NSA just lost control of its Top Secret arsenal of digital weapons - Snowden tweet today

[Kablooie]

Edward Snowden?
@Snowden
NSA just lost control of its Top Secret arsenal of digital weapons; hackers leaked it.
1) https://github.com/x0rz/EQGRP
2)https://medium.com/@shadowbrokerss/dont-forget-your-base-867d304a94b1
10:44 AM - 8 Apr 2017

The second link is a message from the shadowbrokers to Donald Trump.
They are the group that released the NSA digital info and it appears their dissatisfaction with Trump is the reason they are releasing the data.
The letter is obviously written by someone who's first language is not English due to grammatical mistakes.

Here are some excerpts:

Don’t Forget Your Base
Dear President Trump,
Respectfully, what the fuck are you doing? TheShadowBrokers voted for you. TheShadowBrokers supports you. TheShadowBrokers is losing faith in you. Mr. Trump helping theshadowbrokers, helping you. Is appearing you are abandoning “your base”, “the movement”, and the peoples who getting you elected.
---
The peoples whose voted for you, voted against the Republican Party, the party that tried to destroying your character in the primaries. The peoples who voted for you, voted against the Democrat Party, the party that hates, mocks, and laughs at you. Without the support of the peoples who voted for you, what do you think will be happening to your Presidency? Without the support of the people who voted for you, do you think you’ll be still making America great again? Do you be remembering when you were sitting there at the Obama Press Party and they were all laughing at you? Do you be remembering when you touring the country and all those peoples believed in you and supported you? You were those peoples hope. How do you be thinking it will be feeling when those people turn on you? Will they be laughing at you, hating you, and mocking you too?
---
Some American’s consider or maybe considering TheShadowBrokers traitors. We disagreeing. We view this as keeping our oath to protect and defend against enemies foreign and domestic. TheShadowBrokers wishes we could be doing more, but revolutions/civil wars taking money, time, and people. TheShadowBrokers has is having little of each as our auction was an apparent failure. Be considering this our form of protest. The password for the EQGRP-Auction-Files is CrDj”(;Va.*NlnzB9M?@K2)#>de7mN

[still_one]

1. Note, they aren't upset because trump is a racist, sexist, and xenophobe, because they knew that

before the POS was elected, and they supported him then

As for Snowden, I hope he is enjoying Putin's hospitality

[sharedvalues]

88. Snowden is Putin's tool on Twitter (sadly)

Yup while Snowden probably acted out of patriotism, he has now fallen into the clutches of Russian intelligence and Putin uses Snowden's tweets for propaganda.

Discussed here
https://20committee.com/2016/07/02/the-kremlin-admits-snowden-is-a-russian-agent/

[L. Coyote]

2. Like Gucifer, probaly fake.

[LaydeeBug]

79. you think Gucifer is fake?

[sharedvalues]

101. We know Snowden's tweets are Russian

https://20committee.com/2016/07/02/the-kremlin-admits-snowden-is-a-russian-agent/

Nobody I know in Western intelligence circles believes any of these claims of Snowden’s innocence. If he has not collaborated with Russia’s special services, he would be the very first defector since 1917 not to do so.

(This is sad for me. I think Ellsberg is an American hero. Snowden could have been too if he had released only a fraction of his huge document dump, much of which endangered real Americans for no disclosure advantage)

[L. Coyote]

112. Yes, a created persona to mask an identity.

[LaydeeBug]

131. Aaaah, so you think Gucifer is a handle, like L. Coyote or LayDeeBug

in which case, I agree with you

[Cryptoad]

3. Fuck you, Comrade Snowden!

[Kablooie]

5. Just to be clear, Snowden didn't have anything to do with this.

Other hackers, probably Russian, broke in and got this info, not Snowden.
He is just reporting it.

[Skidmore]

7. Begs the question...

how is he connected to know about it to "report" it? Snowden is a traitor and has played a role in the dismantling of democracy. Not a hero.

[nini]

24. exactly

the fact people can't see this and still make him a hero is mind boggling.

[delisen]

37. Snowden performed valuable service. He was the 4th in a list ofwhisleblowers-the three

who preceded him had their lives ruined.

[Me.]

54. "the three who preceded him had their lives ruined"

And so should he for handing over our internal information to our enemies and until he comes out from under Russia's wing he will never be considered anything but a traitor.

[Warpy]

78. Snowden didn't do this. He just pointed out who had

I guess we're still playing "shoot the messenger" at DU.

[Me.]

80. You & I Shall Have To Disagree About Snowden

I don't know if he did or did not participate in posting the recent info or was complicit in some way however, I do hold him accountable for what he did do

[Warpy]

81. Yes, he told us the government was snooping on everything we did

I think that was a damned fine thing to do and it pretty much ruined his life.

Most people didn't want to know that, I guess.

Even DC has grudgingly admitted from time to time that he didn't reveal anything important to the Russians.

So disagree away. We don't have to be disagreeable about it.

[Me.]

86. Precisely

"We don't have to be disagreeable about it"

[Hortensis]

92. Warpy, agree with you often, but we are all known by our friends.

Snowden needs to disavow these people, even though that may be problematic for him.

"Ruining" one's life is not infallible evidence of noble purpose, sometimes it just indicates someone who's screwed up, lacks adequate judgement or protective instincts. Like, oh, say, Newtie or Assange, or way too many others who've achieved a prominence that is itself a symptom of society's lagging control of new problems that the information age presents.

And sometimes it suggests both. Like almost everyone else, Snowden likely had various motivations for what he did, when he was significantly younger also. He's no kid now, though, his stature and voice have grown to planetary influence, and he should live up to the challenges. Prison? Oh, well. Nelson Mandela lived up to what the world needed from him.

[jrthin]

130. What most people want to know

is how a high school dropout lives in the manner Snowden does.

[Kablooie]

100. He did not just release information. He gave it to a couple of journalists he trusted.

Glen Greenwald and Laura Poitras.

He felt that they would release the story and the info in a responsible way which I believe they did.
They released descriptions of the functions but they didn't release any of the actual data and there is much they still have not released because it could endanger certain individuals.

Once he gave the data to them he got rid of all his copies so he would have no more access to it.
He didn't release anything publicly himself and I don't believe he would do so now.

My information comes primarily from the Laura Poitras documentary "Citizenfour" and a discussion with her after the screening I saw.

[Me.]

106. Can't Say I Believe He Got Rid Of All The Info

with due respect to Laura Poitras who I believe told the truth as to what she was told.

Room and board in the USSR must be paid and it looks to me much like he did.

[sharedvalues]

85. Snowden's tweets are Russian disinformation

So yes, if Snowden (really FSB) is the messenger the messenger is flawed.

[shenmue]

102. Indeed

[nini]

107. He didn't reveal one thing anyone who's been paying attention didn't already know

He is in Putin's pocket. No thanks.

[randome]

10. He's gleeful about it. He thinks it proves something.

[sharedvalues]

89. No, Putin is pushing this story via Snowden

Snowden's​ twitter is a Russian disinformation source now .

Putin controls Snowden's life and Putin controls Snowden's Internet postings. Putin uses Snowden for propaganda purposes. That's what happens when someone defects to another country with Intelligence info. CIA controls Russian defectors to America too.


https://20committee.com/2016/07/02/the-kremlin-admits-snowden-is-a-russian-agent/

[marybourg]

4. "The letter is obviously written by someone who's first language is not English

due to grammatical mistakes"

Of the type made by Russian speakers.

[woodsprite]

13. Or speakers from China, or other countries. n/t

[Blues Heron]

15. anybidy can rite like that if he want

[kerry-is-my-prez]

83. Lol! Yep - could be a dumbass Trump supporter.....

[Nictuku]

105. I was curious about that

Curious about the type of grammatical mistakes, where they might be common to.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Some actual information on what was leaked

The message on medium.com is meaningless; as you say, the use of English doesn't look like a native speaker, so their claims to have been primary supporters of Trump look like obvious bullshit that they'd know everyone would see through.

Snowden went on to tweet:

Quick review of the #ShadowBrokers leak of Top Secret NSA tools reveals it's nowhere near the full library, but there's still so much here that NSA should be able to instantly identify where this set came from and how they lost it. If they can't, it's a scandal.

Link to tweet

The elusive Shadow Brokers didn't have much luck selling the NSA's hacking tools, so they're giving more of the software away -- to everyone. In a Medium post, the mysterious team supplied the password for an encrypted file containing many of the Equation Group surveillance tools swiped back in 2016. Supposedly, the group posted the content in "protest" at President Trump turning his back on the people who voted for him. The leaked data appears to check out, according to researchers, but some of it is a couple of decades old and focused on platforms like Linux.

If anything, the leak might backfire. Edward Snowden notes that while the leak is "nowhere near" representing the NSA's complete tool set, there's enough that the NSA should "instantly identify" where and how the kit leaked. This doesn't mean the Shadow Brokers themselves are about to face capture. However, this may give the agency info it needs to both connect the dots (how much of a role did NSA contractor Harold Thomas Martin III play in the online leak, for instance?) and prevent a repeat incident.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/08/shadow-brokers-give-away-more-nsa-hacking-tools/

[oasis]

16. Traitor Snowden calling the situation a potential "scandal".

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. "Traitor Snowden"

[oasis]

22. He's warming himself by the campfires of the enemy as you write. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. He blew the whistle on surveillance of the American population, and his passport was withdrawn

when he was in Russia, trying to get to Latin America. The 'enemy' you see was chosen as his stopping place by the timing of the US government's actions.

[oasis]

29. I'm willing to let the courts decide his fate.

Most folks I know have a high degree of confidence in the American judicial system.

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. Trying to stay away from courts doesn't make someone a "traitor", does it? (nt)

[oasis]

47. Refusing to bring your case before a court of law is CLEARLY

a sign of GUILT. Period.

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. Hah. No, it's not. But you weren't calling him 'guilty', you were calling him a 'traitor'

which was what earned you the eyes and facepalm.

[oasis]

52. Snowden is guilty of treason. Okay? Clear enough?

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. If you think the enemies of the US government are the US people, and the world in general,

who are to whom he revealed the possibly illegal US government surveillance, then you can think of him as a 'traitor'. I guess it depends on whether you side automatically with the US government, or if you sometimes think about what's good for US citizens to know about what their government does to them.

[oasis]

75. He's welcome to present such a "defense" to jurors after

he emerges from his hidey hole with his Kremlin buddies.

[tazkcmo]

94. Not me

I know a lot that have zero trust/faith but they're all brown people. Does their opinion count, too?

[oasis]

115. What in hell does being a brown person have to do with it?

[tazkcmo]

116. Really?

We have a history in this country. I thought folks here would be aware of it especially concerning our justice system and people of color. I guess I shouldn't have assumed that. My bad.

[oasis]

119. Last I checked, Snowden was a WHITE person. nt

[tazkcmo]

129. sigh

The point is, not all share your faith in our justice system. Have a good night.

[sharedvalues]

40. False. Snowden's Twitter is approved by Russian Intelligence.

Snowden has tweeted in perfect German.
Did he learn German over night or are German-speaking Russian intelligence agents using him to spread disinformation?

https://20committee.com/2015/07/19/the-painful-truth-about-snowden/

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. I have no idea what German has to do with this

but he did work in Switzerland, so knowledge of German would hardly be surprising.

Do you think that Americans are unable to learn anything other than English, and need help from Russians to do so?

[guillaumeb]

55. This:

Do you think that Americans are unable to learn anything other than English, and need help from Russians to do so?

Given that most Americans are monolingual, the assumption is understandable. Snowden revealed much of what the world already knows about US tactics.

[sharedvalues]

57. Distraction alert. You're not denying Snowden a tool of Russia.

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. I was already alert to the distraction.

That's why I said "I have no idea what German has to do with this". It is truly bizarre that a thread about the release of hacked NSA tools has a sub-thread on whether Edward Snowden is a fluent German speaker. But it's good of you to admit you are trying to insert red herrings, like 'German', in the thread.

[sharedvalues]

84. So you concur Snowden is controlled by Russia now

If you didn't agree with me, you'd address my point rather than trying to distract onto other issues .

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. No, I don't concur with that at all

You haven't have a 'point'. You tried to lead a discussion of the leak of NSA tools into claims of whether Snowden can speak German or not. It's a complete red herring that you introduced, rather than discussing the thread topic.

If you introduce a distraction into a thread, and then start a follow-up post with "distraction alert", it's obvious that you wanted to talk about your distraction. It's absurd to then take my reply about your distraction as "concurring" with your thoughts about Snowden.

[2naSalit]

99. Wow...

that was some inventive pretzel logic there! I was trying to see where any of those claims you responded to had anything to do with anything, and they really don't.

Reminds me of bar-room machismo in the form of mansplained nonsense resulting in irrelevant challenges and insults upon rejection by reasonable people.

[Dr. Strange]

128. "He's fluent in German" is the new "He had boxes in his garage."

[brush]

113. You left out that he divulged info on our covert international operations also. He's a traitor.

[delisen]

111. Rightnow I reserve the term traitor for Republicans, as for Snowden

I as an American citizen wanted to know that which he revealed that the government would not tell me.

[Achilleaze]

8. Bannon bounced from NSC. NSA digital "secrets" leaked. republicans go golfing.

russians rejoice.

[nocalflea]

9. Not a big Snowden fan .

- In case you might not have seen this. A analysis of the shadow-brokers post purportedly shows them to be native english speakers.

"The author is a native English speaker trying to pass himself off as a foreigner," Jeffrey Carr, CEO of cybersecurity company Taia Global, told Motherboard.

For example, the hackers omit definite and indefinite articles, confuse past and present tense, and miss the infinitive "to." Yet, the spelling is entirely correct throughout the text, and the errors are inconsistent, and there are grammatical errors in idioms that a low-skilled English speaker wouldn't probably know.
"

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/the-shadow-brokers-nsa-leakers-linguistic-analysis

[Kablooie]

18. That's interesting but explains why they'd be Trump fans.

Doesn't make much sense why foreigners would care so much about Trump.

[sharedvalues]

41. Russia cares about Trump's political support

Because Trump drives a wedge between America and our allies like Germany and NATO.

Weaker NATO and weaker America are good for Putin.

[Demsrule86]

11. Sounds like bullshit to me.

[sharedvalues]

87. Yup. Snowden is Russian disinformation now

He's controlled by the Russian FSB. He probably acted for patriotic reasons but now his whole life is controlled by Russian intelligence and he has no choice but to do what they ask.

[Demsrule86]

123. I wonder if he regrets it...I mean was it really worth it?

[sharedvalues]

124. Just young and dumb and idealistic I think

Snowden seems to be motivated by a mix of job resentment and patriotism.

The NSA set themselves up for Snowden by being so secretive. Snowden did America a service - with the first 1% of docs he released. The last 99% made him a criminal, sadly. He could have made the same patriotic point by limiting disclosure.

Good odds Snowden was persuaded or recruited in some way by the Russians. And national security services believe Snowden is in part a cover for the true one or two still-uncovered Russian moles at NSA.

Ellsberg did what he did fully expecting to go to jail for life. He was more mature and thoughtful than Snowden. Snowden made a mistake defecting to Russia. Being a whistle blower comes with hard, hard choices. Your life is at risk.

[Demsrule86]

125. I head a CIA guy on MSNBC...talking about how Russia target young people like

Snowden...I bet he was groomed ...and his resentments encouraged...and now the poor kid is screwed.

[sharedvalues]

127. Yup. And now he's a Putin propaganda tool too.

When he is no longer useful Putin will jail/kill/deport him.

I feel bad for him. Whistleblowing is serious and risky. He was not thoughtful enough to come out unscathed.

[caroldansen]

12. Well theres at least one good thing, more people are are dissatisfied with trump.

[Squinch]

14. Didn't that happen last summer? How many times are the NSA going to lose their top secret stuff?

I'm not questioning you, Kablooie, I believe Snowden said this, and that the Shadow Brokers are lashing out at Trump, but the Shadow Brokers sold off the NSA's hacking secrets to the highest bidder last summer. So what are they talking about?

[Kablooie]

17. I think this is more of the cache they hacked along with a password.

They only released a small amount last time.

[bettyellen]

26. I think that, like the "emails" they try to find ways to extend the "scandal" by releasing bits and

Saving others (or like the Comey thing, force is to relook at old information again) for later release. I'm also reminded the plans were always to mix in a bit of fiction with the truth, and or reframe it for maximum damage.

Why believe thieves and traitors who say "they got everything"?

[Squinch]

58. Extending the scandal and getting their names in the paper and an ego bump. I'm so sick of these

children. The NSA AND the hackers. It's like a big game of king of the hill with no benefit to anyone.

[Foamfollower]

19. Snowden is a traitor who deserves a traitor's fate.

He gave aid to the enemy in a cyber war.

[ronnie624]

21. Has the US government ever engaged in "cyber war"?

Has it ever influenced political outcomes in other countries for self-serving reasons?

[MineralMan]

25. I don't know. Do you?

If you do, please provide detailed information, with links. Thanks.

[ronnie624]

28. You already know the answer, as does anyone with an interest in history. n/t

[MineralMan]

30. Your reply is short on supporting information, I'm afraid.

No, I don't know the answer. Show me.

[ronnie624]

33. I don't need any "supporting information" on this topic.

This is Democratic Underground.

[bettyellen]

27. Ah, the "we deserve this" gambit. I'm not buying what you're selling.

[ronnie624]

32. Governments engage in clandestine activities, in attempts to promote their agendas.

That's just the nature of things. If the official version of events is true, and the Russian government really did hack the DNC and reveal embarrassing information, it's not that big of a deal, in the overall scheme of things, especially when compared to US activities, like the toppling of democracies in various parts or the world.

The current problems in the US, have nothing to do with Russia. Americans are in dire need of some serious introspection.

[bettyellen]

35. It's the candidate working with a foreign nation that is the problem. And I bet you knew that but

Prefer to muddy the waters with this "whataboutism".
nonsense.

[ronnie624]

39. What do you mean by "working with a foreign nation"? n/t

[bettyellen]

51. LOL, as if Trump and half his staff aren't in deep w Russia. You're funny!

Talking about "avoiding the facts" and then this?

[ronnie624]

63. It isn't even clear what your accusation is.

Can you be more specific? All billionaires are "in deep" with lots of other countries.

[bettyellen]

67. Oh my-it seems you have a lot of catching up to do, LOL.

[ronnie624]

70. I understand.

The predominating narrative tends to collapse with honest scrutiny.

[bettyellen]

71. Vague nonsense. Clearly state what you think is happening or put a sock in it.

[ronnie624]

90. I tend to point out American chauvinism and hypocrisy when I see it.

It's just a habit.

And I don't hate the Democratic party. It is vastly preferable to the alternative in our unrealistic, thoroughly compromised political dichotomy. I just think it needs some serious realignment to be a party for working people.

Now, what, specifically, is the nature of the collusion between the Trump administration and the Russian government?

[bettyellen]

95. Except you really aren't pointing to anything specific that Dems have done while broadbrushing them

In with GOP lawmakers in order to make "they're all corrupt" excuses to dismiss the evidence discussed by those investigating collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. Pretending you know nothing about it isn't a clever gambit, either. It's just a stupid game because you're implying exactly what the GOP obstructionists are -that things aren't yet proven at the start of the hearings- so that there's nothing there that matters. Guess what? You're as wrong as they are with that "whataboutist" bullshit and playing dumb. We both know better. Goodbye.

[ronnie624]

98. Any political system that depends on private monetary donations

is designed to enable the purchase of influence. It is the very epitome of the concept of corruption.

[bettyellen]

108. And republicans are making sure it stays that way by stacking the USSC ....

Next you'll tell me HRC shouldn't have said anything about the elections in Russia because foreign policy doesn't matter- is important only to "corporate shills" and "America first" because oligarchs are the biggest problem ever. LOL. Yeah, I heard that shit on a loop for eighteen months too.

[ronnie624]

114. Elections in other countries are none of our business,

especially when our own are so flawed.

[bettyellen]

117. Libertarian isolationist bullshit. Works well in small homogeneous rural states I guess....

Dems are fed up with this don't care about anyone but ourselves crap- nationalist bullshit caught on in the sticks, where people are afraid of foreigners because those people are afraid of them. Suckers.

[ronnie624]

121. I'm for cooperative engagement with other countries, not coersion and force.

And I'm a socialist, which is about as far from American defined libertarianism, as one can get.

[bettyellen]

122. You share the libertarian isolationist crap about ignoring human rights abuses then...

It's as simplistic as all the other nationalists we've seen lately. According to you we have no right to even comment on oppressive regimes, so yeah.... it's selfish isolationist bullshit, no matter what you try and dress it up as.

[ronnie624]

126. You apparently don't understand the definitions of the words you use.

Take care, bettyellen.

[bettyellen]

132. No, I understand you want to pretend Dems are as bad as the GOP when it comes to

Brass tax, and that the entire USA is so dirty, no one here has a right to comment on anything going on in the rest of the world. You've oversimplified a whole lot of shit, basically to claim Dems are as bad as the worst our countries (and others) have ever suffered under. It's bullshit and we both know it.

[sharedvalues]

43. Often called "Whataboutism"

[Foamfollower]

31. No.

And I am under no obligation to prove a negative.

You are making allegations. Prove them.

[ronnie624]

34. There is a very rich historical record on this issue.

You already know the answer to my rhetorical questions.

[Foamfollower]

45. Asserting it is so is not PROVING it is so.

Ergo, I have no compelling reason to believe it is so.

[ronnie624]

49. Lol. n/t

[sharedvalues]

42. Whataboutism!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

"Whataboutism is a term describing a propaganda technique used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world during the Cold War."

[ronnie624]

48. That's obviously a made-up term for avoiding the facts of a given issue. n/t

[JHan]

53. naw it's based on the Tu quoque fallacy, which is real.

like what you are doing in this thread.

[ronnie624]

59. It's purpose is to enable an avoidance of cognitive conflict.

Embracing opposing belief systems is very uncomfortable.

[JHan]

61. that's a good word - avoidance, because whataboutism is precisely that..

.... avoiding the point. It is distraction. Wikipedia has a great example:

An example would be
Peter: "Based on the arguments I have presented, it is evident that it is morally wrong to use animals for food or clothing."
Bill: "But you are wearing a leather jacket and you have a roast beef sandwich in your hand! How can you say that using animals for food and clothing is wrong?"[2]

It is a fallacy because the moral character or past actions of the opponent are generally irrelevant to the logic of the argument.[3] It is often used as a red herring tactic and is a special case of the ad hominem fallacy, which is a category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of facts about the person presenting or supporting the claim or argument.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

That way the point is never dealt with.

Another example: Say you and I have a debate on climate change, and you are arguing that man made contribution to climate change is real, and I deny this, but I go further and claim that because you drive an SUV, or your personal choices impact the climate negatively, your arguments are hypocritical - if I do this I would be guilty of the tu quoque fallacy , or "whataboutism" .

[ronnie624]

65. So instead of talking about made-up words,

why don't you address the issue that I'm trying to avoid?

[emulatorloo]

68. More deflection. Deflection is at the core of "Whataboutism"

[JHan]

74. what, that nations do bad things?

that's a shocker.

America has done bad things, she must never criticize? So has the U.K.. France,.. Germany...every country in the world has been guilty of some crime - see the pointlessness of such a position?

The purpose of whataboutism is to blur the lines, it's a race to the bottom where "truth" is decided by the narrative of whichever propaganda wins, where objective standards of "right and wrong" mean nothing. An Assad propagandist may argue "America has no right to tell us anything, because of < insert atrocity here> " In fact they can go as far back as they like, avoiding the tragedy of any calamities of their own making. It is changing the subject, pivoting away from the point so no one is ever held accountable for anything. Sounds like a Putinesque paradise.

[ronnie624]

93. We're only responsible for the conduct of our own government.

Talking about what other countries do, which we have no right to control, is an attempt to evade reponsibility.

[JHan]

97. That's not the way the world has worked...

Last edited Sun Apr 9, 2017, 05:17 PM - Edit history (1)

We have treaties, alliances and agreements because nothing could ever be just our responsibility - that's leaning towards isolationism. Countries work collectively on issues that impact all states whether global warming or poverty. The U.N. exists for a reason. And the promise of 21st century civilization will be global - global co-operation, cosmopolitanism, diversity and hopefully peace. Human rights violations around the world already impact us and war impacts our lives whether we're in direct conflict or not - from the price of gasoline to the type of cars we drive, to the goods available in our markets. This is why international law works best when everyone is on board. And with everyone on board, responsibility is shared and there is greater accountability. Because it hasn't all worked perfectly doesn't mean it hasn't worked at all. You should give Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of our Nature a read ( if you haven't already)



Edited for clarity>

[ronnie624]

103. If only it was the way you fantasize it to be.

Your post assumes the US doesn't act unilaterally or through coercion and force most of the time, or that it hasn't been the worst human abuser since the Third Reich.

Typical American denialism.

[JHan]

104. No one is being denialist...

and I never argued perfection. You, on the other hand, seem to think the bad actions of America excuses the bad actions of other countries, even when they attack us.

[bettyellen]

109. I knew it- no foreign policy is good foreign policy, LOL. That's what some people rationalize when

They don't have and "easy answers", if only we could give free college to the whole world, yeah- that's the ticket!

[ronnie624]

118. So if we're not coercing or forcing our will on other countries,

that amounts to "no foreign policy".

Your posts are confused and essentially incoherent.

[bettyellen]

120. You think making alliances and treaties are always bad- it's a childish world view.

I'm not sure why you're here spewing Libertarian nonsense, but you appear to be lost in more ways than I can count.

[sharedvalues]

56. Propagandists love whataboutism!

Whataboutism is a term describing a propaganda technique used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world during the Cold War.

[emulatorloo]

66. Look, it is totally fine that you don't give a shit about Putin's interference in the 2016 election

and you need to make excuses for that interference with the "whatabout" nonsense.. Just own up to it.

[bettyellen]

69. It's basically a symptom of CDS. This "so what" about collusion between Trump and Russia....

Using the exact same "prove it" talking points that we've seen from most of the GOP obstructionists. Word for word.

[emulatorloo]

72. yep. Or just gullibility. Some naively believe Putin's a leftist. Or something

It is also about drawing false equivalencies, which is popular too with some folks.

[bettyellen]

76. Every time I see this now and I look into post history - they all pushed the HHate propaganda ...

and this is their new thing. Its always been about hating the Democratic Party. That's the only consistency one finds.

[emulatorloo]

77. Yes, Russian intelligence knew their audience and targeted the message perfectly

[bettyellen]

110. And now they say we don't even have a right to speak about what other nations do.....

Gosh, who thought all foreign policy was a bad thing, aside from idiot Libertarians and Donald Trump? It's a real head scratcher, LOL.

[sharedvalues]

36. Snowden's tweets are written by Russian Intelligence

https://20committee.com/2015/07/19/the-painful-truth-about-snowden/

I'm as pro-whistleblower as can be.
I think Ellsberg is a hero.
Disclosing the NSAs secret programs (with limited docs redacted to avoid risk to individuals) is a good thing for America.

But Snowden is now a tool of Russian disinformation. See article above.
Ignore his tweets.

[FakeNoose]

73. Yes I believe you're right about this

Also the Wikileaks guy Julian Assange is another Putin-tool.
We'll never know if Snowden actually wrote those words, but that's the point.
As long as somebody is writing shit and saying it's from Snowden, it's enough to cast doubt and that's their goal.

For all we know Snowden could be dead already.

Just sayin'

[NastyRiffraff]

44. Written by someone whose first language isn't English.

Too many mistakes that a non-native English speaker commonly make.

[salin]

64. Daily Beast has an interesting article about this

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/09/hackers-warn-trump-to-get-back-in-line-on-syria.html

[Dawson Leery]

82. Eddie better watch it, he is a half step away from

becoming a digital Anwar Al-Awlaki, at which point he will lose ALL Constitutional protections.