Which state will threaten to secede first

[malaise]

Will the Feds arrest the governor for treason?

[and-justice-for-all]

1. WE should sell Texas back to Mexico anyway....nt

[malaise]

2. Just let my nephew and his daughters get out first

[RKP5637]

6. Yep, and add that $$$ against the national debt. n/t

[4th law of robotics]

230. Too bad we couldn't get out before our tax dollars went to bail out a bunch of yankee

bankers and wall street workers.

I suppose that's Texas' fault as well.

[RKP5637]

248. Many of these critters, bankers and wall street, should have been

allowed to totally crash, instead, they get propped up and rewarded. I think it extends far beyond yankees. A lot of people are at the feeding trough that are bankers and wall streeters.

[4th law of robotics]

257. If Wallstreet were in Houston

we'd be treated to a number of threads about stupid rednecks fucking up the economy and how Texas ought to be forced out.

Since it was in NYC, well many people are to blame.

That was my point.

There is some pretty blatant state-hatred here that doesn't seem to follow any rational standard other than "screw states XYZ, states ABC are cool"

[RKP5637]

258. Yep, agree. A number of states get painted with a broad brush. I live

in one of them.

[baldguy]

7. Never happen. Mexico would want us to clear the guns out first.

And I don't blame them. Would you want to buy a house full of rats & cockroaches?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Mexico don't want them either

so I guess the wall will completely surround the state.

[DearAbby]

35. Oh man, what did Mexico do to you??

That is cold, man. Real cold.

[TeamPooka]

202. lmao

that was a good one

[Mosaic]

47. I agree with you

Except I think we should just return what we have stolen. The Louisiana purchase was like buying stolen goods from a thief. Come to think of it pretty much all of it was stolen from the Natives, even the elite territory. If I was dictator, I'd dissolve the country and move us back to Europe, or wherever we came from, I'm serious.

[mythology]

70. So we'd give the country back to people who stole it from other people?

You can't unring the bell at this point. There's been way too much time, too much lost to do that. Additionally Europe couldn't sustain taking on that much additional population and what do you do with blacks? Do you send them back to Africa, bring them to Europe, let them stay here?

[Meg_Griffin_1]

83. We just need to clean up what we have at the ballot box...

Never missed a vote since I was able.

[demosincebirth]

192. if the Spaniards hadn't taken it would it still be an Aztec Empire

[NoPasaran]

100. Nobody's keeping you from leaving.

[NCTraveler]

151. If your serious, and I laughed.....

Does that mean I am laughing at you?

[DBoon]

52. why would you do that to Mexico?

Mexico deserves better

[rateyes]

62. we would have to pay mexico a helluva lot to take it off our hands.

[4th law of robotics]

64. I'm sure it's not a popular opinion here but losing Texas

would hurt the US economically in a pretty bad way.

For instance: have you used any petroleum products today either directly or indirectly? If so you should know over a quarter of them were processed in Texas.

[kentauros]

183. You're right, it isn't a popular opinion on DU, unfortunately.

I have to hold my tongue I don't know how many times due to Texas and Florida being the #1 regions to bash on Democratic Underground. However, most times that I see this shit, I don't hold back.

And then there are the various large federal government facilities, such as the Air Force training center in San Antonio, the nuclear bomb assembly facility in Amarillo, NASA-JSC in Houston, the burn-center at one of the AF hospitals in San Antonio, among other military sites. For private industries and services to the nation there's the Texas Medical Center in Houston, too many software and computer hardware companies to count in Austin and on down the "corridor" to San Antonio. Basically, our economy is second only to California's. Imagine how the loss of California would affect the nation economically.

[lonestarnot]

213. And there's Dealy Plaza and the 6th Floor Museum.

[kentauros]

215. There's also "Houston",

the first word of the human language spoken from the surface of the Moon. And your point is---?

[lonestarnot]

217. I think you got it.

[kentauros]

219. Well, if you mean that I got the point that

you are very narrow-minded about the concept of booting the Southern states out of the union, then I can state emphatically "Yes! You are indeed quite narrow-minded and ill-informed about this part of the United States of America."

[lonestarnot]

221. President Kennedy was assasinated while being driven around Dealy Plaza. I had to much confidence

in what you may or may not have understood or didn't understand. You are a piece of work. I don't claim to be a Southern expert such as you are apparently laying claim to, so there you go. And insult from a southerner... hmmmf. Is that what you are trying to demonstrate?

[kentauros]

222. No, I'm trying to demonstrate that as a fellow Liberal

I don't understand how you can be so filled with hate and callous disregard for the people of whole regions. You know, like Republicans.

It really saddens me when I see the other Liberals on this thread gleefully wishing for Texas and all the other Southern states to secede from the Nation. It's also saddens me that they don't seem to have the imagination to realize just what that would do to not only the remaining Nation's economy, but that of the world's.

By the way, Astronaut Neil Armstrong, who not only said "Houston" as part of his famous quote from the surface of our nearest celestial neighbor (Luna), was born in Ohio. So, North and South represented from the Moon. Not that the rest of the world cared about such silly distinctions. Only DUers seem so intent on noting that kind of thing, ad infinitum. And thus, this thread. Again.

[lonestarnot]

236. How did you reach the conclussion I was advocating throwing Texas out of the United States? Have

you lost your marbles? Yes I do hate republicans. Now what point do you need clarified?

[kentauros]

239. Considering that you have jumped into the same "Hate the South" meme

as the rest of the haters on this thread, I obviously incorrectly assumed that you were doing the same with regards to Texas. I apologize for that.

However, I would like your apology for insinuating that because Kennedy was assassinated in Texas, it is somehow our fault, or that we are to be forever hated because of that. If he had been assassinated in Washington, D.C., would you have then stated the same bit about whatever spot in DC that it took place and that DC was to blame for his assassination? Or would you have a little sense and realize that a place is just a place and has no bearing on anyone's death? (Not including geological disturbances of the earth.)

[4th law of robotics]

229. By a Louisianian who grew up in the Bronx

and spent much of his adult life in the USSR.

Yes. Clearly Texas is at fault here.

[man4allcats]

227. Are you saying you believe President Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald

from the 6th floor of the book depository? I only ask because if you buy into the Warren Report your overall thought processes are already suspect. You might want to begin your journey of learning, thinking critically and objectively assessing data before you post by checking out JFK And The Unspeakable - Why He Died And Why It Matters by James W. Douglass. Of course it could be that you don't necessarily buy into it but are rather only referencing a commonly held misconception. But then, why contribute to a historical falsehood by posting this tired meme?

[lonestarnot]

237. Neither. People on this thread were discussing dissolution of the U.S. and

I contributed to the conversation with the historical reminder as to the location of where one of the greatest tragedies in human history occurred. No opinion was offered as to succession or who killed President Kennedy. People like to jump to conclussions. It's human nature to assign meaning where none exists apparently.

[man4allcats]

243. It's also apparently human nature, at least for some,

to think uncritically as, for example, in region bashing here on DU.

[Avalux]

71. What about all of us good guys who live here? Will you help us relocate?

Because if you're going to make such a statement, think of the consequences and how millions of people would have their lives changed forever, and then ask yourself if you'd reach out to help them.

[kentauros]

216. The members that harp on this subject

and start threads like this appear to have one common theme to them all: divide and conquer. Thinking of the consequences of such drastic actions are as far from their minds as is the concept for Pro-lifers of caring about babies after they're born.

What's also interesting is that I have yet to see any DUer from all of these "heinous" Southern states start similar threads, bashing the northern states of either coast.

[Richard D]

74. Can we keep Austin?

[kentauros]

184. Not exclusively.

Because, like it or not (or due to ignorance of the facts) Houston is turning blue, as are most of the other large cities in the state. We (in Houston) are thoroughly purple right now, not to mention having the first ever in the nation openly lesbian mayor. Austin still doesn't have that

[Hassin Bin Sober]

102. Let Texas secede and then tell Mexico we wouldn't mind if they invaded.

[and-justice-for-all]

141. Ha! brilliant!! nt

[LynneSin]

170. Can we keep Austin and Houston?

Austin is a haven for liberals and any major US cities that can elect TWICE a lesbian mayor - they have to be keeper towns.

[kentauros]

186. Thank you, LynneSin

It's nice to see a fellow DUer not bashing my home state for once

[LynneSin]

190. Your state is just fucked because of Tom DeLay and redistricting

I honestly see no hope for it but I know good people live there!

[kentauros]

191. Actually, there is hope.

In the form of ever-increasing numbers in the Hispanic population. Once their numbers increase enough, we'll have a bigger liberal voting block and can take back the redistricting

[panader0]

205. State bashing is epidemic on DU and quite stupid.

As if everyone in the state is an idiot because we may (or in my state's case, do) have bad politicians.
I live in Arizona, and have Brewer (who took over Governor Napolitano's job when Obama tapped her for the Fed).
We also have McCain, Kyle and Arpaio. Things will change here too. McCain and Kyle are on the way out, Arpaio is 80, and Brewer is toast in her next election.
State bashing is counterproductive, Alaska, Louisiana, Florida, Texas, I've seen most every state bashed at least once here.

[kentauros]

212. I agree about it being stupid.

It constantly amazes me that fellow Liberals can be so narrow-minded and unforgiving. It's quite sad.

I hope y'all are able to turn things around in Arizona. I have at least one other friend that lives in Sedona (he's also a writer.) I'd love to visit but would likely have to keep a wet rag over my face in order to simulate the level of humidity I'm used to here That and have copper-wire gloves so I don't kill people with my static buildup!

[lonestarnot]

218. I like to bash my state, stupid or not whatever, it deserves it!

[DrDan]

226. ABSOLUTELY!

[kentauros]

185. May I have your profile information?

You know, where it is that you live, exactly? I'd like to bash that region of the country/world too. It's only fair.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. I wish mine (Mass) would!

I'm tired of being held down, both socially and economically, by red states. I'd love to secede - perhaps New England could secede and join up with Canada or join the EU.

[malaise]

5. Interesting perspective

They do contribute the least while making the most noise

[RKP5637]

11. The red states have always been in the way and creating all of the dissension in

this country and holding back progress. I wish they would all secede.

[malaise]

38. The question is why

Is it the marriage between religion and politics?

[RKP5637]

42. I think so, I really think that has a lot to do with it, especially since for eons

religion has frequently been a form of politics used to control people.

[malaise]

48. Can you be a religious zealot and believe in critical thinking

Isn't the problem dogma - my way or the highway?

[RKP5637]

50. That's the net/net of it all (I think), the "my way or the highway" dogma.

[patrice]

154. Which I think is more about ROYALTY than religion. Have you seen this yet?

I think it is interesting because it parallels some other reading I am doing:

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/01/southern_values_revived/

[RKP5637]

241. So true, thanks for the article, quite interesting!!! n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

251. Thanks. I was on the verge of hunting that one up again

for posting on this thread.

Yes of course there are sane, intelligent and thoughtful people everywhere, but there are also predominant cultural "flavors" everywhere, and it's fairly hard to deny the existence of profound regional differences in America that date back for generations. And some of those regional cultural traditions are to my mind pernicious.

Sorry, but I have never been able to buy into the post-modernist, deconstructionist, absolute cultural-relativist mindset.

[patrice]

255. Yyyeeee Hhhaaa! "... absolute _____________ relativists..." THIS!!! is the wheel upon which

whatever the American zeitgeist is is broken time and time and time again. The thing about US (not the government, not the church, not business, not ..... ) that drives OUR OWN slavery.

It's encouraging to see someone else see that!

I used to tell my high school students (who, on average, have quite a hidden penchant for "philosophy", btw): There are no absolutes and that statement is so true that it isn't even an absolute. (It's just an artifact of language, actually, but it does get them to thinking about what meaning is.)

[Jackpine Radical]

260. Wow. I wasn't even aware of that "absolute relativist" oxymoron until you spotted it.

But yeah.

[patrice]

261. I'm familiar with it from teaching highschool students.

[demwing]

94. War and Christianity

Losing the Civil War still burns the South. Much of the anti "Big Government" anger can be traced directly to folks who lived through that war. It wasn't that long ago, really. My great grandpa was born around 1860 and lived into his late 80s. While I never knew him, my dad (born in 1933) knew him well. The old guy was a solid secessionist, and was rumored to be a clansman. As my dad grew up, he was removed enough (by time) from that influence that he seemed a decent guy, but in his old age his earliest influences must have taken hold, and he's now as much a racist as his grandfather. The victory of the North over the South gave racists an excuse for their hate. They weren't racists, you see, they were freedom fighters, forced to submit to an oppressive Federal Government. It's easier to hang onto that rage, it isn't as socially impolite.

Christianity also plays into it -and most of that is focused on us through the abortion debate. Some religious followers are seriously concerned about abortion as a right to life issue, but in my opinion, most are just interested in pursuing more and more theocratic controls over our political system.

These are fights most of us thought were settled - the Civil War in 1865, and the Church/State issue when Americans wrote the Constitution, but I think we were being naive. We left creepers in the soil, and the weeds are returning.

[malaise]

123. Yes the Civil War still lives

and the fights are not settled

[Fawke Em]

142. Where?

I live in Tennessee and I never hear ANYONE discussing the Civil War, much less harboring any anger over it.

I see more discussion about how all us Southerners discuss the Civil War on this board than I do in real life.

[former9thward]

152. Don't bother with facts.

There are many who specialize in division and disruption. The OP is a good example.

[cordelia]

167. Touché

[demwing]

182. Well I live in Florida, and I see the evidence all the time

150 years later were still fighting the civil war
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/150-years-later-were-still-fighting-the-civil-war/2011/04/12/AFFLFeSD_story.html

"The key to understanding the Civil War, which began 150 years ago this week, is to realize that it’s still being fought. Indeed, it’s being fought now more intensely than at any time since the 1960s.

Then, African Americans and white Northern liberals and moderates battled Southern white segregationists and Goldwater conservatives to establish equal racial access to the ballot, housing and public facilities. Today’s battle more closely resembles the one that inaugurated the Civil War, which centered on the expansion of slavery to the lands west of the Mississippi. As in 1861, we are again divided over whether Southern or Northern labor systems, and Southern or Northern versions of government, shall become the national norm"

Why the Confederate flag is still flying high
http://thegrio.com/2011/04/25/why-the-confederate-flag-is-still-flying-high/

"...Is the Confederate flag as its defenders repeatedly claim merely a symbol of Southern history, pride and heritage, and has absolutely no political or social connotations, let alone intended as a symbol of slavery and a prop for racism? Or is it as the NAACP repeatedly maintain a blatant display of bigotry and racist defiance that symbolizes slavery and black oppression and is a direct slap in the face of blacks a century and a half after the South was vanquished on the battlefield?

The truth, as always, lay somewhere in between. For decades, the Confederate flag, or some variation of it, has either flown or been displayed or embedded in state flags in Mississippi, Georgia, North Carolina, and Alabama and in decades past in other Southern states.Thousands of motor vehicle owners have requested personalized license plates with the Sons of Confederate Veterans logo which embeds the Confederate flag in it for their cars and trucks in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee."

[JDPriestly]

180. +1000

I saw that a lot when I lived in the South.

The claim is that it isn't about race, but rather about states' rights.

That is a lie. It is about race and bigotry and having someone you can beat up on and disparage without feeling guilty -- having someone unworthy, someone less than yourself to feel superior to.

That is what states' rights really means to Southerners.

[kenfrequed]

153. There are a number of other reasons

And, though they would probably deny it, the top-down plantation style of agriculture versus the agrarian communities of the north probably did quite a bit to create an aristocracy in the south, and the subsequent deferment towards it on behalf of the rest of the people that lived there. Additionally the practice of dehumanization goes back only a generation or so there.

[malaise]

173. Good point re the plantation approach to agriculture

Thanks

[GeorgeGist]

136. They tried once.

Lincoln (R) said No.

[demosincebirth]

231. Holding back wages, for sure.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Effectively, we're propping them up year after year.

Blue states pay more than we receive, red states take more than they pay. They prevent us from having world-class health care, coherent economic policies, and from keeping our noses out of idiotic wars.

Let them exist on their own and turn into the third-world paradises they long to be. They can turn into Somalia.

[Dawson Leery]

14. Everything stated is true.

[unapatriciated]

58. There are many of us in Red States who are trying to change the status quo.

So at least give us a chance to flee before you put up the walls

btw hubby and I pay quite a bit in taxes every year in the red state of Georgia and wouldn't mind paying more for universal health care.

I do agree that we are the exception not the rule here in the South.

[MannyGoldstein]

86. Come up to New England

Winters can be nasty, but people are very civil and the economy's pretty good.

At least I feel like my state taxes are going to good use.

[unapatriciated]

130. Lived in Maine for a short time years ago it was beautiful.

But once the housing market is better and we are able to sell our house it's back home to California for me.

[Iggy]

253. I Feel for You

Since you're not getting much help from the "democratic" party

[NuttyFluffers]

91. "and now you have cholera"

i think i died and resurrected from laughter somewhere in that video!

[kentauros]

214. "Blue states pay more than we receive, red states take more than they pay."

So much for the UNITED States of America. God, I'm sick of this shit! Comparing a region against another does absolutely nothing for the Nation, other than keep people divided over a non-issue. We're all in this together, so whoever uses more than the rest is irrelevant.

Or, is your intent to copy, and/or excel beyond, the Republicans in the "divide and conquer" arena?

[Bettie]

232. Yes, the division is not good, but do you at least understand the frustration?

Texas IS a prime example of a state that in recent years elects freak show after freak show to represent them. They have a governor who openly advocates secession (and who, frankly, doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed).

And I don't think anyone honestly wants to sell Texas or whatever, it is a statement based in frustration, like the mother who wishes that she could sell her kids for five minutes of silence.

The intensity of your outrage might be out of line as well.

This from someone in Iowa, which gets bashed every time primaries/caucuses are mentioned as a state too insignificant to be bothered with....and the Midwest, or more familiarly known, the flyover states.

Every state gets bashed...it is human nature and usually not meant maliciously.

[kentauros]

238. I understand that you may know a little bit about state-bashing,

but I get the impression you haven't been around DU long enough to see what it's like for those of us "unfortunate" enough to live in (or be born in) southern states. Pay close attention and you may notice that even in positive threads there are some that hate us so much that they cannot hold themselves back in some idiotic and/or thinly-veiled attack.

My outrage is hardly out of line. I've been putting up with this either on DU or elsewhere ever since Shrub was elected pResident. Which, by the way, we as a nation of 50 states also elected him to office not only once, but twice. How many DUers continue to hate the rest of the country because of that? Or do they reserve their hate exclusively for republicans? I don't see them doing that with individual regions. Broad brushes are much easier.

Here, I have a thread for you to read from last year on DU2. It might open your eyes as to what I'm talking about with how Texas (and the South) is consistently perceived by some DUers:

Texas. And DU.

[dionysus]

25. well, that's one of the most foolish things i've seen you post, and that's saying something.

[MannyGoldstein]

84. Would you care to elaborate?

Or is it simply your gut feeling?

[dionysus]

105. if any states were to theoretically leave the union, i'd prefer it not be a

new england state or a blue state.

[MannyGoldstein]

109. Well, thanks for the complement, but

why should we have to put up with all of the insane nonsense from red states? If Bay Staters want to live in a reasonable society, why shouldn't we be able to?

Let'em have their own way, good and hard. We'll see how that works out for them.

[Brickbat]

51. As a Minnesotan, I hear you. It's crazy-making and every time I hear a red-state governor complain,

I'd be just fine with that state striking out on its own. Barring that, I want Canada to adopt us.

[Worried senior]

56. I'm in Wisconsin

wish Canada would adopt us too.

[MannyGoldstein]

90. We should create a confederation of progressive states

And let the regressive states regress to their heart's content.

[FarCenter]

60. We'd have been better off winning the War of 1812 and then letting the South secede

Canada plus the Northern half of the US would make a better country.

The South was started with the penal colonies of the Carolinas and Georgia:
- convicts from the British Isles, and
- slaves that couldn't be sold in South America or the Carribean.

Then they moved west.

[Fawke Em]

143. My great X10 grandfather helped settle this country.

I don't remember the Brownings being convict because they weren't.

They were the original settlers, too. The few who survived Jamestown.

[FarCenter]

174. Convict Labor During the Colonial Period

Title: Convicts Sent to Virginia
Source: Virginia Historical Society
More informationIn 1615, English courts began to send convicts to the colonies as a way of alleviating England's large criminal population. This practice was unpopular in the colonies and by 1697 colonial ports refused to accept convict ships. In response, Parliament passed the Transportation Act of 1718 to create a more systematic way to export convicts. Instead of relying on merchants to make arrangements on their own to ship felons to the colonies, the British government subsidized the shipment of convicts through a network of merchants, giving a contract for the service to one individual at a time. Between 1700 and 1775, approximately 52,200 convicts sailed for the colonies, more than 20,000 of them to Virginia. Most of these convicts landed and were settled along the Potomac and Rappahannock rivers. Although many were unskilled and thus put to work in agriculture, particularly tobacco production, others with skills were sold to tradesmen, shipbuilders, and iron manufacturers, and for other similar occupations. Convict laborers could be purchased for a lower price than indentured white or enslaved African laborers, and because they already existed outside society's rules, they could be more easily exploited. Nevertheless, Virginia tried repeatedly to pass laws to prevent England from sending convicts, though those laws were overturned by the Crown. At the beginning of the American Revolution (1775–1783), colonial ports virtually ceased accepting convict ships. By 1776, when the last boatload of convicts arrived on the James River, many of the convicts had served their seven-to-fourteen-year terms and returned to Great Britain, while others had become honest citizens and blended into Virginia's colonial economy.

http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Convict_Labor_During_the_Colonial_Period

Transportation was a common punishment handed out for both major and petty crimes in Britain from the seventeenth century until well into the nineteenth century. At the time it was seen as a more humane alternative to execution. Around 60,000 convicts were transported to the British colonies in North America in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. When the American Revolutionary War brought an end to that means of disposal, the British Government was forced to look elsewhere. After Captain Cook's famous voyage to the South Pacific in which he visited and claimed Australia in the name of the British Empire, he reported his findings to the government, and the British, for the first time, became aware of the existence of Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia

In doing a little research, it was surprising that many convicts were sent to Maryland and Virginia.

[Fawke Em]

211. Oh... didn't know that the whole South was VA and MD

[FarCenter]

235. Forced Emigration: Historic Remedy for British Criminal Activity

For centuries, Great Britain has attempted to resolve its criminal problem by forcibly transporting miscreants to distant parts of the realm. Most of us are aware that Australia and the surrounding Australasian islands served as dumping grounds for Britain's outcasts; however, the fact that the British previously employed North America and the Caribbean as penal colonies is less widely known. Utilizing the abundance of sources generated in England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales during the "transportation" process can help genealogists to trace their roots back to the Mother Country. Family historians have indexed and published many of these records.

From the 17th through 19th centuries, the British government transported convicted felons to many parts of the world. Some of the sentences allowed convicts to escape the death penalty; while on the other hand, criminals were often forcibly expelled from the British Isles for lesser infractions, such as repeated theft. Prior to the Revolutionary War, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia received the products of this justice system. The West Indies also served as a major destination. From the late 18th century onward, Australasia became the targeted area and today many living Australians can trace their roots back to these individuals.

The convicts usually served 7- or 14-year labor sentences and then were granted the freedom to stay in their new home, or return to their lands of nativity. Many never went back and remained in the new lands. Australians refer to convict immigrants as "assisted immigrants" and non-convict immigrants as "unassisted immigrants." A good place to begin your study on this topic is the Web site The International Centre for Convict Studies, available at http://iccs.arts.utas.edu.au/index.html.

http://www.genealogytoday.com/articles/reader.mv?ID=471

I didn't mention Georgia and the Carolinas previously, because their history as convict destinations is well known. Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, and Mississippi, as well as southern states farther west were largely populated by emigrants from the southern Atlantic seaboard.

[Marrah_G]

98. Im right there with you

[RagAss]

112. This is one of the most intelligent posts I have ever read on this forum.

It may be the shift in perspective that we need going forward. It's time we stop thinking of ourselves as the wagged tail and instead become the dog !

Kudos !

[MannyGoldstein]

124. Thanks for evening up my score

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=884682

[RKP5637]

4. Seems Texas always leads the herd for secession threats. n/t

[SharonAnn]

18. I think it would be South Carolina, just like before.

[DevonRex]

26. You and I agree. Nt

[RKP5637]

54. Yep, could be. n/t

[exboyfil]

204. It always starts in South Carolina

1832 and 1861.

I thought Sherman kicked the crap out of them to stop it from happening again. I guess the psychological impact of the beating has subsided.

[Kablooie]

8. The state of sanity has already seceded.

[freshwest]

57. Hehehe!

[malaise]

121. Profound

[quinnox]

9. Texas, Georgia, Mississippi, take your pick of any of the South

Those states are always full of right wing scumbags. Fuck the South. They never learned their lesson after getting the snot beat out of them, and never got over it either.

[rhett o rick]

43. Wow, that's pretty brutal. One might think that you are trying to stir up some

trouble. But I know you wouldnt do that, would you?

[quinnox]

46. nope

I just have a really negative view of the South, and can be colorful in how I express it.

I'm tired of the apologists for the South, as well. The South owns their fucked up history and the way they keep dragging the United States into the sewer.

[RKP5637]

53. All my life of many years the South has been F'ed up and still

fighting the civil war, and I do think they persist in working to drag the country down. I could say the same of some other areas too, but I'm staying calm.

[waronxmas]

65. Thanks for using a broad brush, but

Last edited Sat Jun 30, 2012, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Martin Luther King Jr, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and probably the majority of your personal heroes say FUCK YOU TOO and keep those enlightened non-Southern fucks like George W Bush (Connecticut), Darrell Issa, Bill O'reilly, Sarah Palin where they came from. I am so sick of willfully ignorant smart people who like to bash all of the South by associating all of us with those dumbass knuckle dragging mother fuckers while all the while ignoring their problem children. Hell, the majority of Fox News and Republican leadership are non-Southerners, so thanks for nothing the rest of the country.

Also, did it escape your attention that there are over 20 million Black people (and millions Latino, Asian, and non-knuckle dragging White folks who also would not go along with secession) living in the South? Yeah, I bet they won't be seceding and if it happens will be openly fighting those dumbass secessionists.

Anyway, to answer the thread question. If any of the Southern states were to secede, the big Four cities in the South (Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Miami) would NOT go along with it (along with a lot of the mid-sized cities) and set themselves up as autonomous city-states. In other words, the Secessionists will be setting themselves up for failure the same way they did the last time by separating from their economic engines.

If this happens, fine by me.

[malaise]

69. Good points

I particularly like your point about the big cities and the mid-sized cities.
I assume you're suggesting that the problem is rural but there must be rural pockets with progressives as well.

[waronxmas]

77. Oh no...

I don't think that this a "rural" vs "urban" fight. There are most definitely many outposts of progressivism all over the rural South (big examples are Asheville or the Serenbe experiment). In fact some of the most progressive Southerners/Americans to ever walk the Earth hail from the rural South like Jimmy Carter or Truman Capote to just name a few.

However, the Republicans do draw there power base from poor rural uneducated white populations (who are no different than urban poor uneducated groups) and from the vast wealthy exurban (almost exclusively transplants) suburbs around the modern big cities.

What I do see happening though is that if the shit does hit the fan and the State houses of Texas, Georgia, Florida etc decided to seceded, progressives and Patriots alike who want no part of secession will stream in to the big cities for protection. Thanks to massive ringed highways surrounding all the major Southern cities (like I-285 in Atlanta), it would be fairly easy to setup a defensive perimeter to protect both the loyal citizens and the huge economic interests in those cities.

In the smaller cities, if things go down, there will probably be guerrilla warfare going on against any Rebel army. People don't realize it, but things are much different in the South today than they were back in the day. I'd love to see the result of a traitor militia rolling up on a lot of these cities they abandoned during the White Flight era. Hell, I have half a mind to go out there myself to fight for my Country rather than cling to the comforts of the big city.

Thankfully though, those chest beating knuckle headed traitors are just that. They could never train, equip, or organize an army big enough to go up against the United States military thanks to their years of tireless efforts to block any discussion of Defense budget cuts (thanks for being stupid traitors!)

[malaise]

135. Nice response but let's throw this in the mix

Are they just full of talk

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002882422#post72

[malaise]

225. Thanks

well stated

[eilen]

265. Now you have to write a speculative novel based on this premise

You came up with the idea. I want to read the story.

BTW there is a book called Guns of the South in which the South wins the Civil War-- alternate history. It is interesting. Apparently some Teabagging racists (even thought there were no teabaggers at the time the novel was written) travel back in time and provide machine guns to the Confederate Army... and they have an agenda...

[Sea-Dog]

113. I agree 100% I'm sick of hearing snobby fucks

talk about others like their shit. this board is full of such pricks

non-southerner

[Fawke Em]

145. THANK YOU!

[Paladin]

162. Amen.

Enough of this regional hatred. I expect better from people who are supposed to be my political allies.

And a special shout-out and pointed "Fuck You" to the usual bunch of Texas haters. I just moved back to Texas after five miserable years in Colorado, and I'm overjoyed to be back. Oh yeah: I'm not in Austin, either. Deal with it......

[eilen]

266. S&L Crisis..... nt.

[4th law of robotics]

68. Remember when all those Southern bankers and stock brokers

caused trillions of dollars to disappear overnight causing a massive recession in the US and worldwide which more or less wiped out the middle class?

Fucking rednecks. Why did they do that?

[FarCenter]

76. How about all those "homeowners" in CA, AZ, NV, and FL that took out mortgages they couldn't afford

And in the north, a mortgage is a personal obligation and not just something secured by the house that you can walk away from.

[rufus dog]

87. I can only speak for CA

But people really were being pushed hard to buy. My house tripled in value in about eight years. Orange County paper was always pushing the meme that it was not a bubble, and the biggest correction someone might see is 20 to 25%. So people looking to get into the market or to move up were seeing others make a perceived killing, got nervous and jumped right in. I had to personally talk a family member out of making the jump, only due to the fact that I refused to loan money for the down payment. (I am sure the loan agent advised, take 100k out of the Dogs house, pay the dog back over a few years and it is win/win)

I finally left it at, go look at the archives from the same paper in 1989 where they were saying the same things, and any correction might be 5%. In reality that was a minor bubble that resulted in a 10 - 15% correction.

[FarCenter]

118. A lot of the pushing was by CA mortgage companies

Countrywide in Calabasas, IndyMAC in Pasadena, and Golden West in Oakland were just the largest and the most innovative of the CA companies.

Golden West originated the pick-a-pay mortgage, an adjustable rate mortgage where for the first couple of years the debtor didn't even have to cover interest. Whatever interest was not paid was just added to the principle. Totally disastrous.

[4th law of robotics]

137. Funny how that kind of talk would be "blaming the victim"

and borderline racist *unless* it can be used to bash flyover states to defend north eastern states.

[malaise]

138. But Arizona isn't in the South n/t

[FarCenter]

176. Arizona is very much part of the GOP "Southern Strategy"

Remember Goldwater, etc.

[LanternWaste]

144. goodness... it's as if some are innocent and naive enough to actually believe that

goodness... it's as if some are innocent and naive enough to actually believe that America would be nothing but rainbows and pancakes were it not for the south. Then, eventually (one hopes) they read some books and realized how far off base their own biases have taken them.

Bless their little hearts...

[cordelia]

165. Colorful?

Juvenile and crass. Obnoxious. Small-minded.

[kentauros]

188. This is a wholly unscientific observation of mine, but

I've noticed that for those male individual members of DU that are also residents of the pacific northwest, the hate for the South is unparalleled. At the same time, the DU-women of the Pacific Northwest don't seem to hold such strong and negative emotions for the South.

Why is that? Is it due to all those sunless days and/or constant rain causing irreversible psychosis among just the men there? Or is something simpler?

Or maybe, the women up there understand compassion and forgiveness, unlike their male counterparts.

[rufus dog]

81. As someone from AZ who got out, I hope you ponder this.

Some people don't have the opportunity to get out. It could be for economic reasons, it could be they don't want to be too far away from family. Regardless there are some good people in all States. As a person who doesn't particularly care for the South generically, I partially see your point. I might have even posted Fuck Arizona in my past. What I really meant was Fuck Phoenix and Maricopa County based upon the stupid leaders, knowing full well I have family members there who will never leave and are just as disgusted with their Governor and Sheriff.

[angel823]

92. Lots of good people in Texas

Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and everywhere in between.

Don't give up on us yet. Anne Richards used to be our governor; Molly Ivins was from Texas, as is Jim Hightower.

We will turn this state blue, and I hope to see it happen in my lifetime.

Angel in Texas

[ancianita]

129. Hear hear.

[kentauros]

242. Thank you, fellow Houstonian!

I'd say we also need some help in taking the US Senate seat being vacated by Hutchison. Keeping the Senate blue is a high priority for us all. Paul Sadler needs the help, big time.

[coalition_unwilling]

164. I used to believe exactly as you do. But then yesterday I read a very eloquent post

by DUer HiPointDem:

"i'm not a southerner, but i definitely agree that americans in their youth are given the impression that slavery was an entirely southern affair -- a lie.

the biggest beneficiaries of the slave system were a small slice of the population of the south and a larger slice in the north -- as it was the north (rhode island stands out) that built and financed most of the slave ships and brokered most of the cotton (brown brothers harriman stands out).

not to mention the northern financiers with interests in slavery in the caribbean long after it was illegal in the north.

the more i've learned about the economics of the slave system, the more i realize what freaking hypocrites and liars the american ruling class are. The slave system was the basis for a great deal of their wealth -- yet ruling class history turns it into "bad southerners v. good northerners".

I'm more with michael parenti -- cui bono? Who really benefited from slavery? It wasn't southeners in general or white people in general, it was a lot of the same families who own corporate america today.

White-trash Whitey Whitebread in Cornpone Arkansas takes the rap for the sins of the ruling class, and by design."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=881823

I am now reconsidering all the South bashing I used to revel in and would encourage you to at least consider HiPointDem's point first.

[NYC_SKP]

10. Louisianna and Florida...

Governors: No Omamacare in Louisiana, Florida

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002884509

[RKP5637]

13. Kansas is in that list too. Un-American governors. n/t

[aka-chmeee]

233. Hey, I'm from Kansas! and to keep consistent with the rest of this thread,

I should become indignant and outraged about it, but hell, I can't generate any enthusiasm for defending the set of assholes running this place.

It was made clear to me during a several year stay in Texas, that I would never be one of "them"; that anyone from the north was a "Yankee". If they moved south they were a "Damned Yankee" and if they stayed, they were a "God Damned Yankee". I assured them I had no higher aspirations than to remain a damned yankee and as soon as I could arrange it, left the blighted place.

[RKP5637]

247. Kansas always amazes me. Many of the people in KS are quite nice, but

why they vote in the assholes they do is beyond me. Some have said people think they are voting for people like Dwight Eisenhower, and others have said many just automatically vote republican. Some of the republicans they are voting into office in KS are damn strange in my book.

[aka-chmeee]

252. I think it is congenital,

Generation after generation of hardcore, incurious but reliable republican votes.

[AsahinaKimi]

29. Bobby Jindal sounds like he has

Already declared himself KING of Jindal Land.

[malaise]

39. That's why I started the thread

because of their refusal to implement the law

[Fawke Em]

147. Washington State was part of the lawsuit, btw.

Last time I looked, that state was NOT below the Mason-Dixon Line.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

15. If McCrory wins the Gov race in November, North Carolina will probably...

want in on that action. At least the crazies will.

[revolution breeze]

16. Louisiana n/t

[Teamster Jeff]

17. My moneys on Kansas n/t

[patrice]

157. I was thinking that, but decided that a BORDER state is more likely, e.g. all the guns flowing thru

Arizona into Mexico = the perfect excuse to claim somekind of imminent domain thing in order to deal with "Race War" from south of the border.

[patrice]

158. posse comitatus.

[Kalidurga]

19. Put me in for Arizona

I think the heat bakes their brains at least Jan Brewer is totally toasted.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

63. Southern Arizona already has a secessionist movement.

We want to be Baha Arizona and leave Phoenix to the teabags!

[rufus dog]

82. This is somewhat workable

You then have a link from California to New Mexico. Problem is you leave Flagstaff to the crazies. Now seeing that Texas would treat the remaining Arizona like a Gov't mule, and Phoenix would would come running back to CA and the rest of the U.S. faster than a rose shriveling in the June heat, we could then offer them partial Statehood, maybe with hmmm, 3/5 voting rights.

[DevonRex]

21. South Carolina, of course. Never wanted to leave England

in the first place. Then fired on the United States and seceded. So of course they'll be first again.

[MoonRiver]

22. This time call their bluff.

Just tell them, don't let the door hit ya, and see how fast they all come whining back.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. If I were a betting person

Texas and Arizona come to mind, less obvious, WY, who already has a bill to create a NAVY and deploy a carrier... go and chuckle...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinunderhill/2012/02/28/wyoming-to-consider-buying-an-aircraft-carrier/

[XemaSab]

34. Arizona would immediately be a third-world backwater and they know it

What do they even produce there?

Copper? Beef? Pecans? Nopales?

They have no port, no factories, it's hella hot, and a HUGH percent of the economy is based on tourists and snowbirds. The only things of value that Arizona contributes are copper and coal-fired power from coal that they don't even mine there.

Don't get me wrong, I love Arizona but without us they'd be nothing.

Texas, on the other hand, might actually be able to make a go of it as an independent country.

[rhett o rick]

44. Yes but they would able to compete with China for low wage jobs. The Repukes

could start shipping jobs to AZ.

[malaise]

45. I'd say one of Texas, Arizona, Louisiana or

Florida but don't rule out the authoritarians in Michigan

[amandabeech]

140. The authoritarians are near Grand Rapids in the southwest part of the state.

They might want to secede from Michigan, and a lot of the rest of the state would say good-riddance rather than join up.

Perhaps they could join a confederate nation with Charleston as its capital.

[bluedigger]

27. Vermont.

They just aren't that into US.

[cali]

36. Nope. Not a chance.

[tsuki]

114. My vote. 7 separatists in the legislature, and

they are setting up single payer.

[XemaSab]

28. Courtesy of the SE Texas Tea Party:

[northoftheborder]

97. clever graphic

[Posteritatis]

30. Doesn't Texas threaten to secede a couple times a year? (nt)

[jmowreader]

31. Just get the list of states who sued the government over ACA, and pick one

I figure they'll secede en masse, which will destroy the Union (because it's damn hard to keep a country together when it looks like Swiss cheese) and then we'll look very much like the pre-Euro Europe--fifty little countries each with its own currency, laws, etc., ll just sitting there waiting for someone to come in and stomp the shit out of them.

[mainstreetonce]

32. How about NJ?

Christie would make a great king.

[malaise]

41. He would make a huge king

not sure about great

[coalition_unwilling]

168. New Jersey: 'Deliverance on Snow Mobiles,' to quote

Governor David Patterson imitator Fred Armisen on Saturday Night Live

[malaise]

172. ROFL

[FarCenter]

193. Snowmobiles in NJ?

Depends on where you are.

Cape May, NJ is directly east of Washington, DC and doesn't get a lot of snow. And what it gets, doesn't last long.

[coalition_unwilling]

195. It was a long-running joke about the Paterson character's

antipathy to all things 'New Jersey.' Some of the funniest political comedy on SNL in ages, if you can find clips of it. Had my wife and me rolling on the floor we were laughing so hard.

Here's a link to one clip. I don't have any audio so am not sure if this is the 'Deliverance' one:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/update-fred-as-gov-david-paterson/1191668

[southernyankeebelle]

37. Start with AK, then TX, then FL

[gordianot]

40. Let them secede just make make the response unequivocal for treason this time.

Texas would be a wonderful place to mess with first.

[silvershadow]

128. yes, with the punishment delivered Texas-style, post-haste.

[johnsolaris]

49. you sound like republicans

I live in Texas & we are just the same as anywhere else. Granted there are a lot of conservatives here, but there are a lot of liberals too. Dallas county has a Sheriff that is Hispanic & Lesbian & campaigned as such when she was elected. I have traveled this country from one end to the other & have found Conservative, Uneducated people everywhere. If we are to take back our country, we must work together & not throw insults at one another. That is exactly what the republicans want us to do, divide & conquer.

I have been to many precinct meetings & state conventions, there are times when we almost have to kidnap people to participate.
This is the problem all over the USA. Democrats are letting the Republicans take over & calling each names & blaming someone else or speculating about who will secede, does not solve the problem. It is time to quit calling each other names & get out & fight the Republican horde. It is coming to your Blue state soon.

[Jamaal510]

59. The GOP horde already is happening a little in CA;

we couldn't even get a marijuana proposition or a cigarette tax passed, and the state voted (albeit a narrow margin) in support of a proposition that bans gay marriage.

[Paka]

72. And in San Diego...

voted in a Judge who is a hard-core birther.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. I will have to quality where he comes from in San Diego

A particularly crimson red section of the county.

This is where candidates were actually asked, when we were getting out of NATO and the UN, which are part of a world government...

I had to pick my jaw from the floor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. First welcome to DU

Second... here

Gov. Rick Perry: Texas Could Secede, Leave Union

AUSTIN, Texas -- Texas Gov. Rick Perry fired up an anti-tax "tea party" Wednesday with his stance against the federal government and for states' rights as some in his U.S. flag-waving audience shouted, "Secede!"

An animated Perry told the crowd at Austin City Hall -- one of three tea parties he was attending across the state -- that officials in Washington have abandoned the country's founding principles of limited government. He said the federal government is strangling Americans with taxation, spending and debt.

Perry repeated his running theme that Texas' economy is in relatively good shape compared with other states and with the "federal budget mess." Many in the crowd held signs deriding President Barack Obama and the $786 billion federal economic stimulus package.

Perry called his supporters patriots. Later, answering news reporters' questions, Perry suggested Texans might at some point get so fed up they would want to secede from the union, though he said he sees no reason why Texas should do that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/gov-rick-perry-texas-coul_n_187490.html

He will be going against your wishes if he did such... but Perry has threatened to do this... not once, but twice.

I am sure that if any of my usual suspects decided to get that stupid, well US Code comes into play, and that is the criminal code... and somebody will face arrest, unless somehow they can keep federal marshals out.

[jaysunb]

99. Excellent (1st) post

Welcome to DU...I hope you stick around with those good common sense comments.

[Sea-Dog]

115. 1 +

[patrice]

159. Begging your pardon, seriously!

[emmadoggy]

262. I agree. Good post.

And welcome to DU!

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. A: None. B: Why? n/t

[zappaman]

116. +100 n/t

[Historic NY]

61. Thirteen states weren't enough............some

idiots got the idea to purchase land from France, Spain & Russia, then add in grabbing land from Mexico and its been nothing but trouble since.

[FarCenter]

177. It was the Manifest Destiny of America to become a transcontinental empire

This was entirely consistent with the empire building by Great Britain and France in Africa and Asia, and the Empire building of Russia in the Balkans, Siberia, and Central Asia. Empire building was what you did in the 19th century if you were a rising power.

Germany was late to the game, as was Japan and Italy, hence WWI andWWII.

Spain, Portugal, and the Netherlands were on the losing end of the game. After the WWs, anti-colonialism gradually diminished the remaining British and French Empires. The collapse of the USSR ended the Russian Empire.

The United States still exists as a 19th century imperial construction that is anomalously large and diverse compared with most other nations.

[randome]

67. Secession is one of those things Republicans know they can use to rile up the base.

But it would be their worst nightmare if enough people actually were on board for it. And they know it.

They know it's safe to bellow without being held to account for their words.

[pasto76]

73. go ahead secede. We have a lot more combat vets these days to fight another war.

My battery alone could lay waste to all but Texas single handedly. TX would require some help just because it's so big.

can you imagine some local podunk sheriff or state guys rolling up to Ft Hood and demanding access, with the intent to seize weapons systems?! Ha, that would regret that in about .002 seconds.

[Sea-Dog]

111. you sound like you don't have a home of your own

[LiberalLoner]

78. Maybe my home state of Montana, but

The rest of the nation probably wouldn't even notice, because....well, it's Montana and half of America thinks we already are part of Canada anyhow.

[cordelia]

80. None

[Canuckistanian]

85. Rhode Island

Never trust the quiet ones.

[lunasun]

95. Rhode Island was the first of the 13 original colonies to declare independence from British rule

so they have some experience of sorts

[Pretorius]

88. And what would this state do for currency?

I have always wondered what these people who scream "SECEDE!" expect to happen to that FEDERAL currency in their wallets and bank accounts? I mean, would you money now be worthless and considered foreign currency? How would this state, say Texas, set up its own currency? What would these "Perry Bucks" be based upon? And what would the exchange rate be for these "Perry Bucks" against US Currency?

[Sea-Dog]

108. is the dollar a tradeable currency?

[rufus dog]

89. Interesting - One general underlying them in a lot of responses come from Blue Staters

They are getting pissed at paying extra taxes to cover the Red States.

If something happens I really believe that will be the spark. A bit of a revolt from the Blue States at the higher commitment to the Country that is received with disdain from those receiving.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. I believe you have a good point

mind you, some of us are basing our answers on actual well, actions from actual governors, such as Perry saying I am leaving, Brewer threatening and well, WY wanting a NAVY... a land locked state wants an aircraft carrier and a militia..

The last one... reminds me of oh the Carolinas around 1858.

And yes, that be a spark... I expect it, not looking forwards to it... civil wars are NOT civil, never have been, never will be. And the people actually calling the loudest for them (Yes Gov. Perry talking to you) will be the last ones to pick up a rifle and get down right dirty with the troops.

[randome]

101. I sincerely doubt even Conservatives are naive enough to follow a doofus like Perry into battle.

He is all hat and no cattle and I believe Texans know it.

[malaise]

122. Interesting response

Lots of food for thought

[KatChatter]

132. Seeing that the Blue States have to support the Dead Wood Red States

The Blue States are the ones that should be taking succession.

If the Dems had any balls what so ever..... seeing that the Pubs want austerity then give it to em.

Step 1 pass a law simply stating that No State will receive ANY Federal Funding in excess of the total federal tax revenue paid.

Let the Red State Support themselves for once.

[kenfrequed]

163. Actually...

That wouldn't be too terrible a threat.

I mean, we would never want to carry through with it. It would be barbaric. But, perhaps as a stunt of some kind someone could put forth a bill stating that no state may recieve more money from the federal government than the federal government collects from them.

I am annoyed at the red state (whatever region they happen to be in) hypocracy about this matter but I worry about the people of those regions and the suffering they would endure if cut off.

[KatChatter]

224. Speak for yourself

I and I am sure there are plenty of others too who who have no problem seeing it through and no it would not be barbaric at all.

[arely staircase]

93. Arizona nt

[Odin2005]

103. South Carolina, just like the last time.

[GoCubsGo]

120. Naw. Our governor is too busy fighting ethics charges.

And, the GOP-run state legislature is too busy trying to take out the governor on ethics charges.

[Sea-Dog]

104. Hawaii

[Inkfreak]

106. The question is flawed.

No state as a whole would ever try to secede. The question should be: Which douchebag republician asshat will talk about it as if it is a viable option?

[kentauros]

194. Thank you!

Now start an OP with that same question and see if DUers will support it to the tune of 200+ posts

[Spitfire of ATJ]

107. I'm surprised the House hasn't voted on it.

Then again,...it might create jobs....

[aquart]

110. Which one doesn't need federal disaster relief?

[FarCenter]

117. The military budget is a huge subsidy to the South

Navy in San Diego, areospace in LA, Fort Huachucha in AZ, Sandia and Los Alamos in NM, Lackland and other Airbases plus General Dynamics in TX, naval shipbuilding and Huntsville in AL, Navy in Pensacola and CentCom in Tampa, Navy in Jacksonville, Navy in Newport News, nuclear bomb work in TN and TX, etc.

The south has far more military installations and military industries than the North.

[Egalitarian Thug]

119. California & Oregon the next time the republicans are let into power, They'll drag

Washington along & join Canada, who in turn will cut ties with Europe and we'll all live happily ever after...

The End

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

125. I want Canada to adopt Washington and call it Baja British Columbia.

I'd even pretend to like ice hockey and learn to end sentences with "eh".

[quinnox]

126. Add Oregon and you've got a deal

[Lizzie Poppet]

244. Why don't we just start our own modest country?

Oregon, Washington, far northern California, British Columbia...

There's a basis for a viable economy, a degree of common culture, etc.

[coalition_unwilling]

169. But will you stop your moose jokes, eh? :) - n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

127. Texas, but we used to be a Republic.

There are good people in Texas, we are not all rightwingers or bible beaters.

I have proof. I have a land grant from The Republic of Texas, signed by Anson Jones, last president of The Republic of Texas, dated 1845.

[Marooned]

131. New Hampshire perhaps

[Mopar151]

178. We need the other states to function

Our state is hugely dependent on being a tax and regulation haven for all the bordering sovereignties. Our state sells discount liquor at the toll booths at the borders (within a mile or so). Every cowpath across a border has a discount (& no bottle deposit) beer and cigarette joint. Most of Vermont's Wal-Mart stores are in NH.

[GeorgeGist]

133. Arizona.

As long as sane residents are free to escape, it might be best to let the crazies go.

[leeroysphitz]

134. Georgia. They didn't want to part of the union in the first place. n/t

[Ter]

139. It's best for the country if they go

n/t

[LanternWaste]

146. I certainly hope that

I certainly hope that those who wish to secede or wish others to secede begin actually thinking one day. However, a hope is all it will remain most likely.

[taught_me_patience]

148. Hawaii

They actually have a legit claim that the overthrow of the Queen was illegal. Otherwise... probably Kansas. There seems to be a particular brand of nutbag/ignorant population over there. Hell, the entire south could secede and I wouldn't miss them. In fact, I'm getting sick of paying for these red welfare states with my tax money.

[kentauros]

245. However, you might miss them

(or regret your wish for their secession) when the nation's economy collapsed. That would then lead to a world collapse. Think you can live through a depression far worse than the one in the 1930's?

[Buns_of_Fire]

149. I'm a traditionalist. Gotta be South Carolina.

There's still some old-moneyed folks around Atlanta who don't care for South Carolina at all.

Reason?

"They started it, but we're the ones who got burnt down!"

[no_hypocrisy]

155. + 1

It started with Fort Sumter; let it start again with ACA in SC.

[AverageJoe90]

150. If it ever happened again, my money would be on Mississippi or West Virginia.....

Or, what about Idaho? They've got a few crazies of their own too...........

[postulater]

156. FitzWalkerStan. They can leave the rest of the state to us.

[Shankapotomus]

160. The Blue states should secede

together and start a new nation. Why wait for the red states to break it off with us? Imagine never having to deal with a Republican again?

[sinkingfeeling]

161. Arizona or South Carolina, again.

[JNelson6563]

166. Rescue the Texas liberals and cut it loose.

There's a start anyhow.

[LynneSin]

171. What if Texas was split in half. There are alot of liberals in Texas

and we could give the loony parts of Texas to the rest of the fundies. They could all migrate there and leave the rest of us alone!

[JNelson6563]

175. Works for me!

I know there are a lot of liberals in Texas, carving out some of the state to remain with the US is an excellent idea!

Julie

[johnsolaris]

181. texas is like rest of country

Hi,

Texas is not different from the rest of the country when it come to demographics. The major cities consistently vote & are more liberal than the rural areas. Dallas, Houston, Austin & El Paso vote more Democratic than the rural communities. This is mainly the case in the rest of the country, even in the Bluest states. The cities are better educated & more affluent & produce more liberal people.
If you look at a Map of the last election, President Obama won on the strength of the City vote. This was also the case with President Clinton. Any talk of secession is silly, unless the cites become City states.

[JNelson6563]

250. Well then Molly Ivins was full of it.

She did a splendid job of showing how very different Texas is, not only form the rest of the US but the rest of the known world.

I guess she was just a fiction writer?

Julie

[Paladin]

254. So You're Trying To Use Molly Ivins To Shit-Can Texas?

Not very convincing........

[JNelson6563]

263. No, to counter anonymous post on internet

Last edited Fri Jul 6, 2012, 09:48 AM - Edit history (1)

Big difference.

Texas is like every other place....

Yeah, sure it is. Anyone who ever read anything by the late, great Molly Ivins (nevermind all the other info that clearly show that statement to be erroneous) knows this is some pretty special wishful thinking.

Julie

[eilen]

267. Detroit has plenty of room.....

I think it is kind of silly. People's beliefs change over time. If the country was physically divided into RW and LW sides, there would still be evolution in policy gradually to the opposite. It is like a universal law or something. They wouldn't stay the same.

[kentauros]

189. I say we give Michigan back to the Native Americans, first,

whether y'all want to "secede" or not.

[JNelson6563]

249. Works for me, I apply for asylum.

Whoever holds MI will be well positioned for what comes next, fresh water shortages.

Julie

[onenote]

179. Silly question. The answer is no one is being arrested for treason.

History lesson: no one was tried for treason after the Civil War. Some top confederate officials were indicted, but they were pardoned. Under the circumstances (and given that merely "threatening" to secede almost certainly is not "treason" as defined in the Constitution) the answer to your question is that it doesn't matter whether some state "threatens" -- whatever that means -- to secede. Life will go on just as did the day before.

[Rex]

187. Actions speak louder then words

I will believe it when I see it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

196. Bullshit excuse for south bashing...

That's all this thread is.

And every time I read about which states contribute the most federal tax dollars and which states receive the most, I wonder if the person who makes the comment believes in a socialist philosophy... like so many claim to.

[malaise]

197. Not true

I started it because of a comment on another thread about the Health Care Act.
I have a niece and nephew and two grand-nieces born in Texas.

[cherokeeprogressive]

198. It may not have been your intention, but you know as well as I do

that any question about secession returns but one type of answer. I mean it's not like Wisconsin is going to secede, right?

[kentauros]

220. Thank you!

I really don't understand why we Liberals stand for this kind of topic "discussion" here. It's unimportant and counterproductive. About all it really does is show everyone which DUers are the most prejudiced against whole regions of the Nation.

[cordelia]

228. I'd like to add my thanks, too.

I have a feeling that was precisely the intent of the OP.

[roamer65]

199. The Middle East War (aka WW3) will happen first.

The oil will get cutoff and the USA will fall into confusion. There won't be cohesive state governments left to "secede".

[AverageJoe90]

240. I'm sorry, but......

How, in your mind, does another Mideast War automatically lead to WW3,in your view?

[fascisthunter]

200. give the right wing media more time... but yeah, their agenda is AGAINST our country

they can't handle different views.

[muntrv]

201. Keep the states. Let the teabaggers like Rick Perry, Jan Brewer, and the

rest of their ilk secede from the US.

[kentauros]

246. There ya go!

I would whole-heartedly support Rick Perry seceding from the governorship and the state of Texas. Once he's out of here, we can put to use the same tactic for ridding the country of the rest of their ilk, such as Chris Christie and Scott Walker.

[NoGOPZone]

203. Vermont, but more because of the

"we always wanted to be alone anyway" mentality than the "I can't have my way so I'm leaving" South Carolina and Arizona mindset

[Motown_Johnny]

206. I'll go with Alaska.

I don't see anyone else suggesting it and the logistics would be easier for a state that is physically removed from the lower 48.

Even Todd Palin was part of a secessionist party there so there must be a base for that type of thinking.

[treestar]

234. +1

Alaska could have its own foreign policy, with Putin coming over the horizon.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

207. Whichever state is first, odds are they'll inadvertently threaten to "succeed"

Spelling, grammar, and word choice aren't typically the domain of the secession-minded.

[Taverner]

208. Texas. It will always be Texas.

But after Texas, VA, KY, WV, NC, SC, FL, AL, MS, and LA will secede from the country, and become the new CSA.

Surprisingly, GA will not - Atlanta outranks the rest of that state.

Imagine, if you will, the Atlanta Airlift....

[maxrandb]

209. If any states do secede, we need to ensure we don't repeat the mistake

of letting them back in!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

210. I'd prefer to see the major cities become states in their own right

and have their own Congresscritters.

[Son of Gob]

223. Indiana

This fucking crow gives me the heebie jeebies and you can tell he's just itchin' to start his own corn metropolis that requires everyone to wear those hideous one piece bathing suits.

[Arkana]

256. They'll all threaten to secede for a week

then the next shiny object will come along to distract them and they'll forget all about it.

[get the red out]

259. No state will threaten to secede

There's zero money to be made for anyone in that, we all know it isn't going to happen. Besides it would inevitably fuck up some kind of sports season, if not all of them, college and professional.

[malaise]

264. LOL

You may just be correct