Why do people drive SUVs?

[primavera]

Seriously, I'm baffled. Everywhere I look, I see people driving SUVs, but I really don't get the attraction. SUVs are big and top heavy, so they don't handle particularly well and parking them is a bitch. They get poor gas mileage and put out a correspondingly high quantity of emissions, so they're not especially green vehicles. They're expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, expensive to fill up, so they're hardly the vehicle of choice for the economically conscious. I understand why someone with a big family would value a minivan. I understand why someone like a building contractor who needs to haul heavy loads would value a truck. I understand why someone who is into outdoor activities and drives a lot over uneven, rough roads would value something like a Jeep. I understand why someone into sporty performance would value a sports car. All of these are reasons I can fathom for driving a big, unwieldy, expensive, fuel inefficient, high emission vehicle. As far as I can tell, though, a SUV offers none of these perks, only the disadvantages of a big gas guzzler. Yet they remain the most popular vehicle in the country. Can anyone explain this to me? Surely someone here must love SUVs and can tell me what the attraction is, no?

[drm604]

1. I think for some it's a statement.

"I can afford to be wasteful."

[ryan_cats]

30. Possibly making up for some 'shortcoming'

Possibly making up for some 'shortcoming'

That or they enjoy wasting gas, making it impossible to change lanes near them and I really enjoy having an enormous SUV in my little sports car's rear view mirror. What is it with people, especially in an SUV where you can see over cars, they tailgate when it's obvious there's a line of bumper to bumper traffic? Shesh.

[drm604]

148. And a lot of them don't even know enough not to park those high things near a corner.

Looking for oncoming traffic at an intersection has become a lot more difficult since these tall things have become popular. One of them parked at the corner makes it difficult to see what's coming. Maybe lack of courtesy goes with the whole psychology.

(Yes, I realize that some people have a legitimate need for them and that some of them do try to be courteous about where they park them; but some are just inconsiderate and end up making driving more dangerous for everyone else.)

[We are Devo]

287. I hate it when

they park them by the driveway into my apt. bldg. So hard to pull out onto a busy street in my REGULAR SIZED SEDAN!

[ErikJ]

188. And Republicans like to thumb nose at Treehuggers

I have debated many and that's the impression I get. And they are cowards-afraid they will get in crash. But SUVs are deadlier than regualr cars. They roll 6 times easier. And head-ons with trees or concrete is deadly in SUV, no crush zone.

I ask them, then why dont ya take the BUS if youre so worried about getting in crash?

[leveymg]

352. Insecurity. Big time anxieties are relieved by big wheels and lots of sheet metal.

Volvos aren't big enough for 21st Century American-sized insecurities. People are driving urban assault vehicles, whether they realize it or not.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

2. My Vue gets same MPG as a midsize sedan and its AWD is great in Chicago winters.

[primavera]

5. Weather handling, good point

I hadn't thought of that one, thanks for the benefit of your experience!

[Maine-ah]

93. yup...come to the sticks in Maine where I live.

I actually have three vehicles. All purchased used, all paid off. An F150, A Nissan Xterra, and A Saab 9-5. All used for different purposes. All maintained. I drive either the Saab or the Xterra. I can't reach the pedals in the F150.

anyway, back to my point...

In the sticks of Maine (my pop is about 1200 people) our roads are not well plowed...when they plow them. So, winters for me, I need a higher clearance, and 4wd - that's the Xterra. Hubby uses the F150 rarely, (trash hauls..etc) and he usually has the Xterra. I usually have the Saab. Work is only 7 miles away for him, and 2 miles for me. No, I can't ride a bike to work. There are no shoulders on the roads. It's not safe. Especially with the influx of tourists up here in the summer who can't manage to follow the speed limit and/or drive safely. In the winters that is most certainly out of the question. And no, we do not have public transportation. A cab into town would cost hubby $35 + tip.

I'm pretty tired of the attacks on SUV's. I certainly (as a woman) don't feel like I need a larger dick as someone else suggested (neither does the hubby)...and I can parallel park a Yukon (former boss had one) into tiny spaces perfectly. Yes, there are those that drive them as "status symbols", but when you come out to areas like mine, for the most part any one that drives a large truck or SUV, it's with good reason. - I'm just saying, don't lump us all into one group - broad brushes and all that.

Oh, and most of us have Obama stickers on them too.

[primavera]

114. Already been there and it was too cold for me!

I spent a winter in Maine once and thought I would never be warm again! So I know what you mean, in a place like Maine, an AWD vehicle is definitely an essential. Particularly since no one there will accept inclement weather as an excuse for being late to work, dammit. Getting up in the wee hours to go stand out in an ice storm in the pitch black trying to shovel out my driveway so I could get into work by 8:30 had a lot to do with why I left Maine, I can tell you. Gawd, that was awful!

[nadine_mn]

122. I agree - also as a woman I don't feel like I am making up for any shortcomings

Even in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, we get a lot of unplowed or poorly plowed streets in the winter (ugh or those mountains of snow that pile up at intersections) and I have been stuck too many times in a car where an SUV or truck would have cleared.

BTW - I was born in Maine but never got to enjoy it - moved when I was 3 mos old - way up in Limestone.

[MADem]

197. I never question anyone driving an SUV in a rural environment that enjoys harsh weather.

I mean....it's obvious why people have 'em!

Now, if you're living in Cambridge MA and you never go further afield than Brookline....!

[blueamy66]

238. Xterra....not a huge SUV......

I think that the poster is speaking of Suburbans and Hummers and Tahoes and the like....

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. I have AWD (don't think its an SUV)

because of what used to be winter.

[Honeycombe8]

44. What do you have? I'll tell you how it's categorized. I subscribe to Consumer Reports online. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

64. Murano.

I think it is a Maxima crossover.

[Honeycombe8]

69. The Nissan Murano is classified as a mid-sized SUV by Consumerreports.org.

I almost bought a Nissan Rogue, which is a smaller version of the Murano and is classified as a small SUV. My next car, I'm going to check out the Rogue again. Decent gas mileage, very nice interior, not too large (but a bit larger than what I want, but not by much), and I don't have to get a silly sunroof to get other good stuff I think.

[Ruby the Liberal]

76. What sold me on the Murano was the backup camera

It is indash and extremely useful in city driving, parallel parking, etc...

I checked around before deciding - and nothing in its price class had those. That may have changed by now (this was 5.5 years ago). Now I am so used to it that I don't want to drive/park without it and won't buy another vehicle without one. Of course, I plan to keep this for another 5-7 years, so who knows what options will be out then.

[primavera]

90. That was one of the things that sold me on my Prius, too!

I love that back-up cam!

[Ruby the Liberal]

95. I drove my Mom's car one day

which doesn't have one. Thats when I realized how much I rely on it. LOVE that feature. Didn't know the Prius had one.

[primavera]

102. Aren't they great?

I don't know what I'd do without it. The back-up cam on the Prius is a package extra, it's unfortunately not on every model. The way Toyota packages extras is one beef I have with the Prius. Every year, they change the packages to include different things, so some years, you can get the back-up cam without buying a bunch of other stuff you don't need; other years, you have to spend a fortune on junk you don't want in order to get the package that happens to include the back-up cam. I wish they'd stop doing that.

[pacalo]

165. We almost got one of those, Ruby.

Instead we went for the Pathfinder (we like Nissans). I do like the backup camera.

After getting an inheritance from my husband's parents, we decided to get a vehicle with hurricane evacuations in mind -- one large enough to comfortably carry lots of supplies during hurricane evacuations.

[Ruby the Liberal]

166. Another good reason.

Yes - cargo space is incredible. Without it, I'd be renting trucks just to get stuff home from the store that won't fit in a car.

[madokie]

70. Consumer reports is a rip off if you ask me

Back when we used to make decisions on what they, CR, said we wasted a lot of money on inferior products, both household and vehicles.
We have friends who don't buy anything unless consumer reports says its the best buy and its very seldom that in the long run they are satisfied, same experience we had when we ascribed to their, CR, thinking

[RKP5637]

80. I bought a VW Rabbit because of reviews in CR years ago and it was

the worst car I even owned in my life. They kept giving them rave reviews year after year although some were finding them to be a POS. Then sometime later it came out they fired the department head for those reviews.

He was a German guy in love with VW and I don't know if it ever came back if he was getting some kind of kickbacks somehow.

On the one I had the brake line broke inside the car, the hand brake failed at the same time, I went under a truck was was almost killed. Fortunately I escaped without a scratch. The POS was totaled.

[madokie]

128. One of my old bosses did the same thing except it was something else VW

He'll tell you today that they watched that car litterally fall apart in his drive way. All because CR said it was a good car.
I'm happy that you made it out ok.
In my eyes you happen to be one of the good guys/gals here.

Personally I don't believe a word that CR says when they say they are impartial. Bullshit is what that is

[RKP5637]

149. Thanks madokie!!!

[FarCenter]

4. CR-V, RAV-4, etc. offer good economy with high seating, lots of room.

But no, I don't understand Escalades or Navigators.

[primavera]

6. "High seating"?

Is there a benefit to higher seating?

On edit: sorry, you may have meant higher seating capacity, not like higher as in elevation?

[FarCenter]

7. No, the seat is higher off the ground, so you have better visibility.

And some people would find it easier to step up into a CR-V or RAV-4 than to scrunch down into a Civic or Corolla.

And then there is the AWD traction as noted by others.

[primavera]

11. I see, thanks

Although, I have to say, there's a certain cyclical quality to the logic here: if there weren't so many SUVs on the road obstructing the views of lower to the ground cars, one would have ample visibility from behind the wheel of a normal vehicle and wouldn't need a SUV in order to be able to see. I sometimes get the impression that we as Americans let ourselves get drawn into a vicious cycle when it comes to trying to outdo others on the roads. E.g., I need a 2,500 lb vehicle in order to be safe on the roads because there are 2,000 lb vehicles that could make mincemeat of me if they hit me. Well and fine, but then everyone needs a 3,000 lb vehicle in order to feel safe from all of the people like me who bought 2,500 lb vehicles. And so on and so on. When does it stop? When everyone is driving their own armored personnel carrier? Wouldn't it just be easier if everyone drive lighter, or, as the case may be, shorter, vehicles?

[SouthernLiberal]

39. I don't have an SUV

But I am one of those people. Because of joint problems, it is extremely difficult for me to get in or out of a vehicle where the seats are very low (compared to my height - 5'9", not any other measure. In fact, the single most comfortable vehicle I have ever ridden in was a pickup truck. SUVs, so far, are second. A friend of my tells me though, that if I like pickups, I would really enjoy a commercial van.

[PassingFair]

94. You should try "The Cube"

REALLY easy to get in and out of....

I just lean over and roll right out!

[Honeycombe8]

40. Not all SUVs sit higher. Only some do. Not sure that the RAV sits higher. The Forester doesn't. nt

Also, sedans and other cars come with 4WD or AWD. Not just trucks & SUVs.

[FarCenter]

269. I just was following a Forester and the beltline is much higher than a sedan's

The seat is higher off the ground. It may not be higher off the floor of the passenger compartment.

[Honeycombe8]

323. The Forester doesn't "sit" higher, seems to me. You don't have to step up to get in.

But it does have more ground clearance (8&quot . It has to do with the boxer engine, maybe, which lies sideways so doesn't take as much vertical room.

I test drove a RAV. I did have to step up to get in. But not like some trucks or large SUVs I've had to get into. It seemed like I sat higher, when I test drove it, but it was last year, and I don't remember it clearly. It wasn't high like my brother's Ford 150.

[Skittles]

120. YOU BLOCK THE VISIBILITY OF OTHERS

[uponit7771]

241. Yeap, we should get rid of semis too... /sarcasm

[ieoeja]

246. As a matter of fact, semis are banned on certain commuter routes.

I am not into the whole SUV hating thing. But I do feel they should be treated the same as pickup trucks vis-a-vis traffic laws.

And the really do screw up rush hour traffic. I assume drivers in tall SUVs can not see tail lights on cars because they typically leave a lot more room between them and the vehicle in front of them. And I know they block visibility for a following car, so we have to leave more room when following them. When I am in bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go traffic, I have noticed that SUVs typically take up more than double the amount of space that cars use. With roughly 50% of the vehicles in rush hour traffic being SUVs, we have effectively cut down the volume of traffic the commuter route can handle by 25%.

[GoneOffShore]

322. Had we not destroyed the rail system we could get rid of semi's

Non urgent bulk cargo needn't go by road.

[Honeycombe8]

383. Not really. Rails can't get everywhere. Much of the country is off the beaten path,

so to speak.

[GoneOffShore]

385. Rail used to get to many places - a quick Google search came up with

lots of rail lines that are no longer there.

Take a look at the places once served by rail and now only by road.

[jaysunb]

312. It's like driving behind a goddamn wall !

I hate those things and wish they were banned !

[marybourg]

10. I think s/he does mean sitting up high.

I was going to mention it too. I'll never go back to sitting down low again. When I had an SUV (now I have a minivan) it was for front leg room for tall spouse, pulling a trailer and driving off roads in wild west.

[primavera]

14. Yeah, I can see that

I'm of medium leg length, so have never had a problem feeling comfortable in a smaller vehicle, but I can imagine some people with longer legs might have an issue with that. Thanks for the point of view!

Tell me, though, do you actually drive off roads and, if so, did the SUV handle decently? I was just thinking about this in the supermarket parking lot which was filled with SUVs, none of which had so much as a scratch on them, they looked like they had never been off road even once. Again, I understand the attraction of a Jeep, something that's really a hardcore, rough and tumble sort of vehicle designed to tackle any and all roads (or lack thereof), but, from their size and plush interiors, SUVs seem to be more oriented towards suburban drivers than towards hardcore adventurer types.

I was also surprised by how few SUVs even had a trailer hitch. With a trailer hitch, though, that would make more sense.

[marybourg]

87. We actually lived where there were few

roads and driving cross country, as it was called, was common. But for the majority of drivers who never did that, I think the main attractions were the high seating, the cargo space, and the illusion, now mostly shattered, of sturdy, safer, construction. You may not remember, but not that many years ago cars, both American and Japanese, were being derided as "pieces of trash". Well SUVs gave us a feel of solidity in an "unsafe at any speed" world.

[primavera]

91. Thank you so much for your response!

[roody]

228. Good for people with back problems

[icare4u]

8. Lots of reasons

1. They can afford to be more comfortable
2. Some people are just BIG
3. Small cars feel like a box to some folks

Kind of like myself. I dont drive an SUV but I do have a jeep. Crappy gas mileage, low tech, pretty unsafe etc. but I feel a little more free which is a rare thing today. I wanted a motorcycle but I play sports and one crash on a cycle and your done. I also needed the ability to carry a little bit of stuff.

Personally I dont have a problem with SUVs. People get on the pollution bandwagon but its pretty minuscule considering all the other ways we shaft our environment. I say if you can afford it and want one have at it. It is nice to have a car you can be comfortable in and even sleep if the need arises.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

12. Welcome to DU, icare4u!

I'm glad you found us!

[icare4u]

18. Back at ya Peggy!

[primavera]

20. Welcome to DU!

Sorry to contradict you just as you step in the door, but diverse opinions are the nature of DU, so it's sort of a fitting welcome. Automobile emissions are not a minuscule source of pollution. After industrial pollution, vehicle emissions are the second largest contributor to poor air quality that we face in this country. Poor air quality is a leading contributor to not just global climate change, but to respiratory illness. Individually, of course, you're absolutely right - the impact of a single gas guzzler is negligible. But you put a hundred million of those vehicles on the road and it's no longer negligible. If everyone drove a SULEV or ULEV vehicle, it would indeed make a very substantial difference in air quality, especially compounded over time.

[Honeycombe8]

37. A Jeep IS an SUV. That's all that Jeep makes. nt

[Marinedem]

9. They are a necessity for us.

Our family business needs vehicles capable of hauling 2 trailers loaded with aluminum hulled drift boats, gear, and passengers to and from the river. There simply is no other way to accomplish this within reason. We use 3 SUVs to accomplish this on a nearly every-other day basis in the summer months. Where do we fit in?

[primavera]

21. Passengers and hauling

Yep, I can see that, sounds like you're someone who can make good use of a SUV. I'm glad you like your vehicle!

[boppers]

155. A four-banger does 10 times this load at your local airport every day.

You don't need a big vehicle to do heavy hauling.

[riderinthestorm]

13. Its a work vehicle for me. Big enough to haul feed, equipment, a two horse trailer etc

It also has the traction we need to get in and out of muddy areas and Chicago snows.

Its a hybrid so it gets better mileage than our dually pick-up truck that hauls "the big rig" (9 mph) which means I can get most of the farm errands done with the SUV without having to take out the truck which really is a monster.

[primavera]

23. May I ask, how does the hybrid work for you?

I drive a Prius, in which I get about 60 mpg, except in the summer months when air conditioning lowers it to about 50 mpg. It works fine for us just for driving passengers around, but we're not hauling big loads. Do you find that the hybrid SUVs are able to give you the power you need for handling bigger loads? Just curious.

[riderinthestorm]

265. When its hauling a load or the trailer, its powered almost entirely by gas

But around town for basic chores and errands, its definitely more efficient.

[XemaSab]

15. I have a Honda Element

It's good for birding, good for camping, good for hauling massive amounts of mulch and potting soil, and good for schlepping around three big dogs.

[primavera]

24. Ah ha, a fellow birder!

Then you of all people should be driving a Prius - they are so whisper quiet, you can sneak up on even the wariest of birds!

[Honeycombe8]

35. The Prius now has a larger version. Saw one on the street. It looks great. nt

[primavera]

45. Interesting! I hadn't heard that.

I'll have to keep my eyes peeled. Thanks for the tip!

[Honeycombe8]

74. It was so pretty I looked to see what kind of car that was. It was the new Prius V! Here's Youtube

Here's a youtube consumerreports review. The one I saw was black, and in person, it looked better than this video would indicate.

[primavera]

86. Oh nice, I could definitely be down with that - n/t

[XemaSab]

36. Kicked around the idea of getting a Prius

but they're not very dog-friendly.

The other car in the household is a Toyota Corolla, and I think Honda makes better cars.

[primavera]

43. Tell that to my three dogs!

They seem to like it just fine!

[XemaSab]

52. What kind of dogs?

Bailey is 110 lbs, Pip is 65 lbs, and Maddy is "only" 45 lbs, but Maddy gets carsick so she needs to ride in the sky kennel. Another advantage of the Element is that it's easy to clean dog barf off the plastic.

[primavera]

62. Happily I haven't had to deal with the barf problem

I've got a golden retriever, an english springer, and a small puffball. They all do pretty well in the backseat, but it CAN be a problem when they decide to go swimming in the river and come back all muddy. Then I wish I had an entirely rubberized backseat. Ah, the joys of dog ownership. But, for the most part, it works out fine.

[Honeycombe8]

77. I did, too. Sadly, couldn't get a Prius with upgrades without getting leather seats, which I won't

buy. Both for ethical reasons, plus dog claws scratch and tear leather.

BUT the new larger Prius V comes with synthetic leather. It also holds more cargo. I'm going to check that out next year, when I think I might be buying a new car.

[sweetloukillbot]

164. We just got rid of our Element...

It was getting long in the tooth and starting to have problems and the dealership offered us a smoking trade-in. If they still made them we would have just traded up, instead we went the other route and got an Insight hybrid. I really miss being able to haul things and the gas mileage wasn't completely horrible (although it wasn't great either).
I have a PT Cruiser which is also considered an SUV and I hate it - thankfully I don't drive it much. Had to replace my Fit (which I loved) after a bankruptcy and the PT fit the price range. We also looked at a Vue hybrid that unfortunately had a bit too high mileage for my tastes.

Small SUVs are great for hauling families, groceries, and some furniture. They're great for camping (we could flip the seats down in the Element and make a decent bed for car camping - it also came with a shade that attached to the back for a little canopy). And the AWD ones are great for driving in weather.

That being said - the luxury SUVs - the Mercedes, BMW, Porsches, not to mention Hummers and Escalades, are nothing more than conspicuous consumption.

[libinnyandia]

16. When I lived in New York City, I was astounded by the number of SUVs. With very few unpaved

roads in the City, there was certainly no need for one. I guess they thought they safer and the vehicle names make men feel macho.

[primavera]

29. And with what parking in NYC is like...

... I'm amazed anyone there drives anything bigger than a Vespa!

[libinnyandia]

117. Where i lived, in south Brooklyn, the parking wasn't too bad, if you didn't mind walking.

[Woody Woodpecker]

17. My wife insisted on a SUV - so I chose the best possible SUV of its time in terms of mileage

and I picked a Honda CRV, as they have been great on fuel economy and I have not regretted my decision - We both didn't want a big honking SUV (my wife is 5'2" anyway) - and we determined by my wife's comfort level that Honda won over Toyota or Ford Escape.

I think the next car we look at (for me, anyway) would be something with hybrid or electric components.

Also, our Colorado winters makes sense to have something with AWD - which our SUV has, and knock on wood, haven't been stuck yet (New all-weather tires also helps)

[primavera]

38. Hmm, yes an AWD hybrid would be nice

I live in New Orleans, so don't have winter weather to contend with, but we have been known to get some flooding from time to time...

[Honeycombe8]

82. Subaru has a couple of SUVs that have the best AWD system. Subaru is uber reliable, too.

The interior is not as nice as Honda interiors are, but you cannot beat that Subaru boxer enginer and the AWD.

[Woody Woodpecker]

121. Plenty of Roos in this area too...

I agree - Roos are also one of the better SUV's even they don't look like one - more like station wagons...

[HipChick]

19. I am single, with no kids..

and no husband...

You'll not pry my SUV from my cold hard you-know-what

[primavera]

26. Any thoughts on why?

I'm just curious, but I often see very tiny women behind the wheels of very large SUVs and have occasionally wondered if, being of smaller stature, they perhaps feel safer in a big vehicle? Is that something that might resonate with you?

[HipChick]

112. My other car is a UFO?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

22. I've never understood it

I've always liked small, maneuverable cars. I can certainly understand people who need such a vehicle for work or recreation. But for those who fancy them above any other vehicle if given the choice for their looks or non-existent handling abilities I remain baffled. I often see gigantic Escalades or Navigators needing wide, wide turn space in shopping centers with a tiny woman or man behind the wheel whose eyes are barely at dashboard level when observed by people walking across their path.

[Honeycombe8]

33. SUVs come in all sizes. Check out Subaru Forester, Toyota RAV, and others at

Consumerreports.org.

They have more road clearance, but don't sit high. The Forester is built on a car chassis...The RAV may be, too; don't know.

You are thinking of the large category of SUVs, but there are three categories: small, medium, and large. Just like sedans.

Why would anyone buy one of those huge Chrysler sedans? Or Cadillacs? They take a ton of room, are hard to maneuver, hard to park in urban settings, don't fit in small garages, can't carry certain things you may want to, don't get good gas mileage, etc.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

51. It's quite possible that I haven't kept up with what the marketers now call an SUV

If now some of them are small like cars then I have fewer objections. I have trouble with the size, not the appellation. I did rent a Nissan Rogue last year for a day and felt extremely uncomfortable behind the wheel. I had a feeling I wasn't able to control it and had no feel of the road and it was like sitting on an easy chair. I do agree that giant Cadillacs or other limousine-like vehicles are equally baffling, because I tend to like smaller cars.

[Honeycombe8]

63. The small and medium SUV category is wildly popular. The Subaru Forester & Toyota RAV have been

have been around since the 1990's, so they're not new. There has always been a SMALL and MEDIUM category of SUV, just like in sedans, trucks, etc.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

75. The ones I'm aware of are the land yachts

which I see you also find bizarre when driven by people who have no particular reason to drive them other than they actually find such things attractive. I don't know about the smaller SUVs but I have avoided all but the smallest cars in my life as I like the feeling behind the wheel of something peppy and maneuverable. What's usually wildly popular in American culture always seems to work out for me as the things I go out of my way to avoid but I admit I may not be aware of the full range of SUVs.

[SWTORFanatic]

25. SUVs combine some of the positives (and negatives) of both a van and a truck

Essentially an SUV is a truck with a camper shell on it but the bed has space for passengers and/or heavy stuff - like say if you want to haul around an engine (I hauled home an engine a friend and I rebuilt in the trunk of my chevy caprice once, not really ideal) or a huge crate with some heavy stuff in it.

Of course they have some of the poor handling characteristics of trucks and just as bad or worse gas mileage. They do tend to handle a little better than trucks though, sort of like a van since they have a better weight balance than a truck with an empty bed.

That said, I have not owned an SUV (or a truck or a van). I prefer sports cars. I am tall and lean and need the leg room of sitting on the floor and putting my legs forward. In a truck or SUV or van or even many cars my knees hit the dashboard. Also some people do like the high seating position, but I hate it. I like being anchored to the ground.

[primavera]

32. I can relate

I like having a lower center of gravity as well. The one time I drove a SUV, I kept feeling like I was going to tip over every time I went around a corner.

[patrice]

27. Because they don't think "small" things matter enough to tolerate the "inconvenience".

[Honeycombe8]

28. You don't know much about SUVs. Here's the skinny: (1) There are small SUVs;

(2) There are SUVs that are not big and heavy;
(3) There are SUVs that cost the same as hatchbacks and sedans;
(4) There are SUVs that get the same mileage as sedans;
(5) There are SUVs that are built on CAR chassis, so they are not classified as trucks.

Examples (check these out on consumereports.org):
Subaru Forester
Hyundai Tucson
Mitsubishi
Toyota RAV
Honda CR-V
Mini Cooper Countryman
Ford Escape or Ford Escape Hybrid
Nissan Rogue
Nissan Juke
Mazda CX-5

I had a Subaru Forester for 14 years. It was the best, most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. It held a lot of stuff, including some long items like house molding. It was great for toting dogs around. It was only 175 inches long, so fit into my tiny garage. The gas mileage was about 20mpg, which was good for when I bought it. It was built on a car chassis, so was classified as a wagon by my insurer.

Since I bought that Forester in 1997, small SUVs have come a long way. While once there was ONLY the Forester, there are now many competitors. They are sometimes called crossovers.

I always wonder why anyone would own a sedan. They are so impractical. I will buy only hatchbacks and SUVs and vehicles with a cargo area (not a "trunk&quot . I need to be able to put a 10' rolled up rug into my car and return it to the store, or put a chair in that I buy at a store, lots of bags of mulch from the nursery, etc. I don't need that often, but I do occasionally, so I need to buy a vehicle that accommodates the things I need it for.

Currently I have a Honda Fit....a great little hatchback that holds a TON of stuff, is fun to drive, gets great gas mileage, seats fold down flat for even more storage, and looks awesome and oh-so-cute. Schwing! But I'll replace it by a larger SUV-type vehicle that gets good gas mileage and fits in my small garage, and has proven reliability.

[primavera]

31. Yet you just made my case for me!

You're happily driving a Honda Fit that meets all of your needs and gets twice the gas mileage of a SUV and is a hell of a lot sportier, handles better, parks easier, and costs a lot less, right?

[Honeycombe8]

60. No, it doesn't cost less, comparing cost for size. The Forester costs less, comparing capability...

Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

and cargo space. The Forester runs about $27k...you can go to $30 with options. The Fit Sport was about $20 with options, for a TINY car. It's too small to keep as an only car for 14 years, like I kept the Forester. Which is why I have to trade it in and get a larger vehicle next year. You didn't read my whole post, did you?

It's also not comfortable, not made for older people (I'm 58), and I would not recommend it for a road trip. It really hurts the back.

But for a small, economical car, it's great. It will not hold that 10 foot rug I may want to return to Home Depot, or a big chair I might buy and want to take home instead of pay $50 delivery fee.

It also can't be used for camping or dog trips or things like that (sits too low to the ground), but I don't need that capability.

I also like a little more ground clearance, for going through flooded intersections and over big speed bumps.

So, it's all in what you need. I keep my cars a loooooong time. I have only one car, so it needs to have multiple uses. But I can get a SMALL SUV with great gas mileage that sits higher off the ground, and has a reasonable cost, and the driver doesn't sit higher (or much higher) than a sedan. I might get another Subaru Forester. Or I might check out the new Prius, which is a crossover SUV, tho I might have to accept a low-to-the-ground clearance, if I get that.

But I would recommend the Fit Sport to any young person. It's so fun to drive, has plenty of zip, and it's very useful and uber reliable. It would also be great as a second car, for a two-car family.

[Thegonagle]

198. I love my Honda Fit, but it does have its shortcomings.

From a standpoint of usefulness for the size and gas mileage you can achieve (if you don't beat on it constantly), it is on the very top of the game.

The interior is very cleverly designed, it has a full compliment of airbags and safety features, the 1.5 liter engine doesn't waste gas, and it handles at least as well as a sports car from a decade or two ago. The stereo also doesn't sound too bad, and it plays (and charges) my iPod through a USB port that's hidden in the upper glove compartment.

The seats work for me, although I find I can't just sink in and be comfortable; I have to sit in the "right" position. (Good for posture, I suppose.) Along with the sporty handling comes a "sporty" ride. By modern standards, it's honestly pretty harsh, probably one of the worst in US unless you're talking "pure" sports car (or a so-called Smart car).

It's also not the greatest Interstate cruiser by a long shot. Although you can easily cruise it at 70-75 MPH, you can tell the machinery is just happier if you keep it under 65. (The gas mileage meter surely tells me so--it gets 40 MPG at 60 MPH, 30 MPG at 75 MPH. 80 MPH? Why bother?)

It's also not an inexpensive car; it's probably the most expensive car in its category.

The next vehicle I purchase will have AWD. I've been eying the Ford Escape Hybrid on the used market lately.

[primavera]

218. Thanks for the review

The Fit had just come out when I was last looking at buying a new car and I almost went for it, for the benefits you describe. As chance had it, my local Toyota dealership at the time was offering an absolute steal deal lease on a new Prius, so we ended up going with that instead, but I've wondered from time to time whether we would have liked the Fit as much/more/less.

[Honeycombe8]

384. The Fit and the Prius are 2 different kinds of vehicles.

I researched & test drove both. The Fit is a so-called economy car, and pretty tiny. It's about 166 inches long. The Prius is about 175" long and is like a family hatchback car.

Both are great cars, depending on your needs.

Because of the Tsunami, a Prius here, even used, couldn't be found, though you could ORDER one, and maybe pay even over sticker price. So I got the Fit. I had to buy in a hurry. The Fit I wanted was hard to find, as well. But I found ONE.

The main reason I bought the Fit, besides reliability, cuteness, gas mileage, was that it has the highest resale value of a car in its class. When I go to sell it, people will line up to buy it. BTW, about the sound system, I think it's GREAT! And I got the Nav because the one on the lot had it, and that was the only white Fit Sport they had. The Nav works great.

I am going to check into the new, larger Prius, though. It is beautiful, will hold more stuff, but still gets great mileage. And the price isn't much more than the regular Prius. Priuses aren't cheap, though. Also, I couldn't get a Prius w/upgraded things w/o also getting leather seats, which I will not buy. The new larger Prius comes with synthetic leather seats, so I'm thinking that may be a good car for me.

[NYC_SKP]

34. Insecurity? Other countries don't have them, and the US scarcely had any before the 1990's.

It's an American thing, part of our consumeristic society, that many buy large SUVs and trucks.

In advance of all the thin excuses for owning one, I'm calling bullshit (in most every case).

It's been like an arms race:

"I need 'high seating' to be on par with the other 'tall' vehicles."

"I need it for all my kids for soccer." (there used to be 7 passenger wagons, even a Camry and Accord, until they took them off the US market).

I'm not buying any of the excuses.

For weather, all one needs is a Subaru.

----------

[Ruby the Liberal]

47. Excuses? LOL!

I bought my AWD new in 2007 and it just hit 27,000 miles about a week ago because I pretty much walk everywhere given that I can. I wanted it for AWD winter driving - and am not going to apologize for that nor call it an "excuse".

[NYC_SKP]

48. I make an exception in your case...

I'll bet it's not a behemoth, the sort that many buy just because they don't care about mileage and want to have the biggest rig on the block.

[Ruby the Liberal]

67. Heh - not at all.

It is basically a tall station wagon made out of a Maxima.

Mileage is actually pretty decent - I get in the mid 20s. Good tradeoff for AWD and the amount of cargo space for those occasional big things that won't fit in a car.

[Honeycombe8]

68. Europe has a lot of SUVs. They're sold all over the globe.

I think you're limiting SUV to the LARGE category of SUV, but in fact, there are also small and medium sized SUVs. I think more of those are sold than the large sized, but I'm not sure. Most of them are actually called crossovers now, but they're SUVs.

[NYC_SKP]

71. You are right. And"Crossover" is a clever name for "Station Wagon" which became uncool in the 90's.

Sure, more and more SUVs are smaller due to concerns with fuel economy.

I haven't been to Europe in 10 years, but when I was there LARGE trucks and SUVs wouldn't have fit the streets.

[Honeycombe8]

85. SUVs are the modern "wagon." Crossovers-not really a car category. It's a sales term, I think.

Crossovers are SUVs that have traits of cars AND trucks...which is what an SUV is.

You might call a Subaru Forester a crossover, but it's categorized as a small SUV. It's 180 inches long, has AWD, 7-8 inches of ground clearance (but driver doesn't sit high), it just feels more like a car than a truck w hen you're driving it. That's what "crossover" means. It also has a car chassis.

Ford calls its Edge car a crossover, as opposed to the Ford Escape. Not sure what the difference is, there, besides appearance.

[maddezmom]

111. thanks for that info

I thought a crossover was somehow different than a SUV. I have a MKX and thought I had downsized and didn't have a SUV anymore.

[NYC_SKP]

129. Yup. It would be a sales "kiss of death" to call a station wagon a "Station Wagon"...

I'm too old, I see these sales trends way too easily!

[maddezmom]

99. lots of large SUV's in the UK when I was there

Range Rovers and BMW'ers Also smaller ones like the Volvo....it's what I had the 2nd time we lived there and we all referred to it as the Taurus of the mommy set in the UK.

[cherokeeprogressive]

97. Scarcely any before the 90's? You DO know that the Suburban is the oldest continuously

produced automobile nameplate in the world, right? And that it was introduced in 1934 for the 1935 model year? Man, those greedy bastards in the 30's and their "Fuck the world I got mine" attitudes, huh?

So, I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bullshit on your post from the get-go. Seems you know not of what you speak.

I have a 1972 Chevy Blazer being restored which is the same size as a Chevy shortbed pickup. The Ford Bronco went full-size in 1977. The full-size Dodge Ramcharger began production in 1974.

"For weather, all one needs is a Subaru." What do you consider "weather"? A snow flurry here and there?

I've pulled countless Subarus and the like out of snow drifts and ditches and in the process saved them countless time waiting on tows, and money, but then "weather" to us is a 30" overnight snowfall.

[NYC_SKP]

108. And very few people bought them who didn't need one.

Most people aren't mountain people who come to the rescue of "flatlanders" who in their puny little treehugging cars get stuck blah blah blah....

[cherokeeprogressive]

186. Dammit I hate when that happens...

One of my weaknesses when it comes to posting on DU is replying to those who righteously proclaim what is best for everyone while proclaiming what standard everyone should be held to. I always seem to bring a sledgehammer to a knife fight and I'm sorry for that.

As far as rescuing flatlanders, there have been more than a few people who actually live up here who've needed help as well. It's just that I worry about the safety of the flatlanders when they come up to ski or play in the snow and wind up in distress wearing sneakers and sweaters. Who could look themselves in the mirror after leaving people like that to fend for themselves? Especially when they seemingly believe that the letters FWD, AWD, or even sometimes 4x4 roughly translates into "Never Needs Chains" in 140 different languages...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in 1935 practically EVERYONE who bought a Suburban needed one. There had to have been a need otherwise GM wouldn't have gone through what must have been the herculean task of designing and building them.

[NYC_SKP]

196. Trouble is sometimes that regional differences aren't appreciated.

Here in the central valley SUVs are ridiculously popular and driven largely by people with no need for them, who cannot drive or park them, and who make all manner of excuses for owning them.

Also, as shown in this thread, there's no consensus on what is meant by SUV, which I take in a knee jerk fashion to mean "stupid oversized stupid truck over 6,500 lb GVW", which isn't fair.

Of course they are utilitarian, and in 1986 my first new vehicle was an F-250 HD diesel that I used while remodeling a home in Rhode Island, and used to move back to California, then sold for something smaller.

When you mention 1935 vehicles I'm thinking of how small pickups were before the fifties, and how few vehicles of any sort were as heavy as a Suburban. Do people even know that they're driving vehicles to the mall that weigh more than delivery trucks and armored cars of the 1940's???

Peace to you, cherokeeprogressive.

[cherokeeprogressive]

207. I can't argue with a word of that.

This thread and the interaction with you has actually led me to do a little research and learn things I had never known. You're exactly right regarding there being no consensus about what constitutes an SUV.

Peace, Friend.

[Honeycombe8]

124. Interesting info. Even if you were a bit hostile sharing it with the group. IMO, no one

no one has any business being out in a 30" snowfall.

[Scuba]

235. Tell that to the woman who needs to get to the dialysis clinic....

for treatment, or to work.

[PavePusher]

255. Fortunately, you're not the boss of us. n/t

[Texasgal]

103. I'd like to see anyone

be able to stick four kids and a bag of groceries in a smart car.

[NYC_SKP]

109. I've had 10 foot lengths of pipe and lumber, and a 10 foot kayak, fulling inside my Prius....

though not at the same time as four passengers!

[kentauros]

289. Is that 10-foot lengths,

or ten foot-lengths / ten foot-kayaks?

[NYC_SKP]

295. Well, not ALL of these things at once!

Pipe one day, lumber the next, and the Kayak was just one time, but surprised the heck out of me when the lid latched!

[kentauros]

298. I understand about being surprised at what fits into a small vehicle.

My first new car was an '88 VW Fox Wagon. About a year later I was working for a software company as their only graphic artist. I needed a drafting table, and they didn't have any trucks to help me pick up the one I'd bought (trestle-style full-size drafting table.) I was thoroughly surprised when I managed to get the whole thing (disassembled) into the back of my wagon.

I still miss that car. It was a workhorse.

[drm604]

152. Smart cars aren't the only alternative to large SUVs.

My parents fit three boys and a collie in a regular passenger car with room in the trunk for groceries or whatever.

[Texasgal]

162. I realize that

I was just be facetious.

[frazzled]

225. You can fit 5 people and plenty of groceries in a Prius

And still get over 50 miles to the gallon.

You'd be surprised how much you can put in the back of a Prius, especially with the back seat down. About 5 years ago, we had to pick up flowers for a wedding (don't ask why they weren't delivered; it was a long story involving someone from the shop having to go out of town... so we said we'd pick them up ourselves). The girl at the florist shop looked a little skeptical when we pulled up in our Prius. As she helped us load the boxes of table arrangements and other things into the car she was amazed. "I can't believe how much you can fit in here," she said, and proceeded to ask us about the mileage, the cost, etc.

And the headroom is good, too.

[CrispyQ]

274. Yeah, if the three people in the back are skinny.

I've been in a Prius & I wouldn't travel more than a couple of miles in the back with three people!

on edit: They are fun to drive! I thought it was quite zippy! I was on the NW bypass & was going 85 before I even knew it! It was my boss' car. Hope he didn't get one of those scanned speeding tickets. ~lol.

[CrispyQ]

273. If you're smart enough you can do it!

Kind of like a Rubix cube.

[TheMightyFavog]

171. Other Countries don't have them?

Her Majestey's had an affinty for Land Rovers...



Mercedes-Benz G Class:



Renault Duster:



Russian UAZ



Lada Niva



The legendary Toyota FJ40?



SUVs see use in Australia, too...

[MADem]

199. In UK they call them "Chelsea Tractors" when they're making fun of 'em.

They were very popular amongst famiies in the London suburb--totally unnecessary, but popular nonetheless.

[TheMightyFavog]

201. I heard that particular term when I was over there...

I like Clarkson's take on why the British don't go for pickups...

[MADem]

205. Ha! Loved the dulcet tones of "Jerusalem" at the finish when the kid swiped the fire lighters! nt

[leveymg]

360. That's what the gun rack is for! Cheezitz, the Brits can be dense about some things.

American trucks and American guns for Real American Men. The English can have and their fire lighters. Presumably, they know what they can do with them.

[MADem]

361. People think there are no guns in UK, but that's not true. They do their share of

game shooting, skeet shooting and what - not. You never used to see Olde Phillip (the guy with his foot forever lodged in his mouth) up in Scotland at the vacation palace without his hunting tweeds and a rifle draped over his arm.

[leveymg]

362. I guess that America can still take comfort in the fact that Top Gear likes Russian trucks even less

than the Ford F150 Lightning. Or, did he say he used to.

All this raises the question: without a gun rack, where does one stow a half dozen .12 gauge Benellis in a RangeRover, anyway? Or, do they just let them nestle on the Wilton carpeting underfoot?

As for The Duke of Edinburgh, he and the Dick of Cheney should have taken a walk on the moors together, years ago.

[MADem]

364. If Dick and Phil took a stroll, I wouldn't count on Dickie getting the best of PP!

That guy has a quick, if scathing and vicious, wit--no reason to think he's not a quick draw!

I'm guessing the servants are responsible for pre-staging the weapons....all the shooters have to do is show up and have their weapon handed to them!

[leveymg]

365. Whether you arrive on the Raj's elephants or an armoured SUV, that's always been the way it's done

I must have forgotten what life with servants is like. Oh my.

[MADem]

367. Hee hee--great pics! nt

[guardian]

389. But do other countries have the Canyonero?

Can you name the truck with four wheel drive, Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five? Canyonero! Canyonero! Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down, It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown, Canyonero! Canyonero! Hey, hey! Twelve yards long, two lanes wide, Sixty five tons of American pride! Canyonero! Canyonero! Top of the line in utility sports, Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts! Canyonero! Canyonero! She blinds everybody with her super high beams, She's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine, Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero! Whoa, Canyonero! Whoooooaaaa!

[Tom Ripley]

41. Herd marketing

[CleanLucre]

88. sheeple

[madmom]

42. My family has 2 Jeep Grand Cherokees. None of us are under

6 foot tall. It's kind of nice not having to ride around with our chin resting on our knees. Besides that we never miss work because of bad weather.

[primavera]

50. Not missing work is a good thing?

I think I'd rather have the excuse to stay home for the day!

[lapislzi]

252. Some companies don't like that sort of thing.

Especially if it happens frequently. I live in "upstate" New York (people around here consider anything north of Westchester "upstate&quot , in a semi-rural area. Most winters it snows A LOT. I was sick of a) having to leave work early because of daytime snows b) missing work because of bad road conditions c) being stuck on the way to or from work. At the time I bought my Jeep SUV, I was single, living alone, and sick of biting my nails from November to March. Unless there's a raging blizzard outside, the boss expects people to make the effort to get to work, not necessarily taking into account that some people live farther away and have a tougher time of it.

If I lived 25 miles further south, I might have made a different decision. But I am not sorry.

[RB TexLa]

46. Mainly so people like you can look down their noses at them.

[primavera]

55. Have I looked down my nose at you?

If so, I apologize, I thought I was making every effort to be respectful and courteous. If I failed, I'm sorry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Before you say a thing, we are looking at perhaps replacing

our old truck with one.

Before you ask why... covering the back country we need something that can do 4WD... that said, most SUVs don't... even looking at a Subaru to be honest. And will be a couple of years before we even go there.

My experience, most people who have these vehicles will never use them to their potential...

[Raine]

53. Because people don't want to get squashed like a bug on the road when a big ole truck hits them

aka ... safety reasons.

[primavera]

57. But where does that end?

Today you need a normal SUV to feel safer, tomorrow you need a Suburban, after that, you need a Humvee, then you need... what, a tank? An aircraft carrier?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

101. Just nail the garage to the exterior of the car and drive that down the road

[primavera]

105. Lmao!

Thanks - I just snorted ice coffee out my nose!

[Thegonagle]

229. Naw, just a semi truck. A loaded semi will squash several Escalades

and a Subaru or two before it even slows down.

[hack89]

54. Towing a boat or a horse trailer. nt

[magical thyme]

56. heh! subaru outback is the Maine state car

seriously. They are *everywhere* here.

[primavera]

65. I know, I spent a winter in Maine once

It damned near killed me and you're right, in a place like Maine, you're in trouble without at least AWD.

[kwassa]

58. Cubic footage.

SUVs, the large ones, have lots of space for hauling passengers and cargo, just like minivans. The market for big SUVs nose-dived in the run-up of gas prices in the past few years; now all the manufacturers are marketing "crossover" vehicles, which are basically lowered SUVs with better mileage.

Families with multiple children need vehicles that will carry all the kids plus their gear, and we live in a gear-heavy society now. Only minivans, SUVs, and crossovers will do that. A Honda Fit won't.

Part of the reason SUVs came about was image; while minivans are practical, they weren't sexy, and sexy self-image is an important factor for many in car purchases. People buy cars for both practical and emotional reasons. SUVs are derived from Jeeps and other off-road vehicles, though few of them are taken off-road, but give a touch of macho, wilderness man to the average suburban dad. Or mom.

There are hybrid SUVs and crossovers, by the way. While the Prius is a morally correct vehicle, many who purchase vehicles really don't care about that. They want a car that both carries everything they need, and kicks ass when merging with freeway traffic.

[boppers]

158. So, cubic footage for the homeless/nomads, then?

No need for a house, keep it all in the car?

I can see that for the Bedouin.

[kwassa]

292. Do you have kids?

[boppers]

305. It they took up that much cubic footage,

I'd consider taking them to a doctor.

[kwassa]

317. Thank you. You've answered my question.

You don't.

[boppers]

331. LOL, bzzt! I pack my twin boys tight.

I knew exactly what you were referencing, the "OMG I need to buy and carry everything" insane over-packing that some young/new parents tend to acquire as a habit, but seriously, the amount of crap a new parent packs in with their children tends to increase with the amount of space available, and next thing you know... there's a carseat (or two), a stroller (or three), booster seats for restaurants. multiple diaper bags, a playpen, bouncy chairs, walkers, backup outfits, activity equipment (sports/dance/whatever), portable game players, snacks, favorite stuffed animals, random toys... and you're out of room.

Ask me how I could possibly know about this, and see if you can get the right answer this time.

See also: People who run out of space in their kitchen, because they have an oven, a toaster, a toaster oven, a microwave, a range, a foreman grill, a griddle, (etc. etc.).

[kwassa]

332. uh, you have no idea.

You just made a very bad guess.

You haven't described my family, or the family of anyone I know.

[boppers]

334. Okay, what do you need that cannot be easily packed into a sedan?

Enlighten me, because apparently you have a problem that I don't.

[laundry_queen]

336. Carseats.

If you have 3 kids, most sedans will not be able to have 3 carseats installed *correctly* and *safely* next to each other in the back seat (I know people who have managed to fit 3 in, but it's not easy and most carseat safety tests haven't been done with 3 seats touching crowded in the backseat - even if the carseats FIT the safety of such a configuration is unknown). Seeing as how the last province I lived in required a car seat or booster seat until age 9 or 80 lbs (whatever came first), this is now a reality for many families. It's the reason I moved to a minivan from a sedan.

[boppers]

338. Fair enough.

More kids = more carseats.

But the OP was about an SUV, not a minivan.

[kwassa]

354. That's the problem

There is nothing unique to SUVs that is also not true of any other larger vehicle, including minivans and trucks, in terms of gasoline consumption.

Also, the SUV market is broad, and contains vehicles of very different sizes and gasoline consumption.

The author of the OP doesn't appear to know this, or wish in any real way to learn about it.

[madokie]

59. I think the best thing for you is to not drive one

nor own one but for some of us they are the perfect vehicle. Let me see if I can give you a few reasons why we have one.
Kids and Grand kids
Hauling materials to work on and around the house/place in
Easy to get into and out of for old people
Handles just fine if you ask me and I used to be a sports car nut in my younger days
Ours is a ford Explorer and so we've only spent about two hundred dollars on it since it was new in '98 for repairs.
Gets around 20 mpg puttering around here on short drives but since we don't drive much that really doesn't bother us much.
Did I mention it is easy for us old people to get into and out of, Oh yes I did
The last small car we had cost us way more money on repairs than the added cost that the fuel cost us in this one
Its paid for and has been for years so other than tires, an oil change once a year and about 50 bucks of fuel every three weeks or so its pretty cheap to operate
Insurance is cheap on it as the insurance companies see them as us less likely to be injured if we do get into an accident so they don't charge us as much.
Actually handles pretty good, has full time 4 wheel drive with 4 wheel anti-lock brakes that is super on wet or frozen roads. Ice and snow is not a problem for us and rain slicken roads aren't as treacherous either.
It hauls a lot of stuff that we seem to need to haul quit often and its easy for us old people to get into and out of, Oh I already listed that but anyway here it is again.
On the rare occasions that we travel any distance it is quite comfortable and gets pretty good gas mileage on those trips too as we're not stopping and taking off all the time so the gas mileage goes up appreciably
Very comfortable to ride in or drive and easy for us old people to get in and out of.
We never ask someone who drives an econobox why they torture themselves driving them as we feel its none of our business
Much of our traffic is big trucks and big pickups so our suv fits right in and we don't feel quite so threatened when we look in the rear view mirror and all you see if you're in an econobox is an 18 wheelers front bumper as we don't see that. We actually see much further up on the front of that big truck so its not quite as intimidating.
Very comfortable and easy for us old people to get in and out of.
We never just go driving for no reason at all other than to drive so we don't waste money on fuel just driving around. When we're driving around its because we have a purpose and most times its more than one purpose and many times we need the room that it provides us
Easy for us old people to get in and out of and is very comfortable to ride in, oops done said that.
Last but not least it is none and I repeat none of your bidness what we drive as long as we drive responsibly.
You want to drive in a little econobox, go for it. We don't.
Between our two vehicles we might drive 4000 miles in a year, I said might.
Peace and have a good evening
Oh since our tires are much bigger than the little econobox tires are they last a lot longer and don't cost all that much more to buy considering the cost of installing and balancing a tire is the same no matter the size of it
Actually when I was keeping track of the cost of driving, the SUV is cheaper in the long run than the small car we had for a few years before it was and the price of fuel has gone up three times since then.
Oh and its easy for us old people to get into and out of and its quite comfortable to ride in.
Peace and have a great evening

I'd like to add that it doesn't make up for any shortcomings as our sex life has nothing to do with our choice of vehicles. Actually Its quite enjoyable thank you

[primavera]

84. Up to a point

First of all, I'm glad that you like your SUV and that it suits your purposes. I wasn't actually criticizing you for driving one, only expressing curiosity as to why SUV drivers were so infatuated with them.

However, I part ways with you to some extent when you say that it's no one's business what you drive so long as you drive responsibly. Absolutely it is no one's business what you drive if your driving choice harms no one. The tricky bit comes when you try to find a mutual definition of what constitutes "harm." Some people would argue that, because of their size and marginal handling, SUVs make the roads less safe for drivers of other vehicles. There are enough studies out there to suggest that may indeed be true. If you're driving a vehicle that belches out emissions, some might argue that you're contributing to poor air quality that the rest of us have to breath. If your vehicular choices contribute excessively to higher rates of respiratory diseases that the rest of us have to suffer from and pay higher insurance premiums for in order to treat, is that not also a potentially valid basis for claiming a harm being done? There is a finite quantity of oil in the world and, as we consume more and more of it, it becomes scarcer and we pay more at the gas pump for it. We undertake environmentally risky activities like drilling in deep water, producing catastrophes like the BP oil spill (and the lesser oil spills that occur around the world on approximately a weekly basis). Arguably, much of our foreign policy is motivated by our demand for cheap oil to fuel our vehicular choices, causing us to invade countries like Iraq at great expense in both money and human lives. If every person in the US drove a high fuel efficiency, low emission vehicle, we wouldn't need to do these sorts of things. I might still be able to eat Gulf seafood that isn't covered in crude oil. I might be able to travel in the Middle East without fearing for my life. I might be able to breath without the aid of an asthma inhaler. As it stands, we have to provide large quantities of cheap gas for consumers who want to drive fuel inefficient vehicles, so I don't get to do those things. One could argue that constitutes a harm. If you don't think it is, come visit us on the Gulf Coast and take a look for yourself at the grotesquely mutated seafood coming out of the Gulf since the BP oil spill and the vast dead tracts in what used to be one of the world's most fertile and diverse ecosystems. If your choices are, indeed, causing someone else a harm, even if only indirectly, do you still feel like your choices are none of their business?

[madokie]

125. Some people will argue with a post

Please don't show me that you are one of them.
I gave you the reasons we drive an suv and thats as far as it should go. If you want to argue the semantics of that then find someone else to argue with, I'm not interested.

As I said earlier
Peace and have a good evening.

Oh and my driving an suv with the amount of driving we do does not make me responsible for the bp oil spill any more that you driving whatever you drive, or bus you ride or taxi you take. Thats a whole different ball game altogether

[primavera]

127. My apologies

I understood that this was a discussion thread, i.e., an exchange of different viewpoints. If that strikes you as argumentative or otherwise offensive, I offer my humble apologies.

[madokie]

131. Apology accepted

I wasn't the one with the problem here, you were.

[primavera]

136. I wasn't aware I had a problem, but okay, whatever you say - n/t

[madokie]

139. Self awareness is important in life

give it some thought
re-read what has transpired between you and I and maybe you can see where the problem lies

[ChazII]

217. Thank you for your common sense. n/t

[madokie]

231. You are most welcome

You have to watch this place, sometimes it gets *trazy*, if you don't cow down or walk the fine line you are vilified as I've been when actually all I did is give my true assessment of why some of us have SUV's and why they are the perfect vehicle for us who do. It has nothing to do with the size of my part or my having an inferiority complex, I don't, it all has to do with what works for me and my wife.

[Skittles]

61. because they feel entitled

aka "assholes"

[madokie]

72. Excuse me

maybe you need an asskicking, huh

[Ruby the Liberal]

78. Did you even bother to read this thread

or are you just calling entire swaths of DUers "assholes" for the hell of it?

[Skittles]

115. yeah I did

every time I am stuck behind one of those unnecessary behemoths that blocks my view of highway signs and stop lights I think, "FUCKING ASSHOLE".

[madokie]

138. Don't follow so fucking close then

actually you're breaking the law if you are so close that an SUV if blocking your view.
You have a problem and it is not SUV's
I'm happy you think they are unnecessary behemoths because that tells me more about you than it does about the SUV or the drivers there of.
Peace

[Skittles]

140. you DON'T HAVE TO BE CLOSE

SERIOUSLY

if you want to drive those pieces of shit that is fine - but I reserve the right to think what I think about it

[madokie]

141. I'm sure glad you are not king

You want to push off onto me what you believe and when I push back you get all beside yourself. my my
You also don't have to use all caps but you did, but you did, but you did

Let it lie its not worth getting upset about.
I still love ya'
and I'll continue to like and drive my SUV because of the reasons I gave

[Skittles]

145. ????

who exactly is pushing? I DON'T LIKE SUVs - END OF STORY.

[blueamy66]

239. I drive a 2 door Chevy Cavalier....

and it's a TOTAL BITCH to back out of a parking spot when sandwiched between 2 big ass gas guzzlers....they should have to park out in the boondocks so as to not block peoples' views in parking lots....

and they are unnecessary behemoths for 80% of their drivers

[MineralMan]

253. That's why I park my 1991 Volvo wagon

out in left field and always where I can pull through and park facing out. I'm content to let the SUVs and minivans park near the store. I can use the exercise at age 66, or so my doctor tells me. If you don't want to park between two large vehicles, don't park there. There are plenty of open spaces out in left field, truly.

[blueamy66]

257. true

but why should I have to hike to the store because of these huge ass suvs?

I might just have to park way out in left field in the future.

[MineralMan]

259. You don't have to, but it is a real stress-reliever,

it avoids all the traffic of people trying to find the closest parking spot, and means you can just drive off when you're finished shopping. I started parking way out the second time someone backed into the side of my car when they were backing out of a parking space. Now, I drive into the parking lot, park near the exit, way out in left field, and avoid all of that nonsense. It works great. I don't have comprehensive coverage on my ancient Volvo, so if someone damages it and drives off, it's expensive.

It's a choice, but a pretty good one, it turns out. The only drawback is that they don't have cart corrals way out there, so you do have to push your cart back toward the store. I try to shop so I can carry all the stuff out of the store by hand.

Anything that cuts stress is a good thing, in my opinion.

[blueamy66]

262. good advice

anything that cuts stress is a good thing!

[left is right]

66. My daughter bought a CRV in order to take

herself, me, the 3 grandkids and my mother all at the same time. Now my mother is bedridden so we no longer need it but she is still paying for it

[RKP5637]

73. I have a Lincoln Town Car as one of our cars and we are dwarfed by

some of the SUVs around here. If I pull in between two of them in a parking lot I feel like I'm between two mountains and they tower over me, I feel like I'm in a mini car.

And often there is only the driver in the SUV. I don't get it either. I feel like I'm wasteful in a TC, but at least I get reasonable gas mileage. Then I look at the huge SUVs here and I feel like I'm on a bicycle.

[primavera]

110. That one bugs me too

Behind some of the real behemoths, I feel like I might as well be driving behind a building for all I can see.

[GP6971]

79. People with

bad backs find it easier to stow groceries, luggage etc than in a traditional car trunk.

[cherokeeprogressive]

81. I drive a Tahoe because I live at 7,000 feet. We've been known to get 30" of snow overnight.

Once the roads are plowed the smaller lighter 4X4s, AWDs, and SUVs seem to be nothing more than skates.

And because I sometimes tow a boat from here down the mountain and back again. I wouldn't dream of pulling a boat up to 7,000 ASL with anything less.

I would add that I've never seen an AWD like a RAV4 or such pull an AWD like an Outback or such out of a ditch when a flatlander puts his/hers in it... so there's always the "it makes me a few extra dollars a winter" aspect as well.

[crazyjoe]

83. people drive SUV's because they like them.

There great for hauling around the family, going camping, beach, shopping, ect...
There is a reason they are so popular, people love them.
They are safer to drive and ride in too. Have you ever seen a politician or a movie star ever ride in anything besides a suv? not just any suv either, I'm talking the gigantic suv's.

[scheming daemons]

89. Because they have small penises

[taterguy]

92. Define small

[boppers]

159. small:

Using external symbols to mask internal self doubt and discomfort.

[taterguy]

168. What does internal self doubt and discomfort have to do with penis size?

[boppers]

304. "internal self doubt and discomfort" is the primary reason a person would care about such things.

[taterguy]

306. According to who?

[Ruby the Liberal]

98. Some of us don't have one at all.

[nadine_mn]

135. I hear there are stores where you can buy one

not that I ever would visit such places, well maybe by accident. But I use them only for massage purposes.

[boppers]

160. Don't worry, US car companies can sell you one.

If you cannot assert yourself in conventional ways, you can buy an "I'M AN ASSHOLE" vehicle to do it for you.

[cherokeeprogressive]

203. Oh come on! Here I thought we were talking about penises and now you're talking about ASSHOLES?

Oh and by the way... the small penis reference in post 89 was purely physical and you know it.

That's how the Penis Size Shamers work. It's hardly likely that someone would be shamed into changing behavior the way Penis Size Shamers want them to if you reference some wierd penis as soul inhabitant id shit rather than your perception of their teenie weenie.

[cherokeeprogressive]

100. It took 89 replies before the first "I'm going to change your behavior by trying to shame you..."

"over your penis size" to show up?

Isn't that some kind of record?

And when will the Penis Size Obsessed learn it's the LAST thing that might work to change someone's behavior? My wife drives a Tahoe, and I've yet to find her penis, after years of trying no less. Is it simply because I'm looking in the wrong place?

[boppers]

161. Dick-waving is not a matter of physical body.

It is within the soul, not the body.

[cherokeeprogressive]

189. So my penis is in my soul?

Is that to say I'm fucked inside and out?

[MineralMan]

254. Psst...she left it in the Tahoe. Look there...

[nadine_mn]

132. As a woman, I must have Vagina Envy because I pack so many big things in my SUV

right?

[boppers]

163. Only if you think it matters in the slightest.

If you give power to objects, that object has power over you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

388. The SUV owners in my acquaintance generally have none at all. n/t

[Mopar151]

96. 'Cuz owning 2 or 3 vehicles for the same driver can get crazy/impossible for several reasons

Most SUV;'s are like camels - versatile and capable, but ugly, expensive, and cantankerous - you know, a horse designed by a committee. But buy a TDI Jetta so you can park the Yukon Denali most of the time, and registration/insurance will kill a couple grand a year plus parking, and then you gotta amortize the cost of the vehicle....

[Gregorian]

104. Why do people drive.

Just had to put things in perspective.

[primavera]

107. Because modern life in the US necessitates it

Few, if any, cities have sufficiently advanced public transportation networks to allow one to really function without an automobile. We do not offer a viable alternative way of achieving the level of mobility required in a modern society. Driving some sort of vehicle is therefore a practical necessity in this time and place. However, that does not mean that we all have to drive gas guzzlers. There ARE viable alternatives to driving gas guzzling, emission belching vehicles.

[Gregorian]

113. That's a pretty good answer.

But somewhere between 10-20% of the energy a car ever uses is required to just manufacture it. My point being that finger pointing is pretty hypocritical.

Another thing is to look at how much fuel someone uses over a time span. Just because they drive a big vehicle doesn't mean they use more fuel. I often get in my four wheel drive truck, which is the biggest monster on the road. Nearly 7000 pounds. Yet I fill up about once a year. So if people see me driving they get all pissed off. Little do they know that I put on thousands of miles per year on a bike. And believe me, if you ever have commuted by bike you then have the true perspective that almost all Americans lack. That's a thread of it's own. A book of it's own. I'd give an awful lot to be living in Belgium or France. A place where cyclists are respected, and expected. Even the Prius drivers over here don't understand that.

What I'm really trying to point out is the mentality of driving in general. And the fact that people have designed their lives around driving. I have designed mine to avoid cars. And it's a very difficult thing to achieve in this car crazed country.

I left out something very important to this discussion. That is, I witness more frivolous driving than that which is required as per your statements. If we're going to be critical of the act of driving, then we should be specific about it. And what I see is multiple trips where one would suffice, driving to go on a walk. driving to go on a bike ride, driving to multiple grocery stores to get something that isn't in one. Where is the planning, or the sacrifice. After all, we're pretty much talking about global warming here. That's what this entire thread is about.

[primavera]

119. Hear, hear!

I would love to live in a place like Amsterdam where you can just pick up a bike anywhere and ride it as long as you want. I lived in Prague for a couple of years and was amazed by how well the subways worked. They ran around the clock, took you pretty much anywhere you needed to go, ran frequently so you never had to wait more than a few minutes, and you could buy a monthly pass that entitled you to unlimited usage of the subway, the trolleys, the buses, everything. It worked so well and was so cheap compared to driving, almost nobody drove. Traffic was unheard of, it was great. But you're right, we don't have that kind of infrastructure here.

Oh, and I too have commuted by bicycle, so know first hand the kind of thing you're talking about. In one neighborhood I lived in many years ago, I had to ride along the edge of a multilane suburban highway and guys in SUVs used to throw beer cans at me as they hurtled past. Okay, so maybe I'm not totally unbiased when it comes to SUV drivers as a result...

[Gregorian]

209. You've got me rethinking this. There are two approaches to a better country.

I watched the first stage of the Tour de France today. But not before riding my daily 20 miles through the forest. As I watched the Belgian countryside from the aerial view, and saw the crowds on the side of the road encouraging the peloton, I realized that there is something artistic about the Europeans that we do not have in America. One of the churches was from the 11th century. I can't even imagine what it must have been like to live in 1050 in the Belgian country villages. The playful way that the farmers cut their grass, with the intention of being caught on camera by the helicopter cameras during the Tour. There is some kind of sentiment that subtlety is more important than being forceful. I've always said it is the result of going slower. And in fact, as I write this I realize that I am offended by the speed of which Americans are moving.

Having said that, one way of making this a better place is through personal choice. I happen to be one of those who designed my life that way. I'm kind of like a European who was misplaced in the wrong country. Almost 60, and single. I live to ride my bike. I work as little as possible. I get in a car once every 7 days, and only to go shopping. But that's not the way it is going to happen, even if I am saddened that it isn't the case.

But what you are making me realize is that this is a top down solution. And that, as pathetic as it seems, we need a leader to teach the country limits. Of course the only ones who would listen are liberals, if I may say so. But that infrastructure would change everything. And that would span politics. Everyone would be on a bike. What people don't realize is that the happiest societies are the ones who are not in cars. The smells, breeze, heart rate, sounds, friendship. The benefits are manifold. But right now, to hear me, most people would consider it a neurosis. What we need is what you pointed out.

Our troops and our money could come home and build such a thing. That's what Obama's New Deal should be, I believe.

[primavera]

213. Well, I'm a populist at heart too

And I do think that Americans are as capable of reaching responsible decisions as anyone else is - provided that they have the necessary information upon which to base their decisions. With idiots like Rush Limbaugh out there telling everyone that global warming is a hoax, the integrity of the information reaching people is questionable. I do think an effective leader can make a positive impact in getting information out to the public and offering their vision for possible solutions. Think back to Jimmy Carter's administration. For a while there, he managed to reach out and make the case convincingly to the American public that we needed to conserve energy and damned if it didn't work to some extent. People began to recognize the points he was making and we started to see movement towards smaller, more fuel efficient cars, more energy efficient homes, etc. And then Ronnie Raygun came along with his "don't worry, be happy" pitch and we went back to excessive consumption of energy, damn his eyes. But I think that Carter demonstrated that a leader with a vision, and with the evidence to back up his views, can get through to people and really make a difference. The problem is that we've grown so jaded and the informational waters have become so muddied, I don't know how to get back to that point where people are willing to trust anyone in public office.

Thank you for you thoughtful post, you've given me much to think about too.

[dmallind]

247. Ah yes the romanticized view

Here's what the European auto experience REALLY looks like the 99% of the time it's not kept hidden by closed roads and made for TV events...

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I5013146552566450&pid=1.7&w=228&h=140&c=7&rs=1

[Gregorian]

249. I'm fully aware of that.

There is more to it than meets the eye. Also, when we were driving Buicks the size of hotels, many were riding mopeds. When we have ice in every drink here, they had to ask for it, if it was even available. Cars had double the efficiency. And population density is a magnitude greater there than here, in many places.

It's true that I romanticize to a degree. I try to check myself. I'm constantly asking whether it's just the grass looking greener. They're still clearcutting forests in some places. And there are many who I have discovered just don't have a clue, like us. And vice versa. But it's out of necessity that Europeans at least have an awareness of efficiency. Americans for the most part still don't. Although that has started to change. But only just started. We're 30 years late. And the planet is not happy.

[HopeHoops]

106. Making up for something inadequate.

[Atman]

116. What the hell is an SUV?

Term doesn't really mean squat anymore. An Excursion or Tahoe? An Expedition? A crossover, like a Sante Fe? Or a small crossover like a CRV or Tuscon? Or perhaps you mean a Subaru Forester?

It's a dumb question that's been asked a million times on DU, and it always incites a near-riot. We have choices...I own a mid-size crossover for the storage, ground clearance and AWD, because those were important features. It gets 24mpg highway, about 19 overall average. And we have a all 5-door/wagon that gets 32 mpg.

Good for you that you don't want one or need one. But I'm not you and you're not me.

[primavera]

123. I'm afraid I missed those threads

I don't doubt the subject has been raised before, unfortunately, I never saw those posts, so had to ask again. If you've had your fill of such questions, please feel free to skip over this thread.

As for having choices, I wonder if you might be willing to share your thoughts on my post 84. No one else has commented on it and, I confess, I'm curious what a "choice" champion would have to say about it.

[Ruby the Liberal]

137. I'll answer it.

I drive under 5,000 miles a year. My 5.5 year old AWD just rolled to 27,000 miles about a week ago.

My answer is NUNYA.

You can lay the blame on SUV owners for BP's irresponsibility and respiratory ailments all you like, but as long as people are out driving more than I am, I really don't give a flying fuck what they think about my choice.

Hows that?

[primavera]

147. So where do YOU draw the line?

So you drive less than many people do, good, that's nice. If you were to drive those fewer miles in a vehicle that got better gas mileage and produced fewer emissions, you could be doing even better, leaving an even smaller carbon footprint. I'm not trying to suggest that you personally are some egregious offender, but I don't understand your logic. You seem to be ready to lay 100% of the blame for pollution and adverse environmental impact at the feet of irresponsible companies. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely at the front of the lynch mob looking for BP's head on a spike. But if ordinary consumers didn't behave as they did, and as you apparently feel comfortable justifying, BP wouldn't be out there drilling in the deep waters of the Gulf in the first place. Consumer behavior may not be the proximate cause of oil spills, but it is still a cause in fact, i.e., a "but for" cause. It sometimes seems like champions of free choice are terribly eager to assert their rights to make their own individual choices, but if/when those choices produce adverse repercussions, they have no desire to accept responsibility for them. To be sure, SUV drivers are not solely responsible for all of our excessive energy consumption and resultant environmental problems - every man, woman, and child living on planet earth and consuming energy bears their own infinitesimally small portion of responsibility for those problems that affect not only themselves, but everyone else with whom they share the planet. For that reason, I think all of us have some duty to each other to do our best to minimize, as much as our circumstances allow us to, that adverse impact. How much each person can do is obviously up to each person to decide for themselves and, if you need a gas guzzler for your business or to get around in adverse weather or over crappy roads or whatever, that's great. What I don't understand is why people claim that their freedom of choice absolves them altogether from any responsibility for even trying to minimize the adverse effects of their choices.

[Ruby the Liberal]

153. I will just put you down as being a better liberal than me.

Only having one vehicle, I will choose AWD and cargo space over the inconvenience of being stranded when the roads are unplowed/icy or having to hire a truck to get something home from a store that won't fit in the car. And I make NO apologies for that.

YMMV (so to speak)



On edit - interesting conversation, but going into the trashcan now. I don't do the "I'm a better liberal than you" game.

[primavera]

206. I wish you'd reconsider

I'm not trying to play some "I'm a better liberal than you" game, I'm honestly just trying to understand where exactly my thinking diverges from that of many of my fellow Dems. I perceive - perhaps incorrectly - several links in a chain here:

1. Poor air quality, global climate change, and environmental degradation are serious problems which affect everyone.
2. Vehicle emissions and excessive energy consumption are significant contributors to those problems.
3. The choices of individuals like us have an impact upon how much energy we collectively consume and how much pollution we produce, ergo, we as individuals bear some portion of responsibility, through our individual consumption choices, for the contribution we make to those problems which affect everyone else.
4. An individual's freedom of choice does not extend to behaviors which harm others.
5. Conclusion: Freedom of choice does not impart to an individual license to waste energy and pollute more than is necessary.

Am I wrong? Where is the weak link? Where is the flaw in my logic? If I've made a hash of it, I'd really like to know.

[REP]

219. Okay - I drive a little two-seater. Am I a better liberal?

My husband's crossover SUV gets better mileage than my little 308HP 2-seater.

My car is a model year 2008 that I got in November 2007; I'm 37 miles shy of turning 15,000 miles on it. So - evil or what?

[primavera]

221. I have no idea whether you're a better liberal or not

I'm not presuming to judge. I'm only trying to understand why some of my fellow liberals seem to feel strongly that they possess a sacred freedom of choice that elevates decisions which may - or may not - be excessive or wasteful or what have you, that in some way adversely affect others, beyond reproach.

[REP]

222. We don't have kids, that's why

We could drive fucking Hummers and still not create as much waste as having kids would have. So we don't feel at all bad about his SUV or my sportscar.

[guardian]

299. So basically your problem with SUVs boils down to

your belief in anthropogenic global warming.

[primavera]

301. Actually, despite the eager assertions of some SUV defenders...

... who imagine that they know my mind better than I do, I don't have a problem with either SUVs or the people who have a need for them. I do have a problem with conspicuous consumption and a desire to do something to reduce global climate change. Apparently that is enough to make some people feel threatened.

[guardian]

313. Thank you

for affirming my assertion.

[nadine_mn]

118. We drive a Hyundai Santa Fe and I love it

We live in Minnesota so I like having a larger vehicle in the snow. We used to live in Iowa on an old farm and the only way in was a dirt road - that was when we first got our Jeep and fell in love with SUVs. We also have large dogs and they fit more comfortably in the SUV than any car.

Our Santa Fe gets decent gas mileage (its no Prius) but I like being high up.


We are not rich (I have been unemployed for a few years) and my husband takes the bus to work so we really don't drive much except to go to the Y and to run errands on weekends. Its not as expensive to fill up as some other SUV's.

[pecwae]

232. An all around good

and inexpensive mode of transportation. I haul gardening and home improvement supplies in and on top of it, pull a trailer loaded with the same. When I shop I can make all my stops in one trip and not have to move the car for a few days. Have four (two large, two medium) dogs to take to the vet and one trip makes more sense than two.

So, SUV haters who group all SUV owners into bad liberals and assholes can just lump me into their little file of people to despise and envy. Unless they are urban dwellers or don't own a vehicle I probably drive far less than they do and leave a smaller or similar carbon print with my hulking horrible penis substitute.

[TBF]

126. I actually don't own one but I can think of one - pets

I have a Subaru wagon that my 2 labs can fit in (barely). I'd love a bigger SUV for hauling them around (along with my 2 kids). Eventually I'll probably get one. But yes - it's usually for things like that or car-pooling (a lot of folks in the suburbs car-pool their kids to activities etc).

[primavera]

130. I've got three dogs myself

They seem to do alright in the back of my Prius, but they do tend to lie on top of each other a bit. Since they tend to lie on top of each other a lot at home, too, I figure they probably don't mind too much.

[TBF]

151. What size dogs?

Mine are labs - one is 60 lbs. and the other 90+ lbs. I've not seen a Prius up close but I assume you're talking about the back seat. I wouldn't be able to fit my family in that car - especially when we have to evacuate for the hurricanes.

[primavera]

154. I dunno, we evacuated during Gustav without too much trouble

The Prius has a hatchback that holds a fair amount, but, of course you're right, it all depends upon the size of your family. We've got a golden retriever, an english springer, and a small lap dog, but we don't have any children with whom they have to share the backseat. Sorry, I'm not trying to suggest that everyone needs to go rushing out and buying a Prius (although I have to plug them a bit because I really like them a lot), different people obviously have different needs.

[Mendocino]

371. For pets just get a

roofrack.

Dogs against Romney!

[TBF]

372. Don't even get me started -

I actually put one of the Dogs against Romney bumper stickers on my car (I'm in suburban Brazoria County - south of Houston - home of Ron Paul). I'm so sick of seeing the Ron Paul Revolution ones so I had to represent. To be fair in our part of the county there are many others with Obama stickers too. We are in a newer part ... drive a little further south and it's all red and the dogs ride in the back of the pick ups ...

[Duer 157099]

133. Backup plan for homelessness? n/t

[justiceischeap]

375. That's why I bought mine.

I figured if I lost my job and needed a place to live, an SUV was better than a truck and not much different than a mini-van (plus, since they are so unpopular, I was able to get one fairly cheap).

As an FYI, I use public transport to work daily, so though I own a "horrible" SUV, I'm not abusing the environment or my fellow drivers too much.

[primavera]

134. Thank you everyone for your responses!

I'm overwhelmed by the response; it very generous of you all to share your viewpoints and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to answer my question.

[JVS]

142. CAFE

The CAFE regulatory system created a difficult standard for automobiles and an easier standard for "trucks" and truck based vehicles. As a result the large family sedan and station wagon (the norm for many years) have given way to the minivan and SUV. You simply cannot buy a 6 passenger sedan today.

[Sgent]

143. I drive a crossover

Some definitions:

Crossover -- SUV built on a car frame, didn't really exist until the 90's
(Traditional) SUV -- built on a truck frame such as a Suburban, Expedition, etc.
Jeep -- Kinda its own class, built on a custom frame that doesn't do either (this includes the x-tera, some others)

I would prefer an auto in almost all ways -- except -- I need the higher road clearance in New Orleans / South Louisiana. Its not uncommon I have to drive through standing water, and the roads are absolutely terrible. I can't tell you how many times I bottomed out my sedan when I owned it.

I actually drive a 4 cylinder engine which gets fairly good gas mileage.

[bluedigger]

169. As a Jeep owner, I take offense.

Jeeps are the archetype for all SUV's (sorry, Land Rover fans, you know it's true). I have no idea what they don't "do either", but Xterra's are most certainly not "Jeeps". Please don't call them cars or trucks, either. SUV is okay, but redundant.

I thought there were a ridiculous number of SUV's in New Orleans until I lived there awhile. Between the broken pavement, potholes, flooding, and semi-annual evacuations I totally get it now.

[primavera]

185. Hi, neighbor!

Always glad to meet a fellow New Orleanian.

And you're right, the potholes are killer - very tough on the bottom of the car.

[Go Vols]

144. I like

plenty of room in a vehicle.I am on my 3rd Ford Crown Victoria @ 24mpg.I like being closer to the ground,something top heavy and easy to flip isnt a good selling point for me.For hauling or snow I do have a truck,but its seldom driven.

[NYC_SKP]

146. I have no choice but to drive this rig, what with the snow and the soccer team and boat....

.

And I like "high riding" for visibility, and pulling out "flatlanders" in the snow bank in my "muy macho" "truck", and it's safer and everygthing...





My actual cars include a Prius w 115,000 miles and an old El Camino, rarely driven.





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[primavera]

150. Rotfl!

Thanks for the laugh!

[Inkfreak]

233. That dog is freakin adorable

[Adsos Letter]

283. Love the pooch! "Hey, man...we goin' for a drive or what?"

[blondie58]

156. i would love to have one, buf i am too poor!

My parents gave one, as they like the space and the visibility. My dad is very tall and overweight, so it is a good fit.

I do find them hard to see around, in my little Corolla, but I am probably just jealous!

They do scare me though, as they always win in a collisin!
lLast year, in Denver, there was a horrific crash where a woman suffered a seizure, blacked out, and Her. Expedition
landed on top of a small Ford truck, instantly killing a family of five. It was so sad.

As for the rear view mirrors, they are cool, but what I prefer are mirrors like the ones on Postal trucks. I retired last year and often think how nice it would be to have them on my car! Both front and back!

[boppers]

157. 1. Laziness.

Ask any SUV owner how many miles they travel by bicycle per year.

You are sure to get some, who take their ridiculous vehicle miles into the wilderness to ride... a bicycle.

[Ilsa]

211. Not all cities, even towns, are bike-friendly. nt

[boppers]

311. They don't have roads?

I suppose that's possible, but a mountain bike would be even *better* in such a condition...

Or perhaps, you mean "Some cities and towns are filled with people who don't know how to drive", so the problem isn't the roads, it's bad drivers?

[Ilsa]

363. It varies.

Some places are too spread out for a person to bike between home, work, grocery stores, etc. Weather affects that as well. (I'm not going to want to arrive at work sweated through my dress in 105° heat.) Country roads are usually more narrow and frequently without shoulders for a cyclist to use if a driver is rude. And if there aren't many cyclists, drivers are not as aware of the few that are out there.

I've watched the local news and there is no shortage of accidents involving bicycles, skateboards, pedestrians.

[applegrove]

167. I used to drive an SUV. It was a great ride over country roads and in the winter.

[femmocrat]

170. I love my SUV. Here are some of the reasons that I need it:

It is 4-wheel drive which I must have in the winter because of all the hills and lousy roads here.

I travel to 4 schools, so I have to haul a lot of "stuff" around with me.

We have 3 dogs and take them to shows, so they have a lot of "stuff", too!

It is great on a trip... plenty of room for luggage, cooler, etc.

We have to haul plants, bags of mulch, topsoil, etc. for gardening.

Hubby has a small business and has to haul boxes in connection with it.

I don't have a big SUV, I guess it's more medium-sized. It fits our needs. We also have a small sports/commuter car for running around in. It is more economical, but not as handy.

[Bettie]

172. We have a Honda Hyrbid sedan and an SUV

The Honda is used most of the time.

However, our SUV will hold our entire family and tow a trailer for our hobby of Rendezvous.

It also tows a trailer when we need to move horses from point a to point b and a bunch of other stuff.

We had a pickup truck before we had three kids, but now the SUV does the job better for our family.

[ErikJ]

173. Republican Vehicle-like to thumb nose at treehuggers- My mini-van has TWICE the cargo as any SUV.

And I use the cargo space quite a bit. It gets 16 street and up to 30 highway. Dodge Caravan 98 drives and looks like new. But my commute is only 5 miles and drive only 5000 a year.

[Bettie]

179. For regularly towing a trailer a min-van is not the best vehicle

So, we have an SUV for that.

We thought about a Caravan, but in the end, we made the purchase that works best for our family.

Glad your choice is working out for your family.

[Pisces]

174. Comfort and room to haul 4 kids and sports equipment or suitcases on vacation.

[bigwillq]

175. Some do it because of family size

As you mentioned with the mini van, but some might prefer an SUV. Not really my business, so I don't care what they drive.

[DCBob]

176. Why do people drive cars?

[Romulox]

177. I care as much about the environment as YOU do about unionized autoworkers.

[Bettie]

181. We made sure or new vehicle was Union made

In the U.S.

[Romulox]

182. About 80-90% of the folks posting in this thread (including the OP) didn't bother. nt

[primavera]

184. Which ones?

The unionized autoworkers working in the US for Toyota or the guys working for Ford in Mexico? It gets so hard to follow corporate nationalities these days.

[Romulox]

187. My neighbors in the UAW. (PS: Toyota has a "company" union...)

What a lame attempt at deflection.

[primavera]

190. You mean, kind of like interjecting a labor discussion into an unrelated thread?

Kind of like that? Sorry, I should have known better than to rise to your usual flame bait.

[Romulox]

191. Inconvenient Truth? Most definitely! Unrelated, my eye. Like I said, I care just about exactly as

much...

[I Love a Mystery]

220. Yeah I'm a little surprised at what I'm seeing.

I'd have guessed that people in the know would be trying to support US organized labor. Kinda disappointing!

[DainBramaged]

394. People in the know think Unions suck, yet they want us to accept their agenda

drive what they want us to drive but oh by the way they'll buy it from wherever the fuck they feel like buying it as long as they get a good deal.


Bullshit.


Those who pull this shit are never Union supporters, let alone UAW supporters.

[Son of Gob]

178. Real liberals drive these

If your car is bigger, you just don't give a shit about Earth.

[primavera]

183. Cool! Where can I get one?

But that doesn't relate to the question I posted of what people like about SUVs.

[Son of Gob]

194. You have to buy an SUV to get one

Instead of a spare tire they throw those in the back. Most people just take them out and give the SUV away to relatives they don't like or as a Secret Santa gift to a co-worker.

[Ikonoklast]

275. You just won this thread!

Tell Son of Gob what he just won, Cindy!

[Historic NY]

192. Looks like a Smart Car that got squashed

[SunsetDreams]

193. !!!

I don't know if it was your intent but OMG

[ChazII]

224. You have a great sense of humor.

Thanks for the laugh.

[mwooldri]

264. ehe :) but what if the Earth doesn't give a s! about you?

Take away the asphalt & concrete. That vehicle doesn't work well without a proper road. Or add snow & ice.

Since I am likely to encounter the absence of a road, and likely to encounter snow and ice, I'll take a Jeep over this. Or a Land Rover - not the fancy ones but the original one that a lot of people call the Defender.

But for city travel... I'll take one of those please.

[Son of Gob]

267. Not only can you drive it on snow and ice

You can use it to plow your driveway.

&feature=player_embedded

[Historic NY]

180. All I've own since 1985 its a bus, a limo, a pickup truck, my file cabinet, its take me camping...

with a ton of crap, it gets me out and bad weather, I've even slept in it, and this one gets 22 mpg on the highway not bad for full size. I even can use alternative fuels which I do from time to time. Besides it a GM and they gave me a super fantastic deal on my old one a couple years back.

[bluedigger]

195. I drive a Jeep.

For me, it's a combination of many factors that make it practical. I don't generally have a lengthy daily commute, so gas mileage is not one of my more important criteria. I do like the capability, durability, versatility, and value, though. It is one of the cheapest vehicles to insure, maintains it's resale value (mine is worth nearly what I paid for it two years and 25k miles ago), and operating costs (aside from gas) are reasonable; more so if I do the work myself.

Which also is another feature I enjoy - it is a hobby, in and of itself. I can modify it and customize it to perform better than stock, using almost exclusively American made parts (I think I threw some foreign spark plugs in it - whatever works best). So it serves as a form of recreation and as an economic multiplier several times over. I don't think the carbon footprint is all that much worse than an electric car full of expensive batteries with limited recyclability (especially when it is used to take one to the golf club and it's environmentally friendly fairways). My model also had a production run of about a dozen years with no major redesign. A lot of resources go into retooling a factory every three years.

That being said, I don't get why housewives in NJ drive Hummers, either. Here in the Four Corners there has been one for sale a couple blocks from me for months, but every other house (it seems like) has a Jeep parked out front. There's good reasons and bad to choose individual vehicles for everybody - sometimes people just make poor choices.

"Paved roads: another example of unnecessary government spending".



Oh yeah, and the dog likes to drive it, too.

[blueamy66]

242. great dog

and Jeeps are a hobby....when I was married, my hubbie got a Wrangler....he got some crap for every birthday and Valentine's Day and Christmas for at least 5 years....I was running out of crap to buy.....leather doors, a winch, big tires and rims and a lift kit, gas cans, a stereo, a lockable glove box, awesome floor mats, some bar in the front to scare off elephants ( shit, I've run out of thoughts....I was pissed when we got divorced and he sold that piece of gold

A Wrangler is NOT an SUV....it's a way of life

[bluedigger]

243. Leather doors!

I need those!

The rest of it made sense.

If you miss buying Jeep "crap" I can pm you a list of crap I need...

Cleo says thanks!

[blueamy66]

245. Well, the Jeep and the husband are gone

soooo.....

love Cleo!

[Rob H.]

347. You've already posted what I was going to. No fair!

I've only had three vehicles since I started driving 21 years ago, and the first and third are Jeeps. (I had a two-door Stratus R/T as my second vehicle, but a big tree limb fell on it during a tornado two years ago and totaled it.) I still have both Jeeps, a '91 YJ (204,000+ miles and still going strong) and a 2012 two-door JK Sport I got last November. I thought about getting a different vehicle to replace the Stratus, but after looking at resale value, insurance costs, how much I still like the old one, and the fact that it was one of the few vehicles I was interested in that I could get with a manual transmission at the trim level I wanted, I just bought another Wrangler.

Haven't done much to it in the way of mods yet, but those are coming eventually.

I should also mention that I put less than 100 miles a week on mine since I'm lucky enough to live close to where I work, and the fact that I'm hoping to move back west in the next year or so to an area that can get a lot of snow during the winter were selling points, too. I was also in three accidents in the old Wrangler--none of which were my fault, ftr--and despite the damage the Jeep sustained in the first two, everybody involved walked away with no injuries.

Really digging your Unlimited, btw. I like the earlier version like yours a lot more than the current one. (It reminds me a lot of the CJ-8, which I always liked and still do.)

[bluedigger]

348. I almost picked up a JK when I bought in 2010.

But I wasn't a fan of the minivan engine (or the front fenders ). The JKU was just too big for me so I searched for a LJ. I'm very happy with it - it has quite a bit of room when I pull the back seat out! The longer wheelbase is nice, too - really helps the ride. I expect it to hold it's value well, too, as it is still a highly sought after model. I hear the new Pentastar in the 2012's is pretty good, though.

A guy on the next block has a CJ-8 Scrambler that is really nice. He's put a lot of work into it. My first Jeep was a '85 CJ-7 I bought new. It was my ex-wife's idea.

JeepForum.com is a great site for technical info, but the Politics forum (members only) is pretty scary. Always nice to find another Liberal Jeeper!

[Rob H.]

349. Yeah, I'm liking the Pentastar

The weird thing is, the 4.0 in the '91 feels like it still has plenty of get up 'n go by comparison--of course, the old Wrangler is roughly 700 pounds lighter than the new one. I did see someone on wranglerforum.com lamenting the manual transmission Pentastar's power before I got mine, but he was complaining, "When I'm going up a steep hill at 45 mph in sixth gear I have to mash the gas pedal to the floor to get any passing power!" Sounds like a loose nut between the driver's seat and the clutch pedal to me.

Ride-wise the '12 practically a luxury car compared to the '91 (hello, leaf springs!) and it cracks me up when I read people complaining about how rough the new ones are. They wouldn't be able to take the beating the old one can dish out for more than a mile or two, that's for sure. Besides, it's a Jeep! Were they expecting it to be as cushy as a Rolls?

Thanks for the rec about JeepForum.com--I'll have to check 'em out.

[bluedigger]

351. That's pretty funny.

Whining about acceleration uphill in 6th gear.

The JK's do seem a little heavy vs. the older models - all those modern conveniences - power windows!? The Pentastar should be able to cope with it no problem, though.

It's been a long time since I drove a Jeep with leaf springs. I remember all the "death of Jeep" angst when the TJ came out, but you don't hear much of that any more. I don't mind all the neophytes that buy a Jeep for the image and then realize it has some... shortcomings, shall we say... in the comfort department. Keeps the used market reasonable and the parts supply ample!

[flamingdem]

200. The problems is irresponsible SUV drivers if you're in a sedan

you're subject to being killed by their behavior.

It's rarely the reverse.

Yet, even with that knowledge SUV drivers are in my experienc competitive
and dangerous and we can see them doing this so easily, nearly losing control
and doing things they shouldn't do - in heavy, heavy traffic.

So it's about being responsible, especially in urban areas.

That being said there are reasons to drive them, safety being one,
but endangering others is the problem.

[NotThisTime]

204. Well call me rare. 6 Cyl. Santa Fe with hitch, hit from behind by a corolla, hit me and landed at a

90 degree angle to my SUV, hitting the hitch attached to my frame first. I was sitting at a red light. Completely tore the trapezius muscle in my neck leaving me unable to move my neck in any direction for almost a month, five months later I still cannot look up.

I've driven through winter weather where I am the only vehicle not going off the road, I'm a responsible driver.

Why do I have the 6 cylinder Santa Fe? It fit a Grand concert harp, and the 6 cylinder AWD got better gas mileage than the 4 cylinder. I tried the Subaru outback but the seats were too stiff for me. Since I need to fit two people in the car with the harp that left out the Prius V

[flamingdem]

214. That sounds terrible

I hope you are able to get all necessary care. I guess it's never good to paint with broad brushes, but then again I think you get my concerns. Best to you for your recovery!

[NotThisTime]

244. Thanks, it's going to be a long road but I consider myself lucky, could have been so much worse.....

Every driver should pay attention no matter what they're driving....

[flamingdem]

350. I admire your attitude

I had an accident when young and still have neck problems turning to one side. I got kind of used to it but then found a physical therapist with a specialty in that area. Now I'm loose as a goose - staying mobile. I hope you find one of the talented ones, this one was the head of the clinic - and the clinic is recommended by a university. He was a bit clueless about areas outside of his specialty since there is such a huge amount to learn with back and neck.

[Demeter]

202. Because they think they can

I love watching them park at the grocers....it's entertainment for hours....

[LynneSin]

208. I'm sorry but please don't be judgemental and lump all SUV together

Really?

The way you sound you make it like the only SUVs on the road are Hummers, Escalades and other massive gas guzzlers.

Really?

My parents have a Dodge Durango they have owned for over 10 years. For my stepfather who has debilitating back pains that Durango makes riding in a vehicle much more tolerable. They car gets about 20MPG, which isn't bad for an SUV and they take such good care of it I wouldn't be surprised if they have the car for another 10 years. Should I berate my parents for wanting a vehicle that he can ride in with comfort?

My best friend has a RAV4 which actually gets BETTER gas mileage than my Legacy. She has kids and they have stuff like large musical instruments and beach gear and what not. I guess I should berate her for wanting a vehicle that is comfortable for her family but isn't a minivan (she got tired of driving them after having a Caravan for over 10 years).

You really need to read up on SUVs before you go lumping them all into one category.

[primavera]

215. No doubt

Sorry, when I wrote this, I'd just come from a grocery store parking lot filled with Hummers, Escalades, Denalis, and Suburbans, so those were in my mind when I sat down to post. You're quite right, not all SUVs are the same and, as many here have pointed out, the very term SUV is open to some debate.

[Incitatus]

210. Because I have a family

Of bears

[laundry_queen]

212. I'll tell you why I've been looking at them

I dislike them immensely, but I feel like I no longer have a choice. Right now I have a minivan, as I have 4 kids. It's also AWD, and where I live, AWD is nearly a necessity. I know a lot of people who don't have it, but they also get stuck in the winter quite often. So, for me, AWD is a necessity, and I looked around for a vehicle that 1-has AWD 2-seats at least 6 and 3-is not a pig on gas
The only vehicles that do all those things are SUVs. My current minivan is no longer made (Chev) otherwise I'd buy another just like it. It's perfect and is loaded, so I totally love it except for the fact that it is a lemon. So I decided that when I start working (currently in school) I will buy a reliable vehicle and there is seriously nothing else available with my requirements but SUVs. If anyone has any good suggestions, I'm willing to listen, but I think that's all anybody makes anymore.

[primavera]

216. All excellent points, thank you for sharing them

I hadn't even thought about market availability of alternatives to SUVs, but I'm sure you're right - SUVs have come to dominate the market so thoroughly, there probably aren't as many alternative choices as one once had.

[ErikJ]

227. Stop-THINK! Imagine gas tripling in price or worse-unavailable. VERY real possiblity.

Now use THAT to make your choice. Electric or pug-in hybrid only way to go.

[laundry_queen]

230. LOL, where would my kids sit?

Perhaps I'd have to pull a Mitt Romney.

If they make an electric or plug in hybrid mini-van or SUV with AWD, I'm there, dude - top on my list. So far I haven't found one. The small cars just don't fit our family.

[Silver Swan]

223. I never liked SUV's, I had the same attitude as some of the posters here.

I don't even drive. My last driver's license expired in 1971. My experience now is as a passenger.

My spouse is the driver, and we generally had sedans or coupes. We have not bought a new car in twenty years--we can only afford used cars.

Back in 2008, we traded in our old Taurus on a one-year old Mustang convertible. My spouse always wanted one, and there was no reason not to buy it. It was our only car for three years.

We are not young, and my spouse is a law abiding driver. However, many people in our far suburban/semi-rural area drive giant pick-up trucks. They seem offended by a Mustang that is not exceeding the speed limit. I felt bullied and nervous, and at least one occasion I was terrified by the behavior of a pick-up driver. I started avoiding going out at all. My spouse did nearly all our grocery shopping, because it frightened me to travel to the store with him.

Last year, we bought a second car, a Ford Explorer. The difference was amazing. I could almost ignore the other cars on the road. Except for the occasional tail-gater, I do not feel threatened by other drivers. No one cares if a gray-haired SUV driver is not speeding.

I wish everyone drove small cars. I also wish everyone kept to speed limits and did not follow too closely. But until they do, I will ride in my SUV.

[frazzled]

226. They certainly seem less popular here lately.

I've been noticing fewer SUVs than before over the last couple of years. I think a lot of people are a little embarrassed to be driving them these days, and are downsizing. (Not in space, mind you: because I don't think you get much more space in an SUV than in a sedan or hatchback ... just more height.)

Our pet peeve: all the supermarkets here have specially designated spaces for "fuel efficient" or "alternative fuel" vehicles in the parking lots. But there's always some honkin' big mother of a vehicle parked in at least one of them. My husband has these great neon-orange tickets for "SUV violation." They're real old: they're still addressed to George W. Bush at the White House! But they're a lot of fun to stick under the windshield of an SUV parked where they shouldn't really be.

To each his own: but honestly, you are pretty much on the wrong side of history, both aesthetically and environmentally, if you're driving one. (By all means, if you have one and it's still running well, please keep driving it; because it's a huge expenditure of energy to get a new car if you don't need it. But when its useful life is coming to an end, consider something less, um, beefy.)

[G_j]

250. remember all the zero interest financing after 9-11

and during America's adventures of two major wars? I suppose the ultimate denial of reality can be seen there.

[Scuba]

234. Pulling the boat, hauling the dogs and getting through the Wisconsin winters...

[IMG][/IMG]

[belcffub]

236. I drive one for a couple of reasons...

1) getting to my cabin in the spring and fall requires 4 wheel drive
2) when your house is on fire and there's a foot of snow on the ground I want to be able to help you
3) I live less the 3 miles to work and put less then 4k miles on my jeep a year... don't really care about mpg so much...

actually planning on getting rid of my Cherokee and getting a large yukon... I wish gas prices would go up... that really drives the prices down...

PS... I can park my jeep 1 try every time... I guess driving the same car for 13 years has given me good practice...

[NatBurner]

237. lol @ these 'he must be compensating' replies

i have a tahoe, and i drive it because:

it's paid for
i'm 6'5" and it's comfortable
i live in flood prone houston, and at times it's good to be high off the ground
being high off the ground, i can thousand yard stare in traffic
i like the way it looks (it's the old two door model)
i can haul whatever needs hauling when it's hauling time
safety (it's been rear-ended three times, and all i have is a slightly-wrinkled bumper)
this is america, and i can

anyway

people that need to compensate drive porsches; everybody knows that

porsche = penis extender
corvette = mid-life crisis
bmw = i'm an asshole
giant pickups = i'm short

full disclosure tho? my sister is driving the tahoe these days. i drive a benz

also, i'm just riffing here; this whole post is only about 20% serious

[SoCalDem]

240. Many reasons

People with kids have lots of stuff to haul around
Some people have large families & station wagons are no more (except for the ultra pricey ones)
People who commute like to sit high up to see ahead on freeways
People buy what they can afford, and special pricing weighs in

[raouldukelives]

248. People feel like they aren't contributing enough to climate change.

I mean, sure. The Wall St investments do cause immense and irreparable harm to all the living creatures on earth but some people need that extra jab at Mother Earth before they depart this existence.

[Swede Atlanta]

251. Just as you pointed out there are reasons why people purchase certain types of vehicles...

Mini-vans (as much as I hate them) are convenient for families (that are overpopulating the planet to its doom). Pick-up trucks CAN be necessary for people that have to haul equipment, etc.

But SUVs are really an anomaly. I often see these people, particularly women (and I am not saying that to be sexist) with their cell phone going in one ear, lipstick in another, coffee cup on the dashboard while try to turn their SUV with their pinky finger. I often ask myself, why does she have this monster, to make up for her husband or boyfriend's inadequacy?

I suggest they believe they are status symbols. In some ethnic communities driving an Escalade or a Hummer give a man a feeling he has a very large endowment.

But I don't get it. I don't have a need to impress my neighbors, others on the road.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

256. Spacious and safety in a vehicle that's not a minivan...

Typically they are bigger on the inside and unlike a minivan a proper SUV can handle a bit better in inclimate weather and/or offroad conditions. The big advantage I see is that there is more mass... more mass means less violent impact when you accidently plow through an econo-car. Sure, there is somewhat higher rollover risk (wear your seatbelts!), but seatbelts cant protect the guy in the econocar when the car crumples like an accordian becuase something 3X bigger smashes it.

[KansDem]

258. "Hummer owners view themselves as morally superior"

I don't know about SUVs in general but I remember this report from a couple of years ago--

From 2009--

A new study reveals that Hummer owners believe that they are defending 'America's frontier lifestyle' against 'anti-American critics'.

Since its inception as a civilian vehicle, the Hummer has often incited moral indignation from people who believe the car represents wastefulness, overconsumption, arrogance and everything that is wrong with America. But a new study published in the Journal of Consumer Research suggests that Hummer owners actually view themselves as possessing the moral high ground.

The findings were based upon interviews conducted on 20 U.S.-born Hummer owners, and discovered that most appealed to American myths such as the "rugged individual" and "boundless frontier" in upholding their choice to drive the infamous gas guzzlers.

The study's authors explain their conclusions in the paper: "Our analysis of the underlying American identity discourses revealed that being under siege by critics is an historically established feature of being an American. The moralistic critique of their consumption choices readily inspired Hummer owners to adopt the role of the moral protagonist who defends American national ideals."

The research was originally intended to study the sentiments expressed by the people who hold strong anti-consumption beliefs against Hummer owners, but discovered that Hummer owners share an equally strong moral indignation in the opposite direction.

--more--
http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/transportation/stories/hummer-owners-view-themselves-as-morally-superior

So one might suppose that the bigger the vehicle, the more moral the owner. Guess I'm immoral since I drive a Saturn wagon...

[primavera]

290. Thanks for posting this

As my fellow DUers have so passionately pointed out, not everyone who drives a SUV feels this way about their vehicle, but I still suspect that there are some people who do. Plainly, many of my more libertarian brethren don't have a problem with it even if a significant number of people are driving gas guzzlers without need. Personally, I'd like to find ways to reduce our carbon footprint, even if it does encroach upon some people's freedom of choice. I know, I'm a radical. What can I say, in a coastal city about to be flooded because of global climate change and rising global sea level tends to give one a different perspective on the "freedom" people have to choose to engage in behaviors harmful to others.

[Kolesar]

260. Don't discount real snow tires as a solution for winter driving

I mean real snow tires, not "mud and snow" labeled all season tires. I get 100 inches of snow on some winters, I drive through snow that is a foot high and get fine traction.

Four wheel drive is way oversold. It won't help you slow down or corner on ice like snow tires will.

[FarCenter]

270. Right, AWD only helps you go; it doesn't help you stop.

[laundry_queen]

337. Snow Tires are a MUST where I live

but AWD is for me, too. The winter before last we had a huge amount of snow. The city couldn't keep up (and I'm in Canada, we have armies of ploughs) and people would get stuck on any road that wasn't a main road. I had winter tires AND AWD and I had to use my mad driving skillz (lol) to make it to a meeting one night. I passed a dozen stuck cars, thanking my lucky stars I happened to have an AWD. Even then it was dicey. You are right, it doesn't help you stop, only go. I make sure I"m equipped. I have ABS, AWD AND winter tires and I still hate winter driving. I can't seem to get used to it even though it's 5 months out of the year.

[On the Road]

261. I Can Speak from Driving a Toyota Matrix

which is kind of between a station wagon and an SUV.



The higher seat is a big deal for driving, at least for me.

Unlike a lot of SUVs, it has a small engine and gets pretty good mileage. Cost less than $16,000 new in 2003. I have a few rental houses, and it can be used like a pickup: most stoves and refrigerators fit in the back. There is a lot of room to load things up for the dump. Plywood and drywall don't fit inside but can be put on the roof. One this one wears out, I think I'll get Matrix if they're still being made.

But i agree with the sentiment -- I can't understand the prices people pay for these heavy SUVs with bad gas mileage, especially those without the need to haul stuff.

[LanternWaste]

263. We can rationalize any convenience

We (humans) can rationalize any convenience, regardless of the long-term global expenses, as a need. Once we do that, we often call it a right. Once we see it as a right, it becomes part and parcel of our individual and communal experience-- when that happens, criticizing the thing is (incorrectly) inferred as criticizing the person.

[primavera]

293. Eloquently stated - n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

266. Los Angeles - folks driving around in Cadillac Escalades and other big fancy things alone

[FarCenter]

271. Thought that the Escalade was the preferred vehicle of real estate agents?

Since the downturn in real estate, there seem to be a lot fewer Escalades around here.

[We are Devo]

286. Tell me about it!

I'm in L.A. too. Range Rovers galore. Usually just the driver in the car. People say they can see better sitting up high. I don't get it.

[krispos42]

268. Utility

In order to get twice the mileage, you have to pick a compact car with very little room for more than 4 people and limited cargo capacity. You loose 4-wheel or all-wheel drive, the ability to haul large and bulky items like furniture or home-improvement supplies, the ability to haul up to 8 people (5 of them comfortably), options like rear-seat entertainment systems, and the ability to tow a trailer of any note.



At the dawn of the SUV craze, a minivan got about 18mpg, a sedan got about 22 mpg, and an SUV got about 16. Gas was $1.25 a gallon, so many people figured the extra $500 a year in gas was worth it for the extra convenience and capabilities.


My Dad has a 2006 Pathfinder. He's retired, so he drives about 30 miles a week. If he switched over to a sedan, he's save maybe a gallon of gas a week while losing tons of versatility. To him, it's worth paying a few extra dollar a week in gas to be able to haul building supplies to the house and home and yard waste to the dump, plus he can haul 7 people if needed.



It's not my choice; I would rather drive a compact wagon than either a sedan or an SUV. I had a Subaru Impreza sportwagon that worked quite nice... it got 28mph highway when cruising at 80mph.

[ladjf]

272. We drive an SUV because it's comfortable, gets reasonably good mileage, has lots of room for

passengers and cargo, is relatively safe, looks good and is a relatively safe vehicle which should last us for at least ten years.

[Ikonoklast]

276. Because it is difficult to tow a 4,000 lb. GVW trailer with a compact car.

Because I can't fit three fifty-five gallon drums of biodiesel in the back of a econo-box.

Because there is no room to haul two 295/75R 16 ply 22.5 Lo-Pro trailer tires in just about anything smaller, let alone for four of them.

Because I drive that vehicle less in one month than many who drive fuel-efficient smaller vehicles do in one week, therefore, in absolute terms, use far, far less gasoline and pollute far, far less than someone in a Prius with a forty-mile round-trip commute each day.

Because mine is also a legitimate business expense, and is written off as a depreciable asset, as is the fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc.

Because people in this country have the free choice to do so whether it is in their best interests or not, or whether they need a vehicle like that for business purposes.

Funny that I never see threads condemning fuel-guzzling Corvettes that seat only two and are impractical for year-round conveyance in the foul-weather states.

[primavera]

277. You can haul that kind of stuff in a SUV?

I'm impressed, I would have thought the sort of heavy hauling you're describing would have required a truck!

If you'll notice, I didn't set out to condemn anyone for their choice of vehicles, only to ascertain what the attraction of an SUV was. True, I personally wish more people drove more fuel efficient, lower emission vehicles as many people who drive gas guzzlers may not actually need them for anything more than just a status statement. Any number of SUV fans here have chosen to read into my question some criticism directed at themselves, but that wasn't actually what I asked.

[Ikonoklast]

280. I have a '96 Suburban with the two rows of back seats removed.

4000 lbs. is the max towing capacity for that year in a 2WD configuration.

I took out all the passenger seats except the front two, you'd be amazed how much stuff I can cram into that bus.

The problem is when a poster assumes that the SUV was purchased as some sort of status symbol because they happened to see a 'tiny woman' all by herself driving one day.

She also may have been going to pick up half the soccer team which would have taken two vehicles otherwise.

She may have also have a disabled child in a wheelchair, like the couple three doors down from me that has an Expedition, along three other children.

People buy what they want to buy, and not always the minimum of what they actually need to buy.

That's freedom of choice, and I'll never tell anyone else how to spend their money, whether I agree with their choices or not is immaterial.

It isn't my money, I didn't earn it.

[primavera]

285. You may be making assumptions about other people's assumptions

I've tried to bend over backwards throughout this thread to thank people for their input and respect their vehicle choices. I do not assume that everyone who drives a SUV does so to make a statement. The only assumption I made was that some - please note, not all - people who drive SUVs don't really need the bigger vehicles. I asked because I wanted to better understand what attracts people to them and I'm grateful for the responses that my fellow DUers have been willing to share.

I do part ways with you that having the money to do a thing automatically confers upon one the right to do that thing. People can and do make selfish and irresponsible decisions that adversely affect others and I do not believe that such decisions are beyond reproach on the grounds of freedom of choice or having the money to do them.

[Ikonoklast]

310. Then you admit to being a 'Nanny-Stater' who uses their sense of moral superiority to judge other's

choices in life.

Sorry, I don't agree with you one bit on this one.

You want constraints on what others can do with their money because you perceive those spending choices to be personally detrimental.

Unless what someone does with their money is illegal in this country, you have no right whatsoever to want limits put on as to how that money is spent.

You didn't earn it. It doesn't belong to you. You have no say as to how it gets spent.

Tell me what you've spent money on in the last year, and I will be able to find a connection somewhere to a deleterious effect on human society.

[primavera]

314. Well, I have no idea what a "nanny stater" is

But if you're asking whether I reserve the right to form opinions for myself, then yes, I do. Last time I checked, it was a free country.

I respect your right to disagree with me, but no, I don't believe that having money gives one the right to do things that are harmful to others. Freedom of choice only holds water insofar as there is no harm being done. As for legality, there are many things that are genuinely harmless that are nonetheless illegal and many things that are harmful that are still legal. Just ask any corporate CEO whose decisions have adversely affected millions of lives yet were nonetheless legal. I'm certain that you are right, though, that there are things that I, too, have inadvertently done with my money that were deleterious to others. The difference between us is that I want to know about and remedy any such misconduct on my part. You wish to justify them in the name of freedom of choice.

[DainBramaged]

278. Because they need the space and they worry about lack of protection in a car

it has nothing to do about making a statement, it has nothing to do about status, the SUV is the station wagon of this generation.


Period.


hos of you who have never sold a car have no idea what this is about,


THIS is a statement:

[DirkGently]

369. I've sold cars. Lots of people looking at image & status buy SUVs.

First, I don't see the poster pulling a "more green than thou" attitude with the OP as so many seem to be suggesting. It IS baffling to look around a highway full of suburban commuters headed downtown, and see what looks like a fleet of chrome-wheeled ice-cream trucks surrounding you. Watch them try to park in the lines in "compact" space, fail, but leave Gigantor there anyway.

The impression that it's kind of a head-scratcher choice for a commuter vehicle isn't off-base at all. The heart of the SUV weirdness isn't all the little Matrix-y crossovers and gas-sipping Rav-4s. It's the big Yukons and Expeditions -- remember the freaking Excursion -- rationalize that -- Jesus. But I digress. The silliest ones are the "luxury" models. Denalis, Escalades. A little chrome, some cheap leather and POW, suddenly it's $50, 60,000. And yeah, people bought them for style because it's been pounded into the American consumer consciousness somehow that minivans are for "soccer moms." Escalades are for rock stars. It got so bad I've seen soccer moms turn down more mileage, better passenger room, and lower prices to basically buy a set of giant wheels and tires they never plan on using, ever.

Vehicles are all compromises. Trucks haul stuff better and work better in rough conditions. People who don't need a truck, but buy one for the feel of it, get a vehicle that does less for them, at a higher cost. 's okay, but it is / was a pretty silly trend that thankfully is dying off a bit.

Cars are a personal choice, sure. It's not the basis to judge someone's character or feel superior. But it's a bad automotive compromise for a lot of the flatland, suburban commuters they market them to. They were a horrible evolution of the station wagon idea -- all of the drawbacks with fewer advantages.

Exotics are bad choices as commuter cars too, but I don't think they're used that way too often -- mostly because so few people can afford them. Okay, maybe in Miami. About one in five 60-yr-old men in that town has a drop-top Ferrari or a Maserati, and 23-yr-old girlfriend, near as I can tell.

So sure, SUVs aren't a crime against nature, but yeah, they're a bad compromise for a lot of people. For what it's worth, I think people are catching on and picking vehicles that actually work better. And slowly, car companies are responding. Be nice if ended up with more of the smart hatchbacks and shooting brakes they have all over Europe.

[DainBramaged]

373. Who are we to judge what people can or cant buy?

That's the point of it.



DU, if someone don't like it than no one should own it.


Rubbish.

[DirkGently]

377. The OP doesn't say that; neither did I.

It's an observation of a cultural trend that's kind of stupid. Straw manning it into a call to ban conduct is not an honest response.

Giant trucks are a dumb choice for commuters. But at some point, many consumers became convinced that the family haulers and grocery getters they needed weren't cool enough, but huge, heavy trucks designed for work they'll never do, impart a tougher image. It's a consumer manipulation fueled by the high profit margins for these dollied up farm vehicles posing as luxury cars and station wagons.

That's the point.

[DainBramaged]

378. Who are we to judge what people can or cant buy?

That is still the point in spite of your denials.


Have a green life.

[DirkGently]

379. ??? The OP says nothing about telling people what to do.

So, you've got nothing on the actual point of the OP, regarding the ludicrous ubiquity of SUVs as clunky, overpriced, inefficient commuter vehicles?

I can only assume you know the OP is right, but have some kind of need to defend SUVs by conflating a completely valid observation with some kind of wild-eyed eco-smug call for a ban.

The fact remains that many Americans were sold on giant trucks as a way to look tough going to soccer practice. Commuters who didn't need big wheels, heavy suspensions, and off-road capabilities paid more for vehicles with poorer handling dynamics, low fuel efficiency, and decreased interior room because American car companies were making a killing turning inexpensive trucks into supposed luxo-barges.

It's not necessary to debate whether driving them is some kind of eco crime, or whether some do in fact need big heavy trucks, to understand this very simple point, which is pretty much self-proven as the family SUV slowly disappears from the landscape.

[DainBramaged]

380. Meh, I made my point here long ago, go find someone else to argue with

you are the minority. The anemic sales of electric and hybrid vehicles proves it. For ten years you've all come on here and preached to us that our lifestyles are bad. Cars are my life, and to those of you who play this game, piss off.


Bullshit, go preach to someone else. We'll buy what the fuck we want, weather it's a hybrid or 700 hp Ferrari.


Have a nice life.

[DirkGently]

393. Oh. I see. The agenda here is YOURS.

No one mentioned hybrids or electrics here. The OP just points out that big SUVs are sucky commuter vehicles, which they are. No one said anything about dragging people out of their laughable chrome-gilded suburban tractors with a hemp rope and gluing their fannies into a pink Prius. Jesus.

But I know this rap. It's the contrarian "Hands off my gas guzzler, you greenie bastards" thing you see on automotive comment boards.

What's that all about, anyway? Where does it come from? Do you really think you have to fight any suggestion that horrible inefficiency isn't a good trait in an automobile, because "they're comin' for our guns ... er trucks?"

Sucky is sucky, whether it's a floaty, underpowered Prius or a floaty, overweight Escalade.

You're not capable, as an obvious automotive enthusiast, of discussing what works and doesn't regarding cars without turning it into some cliched Brock Yates screed against progress?

I think you are.

[Taverner]

279. They make you *feel* safer

Not that they actually make you safer, but you feel that way. It's psychology: I am the biggest animal in the herd. Nobody will mess with me.

[RiffRandell]

281. I drive a Ford Escape hybrid.

We love it. 32 miles per gallon city driving. I am not a minivan type of Mom, and don't cart enough kids around at the same time to need one.

[4th law of robotics]

282. Some people genuinely need them for work

and it's unfair that they're given such a bad name by the other 99.99% of SUV owners.

[primavera]

288. Sounds like it

I admit, I'm a little surprised by how many posters here find SUVs useful for work purposes. I never really thought they were that practical for hauling and towing and the like, for which activities I always assumed a truck was a better choice, but apparently I was mistaken about that.

[LeftyMom]

284. I drive my SUV because it gets better mileage than my El Camino.

The El Camino, on the other hand, has 470 hp and sounds like a lion making sweet love to a boat while strapped to a rocket.

My carbon footprint still beats yours unless you're vegan. /better liberal than you

[primavera]

291. Not following your logic

I've seen this claim made any number of times in this thread that other people being more wasteful in one or more ways validates the poster being wasteful in some other different and unrelated way. I don't get that argument. It's great that you're a vegan, I'm sure you're right that it's more environmentally friendly than eating meat and it's certainly very healthy, good for you, that's wonderful. But what does that have to do with driving a gas guzzler?

[kwassa]

294. Do you even have an argument?

All I've seen in this thread is you attempting to be morally superior because you own a Prius . Who is impressed by this?

Mostly this thread seems to be about you pissing on other people's vehicle choices, and not answering perfectly valid points others have made as to why they chose the vehicle they own. There are very valid reasons for choosing large vehicles. Large vehicles, by the simple factor of their size, get lower gas mileage. There is no escaping this point, even with hybid SUVs.

This is rhetorical bullshit. Either answer those points, or get off your high holy ecologically-sound horse.

I think you are trolling, quite honestly.

[primavera]

297. Then you're reading into my posts something that isn't there

I asked people what they liked about SUVs. People answered and I thanked them, they did not ask me questions in return. I do not have an argument. You, however, seem to. But what you imagine is not my responsibility.

[kwassa]

318. Sorry, I think my perception of you is quite accurate.

You have an SUV-sized chip on your shoulder, in my humble opinion.

[primavera]

324. Funny you should mention chips on shoulders...

... I was thinking exactly the same thing about you with your apparent need to brand people as trolls.

[flvegan]

307. LOL! Your post, #84.

Good luck with trying to turn your intent after that.

[primavera]

315. Yes, and...?

Did I in some way express an understanding of validating conspicuous consumption through claims of conspicuous consumption by others? Sorry, I must have missed that.

[kwassa]

320. troll, troll, troll.

attempting to divert the point of course.

Who is talking about validating conspicuous consumption?

Straw man.

here is your post #84, and your overt anti-SUV agenda, and I mean OVERT. This rant is not particularly coherent either.

However, I part ways with you to some extent when you say that it's no one's business what you drive so long as you drive responsibly. Absolutely it is no one's business what you drive if your driving choice harms no one. The tricky bit comes when you try to find a mutual definition of what constitutes "harm." Some people would argue that, because of their size and marginal handling, SUVs make the roads less safe for drivers of other vehicles. There are enough studies out there to suggest that may indeed be true. If you're driving a vehicle that belches out emissions, some might argue that you're contributing to poor air quality that the rest of us have to breath. If your vehicular choices contribute excessively to higher rates of respiratory diseases that the rest of us have to suffer from and pay higher insurance premiums for in order to treat, is that not also a potentially valid basis for claiming a harm being done? There is a finite quantity of oil in the world and, as we consume more and more of it, it becomes scarcer and we pay more at the gas pump for it. We undertake environmentally risky activities like drilling in deep water, producing catastrophes like the BP oil spill (and the lesser oil spills that occur around the world on approximately a weekly basis). Arguably, much of our foreign policy is motivated by our demand for cheap oil to fuel our vehicular choices, causing us to invade countries like Iraq at great expense in both money and human lives. If every person in the US drove a high fuel efficiency, low emission vehicle, we wouldn't need to do these sorts of things. I might still be able to eat Gulf seafood that isn't covered in crude oil. I might be able to travel in the Middle East without fearing for my life. I might be able to breath without the aid of an asthma inhaler. As it stands, we have to provide large quantities of cheap gas for consumers who want to drive fuel inefficient vehicles, so I don't get to do those things. One could argue that constitutes a harm. If you don't think it is, come visit us on the Gulf Coast and take a look for yourself at the grotesquely mutated seafood coming out of the Gulf since the BP oil spill and the vast dead tracts in what used to be one of the world's most fertile and diverse ecosystems. If your choices are, indeed, causing someone else a harm, even if only indirectly, do you still feel like your choices are none of their business?

[primavera]

325. Do you have anything to contribute other than insults?

I'm really making an effort to keep this civil and your belligerent mischaracterizations really aren't helping. Nevermind, this is clearly not a conversation you're prepared to approach with civility, courtesy, or anything other than your personal misinterpretations of other people's intent. Happy we have an ignore feature here at DU that will spare either of us any further aggravation.

[kwassa]

330. I have much to contribute, as do many others. You ignored it.

as you have ignored the responses from many others in this this thread.

Being civil is not engagement. You do not engage with very valid arguments that counter your view on SUVs.

You are being totally civil, and are also refusing to respond to points made in this thread that counter your own view on SUVs. Your repeated inability to engage on a true back-and-forth discussion on this issue, plus the agenda in the post I quoted, indicates that you really have no interest in true discussion on this topic.

edit to add:

I didn't finish the thought, which is:

Your refusal to engage in such a discussion indicates your greater agenda, which is to troll. Old internet stuff.

[LeftyMom]

327. Because being holier than thou about people's cars is stupid. It's doubly stupid if your choices are

more damaging.

Also, the SUV craze has come and gone. It's like complaining about disco sucking or Dungeons and Dragons making kids into Satanists or something.

[primavera]

328. Hmmm, okay, I guess I can see that

So would it be accurate to say that you don't believe we need to be concerned about vehicle emissions and their fuel consumption? Any problems associated with them are exaggerated and/or things of the past?

[flvegan]

335. The next time you address a vegan in such a way

I will make you look so excessively stupid, you will never rebound.

And I'm already 50% there.

[primavera]

341. Um, in what way?

By commending a vegan on their healthy and eco-friendly choice, or by questioning what veganism has to do with automobiles? I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be dense, I just honestly don't understand what there is to take offense at. I feel like we're having two separate conversations here.

[TeeYiYi]

296. Looks like a pump,...

...feels like a sneaker.

TYY

[flvegan]

300. Why do people drive godawful electric cars or comedic hybrids?

They want to. Desire is in the eye of the beholder. If you want to "feel" safer, have a lot of folks/stuff to tote around, tow a boat or trailer or just need big room in a vehicle, get an SUV. "Want" is a funny word. It makes folks do things that just might not be the most responsible or sound action or choose something less than the best option.

I tell you, when Debby was unleashing hell on us here in Florida, I'd been a helluva lot happier driving a 4wd Range Rover than my Mazdaspeed.

If your commentary is on what the attraction is to an SUV, well for many folks they offer a lot of adaptability. It's a do-all vehicle (when properly chosen, as some are simply dreadful) that for many probably offer a sense of security and safety, even if it's not necessarily 100% accurate.

Though frankly, if I could afford it, I'd LOVE to be driving a Bowler EXR-S or Wildcat to work every day. That would be sweet.

[DirkGently]

302. Outside of heavy towing or rough / snowy roads, it's a weird choice.

I briefly worked a second job at Carmax, where SUVs were, as everywhere, hugely popular. A few things I heard from SUV buyers:

- I'm a fireman, and I've seen what happens when a 5,000-lb vehicle hits a compact. I want my wife in an SUV

- What's the biggest, fanciest thing you have on the lot? That was my first sale ever, a schoolbus-sized Ford Excursion, to a young chemist just out of the Navy, apparently with money to burn. A single guy, in one of the largest passengers vehicles you could buy.

- We have three kids, but wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan!

- I like to be able to see over everyone in traffic

- I want an Escalade, and nothing but an Escalade. Escalades are the best (freely paraphrased, but Jesus, what the hell was ever so great about a $60,000 GMC Yukon?)

By the way, I never actually met anyone looking for a large SUV on the basis they needed to tow a horse trailer, or drive an entire Little League team or around, or climb snowy mountain roads (I'm in Florida).

Near as I could ever tell, it was a style choice. A few people might need a large vehicle like that, but as you say, SUVs are a poor compromise for a commuter vehicle. The big ones are on truck frames, with heavy suspensions and big wheels and tires, which hurts acceleration, handling, gas mileage, and interior room.

I saw a lot of families who could really use a five-door hatchback or small wagon or a minivan, but couldn't see themselves driving anything so uncool. So they ended up with a more expensive, slower, less fuel efficient vehicle with, by the way, less storage and passenger room than a lot of cars in many cases, because they were convinced only weenies drove wagons or minivans.

I think that's changing. There are a few wagons / hatchbacks / crossovers on the market that make a lot more sense for most people. We have a 42-mpg VW diesel wagon that recently carried two adults, two dogs, week's worth of luggage for two, fishing gear, snorkeling equipment, lots of camera gear, and everything that goes with a 17-foot kayak strapped to the roof. Even with all that, it pulled mid-30's on the highway on a 600-mile round trip. It's classified as a "compact" and takes up less width in the garage than the Civic Hybrid did.

[primavera]

326. Well, clearly a lot of people around here get a lot of use out of them

I started this thread because I keep seeing big, beefy SUVs around town that are in pristine condition, without a scratch or even so much as a mud splatter on them; that look like they've never been used for the kinds of purposes that a SUV was designed for. If you're not using it, what's the point? But it's good to know so many people around here at least are getting so much benefit from their vehicles.

[DirkGently]

368. They're just insisting you refine the point. It's still valid.

A lot in here from people talking about wagons like the Subarus. Technically SUVs, but hardly the behemoths you likely had in mind. They're big in snowy and steep areas because of Subaru's heavy commitment to all-wheel drive. But even those are inefficient if you don't need those capabilities. Lot of people talking about the smaller, carlike SUVs that have evolved to make more sense. A few people who need to haul heavy freight or be able to traverse rough tracks regularly.

All that is true. What's also true is that a huge number of people purchase, or have purchased large, trucklike SUVs as a style choice, which makes little practical sense. I've seen the buyers, and seen them on my commute. One person, driving to a downtown job in a parking garage, in vehicles based on designs for heavy trucks and off-road vehicles.

It's a free country, and I'm not in favor of any kind of general "my lifestyle is smarter/more responsible" judgments on anyone.

But from a purely vehicular perspective, your point remains: Big SUVs, compared to any standard car, are relatively poor commuter vehicles a lot of people buy for the looks or the theoretical image, with no intention of going offroad or hauling heavy loads.

[progressivebydesign]

303. I drive a compact, but will buy a small SUV next time.

Here is why I like SUVs... I hate being eye level with everyone else's headlights!! Sucks. When I go through puddles, I hate feeling like my car is going to float away. I have a dog, and I love garage sales, and planting things, I need more room.

I haven't decided what to buy yet.. as it'll be next year. BUT.. thinking of either a small suv with similar mileage to what I have now, OR maybe a hybrid. And you know, I was thinking of some foreign models, but have been so inspired by the auto industry in America.. one of the last bastions of union workers left in the private sector, and I'm thinking of buying American this time! Why not walk the talk?

Having said that I do NOT get the big giant SUVs that choke my town.. you know the tiny woman with one child, who drives a Lincoln Navigator that is NEVER used for anything but a trip to the store. Hate those.. lots of hummers here, too.

[Iggy]

308. They're the Bullies of the Road

what is particularly annoying is seeing/waiting around while a 100 pound woman attempts
to park a giant SUV (no passengers, just her). even with power steering, she cannot handle
the vehicle. she may as well be driving an 18 wheeler.

it's the "I'm bigger n' you, so get outta my way!!" on the highway.

it's weak.

[B Calm]

333. Looking out the windshield of my Freightliner even SUV's look small

[boppers]

339. Size queen!

(If you don't get the joke, see a gay bar.)

[MissMillie]

309. I have a VERY small SUV

It's a 4 cylinder, 2.0 liter engine. I got it for 2 reasons...

1. For my work (realtor) I have to bring signs to houses and they don't always fit in the trunk or the back seat.

2. I like being high up when I drive.

My vehicle gets 27 mpg highway. It has no power and cannot get out of its own way. It does what I need it to do for the best mileage I can get and for the comfort (being high up) when I drive. It's not a guzzler. It has no power. It gets me and my signs from point A to point B. And I'm pretty sure the engine is going to go 200K for me.

That's it.

[guardian]

316. One word: versatility

SUVs have the flexibility to do a lot of things reasonably well. You can carry a lot of people comfortably. You can tow trailers and boats. They are good in bad weather. You can haul large items like a stove or a chair and close the back, or a bunch of luggage and tents sleeping bags and coolers. They are comfortable on long drives. Even stock SUVs can get you off road better than a car if you like to hike or camp. The extra visibility of sitting up high is nice. Safety...according to a friend of mine who was hit head on by a drunk driver in a compact car. He walked away from his totaled Suburban. The other driver was dead.

No single vehicle fits everyone's needs or lifestyle. But a SUV gives a lot of flexibility for different situations...even if you only need that flexibility occasionally.

[LadyHawkAZ]

319. I drove a GMC Jimmy for awhile

I had a very bad highway accident years ago (car slid under an 18 wheeler on a rainy freeway) and for a long time I was terrified of heavy traffic. Especially big rigs. I bought the SUV because it was bigger and higher off the ground, and I felt safer and more comfortable in it.

I've gotten over it.

[Broken_Hero]

321. I drive a Suburban

and purposefully sought it out, predominately because it can sit 9 people, and still have enough cargo room. I also sought it out because of its 4wd, and towing capability. I like the 4wd capability because of the snow/ice(mainly ice in SW MO), and because how treacherous our roads get when it rains hard, and of course being able to deal with low water bridges(I gauge those low water bridges with a lot of respect), and of course the towing capability when I have to go out and start my getting my wood supply up for the winter, or on the occasion to tow other family members back home when their car/truck breaks down.

One of the main uses I get out of it is the carrying capacity, instead of taking three cars to the lake/river, we take one, and we still have enough space for coolers/fishing gear and what not. I had a Ford Windstar, and although it can hold roughly 6 people comfortably, the cargo room was non-existent, and in general I have lots of bad things to say about Windstars....

[Historic NY]

329. Well I wanted one of these....SUV's.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=894919

[DainBramaged]

340. Threads like this have been showing up on DU since 2001

Allways the same wonderment, always the same outrage, always the same faux expertise condemning modes of transportation the OP doesn't approve of.



You don't speak for the rest of us, speak for yourself and get out of the preaching business.

[primavera]

342. It's called "caring"

I know it's an unfamiliar concept for many libertarians, but some of us are concerned about collective problems like global climate change and would like to identify ways in which we, as ordinary citizens, can address them.

[DainBramaged]

343. I'm not a FUCKING Libertarian, meh, nice try pal.

assumption makes a complete ass of you.



Every time you buy a bottle of water, you hurt the planet. Every time you use a plastic shopping bag, you hurt the planet. Every scarp of paper or cardboard you fail to recycle hurts the planet. Every drop of pesticide you use hurts the planet. When you can honestly say you do as I do to prevent hurting the environment maybe I'll listen, but driving a Prius doesn't give anyone green cred, maybe greenwash, but not cred. Your sad little thread pointing the finger at SUVs is pathetic. The problem isn't SUVs, the problem is everything powered by petroleum.


Meh

[primavera]

344. Nice try

I don't buy bottled water. I recycle every piece of paper and plastic that I encounter. I practice green gardening. I compost. I turn off lights and turn down the heat and air conditioning to the point that my wife is about ready to divorce me so that we won't consume any more energy than is absolutely necessary. I walk or cycle so that I don't have to drive my fuel consuming Prius more than is necessary. I'm nonetheless certain that I've overlooked important stuff and still do things that harm the environment and I want to know about them so that I can fix those too as best as I am able. I am by no means perfect, but I'm doing my humble best as best as I know how and I am eager to do more. What I do not do is pretend that wastefulness on the part of others justifies being wasteful myself.

You say that pointing the finger at gas guzzlers is "pathetic." Fine, I'm listening. Are you saying that aren't people who drive gas guzzlers and have no need for them? Are you suggesting that global climate change is a myth? Are you claiming that vehicle emissions do not contribute to global climate change? That our consumption of fossil fuels does not drive oil and gas companies to engage in risky drilling practices that result in things like oil spills and other environmentally harmful disasters? Are you asserting that we as consumers have no duty to try to find ways to minimize our contribution to a global problem, that it's somebody else's problem, that, as another poster professed, as long as an activity is legal, we have no responsibility? What? Where is the flaw in my thinking? I keep hearing people say that it's no one's business whether they drive a gas guzzler or not. What I have not heard is a persuasive argument why those of us who are concerned about the environment don't have a valid point in being concerned about gas guzzlers. Absolutely you are 100% correct that we do many other things that are environmentally harmful and we rely to far too great an extent upon petroleum-based plastics. And in any thread you care to start about the evils of plastic, you will find me in the front row cheering you on. That doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement in the vehicles we drive.

[DainBramaged]

345. Enough people have already made you look foolish in this thread. Your 'concern' is touching.

You made my point for me.


Goodbye.

[primavera]

346. In other words...

... you have no more argument to offer in support of your contention that we need not be concerned about gas guzzlers than any of the others whom you claim have made me look foolish. Yes, well, that was certainly very helpful of you. Do me one favor, Dain: please take note of the fact that I tried to have a civil conversation with you and to understand your point of view and it was you who refused to do so.

You have a lovely day.

[guardian]

381. talk about 'holier than thou'

"I don't buy bottled water. I recycle every piece of paper and plastic that I encounter. I practice green gardening. I compost. I turn off lights and turn down the heat and air conditioning to the point that my wife is about ready to divorce me so that we won't consume any more energy than is absolutely necessary. I walk or cycle so that I don't have to drive my fuel consuming Prius more than is necessary. I'm nonetheless certain that I've overlooked important stuff and still do things that harm the environment and I want to know about them so that I can fix those too as best as I am able."

I'm surprised you deign to come down off your cross long enough to type on your computer.

[primavera]

386. There's no pleasing you guys, is there?

First you demand to know what eco-friendly practices I follow and, if I don't, I'm a hypocrite for being concerned about the environment. When I do, you blast me as "holier than thou" because I try to be environmentally friendly. So, basically, no matter what I say, you'll find some basis for criticizing me for being concerned about the environment. I guess the only thing that would please you guys is if I joined you in the "I don't give a shit" crowd and bought myself a Hummer, huh?

[REP]

356. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining

Just own it and call it what it is - self-righteous shit-stirring.

Now, please tell me about your heating/cooling system, your water heater, what type of lights you use and how many children you have so I can sneer at you for having such wasteful things (which I do not, of course).

[primavera]

357. Well, you can check post 344

No kids, but I'm sure that won't prevent you from sneering anyway.

[REP]

359. What about the rest? What - can't defend wasting resources on inefficient heating/cooling, lights?

[bluedigger]

353. Because I enjoy the finer things in life?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hummer-H2-black-WILD-2003-Custom-H2-Hummer-Black-Knight-/390437055622#ht_1028wt_734

&feature=player_embedded

[mizzuz pibb]

355. America is lousy with over-consumption.

Even the so-called eco-libruls needlessly expend energy when they could walk, bike, or take public transit. Posers, one and all.

[DainBramaged]

366. "eco-libruls"

You gone you gone.......

[fascisthunter]

358. because people can... that is all

...most who buy the large vehicles do not think of how it effects the environment, and because they can purchase a large vehicle, they will think it is their right to do so with little to no guilt.

[KatChatter]

370. Because I live in a place where

it snows over a foot fairly regular, roads can wash out, and when I need to get some place like the mountains to ski, I am going to get there. In winter I put snows on my 4WD SUV to make sure I don’t get stuck and can get first chair on the lifts.
Snow and ice may keep me from getting to work, well that is what I tell the boss, but I refuse to let it stop me from getting to the ski areas.

My SUV also easily fits me and the wife’s ski’s and other gear inside too.

Beside an SUV is much more comfortable then a car for the daily commute.

[DainBramaged]

374. You'd better get a Peeon the restof us electric and jack it up or don't go

you silly ski loving gas guzzling gear carrying DU enviro-violator you.

[KatChatter]

376. Once someone builds a hybrid or electric vehicle that

meets my needs and costs about the same as a conventional vehicle over a 15 life that is within my budget, I will get one.

I also own guns and think all liberals and progressives should too, eat meat, smoke cigarettes from time to time in public and really do not care what people think about me or how I choose to live my life but I do limit my footprint as much as possible too.

What is it the kids say...haters is going to hate

[Honeycombe8]

382. To get to the other side? (yuk yuk yuk!) nt

[octothorpe]

391. lol

[octothorpe]

390. I always thought the giant tanks sized ones were hilariously stupid, but I found the smaller ones

useful for work... Well, first I drove I a Mountaineer for my personal use for a few years. I drove that because it was given to me and I couldn't really be picky at the time. Other than moving some large items a few times, I can't think of any personal reasons why it was an ideal vehicle for me. Besides, a pickup truck probably would have been better in those situations.

I had two jobs in which they were useful though. One was as a network field tech for a communications company. Initially we had pickup trucks, but the problem was that we would have to haul large pieces of equipment that didn't handle getting wet too well. So if it was raining we couldn't just throw it in the back, and the cabs were often times too small. We also didn't need larger vans either, as that would have been overkill. So midsize SUVs fit the bill perfectly. The other job was as a RF tester. Basically we drove around with a bunch of equipment (radios, antennas, laptops, GPS systems, etc..) and tested the signal all day. An SUV was a nice compromise that offered enough space and comfortable enough ride for 10 or 12 hours of driving.

[BlueCheese]

392. Without doing any research, I think SUVs have taken over some of the minivan market share.

They're both meant to be family cars, but maybe men feel less masculine driving a minivan? Just guessing.