Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 08:32 AM Mar 2017

what do we do about blue dogs?

in part this is inspired by a thread or got heated arguments with someone who, come election time, would still be considered a comrade in arms. However this person defends the blue dogs that sided with Neil Gorsuch. Time and time again, there is a debate about whether or not the primary people who do stab the party in the back, or to work with them because admittedly they are in a red state where the Republican Party usually has some psychopath to the right of Adolf Hitler ready to run. Because I'm angry at the blue dogs, I usually get labeled as simplistic.

The problem is while we understand that Red America is not democratic, there are some battles that we really could use the support of the blue dogs on, ones that do go ahead and change the way the country works. It's one thing for a certain senator from West Virginia to always cheer for coal mining. Despite the number of black lungs his voters cough up, West Virginia has decided they want coal. Okay, some of us do not have to like that, and if global warming kicks in, some of us will go ahead and point the folks in West Virginia and say" you know it wasn't worth it in the end" but, we can at least see that we can disagree on that for now and try to work on it in a Democratic administration. This Supreme Court justice is long term damage, let me say it again, the damage was done to our constitutional process when the Republicans deliberately try to prevent Pres. Obama from doing his constitutional duty. It was his duty, not just the right. Even if whoever the opposition party picks turned out to be a pink unicorn with a sparkly halo, the damage to the very Constitution of our country has been done. It's one thing to go ahead and debate coal mining, it is another to make the Constitution worthless. That is above and beyond any election.

Now, it certainly does not help the matter that this person that is picked is someone who has been to the right of the current court. this very week, the Supreme Court ruled against him because he felt that disabled students needed barely above the minimum.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/us/politics/gorsuch-education.html?_r=0
http://www.salon.com/2017/03/22/supreme-court-unanimously-overruled-neil-gorsuchs-strict-interpretation-of-a-law-while-he-testified-at-his-scotus-confirmation-hearing/

Now please note the people who made this ruling against him: Clarence Thomas, John Roberts, Samuel Alito, we are talking about a unanimous rejection, or even the people who were part of the Scalia Vanguard thought this man was to far to the right. Let's also not forget this is the man responsible for the Hobby lobby decision, which gave employers the right to deny birth control on religious grounds. He is a young man, and he is set to go ahead and affect the Supreme Court potentially for decades. Let's put this in on his terms: today's teenage girls will have to deal with this man well into their silver years, and they will be the ones who get hit with the consequences of an abortion ban.

Of course, trying to primary a blue dog is impossible, in part because the very blue dogs often conspire with her GOP friends so that the GOP can have a lot of slack. However, if you are going to go ahead and ask people like myself, but much more importantly, that 18-year-old young woman that is going to go ahead and spend the rest of her life dealing with everything from her body being controlled to the effects of global warming, you need to now answer a question: what mechanism do we have to make sure that on key issues we do not get stabbed in the back, that we at least get half of the mythical loaf rather than no crumbs. I gave a certain senator from West Virginia some leeway, because we can debate about coal and another administration. However, if this Supreme Court justice gets in, not only do we empower a right wing ideologue, we basically tell every Republican Congress out there that even if a Democrat gets elected in 2020, all they have to do is hold their breath and throw a temper tantrum and they will ensure that no Democratic president gets the right to pick a Supreme Court justice. That is not local politics that is the Constitution, and if we cannot defend the the Constitution, if we cannot defend the right of a Democratic president to fulfill the duties under back Constitution, which is also a nice way of saying if we tell the GOP that we can see the right to have any say in picking a Supreme Court justice, then we are worth nothing as a party.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

metroins

(2,550 posts)
1. Focus on winning seats
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 08:48 AM
Mar 2017

If I don't live in the area, I'm not going to bash somebody who votes D most of the time.

I want a filibuster of Gorsuch, but honestly I think in a normal era we should confirm him. It is not a normal era though.

As long as he doesn't get 60 on first try, I'm ok with others voting to confirm.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
2. No Democrat including Joe or Heidi voted to defund planned parenthood...
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 08:56 AM
Mar 2017

Pence had to break the tie. We need to keep Democrats in red states because twice in the last week they have voted with us in important areas...ACA and now the planned parenthood vote. How do you suppose their GOP replacement would vote? Gorsuch will get in ...probably using the nuclear option... we won't stop him...so making red state Democrats fall on their sword for something we can't stop is foolish. I have heard that there are 41 votes to filibuster Gorsuch. I hope so. If we are going to take back the majority, we need conservadems who will vote with us most of the time.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
6. You will never get a liberal GOP in WVA...all the divisive politics and primarying in
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:10 AM
Mar 2017

the world won't make that happen. When it counted, the conservadems voted with us...and that would never happen with the GOP. In 2015, Manchin had a Dem president to veto any such potential law...why fall on your sword in a red state for something that won't happen? This time was different and he voted with us...maybe we would have won the 2016 presidential election if we had not toyed with purity politics and all progressives had voted for the candidate in the election with the "D" next to her name. It was very close. I want to take back the Senate in 18 if possible ...it would shut the GOP down...and we need the conservadems to do so...in fact, we need more of them.

 

FDRsGhost

(470 posts)
14. Yeah, the same thing was said about NC and LA
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 11:30 AM
Mar 2017

when it comes to it's governors. When did you start waving a white flag and saying "never"?

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
3. Unity is only required of the left, don't you know?
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 08:57 AM
Mar 2017

Left-leaning officials, candidates and voters are supposed to line behind whatever candidate or legislation the centrists want, but Blue Dogs can vote any old way they please in order to save their electoral asses.

So sick of Manchin and Heitkamp. It's a good think Trump's health care plan never made it to the Senate, because I'm sure those two chickenshits would have voted for it. Fuck them. Gorsuch does not belong on the Supreme Court, if only because that seat was Obama's to appoint the Republican assholes decided not to have a vote.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
7. They are way better than any GOP...We will never win
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:13 AM
Mar 2017

back Congress unless we compete in red states and that means keeping our conservadems and electing more really. We won't get everything we want for sure...but we get nothing if the GOP is in control... in fact we stand to lose 100 years of liberal progress.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
13. They are not actually better than the GOP
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 10:12 AM
Mar 2017

In some ways they are worse. We lost the public option (which would have made the ACA much stronger) because of Joe Lieberman.
Manchin, sooner or later, will cost the Democrats something, if he hasn't already. They are not trustworthy on any important vote. That's my point- they cannot be trusted to ever do the right thing that doesn't involve saving their own asses. I hate and despise these people that have no principles other than self-preservation. It's bad for all of us, but it is also bad for their own voters, who are not represented by decent people who want to do right by them.

SticksnStones

(2,108 posts)
5. The dems can have up to 7 defections and still sustain a fillibuster
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:07 AM
Mar 2017

Merkely said yesterday they've got the votes for the fillibuster....and Howard Dean said the Blue Dogs voting yes are already baked into the equation.

No need for a distracting, dividing battle on this one...that's politics...play the numbers not the purity.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
9. What is the point of dividing Democrats...I often wonder when I see such attempts in various media
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:15 AM
Mar 2017

sites, do the people doing this speak Russian? Especially after yesterday's hearing.

aikoaiko

(34,172 posts)
8. A good question, but I defer to the Democrats of those states or districts.
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:13 AM
Mar 2017


If they want to risky the seat by primarying a blue dog, then I support them.

If they think the blue dog is the way to go, I support them.
 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
12. IMO, it is a waste of time to do anything.
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:28 AM
Mar 2017

Focus on winning seats.

After all Susan Collins sometimes votes against the nuts in her own party, but she still caucuses with the GrOPers and empowers them to control the Senate.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
16. We need a bigger tent. There aren't enough voters in 218 congressional districts
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 11:39 AM
Mar 2017

who agree with everything in the progressive agenda.

So, we do need to be willing to put up with Democrats who only vote with us 70-80% of the time when it counts.

In 2009-2010 Blue Dogs were our biggest problem. Those were good times.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»what do we do about blue ...