For those who despise Joe Manchin

[bathroommonkey76]

Is this really a good idea?

Link to tweet

[nikibatts]

1. Yes!

[nycbos]

2. Terrible idea.

You think you can elect a progressive in West Virginia? He is 1000% times better than a Republican.

[bathroommonkey76]

4. I agree.

Manchin is very popular there- Doubtful he'll get unseated.

[hrmjustin]

3. Manchin will never lose a primary in WV.

It is a waste of money.

[ecstatic]

5. Makes more sense to focus on states with rethug senators first

WV could be a lost cause. What about states like Georgia, etc? Is ALLOFUS headquartered in Russia?

[old guy]

6. As soon as he gets re-elected, if he gets re-elected for 6 more years, he will change parties.

[mrsv]

7. Never know...

Until you try...expose him for the republican he is

[mythology]

17. He votes with Democrats more than 75% of the time

The Republican Senator who votes most with the Democrats does so about 25% of the time. Please try again.

[JCanete]

25. Hell, I'm not happy with Democratic legislation sometimes...the Republican shit is off the chain.

Why would you ever vote for any of it? ever? 75 percent is a horrible number. It means he cannot be counted on when it matters most, like now.

[Equinox Moon]

8. It is healthy for democracy to have challengers.

It stirs up the debate of issues. I see at a good thing.

[Thrill]

9. Why not? He isn't going to win again there anyway

no matter how much Trump ass he kisses

[JI7]

10. i think these people want democrats to lose

What progressive alternative ?

In 2012 in the DEM primary about 40 percent of them voted for a prison inmate over Obama. Was it because Obama was not progressive enough ?

They either want democrats to lose or they are fucking idiots and most likely both.

[bathroommonkey76]

13. I'd say the ones who voted for the inmate over Obama were racists.

Just a guess. lol

[JI7]

14. exactly . they Aren't looking for someone progressive

[JCanete]

27. We back the wrong horses. Sometimes they win, but they are never the better option.

than an actual liberal champion. I don't accept that we can't find better more progressive candidates who can speak the right language, to run competitive campaigns in these places. We just don't, and I'm concerned about the why of it. After all, when Lieberman was on the chopping block in our party, our leadership went all the way to bat for that sack of shit, only for him to ignore the primary results and spitefully obstruct democratic legislation after the republicans signaled to their voters that Joe was okay and barely mounted a Republican challenger the race.

The question has to be asked, why the fucking fuck did our party leaders do that for him? That whole insider loyalty shit has to die, and I don't want my party propping up those who are not solidly blue when we could be fostering a place for actual progressivism in these states. But that's not what we're using the money for...we're using it to pander to the same....to look like a watered down version of the other guy. I'd be more convinced that we HAD to do it this way, if I ever saw our party concertedly, trying to do it the other way.

[JI7]

28. almost 70 percent voted for fucking Donald Trump . these people aren't looking for progressives

[JCanete]

30. replied to one of your other posts, regarding that kind of thinking. nt

[still_one]

11. I despise Joe Manchin. I also realize the political realities of West Virginia, and that it is

a good thing to have a Democratic majority in Congress

[ProudLib72]

12. Cart before horse much?

Show me a viable contender and I'll show you the money. Not before.

[BuddyCa]

15. Manchin is dying to sell out to Trump

We need to make him think whether whatever Trump gives him is worth losing his seat over.

[KittyWampus]

16. I think this is a perfect sort of topic where trolls can create havoc in the Democratic party

and online in discussion forums.

It's actually PERFECT for someone to pretend to be "progressive" and demand purity and take the ideologue's part.

It's hard to get Democrats elected in red states.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Or do some of the DU'ers posting in this thread prefer to torpedo any chance we have of getting a majority in the Senate?

[JI7]

22. i also notice many who are targeting Manchin have little or nothing to say about a Georgia

Congressional Seat which we DO have a pretty good chance of picking up .

i believe it is the seat held by Newt Gingrich and the Dem who is much more liberal than Manchin has a good chance there.

i agree that most of them are trolls. one especially is pretty obvious with the threads they have been posting.

[tammywammy]

18. I'd rather have Manchin who's votes with us like 75% of the time

Versus a republican that votes with us 0% of the time. A more progressive candidate isn't going to win in West Virginia.

[JCinNYC]

19. does anyone understand basic math anymore?

The majority party sets the rules, runs the chambers, heads up the committees, and decides which bills see the light of day.

Listen, im no big fan of Manchin but I also dont live in WV

Bottom line for me....
I dont care if we have Magilla Gorilla on our bench so long as it gets us to 51 in the senate and a majority in the house.

Then perhaps just maybe we can get real progessive bills to the floor for debate

And if we had a majority,
Perhaps we wouldnt be counting our lucky stars today that they couldnt get their act together to pass that POS healthcare bill.
Perhaps most of us wouldnt be coming down with severe anxiety disorders while we watch this shitshow for the last 70 days.
Perhaps we woudnt be watching as the house intelligence chair colludes with the WH
Yu know why? Cause a dem would be in that chair if only we had the MAJORITY

Imagine the checks put on chump to curtail his evil shit brigade right now
Every day until he left office.

Without a majority, we cant do spit but try and gum up the works

Jeez can we stop worrying about Manchin when there over 200.neanderthals to focus on?
Thats why we cant have nice things. We cant stick together for 5 freaking minutes and keep our eye on the prize (ie..The long game) without debating whos the bestest dems ever.

The only thing I fucking care about is figuring out how I dont have to see that sniveling pos Ryan as Speaker and a put a dem in his place.

If we can accomplish that by electing Atila the Hun's great great great grandchild, where can I sign up?

Always about immediate gratification. Feels good now but hurts in the long run.
You would think we might have learned something from this election.

Hang together or we shall surely hang separately

[JI7]

24. of course people understand, that's why i say those people WANT democrats to lose

[JCanete]

29. no, that's what this approach does. It makes us less effective when we do win. It makes our

promises to the American people middling and often too vague and too nuanced to be inspiring. And then these wonderful additions give us Supreme Court justices that could screw us for the coming decades on every human rights issue having to do with corporations, and even those that just erode civil rights out of pure lack of empathy.

If we want to be a majority, we have to be far more on message than this. If we want to have people in these places vote progressive, then maybe we should introduce to them what progressive is. I think that would be a start. Instead we pump money into these regions and keep those too progressive ideas out of the discourse because we don't want to scare people off...how is that working out for us? These red states have only gotten redder. Supporting Democrats who run red is not making them less red. It is reinforcing that norm.

[Kentonio]

31. Bingo.

One of the big issues with working class people turning away from politics is they think that 'politicians are all the same'. If both parties candidates are deeply conservative, then how is that not true? Show people they have a real choice, and they might just surprise you.

[JI7]

32. there is no "we" . people vote on social issues and the fact is west virginia is mostly socially

conservative.

the way some people talk about people makes them out to be brain dead fucking idiots.

[JCanete]

34. The natural state is ignorance. You have to learn from experience and the culture around you, or

at the very least, from the cognitive dissonance that occurs when you have an opportunity to see the humanity in people,and when that runs up against the norms and assumptions that are taken for granted, and when that sense of decency these people think they have starts to run up against the absurdities in the policies of their elected leaders.

Being ignorant doesn't make people idiots, it makes them poorly informed on certain issues, which unfortunately happen to have a huge impact on all of our lives, and on some lives more than others(although when you bring climate change into it, that might ultimately be the great equalizer in the end).

If we aren't even trying to present a different narrative in their districts and in their states, then yeah, people are going to continue to vote conservative.

[JI7]

36. whatever, how come non white people who live in these places vote for the more liberal candidate ?

and there was a clear difference between trump and Clinton with clinton being liberal.

[JCanete]

37. what? Because they experience a shit load of cognitive dissonance about what is decent. come on!

[JCanete]

38. btw, not talking about Clinton, talking about state-side and district side, where we need

to build up progressivism. We can't run conservative and then expect these people to go for liberals in higher office when that isn't what we're promoting in lower office, by people who are closer to them and in their face.

[JI7]

39. there is no "We" . these people are the community from which people would run

if there is someone it would come from them.not "we" or "us" .

[JCanete]

41. Some of the funds come from the DNC. Money does matter. nt

[JI7]

42. and none of that will result in them wanting someone more liberal when they supported Trump over

Clinton.

and Bush over Gore/Kerry
and McCain ROmney over Obama.

[mr_liberal]

20. These are the same people that voted for Jill Stein. nm

[OnDoutside]

26. Sorry for the added McCarthyism but could they be Russian

Operatives ?

[mr_liberal]

35. It would have to be a senator that's really negative toward Russia.

Then they might contribute. I dont think Manchin is. And I think Russia is mostly focused on the Presidency.

What is more likely is Republicans would contribute to try to get a more left wing beatable opponent.

[OnDoutside]

44. Fair point, it's just listening to some of the experts yesterday, that the Russians have been

emboldened by their success in the Presidential Election, which makes me think they are continuing to expand their "projects".

[jalan48]

21. Let the citizens of WVA decide in the primary.

[aikoaiko]

23. I'm fine with leaving this issue to W VA Democrats.

Most likely, Manchin will easily survive a challenge and he'll look better to conservatives.

But if W Va Democrats want change, then I completely support them.

[phleshdef]

33. The sad truth is, a progressive will not win in WV right now and Manchin only barely has a chance.

I grew up in the heart of coal country. Those people that Chris Hayes and Bernie Sanders did the town hall with? Thats like an hour or so from where I grew up. I know these people. I know the direction that state is going in and it is not good. There is a progressive movement in WV but its way outnumbered by Trumpsters and conservatives. I don't live there anymore but I'm still connected to some progressive groups and candidates down there and a lot of people have to wake up before you are ever going to get WV back on track. We had some good politicians in WV like Ken Hechler and to a certain extent, Robert Byrd (post racism) and Jay Rockefeller. Those days are over. Even the Democrats in the State Senate that are, in their hearts a lot more liberal than they let on, have to put on a show for coal and the anti-EPA agenda. The current governor is just a billionaire Republican who changed over to run as a Democrat because it was a better path for him to get elected.

I can't stand Joe Manchin. Honestly, if I were to be face to face with him, I'd tell him to go ahead and switch to being a Republican because thats where I think his heart is. But we don't stand any chance of holding that Senate seat with a person who will caucus with the Democratic party outside of Joe Manchin. That is the sad and unfortunate truth.

[SaschaHM]

40. They're painting being "pro-coal" as a bad thing in WV.

Might as well donate that 50k to the Republican challenger.

[FDRsGhost]

43. Yes, I do think this is a good idea

We've put governors in states like NC and LA, where everyone said it couldn't be done. It's time. Look at how Bernie spoke with the coal miners in the state during his recent town hall; he got Trumpers to admit single payer is needed. Trumpers of all people. If Bernie can do it so can other progressives.

FYI the red dot on the left is Susan Collins.

[ananda]

45. Yes!

In fact, primary all the DINOs!

[GulfCoast66]

47. Yep

And insure an even smaller minority in the Senate.

If we truely want a 50 state strategy then we have to realize that progressive is one state might be moderate in another.

If the litmus test to be a real Democrats is to be as progressive as possible then go ahead and write off 20 or so states.

[NurseJackie]

46. It's stupid. A waste of money. Politically unsophisticated angry people looking for a scape goat.

A "bernie-sanders" style very liberal challenger would likely lose the nomination... and if by some miracle the challenger won (or managed to "pull Manchin all the way to the left of center&quot then a Republican would win the seat.

[alarimer]

48. Tired of coddling Manchin and the like

Unity only applies if you are on the left; then you are expected to get with the program, while Joe Manchin can do whatever he likes in order to save his electoral ass.