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egbertowillies

(4,058 posts)
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 03:24 PM Apr 2017

My thoughts on Asian doctor forcibly removed from United flight (VIDEO)

This story about an Asian doctor forcibly removed from an overbooked flight is upsetting on many levels. If this isn't an example of a corporate police state, I am not sure what is. I will explain how this should be handled. Was this random or ... ?

https://egbertowillies.com/2017/04/10/asian-doctor-violently-removed-united-flight/

161 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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My thoughts on Asian doctor forcibly removed from United flight (VIDEO) (Original Post) egbertowillies Apr 2017 OP
When asked to leave he refused.... the guy was and is a jerk 4139 Apr 2017 #1
Are you fugging serious malaise Apr 2017 #2
+100 TXCritter Apr 2017 #3
DU is bizarro world now. tallahasseedem Apr 2017 #4
Yes we have such interesting rather new posters. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #56
i am not crazy about them either. trueblue2007 Apr 2017 #143
Also shitty topics jeanmarc Apr 2017 #146
+1 tallahasseedem Apr 2017 #157
+1 BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #9
Scary indeed malaise Apr 2017 #10
New video from Raw Story with the poor guy covered in blood is even scarier womanofthehills Apr 2017 #117
it is reported this morning that he sustained a concussion. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #152
Of course. A PoC wasn't compliant. That tends to get them frothing. SaschaHM Apr 2017 #12
Yep, and one is in this thread BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #13
I'm not a fan of United's behavior, but yelling "police State" is uncalled for. brooklynite Apr 2017 #84
It is a "police state" when a 69 yr old Asian dr is knocked unconscious womanofthehills Apr 2017 #124
It is a corporate police state where the corporatations are above the law. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #153
In "the good old days" everyone seems to remember, you paid twice as much... brooklynite Apr 2017 #156
I would rather pay more...and by the time you pay fees and baggage and all the Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #160
Yes I'm serious. He had a right to be pissed, but not to act like an AH. 4139 Apr 2017 #16
Yeah what an AH.. LakeArenal Apr 2017 #21
Yes he is an AH... his view he is tooo important to be asked to leave. 4139 Apr 2017 #25
And this snot mikeysnot Apr 2017 #28
Get off this site right now! Blues Heron Apr 2017 #39
Personal attacks are not allowed on DU MyNameGoesHere Apr 2017 #70
*SNORT* grossproffit Apr 2017 #106
Ahem....yeah exactly this! Docreed2003 Apr 2017 #132
We should all know our place and bow down before our corporate masters! athena Apr 2017 #114
The only snots are the people at United Airlines who didn't offer enough compensation pnwmom Apr 2017 #142
You're Dorian Gray Apr 2017 #150
Whew! Thanks for that, 4139 gratuitous Apr 2017 #22
Well said malaise Apr 2017 #23
I wish I could K&R this post! Tanuki Apr 2017 #32
ha! annabanana Apr 2017 #35
***Ding Ding Ding*** We have a Thread Winner! NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #37
If only people were more like lemmings or robots, we would not have these scenes delisen Apr 2017 #42
What was he wearing? mcar Apr 2017 #44
He is almost 70 yrs old - kick the oldest people off the plane womanofthehills Apr 2017 #126
Horrible mcar Apr 2017 #158
The same crowd that justifies SWAT teams throwing flash grenades at babies because "POT IS ILLEGAL!" Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #58
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2017 #69
I was on a jury for your post. You made it thankfully. Kingofalldems Apr 2017 #79
Thanks for your vote gratuitous Apr 2017 #92
That post was alerted? Seriously? athena Apr 2017 #115
I'm reminded of the "receipt threads" of yore. Dr. Strange Apr 2017 #90
+1 dalton99a Apr 2017 #109
+1,000!!! Right on! AgadorSparticus Apr 2017 #120
lawnoder! lawnoder! lapfog_1 Apr 2017 #140
I think United acted like assholes...forcing people off a plane so their people could Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #59
One witness said passenger and wife were trying to get airline to pay for rental car mainer Apr 2017 #72
Most of us are (as yet) not used to such treatment and don't respond well to it. Turbineguy Apr 2017 #76
AGAIN, FUCK THAT FUCKING SHIT!!!! Foamfollower Apr 2017 #98
He got knocked the fuck out and then got dragged from the plane Docreed2003 Apr 2017 #130
He has a concussion. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #155
Plus they are seniors - he is 69 yrs old - Kick the Seniors off the planes first womanofthehills Apr 2017 #123
Amen..... chillfactor Apr 2017 #141
Why should he leave? jehop61 Apr 2017 #14
he refused to give up a seat he had paid for and for which he had followed every rule geek tragedy Apr 2017 #17
"its contractual obligation" jberryhill Apr 2017 #64
"Denied boarding". NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #71
Okay, so tell me what I should have done here jberryhill Apr 2017 #93
That's the airline's problem. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #95
Uh, the plane wasn't taking off with two people standing jberryhill Apr 2017 #101
Flight wasn't oversold. geek tragedy Apr 2017 #82
This needs to be known sarah FAILIN Apr 2017 #83
One would have to look at relevant decisions on whether this is covered by that jberryhill Apr 2017 #91
This wasn't an equipment issue. geek tragedy Apr 2017 #94
It was more than that... jberryhill Apr 2017 #103
That was the airline's problem, not his geek tragedy Apr 2017 #121
MSNBC said good lawsuit for breach of contract because their was no over booking womanofthehills Apr 2017 #135
The flight was NOT OVERSOLD - MSNBC said this was NOT overbooking but bad planning womanofthehills Apr 2017 #136
14 CFR 250.5 jberryhill Apr 2017 #68
But see 14 CFR 250.2A geek tragedy Apr 2017 #81
Agreed - MSNBC just said what you said - this was not overbooking womanofthehills Apr 2017 #137
That is really weird. I've been on overbooked flights Warpy Apr 2017 #30
According to the airline, the 4 seats were to be given to maintenance employees Tanuki Apr 2017 #34
the four people must have shown up late...I bet United is going to have to prove Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #60
They'll pay through the nose to keep this one out of court Warpy Apr 2017 #62
I am driving this summer. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #154
He was attempting to fly while being a minority Generic Brad Apr 2017 #110
And on cheap tickets because he'd been smart enough to book in advance Warpy Apr 2017 #112
Not only a minority - but a senior citizen minority womanofthehills Apr 2017 #128
Was Rosa Parks a jerk for not moving to the back of the bus? Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #36
Alas, I think some people and some corporations prefer muscle to logic and respect delisen Apr 2017 #43
There's a world of difference between Rosa Parks and this guy mythology Apr 2017 #65
How are they not comparable? NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #74
Given what we've seen at airports, directed at racial and ethnic minorities, Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #86
Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #40
I would be a jerk too nadine_mn Apr 2017 #46
what nonsense. spanone Apr 2017 #49
Bull shit ...why should he have to leave? United's fault... screw United...I hope they end up Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #55
Fuck that fucking shit!!!! Foamfollower Apr 2017 #97
First this should be handled before passengers are seated... Kablooie Apr 2017 #134
I need you to leave this website... Dorian Gray Apr 2017 #149
Yes how dare he TNLib Apr 2017 #161
this was not random KT2000 Apr 2017 #5
Very true. I was thinking the same thing. Cattledog Apr 2017 #50
They were following the Hollywood disaster movie rules Generic Other Apr 2017 #51
He was the third passenger selected jberryhill Apr 2017 #67
I would like a forensic KT2000 Apr 2017 #85
The order they usually use.... jberryhill Apr 2017 #88
that is the stated policy KT2000 Apr 2017 #96
Okay, so... jberryhill Apr 2017 #102
they should ask why KT2000 Apr 2017 #118
"responsible enough to schedule their crews' transportation" jberryhill Apr 2017 #122
I am aware of flight disruptions KT2000 Apr 2017 #125
"beyond what most white American doctors may have" jberryhill Apr 2017 #127
You know that this ISN'T because of his race? Really? LibraLiz1973 Apr 2017 #139
I believe the suggestion that "he cares more about his patients" because of Asian stereotypes jberryhill Apr 2017 #159
I know that because KT2000 Apr 2017 #144
should have been the last to board, imho. mopinko Apr 2017 #99
You keep posting the rules, and that's fine and well... Docreed2003 Apr 2017 #133
His wife was kicked off too and I assume she is a minority too womanofthehills Apr 2017 #138
Yep HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #105
Random, my ass dalton99a Apr 2017 #111
My question is why is it okay to over book the flight in the first place? kydo Apr 2017 #6
overbooking means cheaper seats and if the airlines follow the compensation scheme geek tragedy Apr 2017 #18
Because people buy the cheapest seats available jberryhill Apr 2017 #57
I have been bounced many times. Once, I had to take another airline Alice11111 Apr 2017 #61
How do you know he's a doctor? randome Apr 2017 #7
passengers around him said so mainer Apr 2017 #73
It was not an overbooked flight. randome Apr 2017 #8
Wow, you'd almost think United could fly employees on R B Garr Apr 2017 #15
Yeah, the other airline question lingers for me, too. randome Apr 2017 #19
Nice recovery. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #24
One would think that UA might be happy that R B Garr Apr 2017 #63
They could have offered a price good enough that a few passengers Control-Z Apr 2017 #27
How high, though? $10,000 vouchers? $100,000? randome Apr 2017 #31
You've made my point. Control-Z Apr 2017 #38
How did he "throw a temper tantrum" nadine_mn Apr 2017 #48
The point I have not yet seen addressed, Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #87
It wasn't overbooked. randome Apr 2017 #100
Overbook or emergency doesnt't matter. Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #104
It's not even the price sometimes. I usually get to the airport early, and usually am by myself. LisaM Apr 2017 #33
No, that is illegal jberryhill Apr 2017 #66
United doesn't think enough of their employees to have seats permanently reserved for them. Lars39 Apr 2017 #11
Greed does that to you malaise Apr 2017 #26
The obsenly overpaid CEO should pull some of that coin kacekwl Apr 2017 #54
Should be considered a cost of running the business, instead of running Fight Club Roulette. Lars39 Apr 2017 #75
They treat us worse than cattle malaise Apr 2017 #78
My flying days are over, but even 15 yrs ago Lars39 Apr 2017 #80
That is horrid and not handled well by security. PufPuf23 Apr 2017 #20
I haven't seen anyone yet rationally defend United's actions chia Apr 2017 #29
From the video I saw I couldn't make any kind of judgment. That's the problem doc03 Apr 2017 #41
Um no - that video was taken AFTER he was removed nadine_mn Apr 2017 #45
The video I saw I think on Yahoo showed him getting on the plane doc03 Apr 2017 #47
If you had taken that offer, you would have been a fool... regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #147
This thread gave me the opportunity to add to my ignore list! Cattledog Apr 2017 #52
+1 dalton99a Apr 2017 #108
Same here! athena Apr 2017 #119
What I've been reading here... regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #148
Yep... regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #145
I wonder if it was random...or they picked the non-white passenger. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #53
He was the third or fourth passenger selected LeftInTX Apr 2017 #113
His wife was one of the other passengers asked to leave womanofthehills Apr 2017 #116
Yes, because United is so "humane"... GReedDiamond Apr 2017 #131
I would like to know who the other passengers were... Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #151
or the oldest person on the plane or the oldest minority person on the plane & his wife womanofthehills Apr 2017 #129
If I were the booted passenger, lapucelle Apr 2017 #77
I will be boycotting United ... period Greywing Apr 2017 #89
Fellow passenger: "He was a really sweet man." mainer Apr 2017 #107

malaise

(269,157 posts)
2. Are you fugging serious
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 03:35 PM
Apr 2017

He and his wife had tickets they paid for - he had patients to see today.

Fuck United Airlines

jeanmarc

(1,685 posts)
146. Also shitty topics
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:23 AM
Apr 2017

Bad topic titles, then no subject matter. No links.

And yes, this doctor did not deserve to get brained and pulled off a flight. He was already on the flight.

BannonsLiver

(16,435 posts)
13. Yep, and one is in this thread
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:00 PM
Apr 2017


I wonder if that level of skepticism would be applied to a white male?

brooklynite

(94,695 posts)
84. I'm not a fan of United's behavior, but yelling "police State" is uncalled for.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 08:05 PM
Apr 2017

They're a private company making a (poorly thought out) business decision, and there are alternative airlines competing for your business who will stand to benefit. We now have five national airlines, plus regional carriers.

womanofthehills

(8,751 posts)
124. It is a "police state" when a 69 yr old Asian dr is knocked unconscious
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:35 AM
Apr 2017

So throwing seniors around is "a poorly thought out business decision."

Demsrule86

(68,637 posts)
153. It is a corporate police state where the corporatations are above the law.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:28 AM
Apr 2017

Disgusting behavior on United's part. We are heading for Carolina for a family reunion this August...brothers, and sister...kids etc. It is about nine hours. We have decided to drive. No way, I am putting up with this shit. And I heard now they charge you for every bag, we are just victims to be robbed. I would rather drive, and I hate driving.

brooklynite

(94,695 posts)
156. In "the good old days" everyone seems to remember, you paid twice as much...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:49 AM
Apr 2017

...the reason you're now being charged for bags, and not getting meals is that the airlines have cut base fares to the bone to remain competitive.

Demsrule86

(68,637 posts)
160. I would rather pay more...and by the time you pay fees and baggage and all the
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:18 PM
Apr 2017

other bullshit, you are paying almost as much. We need to regulate our airline industry.

LakeArenal

(28,835 posts)
21. Yeah what an AH..
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:28 PM
Apr 2017

Being dragged around by the Black Shirts and bleeding all over the other passengers....

Sheesh 4139... I guess you'd know a AH when you see one...

mikeysnot

(4,757 posts)
28. And this snot
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:43 PM
Apr 2017

would have refused to leave also.

I would be like, here is my counter offer for leaving...


3 first class round trip tickets to Paris and a suite for the night at the Hilton.

NO then fuck your employees.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
70. Personal attacks are not allowed on DU
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 07:03 PM
Apr 2017

So if anyone says "Fuck You" to you in this post you should report them.

athena

(4,187 posts)
114. We should all know our place and bow down before our corporate masters!
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 11:54 PM
Apr 2017

Thanks, but no thanks. You're welcome to voluntarily leave your flight for no compensation the next time United has to get itself out of a difficult situation it created. Me, I will fight for regulation that ensures that people are treated with fairness, respect, and dignity.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
142. The only snots are the people at United Airlines who didn't offer enough compensation
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:22 AM
Apr 2017

to induce a single person to give up their contracted-for seats.

It was incredibly stupid for them to offer only $800 when they knew that if they got no takers, they would be required to pay up to $1325. So by forcing him off the plane, they are out $1325. If they had simply offered $1000 or $1200 or $1300 to the whole plane, they most likely would have gotten a volunteer and had no reason to force anyone off.

Dorian Gray

(13,498 posts)
150. You're
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:21 AM
Apr 2017

obviously just trolling to get a response.

Ridiculous.

Every single human being who paid for a ticket and had a seat on the airplane would be MIFFED about being asked to leave.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
22. Whew! Thanks for that, 4139
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:29 PM
Apr 2017

I've looked over a few news stories on this incident, and was getting worried that there weren't any authoritarian types showing up the scold everyone about their civic duty to obey any and every order imposed on them by their betters. Thanks for taking up the slack, and reminding us that when law enforcement is involved, nobody has any rights that are bound to be respected and any resistance means you're just an asshole who deserves whatever's coming to him.

Do we know if the doctor had any outstanding parking tickets or other evidence of law-breaking?

womanofthehills

(8,751 posts)
126. He is almost 70 yrs old - kick the oldest people off the plane
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:39 AM
Apr 2017

and drag them down the aisle after you knock them out

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
58. The same crowd that justifies SWAT teams throwing flash grenades at babies because "POT IS ILLEGAL!"
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:58 PM
Apr 2017

Yep. Predictable as fuck-all.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
92. Thanks for your vote
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:22 PM
Apr 2017

I'm open to discussion if there's a responsible opposing viewpoint, but apparently that's asking too much of the person who alerted.

athena

(4,187 posts)
115. That post was alerted? Seriously?
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 11:56 PM
Apr 2017

Wow. I really think Russian spies must have invaded this site in an attempt to wreak havoc. I'm glad the system is robust enough, there are enough reasonable members, that the effects are not more obvious. Even the NYT comments on this story are almost uniformly supportive of the poor guy who was kicked off, despite their large number of resident right-wing-nutcase commenters.

lapfog_1

(29,219 posts)
140. lawnoder! lawnoder!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:04 AM
Apr 2017

It stinks to high heaven.

Obvious we live in an Ayn Rand utopia fascist police state now!

But where was the Ayn Rand solution?

United needed the seats for "more important people" (namely another flight crew)... so why didn't the free market decide? $800 wasn't enough... offer more until you get the 4 seats. Simple. No problems with having to bash in the heads of the paying public.

need I add

Demsrule86

(68,637 posts)
59. I think United acted like assholes...forcing people off a plane so their people could
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:58 PM
Apr 2017

get a free ride someplace...hope he sues the pants off of both United and the police.

mainer

(12,023 posts)
72. One witness said passenger and wife were trying to get airline to pay for rental car
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 07:04 PM
Apr 2017

and in the midst of the calm conversation, they just grabbed him and pulled him off.

Turbineguy

(37,362 posts)
76. Most of us are (as yet) not used to such treatment and don't respond well to it.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 07:32 PM
Apr 2017

We are not yet used to living in a police state.

For example, my relatives were in Nazi occupied Europe during WWII. They kept a small bag packed by the door, in case they were hauled away in the middle of the night. And obviously they had a pretty shrewd idea what would happen if they resisted.

If I book a reservation on a certain flight, it's because I want to take that one and not another.

Docreed2003

(16,869 posts)
130. He got knocked the fuck out and then got dragged from the plane
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:47 AM
Apr 2017

I don't care who you are or what your position is or what ethic background you happen to be this episode is a fucking disgusting. I can tell you right now if I had purchased a ticket and was asked to leave the plane because the airline fucked up and I knew I had to be home the next day, I'd be an asshole too. That doesn't justify them knocking him out and dragging him from the plane.

womanofthehills

(8,751 posts)
123. Plus they are seniors - he is 69 yrs old - Kick the Seniors off the planes first
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:30 AM
Apr 2017

It's so easy for an almost 70 yr old man and his wife to have to change their plans and catch another flight. Make sure you knock those old folks out when you throw them to the floor. Maybe you can break some bones too - those senior bones break easier.

Sounds like a Margaret Atwood short story.

chillfactor

(7,580 posts)
141. Amen.....
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:13 AM
Apr 2017

what is with these idiots who seem to pop up now and then on DU with such insanely stupid comments,

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
14. Why should he leave?
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:01 PM
Apr 2017

He had a paid ticket. United could have rented a van and driven the crew to Loisville in four hours. Post Trump business practices!

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
17. he refused to give up a seat he had paid for and for which he had followed every rule
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:11 PM
Apr 2017

because the airline was not willing to perform its contractual obligation and had utterly failed in planning.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
64. "its contractual obligation"
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:34 PM
Apr 2017

Have you ever actually read the contract constituting an airline ticket?

Here is the contract:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

All of UA’s flights are subject to overbooking which could result in UA’s inability to provide previously confirmed reserved space for a given flight or for the class of service reserved. In that event, UA’s obligation to the Passenger is governed by Rule 25.

...

Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation

Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
Request for Volunteers
UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.
UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
93. Okay, so tell me what I should have done here
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:24 PM
Apr 2017

I bought tickets from PHL to France and upgraded with points at the check-in counter. I was issued boarding passes for two first class seats. I boarded the plane and there were two people already sitting in the seats we had bought and paid for.

Oddly enough, they had also bought economy tickets and upgraded them with points, and were issued boarding passes for the same two first class seats.

All four of us were on the plane, and all the other seats in first class were taken. So, yeah, we were all "boarded".

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
101. Uh, the plane wasn't taking off with two people standing
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 10:45 PM
Apr 2017

Once I was assured of a refund, I went ahead and reseated in coach, because shit happens. I would never book a flight for the day before a court hearing because I don't expect the weather, crew issues or maintenance issues to accommodate my schedule.

There were tens of thousands of people from Thursday through the weekend who did not get where they were going due to the weather. After a large weather disruption, it's not as if someone throws a switch and everything works normally, because there are crews and equipment which have been stuck in the wrong places, and you have a maximum of two hours between a crew member waking up and getting onto a flight.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
91. One would have to look at relevant decisions on whether this is covered by that
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:20 PM
Apr 2017

Because similar circumstances happen when a flight is not oversold, but due to equipment issues they use a smaller plane.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
103. It was more than that...
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 10:48 PM
Apr 2017

They weren't flying standby for personal travel. They had run out of qualified crew in Chicago, and there was a flight there which wasn't going anywhere without a crew.
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
121. That was the airline's problem, not his
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:08 AM
Apr 2017

If it was so important to get that flight crew onto the flight, their proper recourse was to up the compensation they were offering, not go Kim Jong Un.

womanofthehills

(8,751 posts)
135. MSNBC said good lawsuit for breach of contract because their was no over booking
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:20 AM
Apr 2017

poor employee planning on their part does not give them the right to rip a person off a plane.

womanofthehills

(8,751 posts)
136. The flight was NOT OVERSOLD - MSNBC said this was NOT overbooking but bad planning
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:24 AM
Apr 2017

so United can be sued for breach of contract.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
81. But see 14 CFR 250.2A
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 07:44 PM
Apr 2017
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a


In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.


womanofthehills

(8,751 posts)
137. Agreed - MSNBC just said what you said - this was not overbooking
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:27 AM
Apr 2017

because they were going to put their own people on.

Warpy

(111,327 posts)
30. That is really weird. I've been on overbooked flights
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:47 PM
Apr 2017

and they've always asked for volunteers before they started to seat people.

If he had a seat already, why were the dragging him out of it? This just doesn't make any sense as the story is written. If they wanted him to make room for a VIP, it wouldn't have been in cattle class.

Something else had to be going on.

Tanuki

(14,920 posts)
34. According to the airline, the 4 seats were to be given to maintenance employees
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:57 PM
Apr 2017

whom they wanted to have on the ground at the destination airport. They weren't ticketed passengers, as would be the typical overbooking situation. Still, the airline could have and most certainly should have made other arrangements to solve their staffing problem.

Demsrule86

(68,637 posts)
60. the four people must have shown up late...I bet United is going to have to prove
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:01 PM
Apr 2017

first of all ...they say they selected the passenger randomly but did they really? Prove it...and they are going to have to say why these United folks were flying ...what was their purpose? Going to pay and hope it goes away.

Warpy

(111,327 posts)
62. They'll pay through the nose to keep this one out of court
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:03 PM
Apr 2017

It's going to cost them more than putting their employees on another flight or even another airline would have. Oh, and don't forget the people who are going to book on other airlines because they don't want to be beaten to a pulp because they need to get to work the day after they get home.

Generic Brad

(14,275 posts)
110. He was attempting to fly while being a minority
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 11:33 PM
Apr 2017

In bizzarro police state that apparently means authorities have the right to beat the shit out of you with no provocation.

Warpy

(111,327 posts)
112. And on cheap tickets because he'd been smart enough to book in advance
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 11:40 PM
Apr 2017

That's usually how they choose people to bump off flights. Pay full price, sit in first class, it will never happen.

The only good coming out of this is that it will cost United a fortune in settlements and lost business and they'll change their stupid policy and shuffle their employees around during off peak times.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
36. Was Rosa Parks a jerk for not moving to the back of the bus?
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:01 PM
Apr 2017

I have not seen any explanation as to how this particular passenger was chosen - and what I do see in the video is a poorly dressed Asian man, which hraises suspicions for me in view of recent outrageous treatment of pretty much anyone who isn't white (and some who are) in connection with travel. And particularly since:

I travel fairly frequently and have never seen an overbooking handles AFTER the passengers have boarded.
Why drag someone off the plane, rather than refuse to permit the next one on.
Why not continue to offer higher and higher compensation, until it was worth it to someone

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
65. There's a world of difference between Rosa Parks and this guy
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:40 PM
Apr 2017

It's hard to fathom how you think they are ethically comparable.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
86. Given what we've seen at airports, directed at racial and ethnic minorities,
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:07 PM
Apr 2017

do you really thing it was a coincidence that the person chosen to be removed, in the first place, and then man-handled enough to at least get a bloody lip out of it, was a poorly dressed Asian man?

Response to 4139 (Reply #1)

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
46. I would be a jerk too
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:23 PM
Apr 2017

If I paid for a ticket and was already seated on the plane ready and had to work the next morning - yeah I would say no.

They asked for volunteers - not enough volunteered. At no point does that allow someone to physically assault me.

I don't understand how you think it is ok to be physically assaulted when you have done nothing wrong. He paid for his ticket, he boarded a flight, volunteers were asked for, he didn't volunteer and they decided well "randomly" you have to go. He had done nothing to violate his contractual agreement with the airline - he was not disorderly, not violent. He just said no.

Demsrule86

(68,637 posts)
55. Bull shit ...why should he have to leave? United's fault... screw United...I hope they end up
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:56 PM
Apr 2017

paying big time.

Kablooie

(18,638 posts)
134. First this should be handled before passengers are seated...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:04 AM
Apr 2017

Second it should be handled with more enticements if a passenger is reluctant.

Third they let him back on so he might have had a valid reason for refusing such as being needed to perform an important operation in the morning.
They didn't try to find why he was refusing.

Fourth the seat was for one of Their own employees. There must be an alternative solution.

This was handled horribly. He wasn't violent or criminal just determined to keep the seat he paid for and has settled down in.

United deserves all the backlash they get.

Dorian Gray

(13,498 posts)
149. I need you to leave this website...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:20 AM
Apr 2017

now. If you don't, I'm going to get law enforcement to remove you.

If you don't agree, then you're a jerk.

TNLib

(1,819 posts)
161. Yes how dare he
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:00 PM
Apr 2017

have the audacity to expect to get the service he paid for.

He must be beaten, bloodied and humiliated.



KT2000

(20,586 posts)
5. this was not random
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 03:44 PM
Apr 2017

IMHO - He was selected BECAUSE he is Asian and they expected him to be compliant according to stereotypes. He knew that and that is why he resisted. White people are so damn condescending to Asian people and what white people do not know is that they carry a wealth of experiences where they have been insulted and ridiculed by white people.

I am white and one of my best friends is from China. I can not believe how she is treated sometimes by ignorant white people. It has gotten worse since rump became prez. My friend is a doctor, daughter of a Chinese high official, who will drop everything to help a person in need, usually white people. She has antenna for helping. She will run off to help someone she sees needs help and I had not even been aware of it.

Over the phone, people sometimes make it difficult for her because of her strong accent, such as giving her false information (on health insurance), or putting the phone down so she only gets dead air. Occasionally she is told to go back to where she came from by old white ladies. One old bigot in the neighborhood assumed she was on welfare when in fact she supports her whole family. He still wanted to report her to the county for having insects in her yard (because she was pesticide free) that might travel to his yard!

BUT - everyone who KNOWS her - LOVES her! White people can be so stupid.

Thanks for letting me vent. It is just that we do not hear much about the prejudice that Asian people face - and that is what the doctor came up against.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
67. He was the third passenger selected
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:53 PM
Apr 2017

So, can you tell us why the first two were not minorities and left the plane first?

KT2000

(20,586 posts)
85. I would like a forensic
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 08:55 PM
Apr 2017

examination of the program used to select involuntary removal. Would also like to know why a doctor committed to patient appointments would still be removed from the plane. Would a white doctor have been given accommodation? They certainly could have gone to the next on their "list." Instead they chose to do physical injury to a customer.

Does an article say the first two were not minorities?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
88. The order they usually use....
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:17 PM
Apr 2017


https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25

Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:

Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.

The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.

KT2000

(20,586 posts)
96. that is the stated policy
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:59 PM
Apr 2017

but it does not say how the program makes selections. Obviously couples are selected first by evidence of this event. That might be an unstated policy or would they just take one from each couple? They didn't do that.

It would be good to see how this really operates - are these the only criteria? how many names are delivered - the exact number of seats needed or more? Are crew allowed to make selections from a list?
Are there no more categories of hardship?
If this man is a doctor did they ask if he was a surgeon with surgeries scheduled, was he booked for appointments months out, would his missing his appointments cause undo harm to his patients?

My guess is there is more to this process than the stated policy. By forensic, I meant analyzing the program that makes the selections.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
102. Okay, so...
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 10:46 PM
Apr 2017

If a complete analysis shows that the selection was by neutral criteria, then what should have happened next?

KT2000

(20,586 posts)
118. they should ask why
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:50 AM
Apr 2017

he has to get back on time. They needed to hold a discussion with the man and his wife. An evaluation could be made as to his reason. I happen to believe that a doctor needing to make his appointments is a reason to let him stay. His work is as valuable as the flight attendants/pilot that he was being bumped for.
Most of the criteria they use to determine who gets bumped has to do with the amount of travel ($$) the person does, not who and how many are inconvenienced by their action.

United should be responsible enough to schedule their crews' transportation better than this.

If there is a valid reason to remove a passenger, slamming his face into the armrest is not OK. Having knocked the man out, medical personnel such as EMTs should have been called to transport him in a way safer than dragging him down the aisle. His neck could have been broken. No evaluation of his condition was made.
If inducing pain by twisting his hand back, which is part of the protocol, was used that is wrong too. That could cause serious disability for a surgeon and others who work with their hands.

Post 9/11, airlines have taken a position of authority, backed up with law enforcement officers that appears to be getting out of hand. It looks like they have abandoned practical procedures dealing with their customers and turned to law enforcement to handle their crappy business practices.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
122. "responsible enough to schedule their crews' transportation"
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:14 AM
Apr 2017

I'm going to guess you don't live in an area of the country that was affected by severe weather on Thursday, which caused thousands of cancelled flights and which takes several days to straighten out. Massive flight disruptions in one area don't just affect that area, and the ten hour rest requirement makes it very difficult to get the crews back on schedule.

But what you are saying is that they should have removed someone else from the plane instead of him, correct?

KT2000

(20,586 posts)
125. I am aware of flight disruptions
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:37 AM
Apr 2017

due to weather.
United handled this in the worst way possible - after everyone was seated?

First of all - it is United's responsibility to get their crews where they needed to go. Rent a small airplane if necessary.
But -
Before boarding they could have explained that due to the weather crisis they needed to get crew to that destination and make their offer to the passengers - at the terminal.
When and if no one responds, and once seated, they should be sensitive to the reasons anyone would have for not leaving the plane. I am willing to bet that this man has a very strong obligation to his patients - beyond what most white American doctors may have.
Personally I would accept his reason and go to the next person who has spent the least amount of money on airline travel. (That's some criteria there!)

Again, question if they would be willing to leave the plane and make a determination of their reason if they say no. Keep going down the list. Take a flipping hour to do it if necessary.

We should all be on guard to preserve humanity in the face of corporate power backed up by law enforcement officers. The doctor was right to not sacrifice his humanity to some faceless corporation that only sees humans as dollar signs.

If no one was willing to leave - rent a freakin plane for the crew.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
127. "beyond what most white American doctors may have"
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:45 AM
Apr 2017

You know this about him because of his race? Really?

LibraLiz1973

(8,197 posts)
139. You know that this ISN'T because of his race? Really?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:30 AM
Apr 2017

In your opinion it's clear that this was justified. That's nice for you.
Many of us disagree. Is that okay with you?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
159. I believe the suggestion that "he cares more about his patients" because of Asian stereotypes
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:33 AM
Apr 2017

...is certainly racist.

KT2000

(20,586 posts)
144. I know that because
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:29 AM
Apr 2017

Last edited Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:10 AM - Edit history (1)

a very good friend is a doctor from China. Asian culture and what she calls their traditions are different. This man appears by age to have come from the older traditions. As she explained to me doctors were not considered to be of the upper class and better than others but rather in service to their patients. That means their patients come before anything else, as it is a calling to serve, also they know there are not enough doctors to take care of everyone.
Doctors in China are not wealthy or highly paid.
My friend is shocked by the way doctors here are wealthy and treated as if they are better than other people. Her father was the Minister of Health in China until he died. My friend lived next to hospitals her whole life and the family social circle was doctors. I believe her assessment of the medical community there.

Modern China is becoming more and more like the US so that may change too.

While there are likely white American doctors who share those values, most enjoy the special privileges afforded doctors in this country and do consider themselves above others.

The man's response to the humiliation showed me that he is not the sort to think himself better but more likely his words "kill me" came from a more traditional viewpoint. He will not be the same after this.

Are you seeing this? When they told him to leave - they were telling him he had to abandon his patients - his sacred duty. For no reason other than a refusal to follow orders, United crew saw a need to call the cops!

Docreed2003

(16,869 posts)
133. You keep posting the rules, and that's fine and well...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:00 AM
Apr 2017

But please point in the rule book where the airline has the authority to not only unseat a passenger but knock their ass out and drag them from the plane if they aren't compliant. Watch the video, if you haven't already, it's fucking disgusting!

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
105. Yep
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 11:00 PM
Apr 2017


“He was kind of saying that he was being singled out because he’s a Chinese man” when speaking to the manager, who was African-American, Bridges said. “You should know what this is like,” the man said, according to Bridges. The AP was unable to confirm the passenger’s identity

kydo

(2,679 posts)
6. My question is why is it okay to over book the flight in the first place?
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 03:47 PM
Apr 2017

Its common practice that is dumb and serves no purpose other then to make more cash for the people that already have tons of it. Plus it only applies to the cheep seats. If the practice is to over book then ALL passengers should be subject to the same policies.

What happened to this paying passenger was wrong, and well before security arrived and made the problem worse.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
18. overbooking means cheaper seats and if the airlines follow the compensation scheme
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:13 PM
Apr 2017

properly, generally pretty satisfied customers.

What happened here is that United decided to cheap out with the compensation and resorted to authoritarian thug tactics instead.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
57. Because people buy the cheapest seats available
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:57 PM
Apr 2017

...and if you are going to have to burn fuel to move empty seats around, and if you know that X% of passengers do not make their booking, then you are going to have to charge X% more for tickets. Consequently, you aren't going to sell any tickets, because people are not going to pay x% more for an airline which has a guaranteed "no overbooking" policy.

But this had nothing to do with overbooking. Flight reservations all over the place were screwed by last week's severe storms.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
61. I have been bounced many times. Once, I had to take another airline
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:01 PM
Apr 2017

From the layover or I would have missed the wedding I was going for. It was very expensive
I wasnt compensated, as.they said i could jave stayed the night in Denver and gone the next morning. The airlines do not consider whether you will make it to an event on time..9nly their costs.

Once, a group of about 10 of us were getting bumped all together, and running around together.

The cheapest tix get bumped first.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
7. How do you know he's a doctor?
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 03:47 PM
Apr 2017

[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

mainer

(12,023 posts)
73. passengers around him said so
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 07:05 PM
Apr 2017

prior to the "incident" he'd told nearby passengers that he needed to see patients the next day.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
8. It was not an overbooked flight.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 03:48 PM
Apr 2017

United had a cascading series of delays and cancellations in the region and needed to get 4 staff members to the plane's destination. Whether that was justified or not, this was not an overbooked flight.

One could easily say that United would have had even MORE outraged passengers in the region if they didn't do something immediately about the delays and staffing situation.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

R B Garr

(16,973 posts)
15. Wow, you'd almost think United could fly employees on
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:03 PM
Apr 2017

another airline to get them there on time for their other connections. In a way, this makes it worse. They can't blame it on any kind of customer service procedures. If I paid for that seat and their business model is to throw me out to make up for their delays elsewhere, eff that.

But, this does bring up a question about overbooking. If paid travelers haven't shown up in time to get their seat while the plane is boarding...maybe they are subject to forfeiture. Not sure how the overbooking works exactly.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
19. Yeah, the other airline question lingers for me, too.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:14 PM
Apr 2017

I can understand if extenuating circumstances made the situation complex and difficult but yeah, why not book them on another airline? Could the schedules have been too scattered for that to work?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

R B Garr

(16,973 posts)
63. One would think that UA might be happy that
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:07 PM
Apr 2017

they found three suckers to leave the plane and let the 4th one who was clearly traumatized go on with the flight he booked, paid for and boarded. At least three employees would have been on time. The business decisions all around are truly bizarre.

This is an interesting glimpse into how the airlines really view passengers, just cattle.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
27. They could have offered a price good enough that a few passengers
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:42 PM
Apr 2017

may have volunteered to take another flight. If the employees who took the seats were needed in order to get another plane or two off the ground perhaps a percentage of the profits from those flight should have gone to the inconvenienced customers.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
31. How high, though? $10,000 vouchers? $100,000?
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:48 PM
Apr 2017

They reached their limit and forced 4 passengers off. Only one threw a temper tantrum about it. The video does not show the police beating him up, either, as some have said. It shows the guy bumping his head on the seats across from him once he lost his grip.

But in a crowded, confining environment like this, things go wrong more easily when force is used.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
38. You've made my point.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:03 PM
Apr 2017

Offering a decent price to begin with would have prevented this whole mess. I'm sure they'd prefer the opportunity to offer a good price over being obligated to pay a percentage of their profits. After all, it was their profit off of the flights they needed the employees for that drove them to violate that poor man.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
48. How did he "throw a temper tantrum"
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:28 PM
Apr 2017

by saying no?

He was dragged out of his seat and in the process his head was smacked with enough force to draw blood.

How is this ok? How is this his fault?

The flight was delayed over 2 hours (the staff could have rented a van been halfway to the destination in that time). If I had to work the next day and couldn't afford to lose my job (let's say he wasn't a doctor just an average blue collar worker) or had to get my kids or whatever - I would say no. Does that mean I deserve to get dragged out of my seat? I don't understand - I held up my part of the agreement with the airline - paid for my ticket, showed up and sat down.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
87. The point I have not yet seen addressed,
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:15 PM
Apr 2017

is why they boarded passengers they didn't have seats for.

Overbooking is resolved before you permit someone on the plane. And if you're Southwest, so it might be possible to not have a one-to-one correspondence between seats and bodies, you stop the line before you put the last 4 passengers on.

You don't go on the plane and demand they forfeit their seat because you can't get your act together to count before you board.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
100. It wasn't overbooked.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 10:24 PM
Apr 2017

UA had an 'emergency' need to get 4 staff members to the plane's destination. Now whether this 'emergency' was legit or the result of incompetence remains to be seen.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
104. Overbook or emergency doesnt't matter.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 10:48 PM
Apr 2017

You stlll address the extra bodies before you board the plane.

LisaM

(27,822 posts)
33. It's not even the price sometimes. I usually get to the airport early, and usually am by myself.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:55 PM
Apr 2017

I generally have wiggle room - BUT - they won't tell you when the next flight will be. If it's three hours later, fine. If it's the next day, not fine. It makes it absolutely impossible to be flexible when it's a crapshoot giving up your seat.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
66. No, that is illegal
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 06:51 PM
Apr 2017

It is actually illegal for an airline to offer more than $1350 for involuntary bumping:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/united-video-scandal-law/522552/

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5

§ 250.5 Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily.

(a) Subject to the exceptions provided in § 250.6, a carrier to whom this part applies as described in § 250.2 shall pay compensation in interstate air transportation to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight as follows:

(1) No compensation is required if the carrier offers alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination not later than one hour after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight;

(2) Compensation shall be 200% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $675, if the carrier offers alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight; and

(3) Compensation shall be 400% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $1,350, if the carrier does not offer alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight.

Lars39

(26,110 posts)
11. United doesn't think enough of their employees to have seats permanently reserved for them.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 03:54 PM
Apr 2017

Any over booking would have been on seats not reserved for the employees.

kacekwl

(7,021 posts)
54. The obsenly overpaid CEO should pull some of that coin
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:56 PM
Apr 2017

out of his pocket and figure another way to get crew to the destination. United's problem not this poor sap being dragged down the aisle.

Lars39

(26,110 posts)
80. My flying days are over, but even 15 yrs ago
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 07:44 PM
Apr 2017

It was bad. Can't imagine how much worse it is now.

PufPuf23

(8,813 posts)
20. That is horrid and not handled well by security.
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:27 PM
Apr 2017

Glad to watch video and see that at least some other passengers were appalled.

Hope the victim sues.

In situations when passengers are bumped who had reservations, the legal policy should be that the airline offers compensation to true volunteers up until only volunteers give up their seat.

One wonders what type of control there is to prohibit frivolous over booking and if statistics are kept and available for research and the public.

chia

(2,244 posts)
29. I haven't seen anyone yet rationally defend United's actions
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:44 PM
Apr 2017

Really, does their situation manual only have two stages?
1. normal
2. physical assault and drag away the body

doc03

(35,362 posts)
41. From the video I saw I couldn't make any kind of judgment. That's the problem
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:08 PM
Apr 2017

people are making cell phone videos of things and posting them. We have no idea what really happened before he got on the plane. I saw one video showing the man coming down the aisle of the plane saying over and over "I got to get home". So apparently he was told he was bumped before he got on the plane and he tried to evade them and board the plane anyway. If that was the case he was an AH. Why was his race brought into it anyway.

doc03

(35,362 posts)
47. The video I saw I think on Yahoo showed him getting on the plane
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 05:23 PM
Apr 2017

after he was taken off. I didn't know the context, there was no explanation why it showed him saying "I got to get home". If it was before or after being taken off. If that is what really happened he was right. I read your article and it tells the rest of the story. The one I saw
showed them dragging the guy off but didn't explain if the one of him getting on was before or after. If they would have offered me $800
I would have gotten off the plane and saved all this trouble.

regnaD kciN

(26,045 posts)
147. If you had taken that offer, you would have been a fool...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:26 AM
Apr 2017

It wasn't $800 in cash, it was a voucher for future travel, which generally comes with enough exceptions and conditions to make it virtually unusable. Plus, they would only offer him another flight the next afternoon, eighteen hours later…and airlines no longer pay for hotel rooms, so he'd be sleeping on an airport bench or spending his own money for a hotel room.

Normally, the law specifies that the compensation for being bumped to a later flight is 400% of the fare, which in this case would have been $1,350. In cash. There was no excuse for only offering a voucher for less than 2/3 of that, and then calling in the rent-a-thugs when that offer proved insufficient.

athena

(4,187 posts)
119. Same here!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:57 AM
Apr 2017

All those who are incapable of empathy or compassion go to my ignore list. Makes DU feel like a much more pleasant place.

regnaD kciN

(26,045 posts)
148. What I've been reading here...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:31 AM
Apr 2017

...reminds me of whenever an unarmed black man is killed by police, and the usual suspects pop up to point out "well, if he had followed the police orders quietly and without questioning, he'd still be alive today."


regnaD kciN

(26,045 posts)
145. Yep...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:18 AM
Apr 2017

Speaking of AH -- it's amazing how many I've blocked here today.

I mean, I was over on Airlines.net, where a lot of the members work in the industry and generally claim that "the company is always right"…and even they have far fewer people defending the airline than I'm seeing here.

LeftInTX

(25,511 posts)
113. He was the third or fourth passenger selected
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 11:53 PM
Apr 2017

The other passengers decided to give up their seat.
Pretty sure it was random.

However, how he was treated by security is another matter.

GReedDiamond

(5,316 posts)
131. Yes, because United is so "humane"...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:48 AM
Apr 2017

...they did not want to break up the victim's family.

I'm surprised they didn't beat her unconscious, too.

lapucelle

(18,305 posts)
77. If I were the booted passenger,
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 07:39 PM
Apr 2017

just the very randomness of my selection would be upsetting.

At any rate, this was an abuse of power. Its truly chilling to see how quickly the situation eroded and the corrupting influence even a bit of authority can have.

Greywing

(1,124 posts)
89. I will be boycotting United ... period
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:18 PM
Apr 2017

The only form of protest they understand ... hit them in the pocketbook.

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