I am compiling a list of our conservative allies colloquially known as the Never Trumpers

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Bret Stephens
David Frum
Rick Wilson
John Weaver
Ana Navarro
Richard Painter


I can find areas of agreement with them:

Lying is bad
Respect for the rule of law
Respect for pluralism
Respect for due process
Government by consent and not decree

[caroldansen]

1. Good job.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Kind of like the Righteous Gentiles of WW ll

Let's hope and pray things don't get so bad there will be Righteous Republican memorials fifty years hence.

[janterry]

3. 2 more

David Brooks and
George Will both detest trump

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. And Bill Kristol.

But let's not hope they become wobbly.


You know who is a sad case: Charles Krauthammer. He lambasted Trump, but he doesn't any more to please his masters at FOX.
Did you know he became paralyzed in a diving accident while attending Harvard. He eventually recovered and got his medical degree. You would think someone with that kind of stuff wouldn't become a sycophant for Trump.

[lame54]

5. that's a very short list

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. How many prominent Germans were falling over themselves to stop Hitler?

[Ilsa]

14. Exactly. Yesterday I was watching old film on the

History channel, or another like it, with interviews with concentration camp survivors and guards from Auschwitz. One guard talked about his first day there, how it all made him sick. One of his fellow demons explained to him that it gets easier with time. Honestly, I couldn't watch any more.

[lame54]

16. that's obviously a short list too

[JHB]

8. ...and none of them are in Congress.

A handful of political consultants, talking heads, and a lawyer.

[JHB]

6. "Shooting at the same target, for now" is a better description than "allies"...

They're still OK with what Congress is doing, and for that matter with a lot of what Trump is doing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Wilson, Frum, and Weaver have been deeply critical of Chump Care.

[JHB]

13. From which angles? Have the suddenly become ACA fans?

Or are they in the "government shouldn't be in health care at all" camp per proper conservative doctrine?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Weaver, Frum, and Wilson are attacking it from the angle that poor and working class folks....

Weaver, Frum, and Wilson are attacking it from the angle that poor and working class folks are going to get screwed. I am not aware of Stephens' and Navarro's reaction.

[seaglass]

10. Don't forget Evan McMullin. n/t

[Glitterati]

11. Republicans of ANY stripe will NEVER, EVER be a Democratic ally

They may be against Trump, but they are NOT allies of the Democrats.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. The Soviets were our allies against Hitler.

The Russians were our allies against the Rebs.

[JHB]

18. The Russians were never threatened by the Confederates...

...the way the Soviets were under attack fromHitler and, at a lower level, establishment Republicans and Movement Conservatives are threatened by Kremlin Don and the band of extremists he relies on. So I don't quite get one of your analogies.

This is more "Revenge of the Birchers". In the 50's, 69's, and into the 70's, when Buckley and other conservatives worked to sideline the leadership of the John Birch Society and its ilk as the face of conservatism, but not alienate the rank and file so much that they'd balk at supporting Buckleyite-conservative Republicans. They've always courted the foamer vote to get the numbers they need, and after decades of this the monster they fed was used against them.

Look, I don't think we're actually as far apart on this as it may look from some brief message board exchanges. I'm all for using them against the Trump regime, in places where name-dropping them can make a difference in prying some Republicans from reflexively backing him because he's the head of their party.

I just think that's a very limited set of circumstances, and most of the rest of the time we would be better served by bringing up that these people have spent their careers being on board with (or actively participating in) the demonization of Democrats in order to get and maintain power, and building a base that was full outrage and ate up every horseshit claim that came down the pike like it was chocolate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. If intellectuals like Frum are small c conservatives in the Burkean tradition.

If intellectuals like Frum are small c conservatives in the Burkean tradition they should be as appalled by Trumpism as we are and be our allies. We can argue whose vision for America is right civilly and democratically, after he is gone.

As a small aside I never heard Frum demonize Democrats like a Limbaugh or a Hannity.

[mopinko]

17. steve schmidt.