Why are people giving Bernie all the credit for Hillary's education plan?

[pnwmom]

During the campaign, they were criticizing Hillary for not supporting "free tuition for all."

But now that Bernie has introduced what was essentially HER plan -- with benefits for families with incomes up to $125K, he's getting all the credit for it.

Typical. How many times have men been given all the credit for something women did? (Anyone read Hidden Figures? Times haven't changed that much, unfortunately.)

And since he thought his own plan was SO MUCH BETTER, why isn't his plan the one in his bill?

http://www.shakesville.com/2017/04/breaking-man-takes-credit-for-womans.html?m=1

BREAKING: Man Takes Credit for Woman's Idea That He Repeatedly Said Was Garbage

Posted by Melissa McEwan at Tuesday, April 04, 2017

On a scale of 0-1, how shocked are you to hear that the higher education plan Bernie Sanders introduced is essentially Hillary Clinton's plan, which Sanders roundly criticized during the campaign?

The legislation outlined by Sanders Monday, which Democrats are calling College for All, would make public colleges and universities tuition-free to students with family income up to $125,000; make community colleges tuition-free; cut student loan interest rates in half; and triple funding for the Federal Work-Study program.

Emphasis mine. That was the biggest distinction between Clinton's and Sanders' plans: Clinton did not believe that students whose families could afford college tuition needed to have their education subsidized. Sanders resoundingly dismissed out of hand that qualification throughout the Democratic primary.

[redstatebluegirl]

1. I have said this before. I liked Bernie, but he is getting on my last nerve right now.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

6. Mine too

Last edited Wed Apr 5, 2017, 05:50 PM - Edit history (1)

He's being treated as the "savior of the Democratic Party" and his every word is like a gospel to some people.......even though he isn't even a (currently registered) Democrat. Furthermore, his ongoing attacks on the Democratic Party are stupid and counterproductive when we should be expending more energy on fighting Trump and winning elections against Republicans. Plus, he seems obsessed with courting Trump "WWC" voters on the theory that the Democrats just didn't reach out to them enough- as though nothing else matters or is more important to the Democratic Party or the country than the "economic anxieties" of a group of people whom will be harmed- and never helped- by Trumpublican policies.

[ATL Ebony]

76. +1. Agree 100%

[calimary]

95. Welcome to DU, ATL Ebony!

MAN is this ever a wild time.

My husband and I are so frustrated by now. We're both on edge a lot of the time. We've been together for what seems like forever by now, and we both can remember Watergate and Iran/Contra. Gotta tell you - it just shakes one's faith. We've each seen dozens of election seasons, midterm and presidential. Since 1968, although he's a little older than I am and that year, he was more wide-awake politically than I was. He doesn't post here. Nevertheless, each of us would tell you that we have NEVER witnessed ANYTHING like what we're seeing out of this so-called "pResident" and his entourage. Never! This is freakin' INSANE.

Our son was talking about it the other day. He's following the misadventures of Captain Chaos closely and enjoys talking politics, and he's developed into a FINE young Democrat (like his sister is)! He's quite well-informed. And he can't believe this, what he's seeing play out now. I told him this is probably gonna be his generation's Watergate-type governmental crisis. He's in a band and his bandmates feel much the same way! I couldn't believe how astutely his lead guitarist pegged EVERYTHING so far.

I think people are waking up. At least I hope so. I think we may be entering a "shit just got real" era, if indeed we're not there already.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

130. Used to love him, was about his #1 fan, but he is not being helpful now. He's believing his own PR.

We need every hand on deck and to work together.

[Cha]

192. When the opposite is true

[Hekate]

18. Amen

[Eliot Rosewater]

53. I would tell you what I really think about him and Thom

but when I do I take mountains of shit for it so I wont.

[trueblue2007]

70. Because I'm tired to death of him.

By the end of the election and Hillary had won the primary, Bernie was still yelling. I had gotten pretty fed up with him at that point. He is Sooooooooo loud. ALL I sure hope he doesn't run next time.
If he thinks he will run again as a Democrat .... HE BETTER THINK AGAIN. He is NOT a Democrat, he is an INDEPENDENT.

I would truly love a YOUNGER person to take up leadership. I like Gov. Jennifer Granholm, Joaquin Castro, D-Tex., and his twin brother, Julián Castro, Brothers just to name a couple.

[ATL Ebony]

78. Love those Castro bros, either one for 2020 will do.

[Gothmog]

134. I like both of the Castro brothers

[calimary]

90. He's been on my nerves for quite some time.

Seems like all he's doing now is trying to keep us all divided and at each other's throats, and keep himself in the spotlight. Must miss that "I feel like a rock star" thing, I guess.

He's still such a divisive element, and he abandoned our party after primary season - which still bothers me. I thought he was okay, for awhile. Never felt any Bernie love, though. At this point I doubt I ever will.

[Cha]

195. Yes, he's trying and it's working.. he

keeps doing it.. he won't stop.

Fine.. we're not going to stop calling him on it, either.

[Gothmog]

132. Agreed-Sanders is getting on my nerves also

[leftstreet]

2. Is she out talking about her education plan?

[pnwmom]

4. Why isn't he introducing his own education plan -- the one he insisted was so much better than hers?

[leftstreet]

8. I don't know. Maybe he's changed his mind?

Maybe he decided he preferred Hillary's?

Not sure why he's expected to give credit to her though. Obama didn't credit the GOP for the ACA - which was originally a GOP plan

[pnwmom]

9. Or maybe criticizing her bill was just politics. He never really meant it. How about that? n/t

[R B Garr]

12. +1000, that's what it looks like. nt

[leftstreet]

30. Well, he's a politician. So is she

You could be right

[Gothmog]

135. I think that you are correct on this

[kcr]

227. That's exactly it.

Hillary's plan then: It's not enough! She's a corporate shill! The Dem party is the status quo! I'm the revolution! Join me! Dem party bad! He stays in primary till the bitter end, trashing the convention, doesn't support her in the GE, Hillary loses. Forward to now: Look what we have here! The plan that wasn't enough! Only now he's calling it his. And it's not like we even have a prayer of getting it now anyway, because look who we got instead, no thanks to him.

Bernie fans can't figure out why this is infuriating. Really? And this is far from the only thing he's done this with.

[sheshe2]

23. That is incorrect.

Obama to hail Romney's health care plan


David Jackson, USA TODAY Published 8:57 p.m. ET Oct. 29, 2013 | Updated 9:00 p.m. ET Oct. 29, 2013

President Obama visits Boston to discuss the Affordable Care Act and its similarities to Mitt Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts

President Obama promotes his health care plan Wednesday by praising the efforts of a political rival: Mitt Romney.

The president visits Romney's home base of Boston for a speech in which he'll say that Obamacare is based largely on the health care plan that Romney installed as governor of Massachusetts, officials said.

"It really does serve as the blueprint for the Affordable Care Act," said David Simas, an Obama deputy senior adviser for communications and strategy.

More: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/29/obama-obamacare-romney-massachusetts-plan/3307133/

[Fla Dem]

83. He actually did many times credit it as Mitt Romey's plan. nt

[ATL Ebony]

89. Really?? I believe he did state he wanted to modify the MA plan and make it nationwide.

Although the MA plan (modified by Romney) originated via the GOP

[Baitball Blogger]

10. Here's a crazy idea.

Maybe he's pushing a plan that would appeal to the Hillary supporters. Isn't that the point of supporting politicians? To enforce good public policy?

[LiberalLovinLug]

69. Some need an enemy

The worst thing in the world would be for Bernie and Hillary to come together and back the same plan.

[pnwmom]

74. Then why doesn't he credit her, like Obama credited Mitt Romney for the ACA? n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

94. Because Obama was trying to point out the ridiculousness of looney toon idiot partisans...

.... causing a stink just over a plan they liked anyways.

[Beartracks]

59. His plan didn't get him the nomination, while Hillary's...

... plan got her the popular vote in the general.

No rocket science here; he may simply be proposing a plan he knows has broader appeal than his plan apparently had.

=================

[pnwmom]

75. Then why did he disparage her plan for over a year? n/t

[ATL Ebony]

81. Does it matter that she's not talking about it, at the moment?

Does that mean it's free 4 all.

[Orrex]

101. What office does she currently hold?

[George II]

107. She's not in the House or Senate. She DID when she was a candidate.

[beam me up scottie]

201. Nope. And the senators who introduced this bill are simply doing their jobs.

I'm not exactly certain what Bernie and the others are supposed to do to make Melissa happy. Quit doing their jobs because introducing legislation is upsetting her?

[moriah]

249. She did on the stump, just as she did about needing a individual mandate...

... for health care reform in 2008. Obama ran on a "no mandate" original plan.

But once she wasn't a contender or actually in the legislative or executive branch areas, she herself probably kept any advice for President Obama private regarding her reasoning for a mandate... and if there wasn't any advice, then he realized she had been right on the stump.

Similarly, with Bernie actually poised to be able to introduce legislation when she can't, if any advice is being given it's being done privately, or Bernie's CBO analysis attempt at a "free public university" system showed it would never get through Congress even if Democrats were in control.

Stump promises that sound great often require major tweaking before becoming law -- even when the ACA passed and we had control of the Congress and Senate. I'm not going to criticize him for deciding on the better, more workable idea to introduce now given it can sit in committee for possibly years and perhaps come to a vote when it won't die a flaming death even with Hillary's ideas included.

[Gothmog]

3. I was also wondering about this

[sheshe2]

5. I would like an answer to that as well.

[TheBlackAdder]

7. Disqus user RoughlyPolished sums up the issue the best. It's worth a read.

[QC]

17. Yeah, but that kind of thinking is no good at all

for ginning up a good primary-rehash-by-proxy.

But that commenter is right...he was advocating affordable college when the Clinton campaign was still dismissing it as free stuff.

The important thing here is that the average B.A. is graduating with over $30k in debt, and there is growing support for dealing with that injustice.

[zentrum]

143. Yup. It's a Re-hash which

...is not useful at this time.

Maybe she'll join him on one of his cross-country trips. It's the relief for students that matters. Isn't that what Hillary cares about as much as Bernie?

I love that he's shouting and still making noise. It's continuing to recruit young people and students into being Democrats.

[yardwork]

157. And the people who put Trump in the White House made sure that won't change.

If we had all gotten together and elected the Democrat, that might change. It can't at this point.

[caroldansen]

11. Im hoping its because they lost her email address and not to rob her of the credit.

[Iggo]

13. That's it. I'm voting for Clinton. When's the primary?

[pnwmom]

14. This is NOW. A man is being given all the credit for a woman's idea. Are you fine with that?

[Iggo]

15. Unacceptable! He won't get away with it! When's that damned primary!

[JTFrog]

19. Maybe check RT for date and time! nt

[Iggo]

27. I was hoping the Clinton '16 campaign could point me in the right direction. GOTV!

[JTFrog]

28. More like fishing, lol.

But whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Iggo]

29. Why have they gone fishing? They have a primary to win, goddamit!

[R B Garr]

32. It was just a few days ago he introduced her plan. nt

[Iggo]

166. Then we still have time! Gotta get ready for that primary! GOTV!

[R B Garr]

169. Tell that to him. There was just a news story on

my iPhone that he was blaming her for things that he actually smeared her about. So he's still to this day hung up on maligning her. Now look what we have.

[Cha]

162. This is about now.. Hillary's plan is the best.. she should

get credit for it.

[The Big Ragu]

22. Bernie and Hillary probably aren't as upset as you seem to be

chillax bub.

[pnwmom]

25. Your gender is showing. n/t

[The Big Ragu]

26. you're showing something

i reckon.

[trueblue2007]

79. i am sick and tired of that crap. that is why i don't like him.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. .......................

[progressoid]

179. Hahahaha!

[beam me up scottie]

202. LMAO!

Perfect.

[LakeArenal]

16. Damned if he does damned if he doesn't...

While you prefer the Clinton plan you disparage Bernie for pushing it. You want Bernie to support Hillary Clinton but he's damned if he does. Is Bernie calling it "his" plan?

That article does what DU says we shouldn't do anymore: rehash the primary and election.

Paraphrasing: "Sanders would shout that Clinton wasn't progressive enough.." Sheesh, tell us something we didn't know.

Without resorting to personality... Is it a good plan or a bad plan? If it's a bad plan is it still better than a repug plan? Isn't that the debate?

[pnwmom]

24. Why didn't he introduce his OWN plan, since he insisted it was so much better?

And why is a man getting all the credit now for a woman's idea?

[LakeArenal]

65. Is he getting ALL the credit? No one here is giving him any credit.

Again I ask, is he calling it "his" plan? Obviously he thinks it is the better plan... I will agree when someone posts exactly where he calls it "his ". Either way, let's just call it Hillary Clinton's damn good plan.

[pnwmom]

67. He didn't credit Hillary. He just introduced the bill with his name on it, and people here

have been applauding him for it.

[Heartstrings]

131. Really, why all the debate on what it's "called", who said what first, a man or a woman...

it's basically what they both wanted so cut him some slack...geesh! Pretty positive if this ever passes he'll give some credit to HRC...until then let him warrior on.

[unitedwethrive]

20. I was wondering the same thing!

I thought Bernie was going to make all state schools free for everyone, regardless of income. One of the many reasons that I did not support him. There is no way anybody but me and my partner should pay for our kids to go to college. It would be an absolutely irresponsible use of government funds, when we can easily afford it.

[FDRsGhost]

139. You don't think people should have free college because you have to pay for others?

Seriously?

[Ezior]

148. I interpreted it to mean the opposite

unitedwethrive doesn't want others to pay for their kids, because they are apparently wealthy parents and can afford to pay for it on their own.

I think it's okay to have "free" education for everyone, even very very rich kids. Just raise taxes on richer households (and maybe a little bit for other households as well) to pay for it, so they will gladly pay their taxes and get free college for their kids in return.

[unitedwethrive]

155. No. I loved Hillarys plan

Those that need free college should have it, but it is a waste of taxpayer money to pay for kids from families like mine, who make plenty to pay for it themselves. Trust me, I am the kind of person you want on your side, a 1%er who is willing to pay significantly more in taxes for excellent social programs that provide a safety net to everyone. I know that my two physician family has benefited greatly from this country, and it is only fair that we give back.

[FDRsGhost]

158. Got it, thank you for clarifying

[LakeArenal]

146. That's how public education works...

My dad's taxes paid for me to go to public school. My taxes pay for your kids to go to school Wait.. I don't have kids.. Say what, then why am I paying for your kids to go to school? Because, that's how it works...

[JHan]

21. Not surprising, in fact expected.

For all the bombs being lobbed at the party which we don't need, and the unnecessary "friendly" fire, I'm glad he's on board with a plan from the party's candidate.

I guess that's progress.

[diva77]

31. Sometimes I think Karl Rove is trolling DU-why all the criticism of Bernie,a great public servant

Bernie represents what it means to be a true Democrat. Who cares whether he declares himself Independent. The Democratic party has been getting yanked to the right --notice some of the DINOS out there. Bernie is helping to correct some of that. He's working hard at writing great legislation that will benefit us all such as the Medicare For All Healthcare Plan. He is out there spreading the word about what has gone wrong with 1% having all the wealth, etc.

Then people attack him on his strength -- very Rovian. To those who are fed up with Bernie, or Ralph Nader, etc. you've been duped by Karl Rove tactics.

[FDRsGhost]

40. +1

[RandiFan1290]

43. I notice the attacks on Bernie increase

as more bad news comes out for the dumpster.

[pnwmom]

98. Bernie reminded us of his unfair attacks on Hillary when he attacked her just this week

saying that she didn't address the needs of working families and that's why she lost. (Not because of the deplorables, or Russia, or Comey.)

He was wrong. Her plan to help working and middle class families (but not wealthy families) afford college was one of her many policies aimed at the middle and working class.

[Cha]

257. Yes, he was Wrong.. and Hillary's plan

was the best.

Thank you, pnwmom

[beam me up scottie]

209. I noticed the same thing on Twitter.

A lot of Twitterites ramp up the attacks on our leaders whenever Trump gets criticized in the news.

It's a distraction and it's also a damned good way for our enemies to keep us at each other's throats.

Divided we fall.

[George II]

238. What "attacks on Bernie"? I don't/didn't see any.

[melman]

243. Wow

Who could have guessed?

[beam me up scottie]

245. *snort*

[BadgerMom]

46. +1

So, so sick of the rehash. That election's over. Look forward with eyes more experienced.

[womanofthehills]

123. Agreed - Bernie is the one who is out there doing a great job.

[kcr]

222. Yeah, great job. Those bills will pass and it will be wonderful!

I can't wait for medicare for all and free college. There's no reason for anyone to be upset at all!

...

[beam me up scottie]

246. Why would anyone be upset that our senators are introducing progressive legislation?

Nothing we introduce now has a snowball's chance in hell of passing but they're not giving up and I respect them for it. I don't want them to sit around and just play defense for the next two to four years.

Progress comes when people keep fighting for what's important, even when the odds are against them.

So I agree: great job senators and congresspeople!

Keep it up, America is watching.

[LakeArenal]

128. Oui Oui!

[joet67]

48. +1.

[QC]

54. Bingo! n/t

[leftstreet]

56. +1

[LiberalLovinLug]

57. So right

Bernie represents what it means to be a true Democrat. Who cares whether he declares himself Independent. The Democratic party has been getting yanked to the right --notice some of the DINOS out there. Bernie is helping to correct some of that. He's working hard at writing great legislation that will benefit us all such as the Medicare For All Healthcare Plan. He is out there spreading the word about what has gone wrong with 1% having all the wealth, etc.

Then people attack him on his strength -- very Rovian. To those who are fed up with Bernie, or Ralph Nader, etc. you've been duped by Karl Rove tactics.

Very well put!

[pangaia]

61. Well, he really ISN'T a Democrat, don'tcha know.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

118. You should notify Chuck Schumer and/or the Democratic Party Senate Leadership page webmaster

See that guy listed as Chairman of Outreach on the Democratic Leadership page?

That's The Honorable Bernard Sanders.


https://democrats.senate.gov/leadership/#.WOVvnJE8KhA

[klook]

133. WHAT???!?

Obviously the purity test needs updating!

[pangaia]

150. Hey there, Bin Sober.. I'm with you on this....

Should I have used the sarcasm thingy? :&gt )

[Hassin Bin Sober]

174. Ah ha!! Got me!

[pangaia]

175. I gotta say, sometimes I can't tell either.

[George II]

239. Here is the function of that position:

"responsible for representing the views of Senate committee chairs to the chamber's Democratic leadership"

That is not how it's been portrayed around here.

[Quixote1818]

68. + 1 It's always the same people too. nt

[trueblue2007]

71. I think cuz he didn't support Hillary like he should have.

I had expected to see him supporting HILLARY like she supported BARACK in the election previously. And my friends, in my opinion, I didn't see that happen.

Dont you tell me I'm acting like Rove in not being all inlove with Bernie. I WAS IN LOVE WITH HILLARY. I remember Hillary's support of Obama. Every time I saw them hitting the campaign trail together, made me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO proud to be a Democrat. The looks made me feel they liked each other. And then he put his trust in Hillary.

I remember these pictures.



Then-Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama and Then-N.Y. Sen. Hillary Clinton wave to the crowd during a campaign rally in Orlando, Florida, in October 2008. Photo by Jim Young/Reuters

[FDRsGhost]

140. You mean like...

[progressoid]

184. ...

[Cha]

193. Those are just pictures.

[progree]

73. You have displeased someone bigly - your post was alerted on

"Don't bash Democratic public figures"

Somehow that's what they got out of your post.

[George II]

106. Nevertheless, she persisted.

[trueblue2007]

182. Nevertheless, she persisted. ....... i love that phrase.

[JCanete]

151. people and their alert happy tendencies here. Jesus. Both sides, stop it. fuck. nt

[dae]

77. You are 100% right!

👍🏼👍🏼

[pnwmom]

93. He was criticizing Hillary just the other day, saying that she didn't address the concerns of

working families and that's why she lost -- not because of racism, sexism, Islamophobia, Comey, and the Russians.

In truth, she spent her whole campaign talking about working people and the middle class and her college plan was part of that.

[nikibatts]

111. Maybe because he deserves it?

[MuseRider]

115. Very well said

thank you.

[Duppers]

124. If a Bernie supporter

Posts anything, it's rehashing and a no-no.

[OnionPatch]

129. Yep.

I never saw such never-ending attacks on a fellow progressive, as if he's the enemy. Don't we have some Republicans we can pick on? The primary is over but there sure are a lot of sore winners around here.

[zentrum]

145. +++++

[alarimer]

170. Exactly. This place gets on my last nerve.

[ecstatic]

181. The reason why Bernie gets attacked is simple:

In the past, Bernie constantly attacked and/or acted as if he was superior to good democrats and many people still resent him for that. When you act holier than thou but fail to live up to certain standards, that tends to get a strong reaction. Social psychology 101

[trueblue2007]

259. i agree with you and wish i could give your post a KICK and RECOMMEND!!!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

203. This. A million times this. I wish i could rec this post.

[murielm99]

33. I am so glad you posted this!

I thought I better show my support before it gets alerted and removed.

[cwydro]

34. I don't like Bernie and never have.

But I don't think all this primary-type fighting is helping us with the larger battle we have on our hands.

[joet67]

50. Right? nt

[NastyRiffraff]

35. Why indeed?

Perhaps he thinks if a MAN introduces it, it will be accepted. No thanks to the "little woman" of course, but who expected that?

[Else You Are Mad]

37. Simply put...

This bill is more likely to pass (which is just above a 0% chance in this political climate) than his would at this moment. He understands that getting something passed that can be built upon is better than nothing.


Instead of bickering about who's plan it was, why don't we focus on the goal of getting it passed. If we keep up this childish, schoolyard BS of insulting those that are fighting the GOP, we never will defeat the republicans.

[R B Garr]

41. Then he needs to be accountable for once and

explain why he demonized the Democrat over basically nothing.

[Else You Are Mad]

44. He didn't demonize anyone...

He was constructively criticizing the dems and not personally insulting them. And, not much of what he has said is necessarily incorrect.

This complacency of not critiquing Dems when they are going against the people's interests is why the democratic party is in the state that it is in.

[R B Garr]

49. Obviously this wasn't "against the people's interests"

since he just introduced it as his own. So he demonized the Democrat for nothing. Now look what we have.

[FDRsGhost]

38. Who the hell cares as long as it gets done!

Jeez you guys, please stop. This division is becoming petty at this point. "he said blah blah", "she said blah blah". We MUST come together. This plan, no matter who does it, is GOOD for people.

[Tom Rinaldo]

39. You could fairly call it "their plan"

It is not the plan that either of them originally ran on in the primaries. It seems to be what they worked out for the Democratic platform. It is not "essentially Hillary's plan". Hillary was advocating a "debt free" education plan - not tuition free. Bernie didn't have an income cap, Hillary did. This is the hybrid plan.

Hillary isn't in the Senate, Bernie is. If they both co-sponsored the bill I am sure he would call it "their plan".

[Lil Missy]

42. Bernie who??

[R B Garr]

45. lol, this is actually a very realistic and apt response!

His divisive rhetoric about Establishment Democrats run by his holdouts lost recently in a local Los Angeles race. If you can't win in Los Angeles, then that's it.

[tallahasseedem]

47. +1,000,000,000+

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Who cares? If it gets done I don't give a shit whose idea it was.

Anyhow, Bernie is still in the Senate and is in a position to sponsor legislation; Hillary isn't.

[LiberalLovinLug]

64. +1000

[pangaia]

176. On the money

[mcar]

52. Good question

[judesedit]

55. In defense of Hillary

[betsuni]

58. K&R

[saidsimplesimon]

60. "Typical"?

I thought the site rules prohibited any posts that would divide Democrats? Am I to assume it is OK to post about the low progressive voter turn out and why? Can we please unite and work on meaningful engagement with politicians at the local, state and federal level to remove the Koch Brothers Tea Party brigade from office?

[pnwmom]

72. What is typical is men getting credit for women's ideas. It happens every day in every sphere. nt

[saidsimplesimon]

82. pnwmom, you are correct.

In the business world this happens all the time and is not limited to women in my experience.

[butdiduvote]

87. This

[betsuni]

96. +1

[beam me up scottie]

204. Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand cosponsored the bill too.

Last I checked they also got credit and they're not men.

[R B Garr]

242. How phony. They also didn't demonize Clinton over

nothing.

[LiberalLovinLug]

62. His own plan is "pie in the sky" to the "just say no" Dems

(even though in another thread a poll on Republicans showed 50% supported Single Payer)

But if he compromises and moves closer to Hillary's more conservative plans then he's stealing her ideas!!!

Its a good thing that actual Democrats in office appreciate his efforts and are willing to work with him.

[MuseRider]

105. "Its a good thing that actual Democrats in office appreciate his efforts and are willing to work

with him."

He is doing what they have asked him to do and he is out in the media all the time like they asked him to do yet for those out here he is not to be regarded with anything but disdain. I cannot remember the last time I saw someone so media prominent, oh yes I can, it was Joe Biden with all the jokes about not standing between Joe and a microphone. He is doing the job they gave him in a way that astounds me, how does he have the energy?

Your entire post strikes true. Thank you.

I wish we could get over this. I sure do not recall seeing much in the way of calling out Hillary around here lately. Criticism is one thing, they both could use that from time to time but this is just childish neener neener stuff. Knee jerk reactions to his name and the fact that he had the gall to run against her and call her out on issues he thought were important. How could he? Oh yes, and the Democrat thing.

Bernie is introducing this so it is HIS bill. Hillary is a citizen at this point in time and if people want everything she ever spoke about to have her name on it then they probably need to take a pause and get over this. I would bet she is ok with this and understands it perfectly. Otherwise she would be upset about it and we would hear about it and every post for a week would be about this issue. Right now his name means more than hers does because he is working for us and was actually hired by us. When she finds her way back, if she choses to do so, she can do the same.

[LiberalLovinLug]

109. Well said

"childish" is the word that come to mind as well.

[zentrum]

147. She could even

...show up at one of his events. He had one last week. I'm sure she'd have been welcome and to come up and talk about her plan for helping college students.

As an older-than-millennial woman I don't care which gender gets the credit for this. It's damn good feminism---even if it's a man who gets it done.

What I care about is that more and more women can be educated. Go Bernie!

[pangaia]

177. I feel the same way.. Brava!

[SunSeeker]

63. K & R

[elmac]

66. ANOTHER circular firing squad

and the GOP loves it! Ready, Aim, FIRE!

[Iggo]

88. Yup.

[ornotna]

144. It sure is

And they keep shooting themselves in the foot in the process.

The Torture Never Stops.

[George II]

80. Brava!

[melman]

84. Pathetic thread

[roomtomove]

85. Give it up already...

on rehashing the election.
Instead go out and do something about the next election instead of pissing an moaning that your candidate lost.

[riderinthestorm]

136. Yup, it's way past time to set this aside and get on 2018 nt

[geek tragedy]

86. Who cares who gets 'credit' for a plan that will never get a committee hearing, let alone a vote

or become law?

This isn't an issue voters give a shit about. Millennials stayed him in droves despite Clinton offering this plan (and a very large number of them decided to piss away their vote on Gary Johnson or Jill Stein), so there's not much reason to think it'll be something Democrats will make a high priority when they do get back in power.

And if Millennials don't care about it enough to vote, why should those of us whose taxes would be paying for it?

[FailureToCommunicate]

91. Could it be that he's in a position to actually introduce the bill?

Believe me, I wish Hillary were President, but Congress still is where bills originate.

[pnwmom]

99. Why didn't he introduce his own bill? The one he insisted was SO MUCH BETTER?

Could it be that he always knew hers was better but just wouldn't admit it?

[all american girl]

160. pnwmom, I notice that there is no answer to that but, " just get over it"....

"Why isn't she out there"

"I don't care who does, as long as it's getting done, why are you so upset"

"I'm a woman, doesn't bother me if he's doing it"

Not actual quotes, but what is happening here, not understanding what you are trying to say...a woman's idea is not good enough unless a man suggests it.

It's like it can't be pointed out that a man (Bernie) is taking the credit that he does not deserve and we should just get over it because....reasons (sounds way too much like the primary).

[theaocp]

92. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.

[link:?cb=1414605230|

Put a couple thoughts behind this. Jeez.

[bluedigger]

97. Why can't you move on?

I doubt she was the first to think of it.

[pnwmom]

100. Why doesn't he? Just this week he was criticizing her for not aiming her campaign

at the needs of middle and working class families -- but here he is, adopting her college plan over his.

Because HERS is aimed at families up to $125K in income, not the wealthy.

[bluedigger]

103. Because he's still legislating and she's walking in the woods?

Criticize his methods if you must, but his motives and goals seem to be positive. I don't see anything beneficial in continuing to look for conflict between Bernie and Hillary, myself. It's disruptive.

[Cha]

152. Hillary's not "walking in the woods".. please try

to keep up.

[secondwind]

102. I think that Bernie is trying to push her plan because it may be more palatable than his. At least

he's trying to do something!

[juxtaposed]

104. This is such a sad post. This is what we have to look forward to in 2020.

[JTFrog]

108. You know why. nt

[oasis]

110. Maybe giving credit where credit is due is counter-revolutionary.

I'm just old fashioned.

[retrowire]

112. Has Bernie been asked about this and what is Hillary's take on this?

To those asking, "Who cares as long as it gets done?"

As a male feminist, I care.

I LOVE BERNIE. HE IS MY SPIRIT ANIMAL. I think he would have been better than Hillary.

BUT.

If he is knowingly taking her work and touting it as his own, then I'd have to call him to task for that.

But I don't think that's the case. That's why I have my questions in the title there.

[shireen]

113. sad to see this thread

Hillary Clinton adopted a lot of Bernie Sanders' education plans. And now he is being criticized for not crediting her.

A person does not come up with big initiatives on his/her own. Ideas come from many people, a great number who will never be known to us. But someone has to pull it together and present it, as another DU'er said, in a palatable form.

This place is exhausting. So much bitterness and anger. I find myself spending less and less time at DU because of this divisiveness.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-education.html

Hillary Clinton’s campaign announced a proposal on Wednesday to eliminate tuition at in-state public colleges and universities for families with annual incomes up to $125,000 — largely embracing a core position of Senator Bernie Sanders, who had pledged to make tuition at public institutions free for all students.

[JHan]

117. Not the point. Yes, in politics no ideas are completely original( like Univ Health Care) however

However policy implementation - how to make it work - does require some originality and even then someone somewhere at some time came up with the idea first.

But this post has context. Let's not pretend that there hasn't been lecturing that the Democratic party doesn't care, that the Democratic party doesn't know what it's for, and during the primaries - the insinuation that Hillary's own policy ideas somehow showed that she also really doesn't care about the issues because she had some disagreements with Sanders.

The corporate meme was hung around her neck unscrupulously, and after the election the ridiculous attacks continued with the smearing of Perez as " establishment" , an "Insider" who is part of the old system just because Obama and Clinton aides supported him running for chair.

So to see Sanders use this same policy plan once maligned is welcome but also mighty rich. There's room here to point to the hypocrisy. And the overall lesson is what you're alluding to in your post: Allies should NOT tear each other down, even if there are minor disagreements. Incrementalism doesn't make one a sell out.

[JCanete]

154. it is not the same plan. You know this. You know she changed it in July. Is it the same as that plan

Maybe. They seemed happy with that plan on both sides, but why are people pretending this is exactly what she campaigned on through the primary. It's just not true.

[JHan]

159. You're suggesting at some point Sanders didn't sell college for all regardless of income level?

And the core difference with clinton's was that she didn't want rich people accessing the relief so it will go to those who most need it..

The outline of the bill announced Monday hews closely to that final Clinton plan, including the promise that colleges and universities would be tuition-free for students from households earning less than $125,000. Sanders said Monday that would account for 80 percent of U.S. families. Cutting student loan interest rates, meanwhile, has for years been a favored policy of Democrats aiming to address college affordability.

And I see the avoidance of the core point here: The lithmus test of worthiness last year was how far Sanders was prepared to go, and how clinton didn't match him policy point for policy point because she wanted to successfully implement her ideas - and she got derided for her caution and wonkishness , the insinuation being made she didn't care. Now Sanders sees the point in implementing a ceiling in this case. So how big a gaslight are we using here?

I wouldn't have to say anything about this if busterisms were so in vogue, where anyone disagreeing with Sanders is liable to get hit with all manner of smears - Yeah I haven't forgotten about Cory Booker and Perez and I'll keep bringing it up the more Democrats get thrown under the bus by some folks. Glad Sanders now sees the value in the much dreaded idea of incrementalism.

God help us if we see a repeat of this nonsense in 2020.

[JCanete]

163. This isn't incrementalism. Clinton could have simply put the disagreement to bed in the primary

if she'd said I'm all for free tuition. Lets do it. Here's my proposal. I just want a cutoff so that rich people don't get the benefit. Instead, she opposed the plan because of rich people. she didn't proffer up the alternative until they came to what appears to be a compromise on both sides. You are right and I have no interest in denying it. Sanders did not have a cap. I could care less about the cap since if we taxed right, the rich are welcome to take some of it back in their free tuition, but I'm perfectly fine with the cap, and it appears that Sanders was too. That was not the point of contention, and we shouldn't pretend like it was.

Second, Sanders had a more ambitious plan. That is what primaries are about. They disagreed with each other on their plans. He thought Clinton's wasn't going far enough. Her July plan went further didn't it? This is where we are now, with a proposal that resembles her July plan.

And I simply disagree with you with the notion that we should be campaigning on the incremental steps. We should be campaigning on the big steps and getting the incrementalism if that's all we can get. What is the advantage of not promoting the very best stuff that people can most easily understand or imagine?

It is just untrue that because sanders campaigned on the more idealistic plan that he has no understanding of incrementalism, or is opposed to it when it comes to finally working with the political reality. You will have to show me where he has said, "all or nothing" or has refused to vote for incremental steps in the right direction when that has been what was on the table, because I'm not aware of those cases.

The campaigning changes the political reality. The promotion of these feasible ideas makes the public yearn for them and puts pressure on the politicians to enact them. That is how the politically impossible becomes possible. Again, why not do that?

[JHan]

167. Nice try but no.

Her plan , in fact most of her ideas, that met his half way was attacked as not going far enough.

Yes this IS incrementalism. It is not completely free, there are qualifiers. If we wish for completely free college, she asked , hwo would we pay for it? Asking the question was interpreted as her stonewalling and not really wanting to implement the idea.

I remember it all very well - unfortunately.

[JCanete]

168. So do I. Nice try but no right back at you. Are you saying she WAS promoting free tuition for people

Last edited Wed Apr 5, 2017, 11:22 PM - Edit history (1)

making under 125,000 throughout the primary? Are you really saying that?

Also, were people actually attacking her post primary plan? I certainly wasn't. I thought we were all pretty happy about that. There might have been those who didn't trust her for whatever reasons, "too little too late or something like that..."but I don't remember there being a hullabaloo about her proposal in July that was negative. I myself was thrilled by it.

[R B Garr]

171. Incrementalism was ridiculed because it was

part of the reality crowd that was also ridiculed. Seriously, this kind of rewriting history just looks like fake news. Incrementalism was characterized as a sell-out. That's a fact. Now that Sanders is being realistic doesn't mean you get to rewrite history.

[JCanete]

178. Incrementalism was the cry from people who didn't like others trying to promote

grander ideas, for whatever reasons, which I'm sure they would justify. If you think it has to do with people rejecting legislation when the incremental steps are all we can get, once we've campaigned on the ideal rather than that step, then you'll have to show me real-world examples of that. I'm pretty sure the disagreement in the primary had nothing to do with this straw-man bs about some of us rejecting the political realities once its time for compromise.

But it is not time to preemptively compromise when we are campaigning. Why are we compromising before we even get to the table?Why are we selling watered down less inspiring legislation to the public? Why not sell the big stuff and then tie it to the republicans when they don't act? Why not scare the shit out of the republicans that something like that might actually pass? Maybe then they might reconsider their complete and total obstructionism.

Again, if you want to sell your version of the past, then put up some evidence.

[R B Garr]

199. Wrong again. Rejecting incrementalism was a way to reject

being accountable. And "grand ideas" is meaningless mumbo jumbo. I'm sure Bernie's not the first politician to think of offering free things to get votes. It's meaningless, hardly grand, as we see *currently* that he is back pedaling.

You can Google Bernie's own words about incrementalism when he was asked to account for one of his proposals. Obviously you know what I was referencing with the "grand ideas" comment.

[JCanete]

212. On what is he backpedaling? I don't get what you are saying he is backpedaling on.

Do you really think the impetus of his education proposal was to give free education to rich people? You think cutting them out makes this incremental? That is the height of silliness. He likes this proposal because it gives free education to the very people he wanted to bring it to. I hardly think he's sweating the cut-off.

This isn't simply offering free things to get votes. This isn't a stupid tax cut that sends everybody a 300 dollar check in the mail, but a handful of people 40,000 dollar checks in the mail. Your reduction of it to giving away free stuff is depressing, when this is actually a proposal that would be good for the country, which I assume, is why Clinton arrived at something that looks similar(as people have been telling me here) when she started campaigning in the GE, or was that just pandering to Sanders base with meaningless giveaways?

PS

I do not know the specific quote you're speaking of. I looked but didn't find it. I don't know what you were referencing specifically either, but may have stumbled onto language that gave that impression.

[shireen]

172. Well, I dont understand the vicious attack on Sanders

He's just doing his job.

Nor do I don't pay attention to the crap that's being said about Hillary, Perez, and the present Dem. party. Most reasonable Democrats know it's rubbish.

Oh, I give up ... I'm out of this thread.

[JHan]

173. I haven't understood his attacks...

which I won't rehash here, but they were against Perez earlier on, and Cory Booker and happened again recently, several times in fact. The attacks on Booker were nauseating, every slander was thrown at him at the time ( by sanders supporters following suit) but now Sanders and Booker are working together on a bill tackling Pharma prices so I guess it's all good.

Charles Pierce wrote a great piece about unity this week. Trump is the enemy, not democrats.

[beam me up scottie]

206. Yup. And Bernie shared credit with his cosponsors.

What is he supposed to do not work with his colleagues to introduce legislation?

[kcr]

234. I know when I want to share credit? I call whatever it is by MY NAME! That thing is MINE MINE MINE

That's a good way to share.

[beam me up scottie]

244. That's nice.

Fortunately that's not something any of the sponsors of this bill did, in fact they all seemed happy to share credit when they introduced it.

I believe the name of the bill is the College for All Act, by the way, so I don't see any one senator's name on it. And as this video shows it was a joint introduction:

I'm grateful our progressives are willing to work together on legislation like this and on Medicare for all which would also benefit so many.

Yay for our leaders in the senate and house!

[JCanete]

247. good post, thanks. And thanks to our Senate and House leaders who co-sponsored this bill.

[beam me up scottie]

252. You're welcome. Everyone should be applauding their efforts at unity.

And from what I've seen progressives and liberals who see the bigger picture are doing just that.

If we want to remain indivisible we cannot allow those who disparage our progressive senators at every opportunity to drive a wedge between us. We're a big tent, of course we're going to disagree - but Hillary and Bernie moved past the primaries to work together and we all need to follow their lead. Dredging up ancient history isn't constructive criticism, it's sour grapes.

We have to ask: who benefits from these divisive tactics?

Divided we fall.

[R B Garr]

258. Yes, Hillary's motto was exactly that: Stronger Together

So glad you agree once again with what the Democratic nominee said. Progress!

[R B Garr]

251. How phony. None of the others demonized Clinton over...

nothing.

[NCTraveler]

260. "with his cosponsors."

[zentrum]

114. This is petty and doesn't really matter.

The important thing is the plan and the policy and that someone is out there fighting for this RIGHT NOW.

How can it matter which non-Republican is doing this?

Fighting over credit is not where we are right now. We are in a national crisis and thank God for any Democrat using his or her position to fight for us.

Every time I say anything here that supports Bernie, I'm scolded for hurting unity, but apparently we can have a post and entire thread that disses him and that doesn't hurt unity? It does. It hurts unity and what is the point of that now?

I hope we get some help for our students. PERIOD. End of sentence.

[onecaliberal]

116. Maggot is going to start a fucking war between China and NK, and this shit is what we're

arguing about. Seriously, a VERY dangerous man is now occupying the white house, who knows what he is going to do next. We need to get over this kind of shit. We need EVERYONE on our side. We need to stop alienating each other. Just stop already, the primary is over, we lost. The general is over, they ripped it off. Let's move the fuck on, we have important things to do.

[bekkilyn]

119. Great, yet more Bernie bashing.

I'm beginning to think that we deserve 45 and his Republican cronies because we can't seem to display even one single ounce of gratitude that there are people out there trying to do good things for us.

[Skittles]

120. he's a man

[JTFrog]

121. + infinity. nt

[NCTraveler]

122. How I wish this is what was being debated right now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512353651

I mean real debate. Not the cater to the base move we are currently watching.

[TSIAS]

125. It's Soviet propaganda

Putin and the USSR will stop at nothing to endure that this WOMAN is destroyed. They know she is the toughest opponent for Trump in 2020. They will lie, cheat, and kill to stop her from getting the credit she deserves and becoming the nominee once again.

[klook]

127. Flashback to July 2016: Sanders calls Clinton's education plan "a bold initiative."

As reported on huffingtonpost.com at the time: "Sanders welcomed Clinton’s announcement Wednesday, calling it a 'bold initiative'." Sanders went on to state:

“This proposal combines some of the strongest ideas she fought for during the campaign with some of the principles that I fought for. The final product is a result of the work of both campaigns,” he said. “Let me be very clear. This proposal, when implemented, will revolutionize the funding of higher education in America, improve the economic future of our country and make life immediately better for tens of millions of people stuck with high levels of student debt.”

It's interesting to note that both candidates were inspired by proposals from Demos and the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

Also from the huffingtonpost article:

A national goal of debt-free college was outlined in a white paper by Demos, a left-leaning think tank, and the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, an advocacy group. Over the past year the idea has gained widespread support among Democrats. Last year, a group led by Sens. Brian Schatz (Hawaii), Chuck Schumer (N.Y.) and Elizabeth Warren (Mass.) introduced a resolution seeking to ensure that students who attend public colleges and universities can graduate without debt. And currently, there’s legislation to advance that goal.

Some may choose to fight over who came up with the idea and who's getting credit. Me, I'm glad to see a proposal for more affordable college tuition, and I support everyone who's working toward that goal. We should be able to agree on that.

[randome]

138. Because too many of us are desperate for a hero.

We've forgotten that the power to change things resides in ourselves.

[FDRsGhost]

141. Well, would you look at this

Remember that time after the primaries Bernie was out campaigning for Hillary's college plan? Good times!

[JCanete]

153. oops...

[Cha]

194. Yeah, her plan

[DefenseLawyer]

142. Let it go. n/t

[JCanete]

149. It is not the same plan. Clinton rolled out a new plan early July that was a compromise between

her and Sanders positions. She did not previously offer free college attendance for people making under 125,000, and even when she rolled it out in July, it was intended to start at an 85,000 cap.

Yes, Clinton used the subsidization of people with money as the reason she wasn't for college for all, but it did take until July when she was shoring up Sander's support and the support of his voters for her to promote the free college plan, with her proposed cap, that I think everybody was okay with.

Sanders should not get all the credit. Clinton should not get all the credit. Warren, Ellison, etc. have all been involved. But as is apparent, people do it anyway, like acting like this was Clinton's plan all along, or presenting this roll-out as Sanders work alone, with an egregious lack of mention of Clinton's crafting of similar legislation, that was almost certainly this product, or a guideline for it.

[Cha]

156. Hillary's Plan is the best..She should get credit for it.. From the article..

"Emphasis mine. That was the biggest distinction between Clinton's and Sanders' plans: Clinton did not believe that students whose families could afford college tuition needed to have their education subsidized. Sanders resoundingly dismissed out of hand that qualification throughout the Democratic primary."

Mahalo, pnwmom!

[FDRsGhost]

161. It wasn't exclusively Hillary's plan

I'm just going to leave this right here.

Link to tweet

[QC]

164. Shhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

You'll spoil the fun!

[Cha]

185. So? Hillary gives other people credit.. that's

what should be happening right now.

She should be getting some credit.

[FDRsGhost]

186. Some are never happy

In the end, who really cares? What matters is that something like this is finally seeing the light of day and is something which would help millions of people. That's what matters. It's all petty crap.

[Cha]

187. We care.. it's her plan that she credits

others with helping.

[FDRsGhost]

188. I care about who it's going to help, not who invented it

That's our differences.

[Cha]

189. Hillary's is the Best Plan. We have many

Democrats in Congress who know that and will be helping with that.

[FDRsGhost]

190. Personally I like both Hillary's and Sanders

Although I think a combination of both plans is what's needed. For now though, anything which helps makes college affordable is a good thing.

Next up, student loan debt forgiveness!

[George II]

236. She has nothing to gain from getting credit for her accomplishments....

....and never was an "I did", "I want", or "I said" person. All she cared/cares about it helping the American people, nothing more and nothing less. And Elizabeth Warren seems to be following in her footsteps, thankfully.

[Cha]

256. I'm not talking about "gaining".. just

what's true.

After it was criticized.. it turns out it's the best one.

Of course, Hillary wants the best for the people's health plan.. she always did.

[Sunlei]

165. President Clinton and VP Sanders, I think they made a great team.

both

[lunamagica]

180. You are so right, pnwmom. For centuries men have taken credit for women's ideas, discoveries

and inventions. And it is so sad to see that it continues.

Though I must say, I've never liked Sanders, and I'm not surprised.

(and look at the date I joined. There is no way I am some "plant&quot

[MuseRider]

183. "Where was he when I was trying to get

health care in '93 and '94?" https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/12/say-who-was-that-mysterious-man-behind-hillary-clinton/?_r=0

They all do crap like this. Give this a rest please. YOU are making women sound weak and unable to navigate the ways we do politics. Whaaaaaa, where is my name? Hillary has not said anything about this that I know of so why don't the rest of us grow the fuck up and deal with the mess we are being handed by Trump and his merry band of bandits?

[Cha]

191. No, she's "not making women look weak"

that's your attitude.

The OP is standing up for Women. The opposite of "weak" as you characterize it.

[MuseRider]

196. I disagree.

We are strong. We do not need to whine and stomp our feet over every little thing. That makes us look weak and whiney. It is not a surprise to ANYONE that there was a difference and they came together when she won the primary. This is stupid and makes us look small and weak. Sorry, I disagree. I am perfectly content being a strong woman, standing with and for other women and not going this far down as to look like someone who cannot accept the realities of the way things work. This makes us look as petty as the misogynists think we are. We need to keep moving forward. If I were Hillary this would embarrass me, she does not need anyone to stand up for her. She is perfectly capable herself.

By the way, I think it is beyond stupid to fight against progress just to whine about who did it first. I will put my feminist creds against anyone and have not one problem letting this go. There is so much more to worry about and work on than the fact that someone who worked with her in the 90's then again in the last election might have done what she would have done in his position and you can bet your bottom dollar she would have done the same, just read my post and the link in it.

By the way, who on this entire planet thinks Hillary Clinton is a weak woman who cannot hold her own against anyone? Apparently a lot of women here who cannot stand the fact that Bernie is still in the news. Sounds entirely non feminist to me. If Hillary wants to come out and scream about this then she does but it seems very stupid to see others doing it for her as if she has no voice of her own.

[Cha]

197. Again.. your charactorization "Whine"..

we speak up and you call it "whine".

Where have I heard that before.

We're suppose to not say anything.. let others take the credit.. afraid somebody will think we're "Whining".

Too damn bad.

[MuseRider]

217. Oh for God's sakes Cha

Everybody whines. The very fact that we are so incapable of standing up for what we want without resorting to parsing every single thing looks like whining to me.

I agree with you on almost everything but here this just seems stupid and nonproductive. Like him or not, Bernie is on our side. Say what you will but that man would go to the limit to help women.

As far as I am concerned, Hillary Clinton has no problem sticking up for herself. She does it quite well. She does not whine herself, she stands firm. She knows how this works. If it bothers her she would say so. This is how it goes. If you want all the men to bring their bills, all made up of all kinds of ideas from all sources then put together and worked by them to then bring those bills to the women so they can put their names on them then you are showing one of the worst forms of weakness that women are accused of. I know that is not what you meant to have happen here but it sounds so close. Let her get out on this if it is important to her. Otherwise it just sounds like, well you know, a word we can do but can't say? Everybody whines. This argument does nothing to further HC. It does not even support feminism. It just sounds like bitter pettiness, something all sexes do as well.

[Cha]

253. Oh for god's sake, muserider. BS insults

the Dem Party with "Liberal Elite", "Feeble" "Can't Fight Back".. the least he can do is give credit when it's due".

[FDRsGhost]

213. +1

[MuseRider]

233. You are incorrect.

I never said she made us look weak, she does not. I said all this upset over as stupid a thing as someone who sponsored a bill that was NOT stolen and has plenty of women sponsoring it makes us look weak AND whiney AND petulent....all things I wish would stop. It is US that look weak here, not Hillary. I only brought Hillary up as someone strong and smart enough not to be doing this. Also to make the point that she did it to him as well.

[Cha]

254. Whatever.. the OP is Standing up for Strong

Women!

[beam me up scottie]

200. Lol. That blogger is full of crap. Warren, Harris and Gillibrand also got credit as cosponsors.

First Melissa claims this is Hillary's plan - except it's not.

Bernie wrote legislation for tuition free college two years ago, Hillary followed his lead and created her own plan - which she changed while working with Bernie in July AFTER the primary was over. Both fought for their own plans during the primary and both compromised after it was over.

So no, this isn't just Hillary's plan.

Secondly Melissa lies about Bernie taking the credit - which is bullshit because he's just one of several cosponsors in the senate.

In fact if she had unbunched her panties long enough to watch the video she would have noticed Bernie was joined by senators Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Richard Blumenthal, Chris Murphy and Kirsten Gillibrand along with their house colleagues - and they introduced the bill TOGETHER.

Sanders introduced the bill in the Senate along with Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.). In the House, Reps. Bobby Scott (D-Va.), Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), Rick Nolan (D-Minn.), Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas), Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.), Nydia Velázquez (D-N.Y.), John Conyers (D-Mich.), Peter Welch (D-Vt.), Mark Pocan (D-Wis.), David Cicilline (D-R.I.) and Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) joined Jayapal as co-sponsors of the legislation.

So why is Melissa only venting her outrage at Bernie anyway? Shouldn't she include Warren and the other cosponsors in her rant?

Oh wait - Melissa couldn't include the other senators in her poutrage because then she couldn't pretend this is all about a MAN stealing from a WOMAN

And if Melissa can't keep pitting the sexes against each other before you know it she'll be out of work.


Seriously - what is Bernie supposed to do, quit doing his job and co-introducing legislation because it pisses Melissa off whenever she sees him?

She needs to put on her big girl pants and get over it because Bernie's not going anywhere. And that's fine with Democrats who don't care who's fighting for us as long as they FIGHT. As long as Bernie keeps walking the walk we could care less about whatever sour grapes Melissa is having for dinner.

Let it go Melissa. Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself and Secretary Clinton with your pouting. We have a real enemy out there and his name is Donald Trump. Hillary and Bernie are both doing their part and many other leaders are also fighting tooth and nail for us. It's time to stop trying to vilify them just to get a few clicks.

[YOHABLO]

205. I don not believe that Hillary supported 'free' college education for all.

Sorry but you're wrong. She began marching to the beat of that drum in the primary. It really doesn't matter what a politician says during a race. The chance of them carrying through on these so called 'promises' is not even 50/50. We have a Congress that must pass legislation. Stop this Hillary vs Bernie crap.

[QC]

216. You are correct. She initially supported something called

"debt-free college" and denounced Bernie's proposal as part of a strategy of "promising free this and free that and free everything."

Later, she adopted free tuition, but with means testing (which struck me as a bit of 90's triangulation, but hey, it's better than not helping at all).

The entire premise behind this thread is false, and the division that it foments can only benefit the Republicans. Anybody remember them? You know...that crazy guy in the White House and the ones who want to put grandma out on the street and the ones who want to start about eight or ten new wars and the others.

[Ms. Toad]

207. Breaking: Indian-American woman takes credit for Clinton's plan!

Last edited Thu Apr 6, 2017, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)

WASHINGTON, D.C – Today, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal (WA-07) and Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) unveiled legislation to make public colleges and universities tuition-free for working families and to significantly reduce student debt.

“Our young people are forced to make untenable choices: Going to college and taking on mountains of debt, or foregoing their college degree to work part-time or minimum wage jobs that simply won’t allow them to build a future,” said Rep. Jayapal. “The College for All Act renews our compact with our young people. We’re going to piece back together the broken promises of a broken American Dream, and give back hope and opportunity to the middle class and working families across this country.”

https://jayapal.house.gov/media/press-releases/jayapal-and-sanders-introduce-college-all-act

Oh, wait, not just those two - but 20 others are illegitimately claiming credit, as well!

Jayapal introduced the bill in the House along with Reps. Bobby Scott (D-Va.), Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), Rick Nolan (D-Minn.), Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), Mark Pocan (D-Wisc.), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.), Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.), Nydia Velázquez (D-NY), John Conyers (D-Mich.), Jamie Raskin, (D-MD), David Cicilline (D-RI), Peter Welch (D-Vt), Grace Napolitano (D-Calif.).** In the Senate, Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Kamala Harris (D-Calif), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) and Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) joined Sanders as co-sponsors of the legislation.

** There are actually 19 co-sponsors in the House, even though the article only lists 15.

The reality is that bills come from a variety of good ideas from a number of sources. The best bills are massaged by a lot of good minds, so that what is introduced includes the best ideas everyone can think of - and it would be uncommon to expressly credit a candidate for proposals that ended up in a bill. The insistance that Sanders (but none of the other 25 individuals involved in creating this bill and introducing it into the house and senate) is somehow stealing credit for an idea that wasn't his is nothing more than relitigating the primary. That needs to stop.

Sanders is in the Senate, and has the ability to introduce bills. Cinton currently is not - and thus does not have the ability to introduce bills. When Sanders participates in introducing (or cosponsoring) legislation, we should be evaluating that legislation on the merits and supporting it or challenging it on that basis - not pecking one of two sponsors and 24 cosponsors to death because one of the sponsors happened to be in an acrimonious primary and his position during the primary isn't identical to what ended up in the bill.

[beam me up scottie]

208. Nicely done! You totally nailed it! Harris, Gillibrand and Warren also sponsored this bill.

This deserves its own op.

[ms liberty]

214. Excellent rebuttal, Ms. Toad. Wish I could rec this.

[FDRsGhost]

215. lol nice

[kcr]

218. That's right! She's all over the media calling it the Jayapal plan!

You so totally nailed it

[MuseRider]

230. Another excellent here

thank you.

[Cha]

255. Yes, It's Hillary's Plan! Thank you!

[Mike Nelson]

210. Well...

...Bernie was always for Hillary's plan. He showed his better plan during the primary, to contrast and give voters a choice. He would happily settled for Hillary's plan. Both Hillary and Bernie want the same thing, by the way... they are seasoned politicians and understood free tuition would not be easy. In reality, Hillary would have loved to pass Bernie's plan. You get done what you can, when you can... Now, neither plan matters. We have zero chance of their ideas getting passed.

[redgreenandblue]

211. Better question: Will faux accusations of sexism against Bernie ever get old?

Democrats will continue to lose elections until a certain segment accepts that not everything in the world is about Identity™.

[Impedimentus]

221. No, cult of personality is a disorder ...

that belongs on the therapists couch. Few people ever recover.

[kcr]

219. It's not so much that he's all My Plan! Here it is! with him.

It's the fact that it's totally meaningless now. We could be having this plan. Right now. But it wouldn't be him giving it to us.

And that's the rub. If he wasn't going to be giving it to us, NO ONE was going to. He's still living the dream.

[Impedimentus]

223. I Admire and Respect Dreamers, Defeatists Trouble Me

"Defeatism is a dangerous attitude to have. When you expect to fail and accept it, it is highly likely you will. Defeatism takes away your objectivity and composure. It leaves you unable to handle events in an effective manner. It also robs you of the perseverance you need to succeed in what you set out to do. With this attitude, you give up too quickly at the first sign of trouble. Thus the very failure you expect becomes a reality." Yoda Trains Luke Skywalker

[kcr]

224. I admire dreamers, too. But reality has to play into it, otherwise it's just delusion.

Trump is in office. Right now. GOP literally has almost total control. For some, it's as if it's that's not even really happening. To call acknowledging the reality of Trump defeatist is telling, in my opinion.

[JCanete]

248. what are you talking about? Based on what? Did he or did he not campaign for Clinton? Did they not

get on stage together, and did he not promote her candidacy, not to mention her most progressive policies, full-throatedly? There was no hemming and hawing. There was no faint praise. Of course this support came after she adopted aspects of his plan into hers as well as some of his other positions, which took long enough, but your narrative that he didn't want her to succeed with those things, doesn't really match the facts we have at our disposal.

[Impedimentus]

220. Blah, blah, blah, blah

Will the anti-Bernie whining ever stop? This silliness belongs in the Onion or on the therapist's couch. It's always someone else fault is the mantra of people addicted to a cult of personality.

[Demsrule86]

225. Please please can we stop this? You know I was a passionate supporter of Hillary. My passion lead

to a vacation of sorts...but this has to stop...the arguing from the two camps...the primary is over and the election is over. Can we unite and stop the worst president in my lifetime and one who is undoubtedly mad...who's careless words killed innocent people in Syria...including children. The photos were unbearable. This president and the GOP want to undo all the progressive policy enacted in the last 80 years. Whatever our differences, I say to everyone from Bernie on down...STOP! You enable the Republicans and Trump with the arguing. We need to take the House and the Senate in 18...and it will be tough...we should be fighting on that front...and then show Trump the door in 20. The GOP, the media (for ratings) and even the Russians want to divide us because they know, we are unbeatable when we are united.

[kcr]

226. You're fine. It's not as if Hillary is out there trying to stir shit up all the time

I'm tired of every time Bernie or one of his surrogates stirs up controversy, it's everyone else tasked with keeping the peace. It's anyone having the nerve to criticize or get upset who is at fault. Not Bernie himself. Don't let anyone tell you to shut up about it. Especially here at DU. The alert brigade seems to be back in full force.

[Impedimentus]

228. I wish threads like this one would just go away.

"Can't we all just get along?" <-- Dreamer.

[kcr]

229. They would go away if getting along didn't have to mean Trumps shoved down our throats.

We have to suffer Trump and then we have to shut up about it.

[Impedimentus]

231. I'm sorry, but I don't see the logic of your post.

What does Democrats uniting and getting past the primary battles, and the loss of 2016 have to do with diminishing a united Democratic party against Trump. Maybe I just too dense or senile to understand your point or understand why treads like this one only hurt uniting against Trump.

[kcr]

232. It's probably because you completely ignore the fact that Bernie himself

is still fighting the primary and that's the problem. He never stopped. He didn't stop when he should have, which is a factor in Hillary's defeat to begin with. And he still hasn't stopped. Which is why calls for anyone who isn't Bernie himself or one of his supporters who spouts his lines to stop fighting the primary and get in line as if THEY are the problem are ridiculous. Bernie is the problem. When he stops attacking Dems. When he stops spouting crap like Trump supporters aren't racist. Then he'll probably find it easier to get both sides to come together.

[Impedimentus]

235. I understand now. Thanks for the clarification.

It's always the fault of someone else - with you, Bernie. The blame game is a comfortable blanket that protects many from the pain of reality. Thank you for the clarification, I really do understand your point of view now and I totally disagree with your premise. Have a wonderful day (I'm not being sarcastic). Nice tulip.

[kcr]

237. I know you're not being sarcastic. I know what sarcasm actually looks like n/t

[pnwmom]

241. It is wrong to say, as he just did THIS WEEK, that Trump's deplorable supporters aren't the problem.

They are the problem. He wouldn't have been elected if his hateful, racist, sexist, Islamaphobic, homophobic, message hadn't appealed to millions of people.

That's our REAL problem going forward -- how to deal with the slimy hateful underbelly of our society that DT succeeded in unleashing and feeding.

[enid602]

240. no sexx tapes . . .

. . . But perhaps a Jacuzzi filled with acid?

[moriah]

250. I think she's used to imitation being the sincerest form of flattery.

After all, the ACA has that individual mandate she said in 2008 was necessary on the stump, and President Obama ran on a "no mandate" platform.