The CEO's of the retail boxes know that it is time to fold. Automation

[CK_John]

will empty all the malls in a few years.

[vlyons]

1. why drive to a mall when

Amazon or walmart or ebay can deliver it to your home. Why do your think that republicans want to privatize and sell off the US Post Office? $$$$$$$$$$

[CK_John]

2. Where does your Post Office comment come from????

[vlyons]

6. right now it's a Republican "good idea"

being talked about in GOP circles. Devious republicans have set up laws to make it fail, like requiring the PO to put away 70% of money for retiree benefits. Something that NO business does. Refusing to allow the PO to offer banking services, cash pay checks to low income workers, sell office supplies. Several years ago, Darrell was making a lot of noise about privatizing the PO. Sell it off to UPS and FedEx.

Google "privatize post office" to find out more

http://www.newsmax.com/Stossel/Privatize-Post-Office-Congress/2013/04/17/id/499910/

http://www.alternet.org/story/152451/3_big_lies_at_the_heart_of_republican_attacks_on_the_post_office

[MichMan]

47. Wrong; should have googled the law itself instead

The Postal Accountability & Enhancement Act (HR 6407) was passed in December 2006 and signed into law by Bush.

Sponsored by Tom Davis with three co sponsors, Henry Waxman, John McHugh, and Danny Davis. ( two Democrats and two Republicans )

It was passed by voice vote in the house, and by unanimous consent in the Senate, so both parties were to blame.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/house-bill/6407

[CK_John]

3. A society that does not mingle together, is a society in collapse.

[Codeine]

10. We can mingle without malls.

The human animal is a gregarious creature and that seems unlikely to change, at least in the short term.

[pnwmom]

12. Actually, there is much less "mingling" in community spaces than there used to be.

Lower membership in social organizations, etc.

[Codeine]

30. I would contend we mingle more than ever.

The difference is that we don't mingle face-to-face but rather virtually, through the intarwebz. While surely a different form of interaction, I think it's too early to say that it's an inherently less-healthy way of doing things. I'm not going to pretend to know either way.

[Kaleva]

33. I mingle far more on the web then I've ever done in person

Most of my family is spread all over the country and several live overseas. Back in the day, we'd communicate with the occasional phone call and hand written letter. Now it's almost daily.

[Codeine]

34. Agreed. My closest friends are a couple I met online

on a boardgaming forum, and I've formed lasting and real friendships with people all over the world through hobby and game discussions. Some of these people I've met with and some I'll never see face-to-face, but each of them is as real and important to me as anyone I know locally. The world keeps chugging along, and the only constant is change.

[pnwmom]

37. But that's a significant difference -- and a loss. We're not robots. n/t

[TransitJohn]

18. A society that comingles social interaction with commercialism sucks

Just sayin'.

[yeoman6987]

5. The savings on our planet through less emissions is the only positive to it

[Jonny Appleseed]

4. Drone grocery deliveries soon.

the 22nd century begins with us looking like the people from Wall-E

?itok=ZGeVcM8t

[LisaM]

9. How does this not sound awful to people?

Packages being dropped by drones sounds AWFUL.

[Adrahil]

14. As opposed to what?

Going to a mall where I have to browse to find what I want taking up hours of time. 90% of the time they don't even have what I want. Then I have to deal with surly stir clerks just to pay for it. I HATE shopping.

[LisaM]

25. I actually like shopping, but I meant as opposed to being delivered by a person.

I also, for example, have a small local bookstore that I like, and I frequently special order from them. It usually gets there in a couple of days, they make money and stay in business, I've supported a local business, and everyone is good.

I agree with whomever said our social fabric is being rent. I fear that online shopping has created a generation of people who can't interact with the people around them and don't want to. I remember reading some young tech-company worker's assessment of GrubHub - she could order and receive food without ever having to see a person! But gathering to eat meals is something that creates a community and it's also good for your physical and mental health to socialize at meals.

I think this goes beyond the normal rates of things like agoraphobia. People are becoming incapable of interacting.

[Adrahil]

35. I think there are better ways to build social binds with people.

I spent an afternoon with friends yesterday at a local brew-pub. TONS better than shopping (for me, that is).

As for packages.... I just find them only doorstep. Doesn't matter much to me how they get there.

[kcr]

40. A local brew-pub is a business.

This thread just sounds a lot like "My form of human interaction and job creation is better than the one that is dying, so no big deal."

The OP is wrong. These businesses aren't closing because the CEOs know automation is coming. Most of the big boxes that have closed so far have done so because of mismanagement. It also isn't true that malls in general are dying. It's just the ones in areas that are economically suffering. It just so happens that more areas are suffering. There are actually malls that are doing very well. This isn't a symptom of people hating to shop. It's a symptom of widening economic inequality. No one who knows better should be celebrating this.

[Codeine]

36. Most deliveries are a package dumped on the doorstep.

My social interaction with a deliveryperson is rarely more involved than "Thanks, dude."; they aren't there to chat and I want to open the box and get my loot.

[LisaM]

39. Maybe, but it's also a job for someone.

And some of the other people they deliver to might look forward to saying hello to someone. If they're invalid, for example, it might be the only social contact they get.

I also don't want things being dropped from the sky in my city. I just don't.

[Initech]

7. Well we can take shelter in the malls when we all lose our homes.

[Volaris]

8. Re purposing those buildings into local govt and community centers

Would be a fantastic idea in places where economic growth hasn't quite kept up.

[OriginalGeek]

19. There's a mall here in Orlando

it's in a very high traffic, touristy part of town. There have been several dozen tries to make it popular with all different kinds of stores but between the Movie theater at one end, the Bass pro shops in the middle and the Western boot store at the other end it is dead dead dead.

Folks come to one of those three things, enter from outside and never go inside. The latest iteration of trying to make it interesting was to rent all the middle space to food and art and music vendors - it was actually lovely to wander around all the different art and crafts and decoration stores. My wife and I went to a glass-blowing store and made our own little glass vases (they do 99% of the work and we picked the colors and spun the thing in the oven for a few seconds lol.) It was a ton of fun and I wanted to go back and make a beer mug but the mall owners sold the mall and kicked everyone out except the theater and the Bass Pro Shops (which I believe have their own agreements with the property and they get enough business to pay the rent).

The owners just came in one day and told everyone they had 2 weeks to pack up and gtfo. Luckily, the bad-ass comic book store/bar found new space nearby so we can keep going there.

This might have happened because a man died there on their indoor adventure attraction a couple months ago - kind of a rope-climbing playground thing for adults but the guy fell off it from 40~50 feet up.

But as long as I've lived here (30+ years) the theater and Bass Pro Shops are the only places I ever see with regular business. It's a good theater - they sell beer and their nachos are the best in town. Best movie nachos I mean. They recently upgraded to the leather-ish recliners with electric motors to raise the footrests and big wide armrests so everybody gets some. Plus they are consistently a dollar or three cheaper (depending which screen and how new the movie is) than all the other theaters around.

Across the street there's an outlet mall complex with maybe 100-150 different outlet stores , no covered areas (everything is facing outside) fair type food (maybe a restaurant or two in there) and acres and acres of parking that is always so full people park on the grass medians between areas. I don't think any of them even look across the street at the mall.

I read somewhere that a large percentage of outlet stores are bullshit. They aren't selling name brand overstock/seconds at deep discounts, they are selling cheap knock-offs of their own stuff made just for the outlets.

Anyway, a tip of the glass to long-gone Artegon. I miss you already.

[Yavin4]

20. Why not set up an Amazon kiosk in the dead space in the mall.

Folks can go in order online, eat at the mall, go to a bar, go to a movie whatever, and in a couple of hours, their product is delivered to them.

[OriginalGeek]

22. might work

they could give people buzzers like at restaurants to let them know when their stuff has arrived...


as long as they don't light up the movie theater...


I guess we'll have to see what the new owners will do with it. Nothing announced that I've seen yet.


I hope the glass-blowing place finds a new home. I felt like Chihuly making my vase! lol

[jmowreader]

43. There's an Amazon kiosk in the Southcenter Mall in the Seattle area, but it's not like yours

They have all their Amazon-branded electronics there. If you want one after playing with it, you order it and it's shipped to your home. (Or you DON'T order it...I was thinking about buying a Fire tablet until I got a chance to use one; I ended up buying an iPad.)

[Yavin4]

45. I was thinking more high tech. Think Virtual Reality shopping.

You strap on the gear and can see the product that you want to buy. Order it there and then you can stream a movie or eat lunch or sit in a bar while you wait until your item is delivered.

[jmowreader]

46. I think you'll need one of those Star Trek transporters to make that happen

How about this? Have the VR headsets there. You could also have some product samples for people to play with - Kindles and Echos definitely, and maybe thirty to fifty other fast-moving items. But when you order the stuff, it goes next-day air to your house. We're still in a world constrained by the laws of physics, and Amazon doesn't have distribution centers everywhere.

[AgadorSparticus]

11. Maybe they can turn those malls into affordable small space living.

They have already done it successfully.

[MineralMan]

13. I often buy jewelry as a gift for my wife.

In times past, I would go to the mall and see what was on offer from the multiple jewelry stores there. I stopped doing that about three years ago. Now, I either go to Amazon or Etsy to look for those gifts. I get to see more variety and look for better bargains. This year, I found something for her birthday on Amazon. I ordered it, and it was delivered the next day to my front door with no shipping charge.

Am I proud of that? No, not really. But, I can no longer think of a better way to shop for such things. Most of those mall jewelry stores have closed at my local mall in Minnesota. The ones that are left rarely have anything that is in any way unique. So, I shop on Amazon and Etsy. Why would I do otherwise.

[crazycatlady]

15. shameless plug

I sell jewelry on Etsy. Inexpensive, but if you are in the market consider checking my store out.

Link is in my signature.

[NCTraveler]

16. Saving your link.

[MineralMan]

17. Thanks. I generally do searches for the type of thing

I'm looking for, and follow those results. So, if I'm looking for a specific thing on Etsy, I'll see people who have included that in their descriptions or tags.

[crazycatlady]

38. If there's anything I can do for you let me know

I'll do custom orders for DUers

(I already have been with pussyhats)

[not fooled]

21. also eBay

especially for vintage and antique jewelry. Addictive!

[MineralMan]

24. I tend not to shop on eBay for gifts for others.

I do buy for myself, but I'm always concerned about issues if I'm buying a gift. If I'm looking for vintage items, I usually shop locally in shops that specialize in those things, so I can physically inspect them before making a purchase. If it's vintage jewelry, which I do sometimes buy, I go in armed with a jeweler's loupe and my own knowledge of gemstones.

My wife's not that excited about most vintage jewelry, though, so I don't usually shop for that as gifts for her, although I've made an exception a time or two. I tend to visit vintage jewelry outlets, though, just out of my own interest. From time to time, I buy items that have been misidentified by the shop for resale. It's interesting how often vintage jewelry dealers misidentify the stones in items, sometimes to my benefit. Occasionally, they even misidentify the metals.

My favorite purchase like that was a pale blue diamond ring in a platinum setting that had been misidentified as an aquamarine in sterling silver. The stone was .5 carats. I'm afraid I didn't notify the shop owner of her error. I did very well on that purchase. I took a small chance that I was wrong about the higher refraction index of the stone. The metal wasn't marked, but nobody would mount a .5 carat blue diamond in sterling silver, so I assumed it was a platinum setting.

I sold that find to another jeweler, who confirmed my identification, at a price that would allow him a profit.

That said, it's fairly unusual to find things like that, and it takes a good eye as you look over a tray of items to spot the one that is out of place in that tray. That particular ring wasn't all that attractive, the diamond was a cushion cut and the style wasn't one most people would prefer, which is probably why it wasn't closely inspected by the vintage jewelry dealer. It looked for all the world like an aquamarine in sterling. It happens.

And that's why I visit vintage and estate jewelry dealers from time to time.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

23. I don't get it

How can one buy clothing or shoes without trying them on first? If you buy online and it looks awful or doesn't fit you have to go through the hassle of returning the item. Also going to a mall may cause you to spend more just by looking around. Went to Australia and New Zealand and the malls there were crowded. Also in Europe small independent stores seem to be doing well. Who knows?

[Hoyt]

26. I buy a lot of stuff on-line nowadays, mainly because I hate shopping. BUT,

I bet 50% of the clothes I have bought on-line go back. So, I'm rethinking that.

I'm right in the middle on sizing. Sometimes a large size will fit perfectly, other times I bust the seams just putting it on. Then, if I order XL, I sometimes look like I have a serious disease it's so big. Plus, on-line photos never look like the real thing. Shoes are a real crapshoot on-line unless you are just replacing a worn out pair with something similar from same manufacturer.

Jeez, you can get some stuff from Amazon the same day you order.

But, I do worry about the impact on people who work in the stores.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

42. For me non clothing items on Amazon

are the best bet. Pet supplies, DVDs and books are my usual Amazon choice. And I must admit going to Barnes and Noble checking their stock and then go home and buy from Amazon.

[hack89]

31. Zappos makes it easy when it comes to shoes

returning stuff is easy - it actually makes sense shopping with them to order 3 or 4 pairs and return the ones you don't decide to keep.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

41. Are their shoes made in China?

I usually go to Peltz and try to find shoes that were made in US or Germany (not an easy task). I have long been curious about Zappos but I have weird feet from going barefoot a lot, so I need wide shoes. The only shoes I can buy online are Birkenstocks.

[hack89]

44. They carry every brand imaginable.

I don't think it will be hard to find US or German shoes with a little research.

[lies]

27. This is a NOT IF BUT WHEN situation

In person shopping will gradually almost completely disappear. It's just waaaay to expensive relative to the alternatives.

So... find other ways to mingle, and teach your children other ways to mingle.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. What Ghost of Tom Joad said.

I must try on clothes and shoes. Not everything that's marked with my size fits, and of those that fit, not all look good on me.

I also love browsing bookstores and actually talk to knowledgeable sales people about their products. When I buy a car I absolutely want to test drive the one I purchase.

And so on.

[brooklynite]

29. When I buy shoes, I like to try them on and see how they fit...

When I buy a TV, I like to try it and see how the image is...

Whe I buy a car, I like to try it and see how well it drives...

But that's just me.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. Me too

I don't think brick and mortar are going away in a few years. As long as women (myself included) want to see if our ass looks 'fat in that' - there will be brick and mortar stores.

I see the old time dept stores going way though . . . too many small boutiques even in rural nj carrying the same top tier lines.