"Whataboutism" : propaganda method we can watch for

[sharedvalues]

"Whataboutism is a term describing a propaganda technique used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world during the Cold War."

Whataboutism - Wikipedia


When criticisms were levelled (ed: at Russia, Trump, GOP), the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of (something about the Western world, or progressives)[1][2]. It represents a case of tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy),[3] a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument.

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Sen Mark Warner said that about 1,000 paid Russians were posting on American websites.

My sense of the main methods used to distract progressive discourse:
- Whataboutism (Ex: Snowden is a Russian intelligence collaborator. "But Whatabout America using propaganda abroad??"
- efforts to demean Obama (Ex: "Obama has a bad record in Yemen" "Obama has a poor ethics record". On the first: No president is perfect and it's useful propaganda to play up problems. On the second: straight out lie - Obama was one of the most by-the-book American presidents we have had. He had to be ethical because the GOP and rightwing media would have attacked any small transgression. As it was, they had to make stuff up like birtherism"
- "Both sides do it." An effort to play up small D problems and make them seem the same as systemic huge GOP problems.


Watch for all these propaganda methods and call them out by name. Don't let the reply arguments distract you. Keep to the main topic of the post.

Be well and have a good Sunday.

[JHan]

1. K & R

[Foamfollower]

2. I see this Russian propaganda technique all over the placce.

Too many on the Left fall for it. So many fell for Jill Stein's and other's bullshit "whataboutism" that Trump got elected.

[Squinch]

3. Waaaaaaait a minute, there!! I've seen that happen RIGHT HERE!

[Wellstone ruled]

4. Similiar to Straw Man Reporting

which dominates Right wing Media.

[Warpy]

8. and with a little dose of the Slippery Slope Fallacy

http://www.pnl-nlp.org/download/propaganda/page2.htm

Learn your fallacies and you too can deconstruct propaganda for fun.

[Wellstone ruled]

14. Do it all the time,

amazing how people can be so gullible.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. Recognize them & shoot them down: Lists of Fallacies: taxonomies & discussions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/fallacies/

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments

https://bookofbadarguments.com

[sharedvalues]

7. Nice :)

[Honeycombe8]

9. I have noticed "whataboutisms." They are illogical and irrelevant, and fall outside

normal debating rules....because they don't relate to the matter being argued.

Example:

A: Trump lies all the time!
Response: Obama lied a lot!

The response is irrelevant to the initial claim and doesn't answer the original claim. It's a diversionary tactic, used to get the questioner to argue the response instead of continue with the initial claim (the original person claiming Trump lies would get sidetracked into an "Obama doesn't lie!" discourse).

This rarely works on me, but I see it used repeatedly, and it works on some.

[sharedvalues]

12. Exactly. Recognizing the diversion effort is important

[Cary]

10. Thank you

It's deflection. I'm sick and tired of it. Let's let them have it with both barrels.

[Hortensis]

11. Thank you, SharedValues. 'Preciate it.

If you have any tips for getting these fake-DUers post-removed and banned, by all means pass them on.

[Wednesdays]

13. I agree, but logic is un-American today

Not just Rump's knuckle-dragging minions, but the average American wouldn't know a non-sequitor from a hole in the ground. And even if you spell it out to them step-by-step, they still wouldn't see it.

Part of the reason why I've been on the brink of despair since November.

[sharedvalues]

15. Progressives can show the way!

The Democrats are the party of being thoughtful, considered, and caring.

We need to lead America back to a sane place, by example.

We can ignore the fallacies and propaganda and discuss the real issues.

[sharedvalues]

16. Also better education: more civics, stop homeschooling

As Schiff said - America needs better education in civics and thinking and how to recognize advertising and PR.

And we need to stop homeschooling, which is used by the right wing to keep their kids from learning how to think and learning about the world.

Progressives should work on both of these initiatives. They will be years-long efforts, but worth it for our country.

[FiveGoodMen]

17. Most extreme case (I think this fits) that I've seen

It's a horrific disgrace how cops keep shooting black men for no reason.

"Yeah, but black people commit crimes against other black people. What about that?"

[Kentonio]

18. I think its one of those things that can be over-exaggerated though.

Sometimes referring to an example of blatant hypocricy is totally called for. When someone talks about how horrible attacks on the west are, I think its perfectly reasonable to ask why its ok for us to bomb and kill 200 innocent people in the middle east. Sometimes those questions have to be asked, because otherwise the real solution will never be found.

[oasis]

19. K and R