At dinner tonight (I Live in Germany) with five families the talk of the US health care was quite

[flygal]

lively - mainly because they do not understand how there are people protesting against anything that could possibly help them. I have no idea how these people tonight vote, but in America you'd know within two minutes which side everyone was on. But NO ONE here - even the righty rights, would give up this health care for the US's.

We've been on the German public insurance for about a year and we pay only a little less than we had in the US - but we paid $1500 last year for office visits and medicine (I have Rheumatoid Arthritis).

We have to date paid our 10 Euro quarterly dues three times here. Dr. visits here are usually same day if needed, we have even had TWO house calls this year at no extra cost, and yes my Rheum. dr. apt was 2 months wait being a new patient but follow-up apts were scheduled easily.

Granted we were shocked at how much extra we pay in taxes here (about 40% here compared to 25% in US), but the sports clubs (gymnastics, tennis, swimming) cost 50 Euro a year per person (compared to $300/month for two kids in US) and are quite good, and we feel like we have a much higher standard of living with 6 weeks vacation and security that we will not lose our livelihood due to illness or unemployment.

We hope to stay here a few more years, but hopefully we can rest assure my RA will be covered.

[SoutherDem]

1. You agree with EVERYONE I have ever spoke to about socialized medicine...

who has actually had socialized medicine.
Even if I quiz them they cannot come up with one example of the horror stories the Republican tell.

[etherealtruth]

8. I have a friend that can't move her aging mother to the "States" ...

... because of the high cost of healthcare in the US. Her mother is essentially "alone" in Windsor, Ontario (her only child, my friend now lives in Metro Detroit).

Her mother is a US citizen but long ago married a Canadian (her daughter was born in Canada) and has lived in Canada most of her life. Under the Canadian system she can afford healthcare on her fixed income. a move to the US would put adequate healthcare out of her reach. she has no real issues with the Canadian system. On a side note the "mom" worked her entire career in the US (while living with her family in Canada) as an RN.

[TheDebbieDee]

2. I'm embarrassed by the very vocal moronic minority of rubes that seem to control

this country now. Some Americans don't want affordable healthcare - they want freedom. Freedom to be bankrupted by some chronic disease! It's simply stupid!

Anyway, I lived in Kitzingen in 1986 - 1987 and I lived in Wurzburg in 1987 - 1990.....I have fond memories of these two cities and I hope thay are still as beautiful as I remember.

[flygal]

14. Wurzburg is as lovely as ever!

One of my favorite cities - love the view of the Fortress above the river! Beautiful bike trail along the river.

Another thing that makes it even with regard to our higher taxes - we get by with one car. We mostly ride our bikes, sometimes take the train in a pinch. Great quality of life. Hope you make it back someday!

[Egalitarian Thug]

3. Standard of living, that's the real issue and none of our leaders are even taking about it

except in the most general, and usually patronizing, way. The "disappearing middle class" is about as close as any of them ever get to raising the issue,

If you tote up all the taxes we pay here, we are paying just a little less than Europeans and we get noting for it. Back when I had an income, I lived in LA proper. After tax take home was about 60% of gross, then after counting sales taxes and various fees I had the privilege of paying just about 51% of my total income to live in this Nirvana of crumbling streets, a criminally negligent school system, and a completely dysfunctional bureaucracy. No health care (that's extra), no justice, and worst of all (to me) absolutely no consequences for rampant graft.

We work like stupid mules, overworked and abused until we're no longer as productive, chasing that carrot to our deaths.

[tru]

4. my Rheum. dr. apt was 2 months wait being a new patient but follow-up apts were scheduled easily

That's par for the course where I live in the US, months wait for the first appointment with a specialist, if you can even get in. Good luck finding a good internist, it took 7 years or so for me to get through the queue after I moved here.

[Worried senior]

5. I belong to a forum for people with

auto-immune conditions. Most of the people on this forum which is based in the UK live either in the UK or surrounding countries.

The care that they get is wonderful, even if they have surgery the post-surgical therapy and assistance they receive is amazing.

My husband has had six hip surgeries, he is now getting therapy but he only got minimal therapy after the surgeries, primarily how to climb steps and get in and out of bed.

They too can't understand about this country and our lack of proper HC unless you have money to spend.

I've also gotten some great information from them regarding our conditions, information I never got here. Now I tell my doctor what I've learned and we're going that route.

When you see the quality of life they have and compare taxes, we might not have the higher tax bill but we get non of the benefits and our out of pocket expenses when you break it all down is higher.

[flygal]

15. Exactly!

We have the ability to bike everywhere! One reason my husband took this job was to be able to have this kind of lifestyle again. Just like college. We have two grocery stores within a short bike ride and public transportation is also nearby. But we pay almost nothing for sports.

Comparing our expenses between the US (Moderately priced larger city) and here - we are a little behind here due to the higher taxes. But we feel so much happier. So we can't buy as much crap - we budget a little more and have a smaller house (duplex). I can't imagine ever moving into a mcmansion after being able to live comfortably with less.

[and-justice-for-all]

6. Ich liebe Deutschland!

[Ikonoklast]

7. And it is one of the oldest social welfare healthcare plans in existence.

Since 1883 under Bismarck.

[Quantess]

9. Guten tag! Hej!

I live in Sweden and we pay even more taxes than Germany, I believe.
Nobody here would trade their health care for the USA model (at least, nobody I know). I posted this in another similar thread:

I have unfortunately needed to go to the doctor a few times. I call in the morning before 9:30 to set an appointment. A couple times it was later that same day. The longest wait time for a regular doctor was 3 days. It cost about $15 for a general practitioner visit. If you get a referral to a specialist, you have to wait for a letter to arrive at your home telling you your appointment date. I waited 2 and a half weeks for a dermatologist. It was about $15

The hospital is slightly more expensive, but not much. I had surgery and the total bill was about $150 for everything.

The most noticeable difference at the hospital, was that the nurses were not stressed out. They had time for conversation. There were more nurses than what you typically see in an American hospital.

[zeemike]

10. Years ago I was at a gathering where there were two exchange students from Switzerland.

And the conversation came around to politics and taxes...with the usual right wing talking points of how terrible it is to pay these high taxes....the two exchange students just listened and said not a word...finally I asked them saying the taxes are high in your country how do you feel about that...they admitted that they were much higher but they felt that they got a lot for them in services and did not care that they were high because all the people were taken care of and they did not have to worry about crime and such things caused by poverty and neglect.
How the right has been able to convince us all that caring for our own people is wrong is really disgusting.

[underpants]

11. Nowhere but in the US is there the propaganda of Fox News

it controls all political discussion. CNN echoes it and MSNBC spends 30%+ of its time answering Fox News.
The Republican party is controlled by Fox News - on wrong answer at the debates meant that you were out.

David Frum summed it up, "Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us and now we're discovering we work for Fox. And this balance here has been completely reversed. The thing that sustains a strong Fox network is the thing that undermines a strong Republican party."

[southernyankeebelle]

12. Your exactly right. I lived in Germany, Italy and have relatives in Canada and NONE of them

would give up their health care for ours. The RW are liars.

[Canuckistanian]

13. It's certainly true for this Canadian

When I hear the horror stories from America, I'm SO grateful for our system.

I, my family and all of my friends have had excellent medical care all of our lives - we expect it and want it to stay that way.
There's NOBODY I know who wants to have an American "profit and gouge" healthcare system like you have.

I always wondered why Michael Moore's "Sicko" didn't start a popular revolution to demand single-payer.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. "America is the first country to have gone from barbarism to decadence without the usual intervening

"America is the first country to have gone from barbarism to decadence without the usual intervening period of civilization." -  Oscar Wilde