pretty satisfied customers.
What happened here is that United decided to cheap out with the compensation and resorted to authoritarian thug tactics instead.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...and if you are going to have to burn fuel to move empty seats around, and if you know that X% of passengers do not make their booking, then you are going to have to charge X% more for tickets. Consequently, you aren't going to sell any tickets, because people are not going to pay x% more for an airline which has a guaranteed "no overbooking" policy.
But this had nothing to do with overbooking. Flight reservations all over the place were screwed by last week's severe storms.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)From the layover or I would have missed the wedding I was going for. It was very expensive
I wasnt compensated, as.they said i could jave stayed the night in Denver and gone the next morning. The airlines do not consider whether you will make it to an event on time..9nly their costs.
Once, a group of about 10 of us were getting bumped all together, and running around together.
The cheapest tix get bumped first.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]
mainer
(12,023 posts)prior to the "incident" he'd told nearby passengers that he needed to see patients the next day.
randome
(34,845 posts)United had a cascading series of delays and cancellations in the region and needed to get 4 staff members to the plane's destination. Whether that was justified or not, this was not an overbooked flight.
One could easily say that United would have had even MORE outraged passengers in the region if they didn't do something immediately about the delays and staffing situation.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)another airline to get them there on time for their other connections. In a way, this makes it worse. They can't blame it on any kind of customer service procedures. If I paid for that seat and their business model is to throw me out to make up for their delays elsewhere, eff that.
But, this does bring up a question about overbooking. If paid travelers haven't shown up in time to get their seat while the plane is boarding...maybe they are subject to forfeiture. Not sure how the overbooking works exactly.
randome
(34,845 posts)I can understand if extenuating circumstances made the situation complex and difficult but yeah, why not book them on another airline? Could the schedules have been too scattered for that to work?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)R B Garr
(16,973 posts)they found three suckers to leave the plane and let the 4th one who was clearly traumatized go on with the flight he booked, paid for and boarded. At least three employees would have been on time. The business decisions all around are truly bizarre.
This is an interesting glimpse into how the airlines really view passengers, just cattle.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)may have volunteered to take another flight. If the employees who took the seats were needed in order to get another plane or two off the ground perhaps a percentage of the profits from those flight should have gone to the inconvenienced customers.
randome
(34,845 posts)They reached their limit and forced 4 passengers off. Only one threw a temper tantrum about it. The video does not show the police beating him up, either, as some have said. It shows the guy bumping his head on the seats across from him once he lost his grip.
But in a crowded, confining environment like this, things go wrong more easily when force is used.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)Offering a decent price to begin with would have prevented this whole mess. I'm sure they'd prefer the opportunity to offer a good price over being obligated to pay a percentage of their profits. After all, it was their profit off of the flights they needed the employees for that drove them to violate that poor man.
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)by saying no?
He was dragged out of his seat and in the process his head was smacked with enough force to draw blood.
How is this ok? How is this his fault?
The flight was delayed over 2 hours (the staff could have rented a van been halfway to the destination in that time). If I had to work the next day and couldn't afford to lose my job (let's say he wasn't a doctor just an average blue collar worker) or had to get my kids or whatever - I would say no. Does that mean I deserve to get dragged out of my seat? I don't understand - I held up my part of the agreement with the airline - paid for my ticket, showed up and sat down.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)is why they boarded passengers they didn't have seats for.
Overbooking is resolved before you permit someone on the plane. And if you're Southwest, so it might be possible to not have a one-to-one correspondence between seats and bodies, you stop the line before you put the last 4 passengers on.
You don't go on the plane and demand they forfeit their seat because you can't get your act together to count before you board.
randome
(34,845 posts)UA had an 'emergency' need to get 4 staff members to the plane's destination. Now whether this 'emergency' was legit or the result of incompetence remains to be seen.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)You stlll address the extra bodies before you board the plane.
LisaM
(27,822 posts)I generally have wiggle room - BUT - they won't tell you when the next flight will be. If it's three hours later, fine. If it's the next day, not fine. It makes it absolutely impossible to be flexible when it's a crapshoot giving up your seat.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It is actually illegal for an airline to offer more than $1350 for involuntary bumping:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/united-video-scandal-law/522552/
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5
§ 250.5 Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily.
(a) Subject to the exceptions provided in § 250.6, a carrier to whom this part applies as described in § 250.2 shall pay compensation in interstate air transportation to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight as follows:
(1) No compensation is required if the carrier offers alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination not later than one hour after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight;
(2) Compensation shall be 200% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $675, if the carrier offers alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight; and
(3) Compensation shall be 400% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $1,350, if the carrier does not offer alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight.
Lars39
(26,110 posts)Any over booking would have been on seats not reserved for the employees.
malaise
(269,157 posts)so let the paying peons suffer
kacekwl
(7,021 posts)out of his pocket and figure another way to get crew to the destination. United's problem not this poor sap being dragged down the aisle.
Lars39
(26,110 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)and that's the truth
Lars39
(26,110 posts)It was bad. Can't imagine how much worse it is now.
PufPuf23
(8,813 posts)Glad to watch video and see that at least some other passengers were appalled.
Hope the victim sues.
In situations when passengers are bumped who had reservations, the legal policy should be that the airline offers compensation to true volunteers up until only volunteers give up their seat.
One wonders what type of control there is to prohibit frivolous over booking and if statistics are kept and available for research and the public.
chia
(2,244 posts)Really, does their situation manual only have two stages?
1. normal
2. physical assault and drag away the body
doc03
(35,362 posts)people are making cell phone videos of things and posting them. We have no idea what really happened before he got on the plane. I saw one video showing the man coming down the aisle of the plane saying over and over "I got to get home". So apparently he was told he was bumped before he got on the plane and he tried to evade them and board the plane anyway. If that was the case he was an AH. Why was his race brought into it anyway.
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)He was allowed back on (bloodied and dazed)
He did not try to evade and board anyway
At that point he was probably in shock
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2017/04/10/video-shows-man-forcibly-removed-united-flight-chicago-louisville/100274374/
doc03
(35,362 posts)after he was taken off. I didn't know the context, there was no explanation why it showed him saying "I got to get home". If it was before or after being taken off. If that is what really happened he was right. I read your article and it tells the rest of the story. The one I saw
showed them dragging the guy off but didn't explain if the one of him getting on was before or after. If they would have offered me $800
I would have gotten off the plane and saved all this trouble.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)It wasn't $800 in cash, it was a voucher for future travel, which generally comes with enough exceptions and conditions to make it virtually unusable. Plus, they would only offer him another flight the next afternoon, eighteen hours later
and airlines no longer pay for hotel rooms, so he'd be sleeping on an airport bench or spending his own money for a hotel room.
Normally, the law specifies that the compensation for being bumped to a later flight is 400% of the fare, which in this case would have been $1,350. In cash. There was no excuse for only offering a voucher for less than 2/3 of that, and then calling in the rent-a-thugs when that offer proved insufficient.
Cattledog
(5,917 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)All those who are incapable of empathy or compassion go to my ignore list. Makes DU feel like a much more pleasant place.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)...reminds me of whenever an unarmed black man is killed by police, and the usual suspects pop up to point out "well, if he had followed the police orders quietly and without questioning, he'd still be alive today."
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)Speaking of AH -- it's amazing how many I've blocked here today.
I mean, I was over on Airlines.net, where a lot of the members work in the industry and generally claim that "the company is always right"
and even they have far fewer people defending the airline than I'm seeing here.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)LeftInTX
(25,511 posts)The other passengers decided to give up their seat.
Pretty sure it was random.
However, how he was treated by security is another matter.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)GReedDiamond
(5,316 posts)...they did not want to break up the victim's family.
I'm surprised they didn't beat her unconscious, too.
Demsrule86
(68,637 posts)Funny how they said nothing so far.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)just the very randomness of my selection would be upsetting.
At any rate, this was an abuse of power. Its truly chilling to see how quickly the situation eroded and the corrupting influence even a bit of authority can have.
Greywing
(1,124 posts)The only form of protest they understand ... hit them in the pocketbook.
mainer
(12,023 posts)So no. He was not a jerk.
http://www.businessinsider.com/united-passenger-dragged-off-flight-cnn-2017-4