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MBS

(9,688 posts)
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 07:49 AM Mar 2017

Jennifer Palmieri (WaPo article) on what to do about Russian hacking and Russia-Trump ties

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/03/24/the-clinton-campaign-warned-you-about-russia-but-nobody-listened-to-us/?

After recounting the history of the Russian hacking, etc., and their attempts to raise this as an issue during the Clinton campaign, Palmieri ends with this:

All of us — the press, Congress, the public, the administration — are still guilty of the soft complicity of low expectations. As president, Trump does and says outrageous and false things every week, from ordering arbitrary travel bans to accusing President Obama of illegal wiretapping with no evidence. The Russia charges blend in, making it all too easy to treat them as just the latest thing the president has blustered his way through. I understand how difficult it is to put the threat in the right context. We trod lightly at times during the campaign because it sounded too fantastic to be credible, too complicated to absorb. In another era, Americans would have been able to count on both Democrats and Republicans in Congress to stand up to this kind of threat. A lot of Democrats like to play the “If we were Republicans” game. I usually hate it; I don’t want to behave like the Republicans do. But it’s useful here. If Clinton had won with the help of the Russians, the Republicans would have impeachment proceedings underway for treason. No doubt. Instead, dealing with Russia falls nearly solely on Democrats’ shoulders.

But Democrats can break out of the Catch-22 of the campaign: If we make plain that what Russia has done is nothing less than an attack on our republic, the public will be with us. And the more we talk about it, the more they’ll be with us. Polls show that voters are now concerned about the Russia story and overwhelmingly support an independent, bipartisan commission to take over this investigation. Members of Congress should use every procedural tool available to force votes on such a commission. Don’t let business continue on Capitol Hill without insisting at every opportunity that our nation should resolve the Russia matter. Filibustering Neil Gorsuch is a good start. Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer is right that it would be “unseemly” to move forward with a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court by a president whose campaign is under an active FBI investigation.

Democrats should push for this relentlessly and above all else. They should talk about it in every interview. They should invoke the “big gray cloud ” that Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), the House Intelligence Committee chairman, said hangs over the Trump administration — so often that anchors sigh and roll their eyes when they say it. They should call out the Republicans in Congress who seek to distract from the substance of the Russia investigation by arguing that leaks are the real problem. Democrats should be blunt: These apologists are complicit in helping Russia undermine our democracy. So far, the GOP has seen defending Trump as being in their political interests. But now we’re at a tipping point. If those Republicans feel enough heat for helping Vladi­mir Putin attack the United States to assist Trump, they will abandon the White House and support an independent commission.


The possibility of collusion between Trump’s allies and Russian intelligence is much more serious than Watergate. It is a constitutional crisis. It represents a violation of our republic’s most sacred trust. The worst part about our lackluster collective response to Russia’s interference is that it represents exactly what the Russians were hoping to produce: apathy. Their goal, in addition to installing a president sympathetic to their views, was to undermine Americans’ belief in our democracy. For Americans to think that none of this really matters, that it’s all a game. That’s how they truly erode U.S. moral authority and strength over the long term. It’s what they have sought to do to European adversaries for many years, and now they have brought this seed of destruction here.We all have a role to play in stopping it. Each of us should be judged by how we respond at this moment when the most fundamental precept of our democracy has been violated.
38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Jennifer Palmieri (WaPo article) on what to do about Russian hacking and Russia-Trump ties (Original Post) MBS Mar 2017 OP
When can we scrutinize the media's role in this disaster? Girard442 Mar 2017 #1
The media oligarchy needs to be busted up and a truth requirement be put into effect for the news! Dustlawyer Mar 2017 #24
Also report the truth -- forget this "no opinion" stuff sharedvalues Mar 2017 #27
Bravo jodymarie aimee Mar 2017 #2
Patriotic protests ? If republicans nocalflea Mar 2017 #3
I share your frustration! n/t MBS Mar 2017 #5
we should not shy away from demonstrations. tomp Mar 2017 #18
Failure of democrats ? Republicans arebin contrl of congress. nocalflea Mar 2017 #20
democrats have failed us in many ways for years. tomp Mar 2017 #21
I agree100 percent Cosmocat Mar 2017 #4
Jan 6 WaPo article on how Republicans learned to love Putin MBS Mar 2017 #6
Cato Institute was founded as Koch Institute sharedvalues Mar 2017 #9
Conservative media has people that lie? sharedvalues Mar 2017 #11
They are for sure kindred spirits. MBS Mar 2017 #13
That excerpt leaves out the 3rd form of Republican converts to Putin/Russia. White Supremacists. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #23
Beat me to it. Ligyron Mar 2017 #31
Good point! Thanks. n/t MBS Mar 2017 #33
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Mar 2017 #7
Remember how Giuliani GWC58 Mar 2017 #8
yup. n/t MBS Mar 2017 #10
She's calling for Dems to coordinate their message sharedvalues Mar 2017 #12
Yes, please, Democrats, do it. n/t MBS Mar 2017 #14
Senate Democrats need to GWC58 Mar 2017 #15
It was a coup and we had treasonous acts against our nation. Botany Mar 2017 #16
Totally agree, and find it annoying when Dems downplay this issue Fast Walker 52 Mar 2017 #17
Demcrats in Congress can't do it alone. Lonestarblue Mar 2017 #19
Good idea roscoeroscoe Mar 2017 #34
K & R for visibility BadgerMom Mar 2017 #22
I prefer "huge, dark cloud of illegitimacy" over "big gray cloud" L. Coyote Mar 2017 #25
Exactly. paleotn Mar 2017 #29
Whatever the phrase is, Dems MUST AGREE to use the SAME ONE sharedvalues Mar 2017 #35
Disagree. People can say what the want. L. Coyote Mar 2017 #36
They can say different things if they want to weaken their message. sharedvalues Mar 2017 #37
And, they can say different things if they want to strenghten their message. L. Coyote Mar 2017 #38
K&R!! secondwind Mar 2017 #26
Sad isn't it, how Congress is not alarmed at Trump, nor is much of the MSM. nt PoliticalPie Mar 2017 #28
The real travesty, and what the Democrats need to emphasize . . . MBS Mar 2017 #30
BRAVO!! Duppers Mar 2017 #32

Girard442

(6,085 posts)
1. When can we scrutinize the media's role in this disaster?
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 07:58 AM
Mar 2017

How many suitcases of cash and death threats did it take to get the press to pile on to Hillary the way they did?

Dustlawyer

(10,497 posts)
24. The media oligarchy needs to be busted up and a truth requirement be put into effect for the news!
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:46 AM
Mar 2017

No more "It's entertainment" should be allowed. These media conglomerates are part of the corptacracy that runs our country through regular campaign donations. They wanted Trump as President, it is very clear. They gave him all of the free media and set for him the lowest bar by far! They report on tweets instead of the historic big stories generated by his corrupt, incompetent actions.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
27. Also report the truth -- forget this "no opinion" stuff
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 10:24 AM
Mar 2017

Not sure why journalists have all learned that they should just report what people say without telling us what is factual and what is not. But that kind of journalism doesn't work when some politicians are willing to blatantly lie.

Report the truth, not just others' words. Otherwise liars like Trump and Rove and Ryan exploit the media and all Americans lose.

nocalflea

(1,387 posts)
3. Patriotic protests ? If republicans
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:06 AM
Mar 2017

don't get their act together what are we left with ? Media has to ride this story and ride it hard.They are so damn easily distracted,it's infuriating. Time for them to step up. Pedal to the metal.Our democracy is at stake .Russia/Trump should be the story and only story 'til GOP relents or Trump goes.

My god , are we really going to have to take it to the streets to get a special prosecutor ?

 

tomp

(9,512 posts)
18. we should not shy away from demonstrations.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:08 AM
Mar 2017

they are our greatest weapon against tyranny of all types, including failure of democrats to do their job.

nocalflea

(1,387 posts)
20. Failure of democrats ? Republicans arebin contrl of congress.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:19 AM
Mar 2017

Only they can call for a special prosecutor or independent investigation. Could dem congressional members be more vocal , in general , yes , but their power is limited.

 

tomp

(9,512 posts)
21. democrats have failed us in many ways for years.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:26 AM
Mar 2017

at the very least democrats should be calling for demonstrations. the situation is untenable.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
6. Jan 6 WaPo article on how Republicans learned to love Putin
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:13 AM
Mar 2017
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/06/how-trump-got-his-party-to-love-russia/?
This link is also posted in the article quoted in the OP, but just to highlight some relevant passages>
Pro-Russian converts on the American right appear to take two forms. The opportunists simply want power and are willing to sacrifice principles in pursuit of it. The ideologues, meanwhile, see Russia as nothing worse than an occasional nuisance, if not a potential ally in the fight against Islamic extremism.
. . . .
Though the opportunists outnumber the ideologues, it’s the true believers who could pose the greatest damage to U.S. foreign policy over the long term. Their proposed strategic realignment with Moscow, predicated upon shared opposition to vaguely defined “Islamic terrorism,” is seductive but wrong: Far from being a potential partner in the fight against Islamic terrorism, Russia does much to stoke it.

A representative bellwether is former American Conservative Union chairman David Keene, who, writing in the Washington Times, cast doubt on the intelligence community’s assessments regarding Russian hacking and favorably quoted right-wing former Czech president Vaclav Klaus (who lost a sinecure at the libertarian Cato Institute for his pro-Putin views ) to the effect that “a nation and its leaders may be detestable without being dangerous.” (Like secretary of state nominee Rex Tillerson , Klaus has received a state prize from Putin.) “There are new monsters out there and we need to focus on the threats they pose rather than wishing for the return of those already slain,” Keene advised, sounding like a Cold War-era leftist accusing conservatives of “red-baiting.”
. . .
In an interview recorded more than 30 years ago, Russian defector Yuri Bezmenov revealed the KGB’s counterintuitive approach to recruiting. “This was my instruction: Try to get into large-circulation, established conservative media. Reach . . . cynical, egocentric people who can look into your eyes with angelic expression and tell you a lie. These are the most recruit-able people, people who lack moral principles, who are either too greedy or suffer from self-importance.” Say this for Bezmenov: He knew his mark.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
9. Cato Institute was founded as Koch Institute
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:27 AM
Mar 2017

Not libertarian. Cato advocates for tax cuts for the rich because that's what their donors want. They like to put a nice word to make it seem like they have some higher principles.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
11. Conservative media has people that lie?
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:29 AM
Mar 2017

I'm shocked right now.


More seriously I am not surprised that Russia wants to recruit conservatives in media. The authoritarian personality works well for Russia.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
13. They are for sure kindred spirits.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:33 AM
Mar 2017

from Adam Schiff's opening statement in House Intel committee hearings:

We are engaged in a new war of ideas, not communism versus capitalism, but authoritarianism versus democracy and representative government.

http://time.com/4706721/comey-hearing-adam-schiff-transcript/
 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
23. That excerpt leaves out the 3rd form of Republican converts to Putin/Russia. White Supremacists.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:46 AM
Mar 2017

And that is where Jeff Sessions probably comes in.

GWC58

(2,678 posts)
8. Remember how Giuliani
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:25 AM
Mar 2017

talked up Putin, said he was a real leader, unlike Obama? I thought it strange then. Now it makes perfect sense.

GWC58

(2,678 posts)
15. Senate Democrats need to
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:40 AM
Mar 2017

hold up this Supreme Count vacancy "till the cows come home." I'm okay with 8 justices.

Botany

(70,592 posts)
16. It was a coup and we had treasonous acts against our nation.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 08:56 AM
Mar 2017

"Earlier that week, our campaign manager, Robby Mook, was mocked for telling
CNN that the leak of stolen emails before our convention was an indication that
Russia was trying to help Trump."

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
17. Totally agree, and find it annoying when Dems downplay this issue
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:02 AM
Mar 2017

because they think Americans don't care

Lonestarblue

(10,095 posts)
19. Demcrats in Congress can't do it alone.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:12 AM
Mar 2017

Perhaps it's time for another march on Washington with the sole purpose of demanding an independent investigator and insisting that all Trump legislation and nominations stop until this matter has been settled. A heavily attended march on Washington and sister marches throughout the country (and perhaps the world) would demonstrate that the PEOPLE, if not the politicians and the money men, want an answer to whether Trump and his administration (and even the majorities in Congress) are illegitimate. Call it the March for Freedom--freedom from Russian interference, freedom from administration efforts to bury the truth, freedom from fake news that gives Trump and his minions a pass.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
25. I prefer "huge, dark cloud of illegitimacy" over "big gray cloud"
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 09:46 AM
Mar 2017

What I see as truly alarming about the Republican behavior at this point is the concerted effort, from Trump's tweets to Nunes and friends, to Fox and friends, to Wikipedia, all the way down to the lowly bots, to blame Obama and turn this scandal on its head. They are literally playing politics as the Republic burns by promulgating a new set of lies in an attempt to discredit the investigation of the election hack and of the Republican-Rosneft collusion to install Trump, to eliminate Russian sanctions, and to make billions and line their pockets. We live in a world of international corruption of governance that literally threatens our future survival. That's far more than a big gray cloud.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
35. Whatever the phrase is, Dems MUST AGREE to use the SAME ONE
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 05:32 PM
Mar 2017

That's the key to the GOP media strategy. They all say the same thing. Dems must do the same!!

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
37. They can say different things if they want to weaken their message.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 07:34 PM
Mar 2017

Repeating the same phrase ("death panel", "death tax", "job creator", "entitlement&quot is a big part of the secret of GOP media effectiveness.

See Luntz on this:
https://thinkprogress.org/luntz-warns-gop-on-occupy-wall-street-dont-say-capitalism-because-americans-think-capitalism-is-f54637f09e33#.qtp2m3680

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
38. And, they can say different things if they want to strenghten their message.
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 07:49 PM
Mar 2017

We aren't about phrases and simple-minded appeal.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
30. The real travesty, and what the Democrats need to emphasize . . .
Sun Mar 26, 2017, 10:37 AM
Mar 2017

Much of the discussion has been focused on the unprecedented nature of Russian interference in the 2016 election. Yes, it is.
But to me the worst travesty of all is another unprecedented phenomenon: the increasingly incontrovertible evidence that Americans (almost all of them Republicans) have aided and abetted these efforts and colluded with Russians in corrupting and destabilizing our democracy at the most fundamental level. Not to mention the non-stop lies and shameless corruption -- also at unprecedented levels - that seem to have operated hand-in-glove with these efforts.

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