I was just called "radical left"

[Exilednight]

In another thread someone called me part of the radical left.

If believing that a woman's right to choose is a decision to be left between her, and her creator and that she should be provided a safe and legals means for such a procedure: then yes I am part of the radical left.

If believing every person should have access to healthcare: then yes I am part of the radical left.

If believing that people should have a job that pays a liveable wage: then yes I am part of the radical left.

If believing that the wealthy should pay their fair share of taxes: then yes I am part of he radical left.

If believing that every person should have the right the vote: then yes I am part of the radical left.

If believing that each individual has the right to marry anyone they choose, regardless of their race or sex: then yes I am part of the radical left.

If you want to call me radical left, then I will gladly take that label and wear it with pride.

My question is, why are so many scared of it?

[chillfactor]

1. AMEN!

Then I am also part of the radical left

[TheBlackAdder]

46. Dang! Almost sounds like the 1956 Eisenhower Republican Party Platform!

.


Throw this link back at them:


http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25838#


.

[elleng]

2. Good question.

[Raster]

3. Well then, that makes me part of the "radical left" also...

...and I see I'm in EXCELLENT company!

[Phoenix61]

4. Not a clue

My usual response when someone calls me a liberal of any persuasion is "And?" Takes the wind right out of their sails.

[milestogo]

5. It means you voted for Trump.

I know because I got backed in to that corner too.

[Exilednight]

9. No. It means they wish I voted for Trump so they could have someone to blame.

[Cary]

61. Who are "they?"

Interesting how out of one side of your mouth you whine about being identified as radical and out of the other you're identifying yourself.

Sounds to me like you're being obtuse.

[Exilednight]

62. Why so defensive?

Do you have a guilty conscience?

[Cary]

63. I confess

I'm still searching for functional communication with radicals. The problem of course is they twist any good intentions and use them against me, and bend over backwards to drive wedges.The only known functional strategy for dealing with this behavior is total avoidance of persons who display it.

I have derived much amusement in the past by mocking people who take themselves too seriously. For some reason though my sense of humor wasn't appreciated so now I am holding back. Perhaps that's what you're sensing? You're certainly ripe for mocking.

[Exilednight]

66. You seriously believe e there's a radical left in this country that

Has any influence over elections?

If you do, then that's the funniest thing I've read all century.

[Cary]

69. Laugh and the whole world laughs with you

Otherwise I call it as I see it, and you won't affect me with your silly attempts at psychobabble. You're not original, or good at it.

There is a radical left sowing discord and discontent. They are at best not helpful. Just go to JPT and you will see a number of people who played the same games with me here that you're playing right now. So save it for someone who believes you when you pee on their leg and try to tell them it's raining

[brer cat]

85. +1 nt

[Gothmog]

89. Great post

[Jakes Progress]

92. Exactly. A perfect reply to babble without truth.

[LiberalLovinLug]

113. "There is a radical left sowing discord and discontent"

Like that is the USAs biggest threat. You should be writing for Free Republic. They'd love you there.

Yes, there are Democrats that feel strongly about the issues listed in the OP with their 'radical ideas'.
And let me guess, they go up on your 'radical' scale in direct relation to how much support each of these issues get with the top establishment leadership of the Democratic party. Or which reps raise the issue.

And going further, how DARE we on Democratic Underground debate the party's direction and strategy going forward, lest someone get offended.

[Hortensis]

118. "There is a radical left sowing discord and discontent.

They are at best not helpful." Wanted to copy that one again-again.

The big point of discussing this stuff is not to communicate with zealots who will not change, but rather to help people understand that a great deal of the criticism of liberals and Democrats is coming from enemies from the fringes and extremes of the far left. It is frequently just as hostile and often irrational as that coming from the right. In fact, most incoming from the left is adapted or copied outright from the right.

Unfortunately, while the extra-passionate ones often truly appreciate liberal principles and ideals, they are too often willing to sacrifice them in pursuit of whatever and whomever their zealotry has fixed on. And in this the Democrats, founders and keepers the liberal, progressive, cooperative principles our nation was founded on, are always the giant, immovable boulder in their eternally resentful way.

[Cary]

119. There is a line between constructive criticism and sowing discord and discontent

It's not a bright line but at some point one crosses over from good faith, to malice.

When radical rightests change the subject from whatever it is to some kind of personal attack on the person thst is a telltale sign of malice.

[Hortensis]

123. And/or an expression of angry frustration. :)

If ONLY everyone would understand that they, or perhaps their leader(s), have THE answers and fall in behind them. If only we were wise enough to get out of their way, they could create a wonderful new world.

That belief that they could replace an always completely corrupt, unrepairable present with an achievable utopia is one of the defining characteristics of those caught up in zealotry, right or left. If ONLY we let them purge all our experienced legislators and replace them with newbies obligingly singing their song, what greatness they could achieve.

[Cary]

130. Our system was built around compromise

Our founding fathers understood the need to compromise. They kicked the slavery can down the road for 100 years. They compromised about the existence of slavery.

Hey I understand the evil of that but had they not been able to compromise then what?

[Hortensis]

140. Simple and actually wonderful truth. We have a great system

dependent on a system of cooperation and compromise that normally allows most across the spectrum to feel their nation is theirs. Even if it means wallowing along in staid, imperfect stability instead of allowing various factions to kick it all over again and again to grab at whatever brave new vision is exciting this one this time.

That so many are no longer proud of that reveals the insidious success of those who mean to destroy it and rule by and for a few.

[Exilednight]

134. Trust me, I'm laughing, but not with you.

[Cary]

141. If I had a nickel for every time a "conservative" said that to me...

Like I said you're not good at this

[Rex]

129. Well with the epic failures of the Centrists, of course they need to blame someone!

I agree it is funny and I laugh at their expense every chance I get.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

170. In my observation, it certainly works both ways. nt

[Cary]

172. Thank you

I omitted the false equivalence, both sides do it ploy.

All ideas are not equal. Sorry. No it doesn't necessarily work both ways. I don't behave that way, ever.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

173. Huh?

I'm saying the actions have cut both ways.

And I agree, all ideas are not equal, most certainly.

[LanternWaste]

97. I'd allege the same pretense lacking evidence as well if the OPs premise supported my biases

I'd allege the same pretense lacking evidence as well if the OPs premise supported my biases, but I had neither objective nor substantive indications of it really being the case.

It's fun to pretend we know what other people wish; we get to feel more important and clever than reality may otherwise indicate...

[caroldansen]

6. They want to create more republicans and brainwash people into believing their way. They

Are afraid of losing control again. And they will lose control to the democrats again. The democrats stand for democracy and our freedoms.

[caroldansen]

8. If God didn't want us to have freedom of choice He would have made us robots.

[leftstreet]

7. In 'another thread' here at DU?

[Exilednight]

10. Yes.

[Warpy]

19. Left bashing has become a favorite topic of a few posters

The jury system hasn't been very good at eliminating such Republican style posts.

Why do I call them that? Well, I've often said the difference between the parties is that we hate Republican policies while they hate us. The left bashers seem to be most unhappy that "the left" exists, period.

Such posts blame "the left" for everything from the defeat of Clinton by the EC along with the defeat of every other Democratic candidate who has lost to the pit in the avocado being too big, without ever defining this mythical beast or citing any objectionable policies or even providing proof of voting shenanigans that might be illegal..

They sound so much like Republicans who say all their candidates would have won if blacks/women/poor people/Hispanics/Democrats in general couldn't vote.

Fortunately, these posters are few. They do seem to post every single day.

[KittyWampus]

39. There is very little of what you are claiming

In fact you even say "FEW posters".

And this is a meta-thread.

We don't even know what the original post said.

[Warpy]

58. You don't. I do.

DU is better than this, or it was.

Left bashing serves no one, especially the Democratic Party as a whole.

[Alice11111]

44. Interesting, We hate their policies, but they hate us.

I hadn't thought of it that way before. I am getting more seething hae or dislike, than I ever remember before, even from my more conservative Dem friends. The family used to keep politics out of our events. Now, it's like a bomb that can easily be triggered . I feel the hate and anger.

[Hortensis]

132. The difference between liberal Democrats and

those farther left is that liberals hate Republican policies while illiberals resent and despise liberals and the Democratic Party. Republicans definitely an afterthought.

Harsh, telling reality is, the illiberal left's major focus of 2015 and 2016 was in trying to take over the Democratic Party and "reform" it by supposedly kicking out people the Democratic membership had elected to office many times over and replacing them with the choices of a few "wise" ones, some of whom weren't even Democrats but had spent decades despising them.

Incredibly, they chose to mount their (badly failed) attempt to dismantle the existing Democratic Party during an existential election battle as the right was attempting to elect right-wing extremist fascists, religious zealots and wannabe kleptocrats.

Well, under attack from right and left, we lost. By the thinnest of margins. 70K votes in 3 states. It would be really interesting to know the count of those who imagined taking over the party but didn't vote for it. And the number of clueless others who were influenced against voting Democratic by their many months of despicable, dishonest claims of primary corruption.

[betsuni]

135. +1

[Warpy]

142. Must be nice to be omniscient

Of course, if you're really not, you run the risk of being spectacularly wrong.

The Democrats couldn't have had a nearly 3 million vote majority without what you call "the left."

The party was beaten by the Republicans, not some monolithic "the left."

There are two separate issues here. First, the only vote you control is your own. If you want to persuade other people to join you, the first thing you need to do is stop bashing them.

The second issue is that there are party policies that need to be changed because they don't work. Chief among them was the rapid abandonment of Dean's 50 state strategy, which did work. Wonks need to let go of dogma and look at results.

Failing to address these two issues will result in the party losing more elections and eventually becoming marginalized as people give up on it and look for third parties. Is that what you want? Then keep doing what you're doing, it's working fine.

[Hortensis]

147. If only the people I'm talking about had been.

Last edited Wed Mar 8, 2017, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)

It's very possible their betrayals lost us a lot more than three million votes--just speaking of votes of course.

As for the true, tragic costs... We SHOULD be talking about meeting the goals we committed to at the Paris climate talks, not about the gutting of the EPA and dismantling of 40 years of environmental legislation.

[sammythecat]

165. The primary ended many months ago

It's over, done with and we've all been "asked" to drop it. For the sake of unity. You know, like as in "Stronger Together". Also, the time changes this Sunday. We lose an hour but it'll still be 2017, NOT 2016.

[Fla Dem]

182. Here is the thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8749488

The OP's comments begin at #316.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Why? Excellent question.

...

[Snackshack]

12. Nothing radical...

About any of those points you make. Every one of those points is rational and in a country as wealthy as this one are basic rights that should be afforded to all.

Rational Left...

[58Sunliner]

13. I was told I'm part of what's wrong with America.

Consider the source.

[KittyWampus]

14. Stupid meta-thread. It may be that someone thinks you might be an ideolouge. Or a "purist".

I don't know. Don't care.

But your meta-thread is meta and should be locked.

[bravenak]

18. Agreed. We have bigger fish to fry.

[Exilednight]

24. I feel sad for you. I would never disparage anyone who says they

Support Democratic party policy. Must be pretty lonely from where you sit.

[KittyWampus]

34. I am not disparaging anyone. Except maybe ideolougues. I feel sad for anyone

who needs to post a meta-thread to whine about something you didn't like ON ANOTHER OP.

[Exilednight]

43. Here, maybe this will help you feel better.

[TheMastersNemesis]

15. Radical Left I Really A Myth. Your OP Shows You Are Really The Center.

Most sane people want the same things you listed. I also have the same belief.

The radical left they refer to is the communist party which does not exist in any numbers in the US. They also conflate the meme radical left being a dangerous, violent and anarchist. They are trying to scare people into thinking that the "radical left" is destroying the county. They infer that the "radical left" is pro terrorist.

It is a way to discredit progressive ideas and policies that were actually reveals in FDR's economic bill of rights. Your OP has most of the themes he espoused.

[socialist_n_TN]

98. The Communist Party USA has supported every Democratic candidate......

for President since Roosevelt INCLUDING Hillary Clinton in 2016. So no, they aren't "radical left". They ate "leftish" Democrats for all practical purposes.

[Hortensis]

146. Anyone here spread the primary lies about Hillary's

corruption? You know the ones, months and months and months of left-wing lies that only reinforced the blizzard of lies put out by the right--that the Democratic Party is corrupt and in bondage to corporatists. The lies about "stealing" primary votes, state after state after state? So that even the most ignorant voter ended up believing these scurrilous slanders must be true because they came from both "sides"?

Imo, people who did that were as dishonest and dishonorable in their attempts to take down our major candidate, and others, as their counterparts on the right.

Then, of course, there are no doubt some visiting from other forums who actually do really believe these lies and the incredible dense webs of conspiracies built on them. Enough about them.

What I see on this thread is attempts by some to rationalize away sabotaging the Democratic candidate and party during a desperately important election. Now that it's far too late, it's so unfair that not everyone will pretend to believe it never happened.

Wouldn't it be nice if President Trump never happened? If we could be talking about improvements to the ACA, increases in the minimum wage, battling climate change, affordable college?

[roamer65]

16. You sound centrist to me.

Each one of your points is supported by a majority of Americans.

Problem is our dysfunctional, gerrymandered national "government" does not represent the majority.

[Alice11111]

45. !!!

[Blue_true]

17. That is the problem.

You believe that you, and you alone believe in those principles and anyone that deviate from you by one nanometer is invalid. That mindset has cost us many elections that we should have won, set the country back decades and made your ideal state even more difficult to accomplish.

I avoid going after the far or radical (whatever) mindset like my heart and soul are insisting that I do because the last time I did, my post was removed.

[Crunchy Frog]

33. I see no evidence from his post that he believes any of those things

that you are attributing to him.

[KittyWampus]

41. there is no link to the original post the OP'er is even complaining about...

for all we know the original post could have been some JPR-type blather.

[Crunchy Frog]

153. I know which thread he's referring to

And pretty sure that you do too.

[GWC58]

20. Center left here.

My sister-in-law, with anger in her voice and fire in her eyes calls me a "fucking liberal." She has a problem with the needs of women for basic healthcare. So does my niece. By the way no way are you radical left. How many here are? I'd gamble to say not many, if any.

[slumcamper]

21. BADGE OF HONOR.

Wear it proudly. If that is all they have to counter your commitment to principles, then you win.

They might as well have said "Wow, I'm in total awe of your unwavering commitment to your beliefs and principles."

But they couldn't. It's beneath them to be real and actually compliment you. So you need to read between the lines of the insult. SAD.

[choie]

22. Yup that seems to be

a popular tactic by some here these days (well, since the election). The negative responses to your OP are examples.

[Kimchijeon]

23. They've been brainwashed for decades

to a kneejerk rejection of anything that should be considered humane and worthy of a first world society.

So according to them I guess yep basic human rights and decencies are "radical."

[AllaN01Bear]

25. yes

add to that if taking care of the sick, the poor , and the elderly make me librul and what you said , so be it, (sticks out tounge )

[no_hypocrisy]

26. Congratulations! My father has called me a Communist for similar stances.

[IronLionZion]

27. Ever been called a social justice warrior?

a person who expresses or promotes socially progressive views.

Using this one as an insult always cracks me up

[Exilednight]

28. I was once called a pinko when I was in the Army.

[redstateblues]

29. LOL- My wife calls me that all the time. I try to tell her I'm very centrist

which I am. There are times when I'm afraid I married a Republican.

[BadgerMom]

30. Me, too!

I'm with you!

I am a white, once-Christian, cisgendered female. I am liberal. I think I've ducked that descriptor over the years. Yet, unlike me and my distance from the term "liberal," I think that the LGBT community has done themselves a world of good over get the course of my adult life time by embracing their identity. I now firmly believe I have done myself and my identity as a liberal a disservice by dodging the announcement of who I am. Originally, conservatives were disparaging and I paid no attention. It was jerks and bullies acting like jerks and bullies. Let it go. Then they became pushier. People like Rush ginned up their crazy followers. I wanted no part of them. But now I'm so sick of them misrepresenting who and what liberals are and what they want, I don't care whom I face. I'm not running from their crap anymore. I'm a liberal--far left, even--and I'm an American patriot, daughter of a vet and an immigrant. My far left opinion is every bit as solid as their right wing one. Bring it!

[HAB911]

65. WORD!

[Doreen]

31. All of us damn left radicals are just a thorn in societies

side.....well....the Repukes side. I am proud of it.

[bdamomma]

32. Radical left???

they love giving people titles, radical left, progressives, liberals, Democrats, I am all of the above!!!!!!

ha maybe they are scared? because they cannot accept change or diversity.

[jalan48]

35. It's a term I would expect to hear on FOX News.

[mwooldri]

36. Welcome to what the rest of the world calls being called a Social Democrat or Liberal.

I'm for unions, but not militant ones.

I'm for single payer healthcare that's free at the point of delivery, but also free to allow doctors to practice privately if they choose to do so.

I'm up for a living wage, however it is defined. However I am up for everyone who can work does work at something, and for some form of assistance in some shape or fashion where the pay packet falls short.

I'm up for everyone paying their fair share of taxes. Rich and poor.

I'm up for freedom of movement of people and goods across the entire world. The European Union? The United States? A good start.

If it's what is called the Radical Left, or Socialism over here in the USA, so be it. But I don't think America has seen true socialism or communism in practice.

but politics sooner rather than later in America is going to swing left. Hard left. Which is going to be a jolt to some since we're stuck on hard right at the moment.

[Alice11111]

47. We are to the right of the rest of the western world.

We could go to Canada or a lot of places. They have no where else to go...Russia. Hahaha

[Leith]

37. I Would Like to Join You

But I'm already there. We take turns bringing in snacks for our seditious meetings.

[tomp]

38. the problem is that what you described is not radical, or the "radical left.'

What you described are mainstream/majority positions and, thus, cannot be radical by definition.

It has been a particular bugaboo of mine that we not redefine classic political categories. The radical left is, basically, that part of the left that seeks to overthrow the government by force, i.e., communists, anarchists, some socialists, etc. Marches, demonstrations, boycotts, sit-ins, writing to political representatives...these are classic strategies and maneuvers of progressive people, the vast majority of americans, not of "radical leftists."

The more recalcitrant capitalism/imperialism becomes, the more it "radicalizes" ordinary progressive people, who just want ordinary improvements in their day to day lives. Most people want to accomplish this through peaceful political means. Some think history shows that will never happen and violent overthrow will be necessary.

The right would like to call the Clintons and Obama "radical leftists" or "leftists," or "socialists" and we cannot allow this as it is so dangerous. As it happens, today some knucklehead congressperson announced we should purge the government of "leftists." McCarthy anyone? Clearly, they thought they did not have to define the term and everyone would know what the meant and think this was normal. This is what happens when we let the right get away with labeling us. They're talking about people in government with ordinary progressive values and comparing them to communists as they did in the 50's and 60's, even though at the time, there were very probably a minuscule number of actual communists in the government. Remember, there had to be an anti-communist hysteria for imperialism to be able to move forward in its greed and lust for world domination.

When someone labels you, think carefully about whether you are willing to accept the label.

[KittyWampus]

40. None of us even know what post the OP is even referring to.

[Crunchy Frog]

59. I'm pretty sure I know which thread he's referring to. n/t

[Alice11111]

42. I don't think that is radical, or very left...just humane,

intelligent, common sense, and non discriminatory.

I've been called a "leftist" lately.
By: British surrogate mother- in- law, who voted for Brexit, and repeatedly chastises me 4 reading the Guardian; BF, also, Brexit, hates leftist Guardian or MSNBC, or leftist media, but considers self liberal, not leftist; my Texas friend, at women's march, who loves Meghan Kelly, and thinks she is the "smartest" news anchor ever (I just said, I'll give her that, she did call out DT); and my Repub brother. I wonder, is it just me? Seems I'm staying the same, and those around me are moving to the right. DT is farther right than anyone before.
Though DT has pushed me farther to the left, as did election 2000, Swiftboating, and several other things. Im still not radical left. Voted Hillary. I would have voted Bernie, if he had been the nominee. Hell, I would have campaigned for Jeb! to defeat this RADICAL RW momster.

[wordpix]

48. I was likened to a Nazi by a fellow Dem today in my town

This b/c I support gun control permit and registration bills (police can ask to see permit with probable cause is one and increasing gun reg. fee from $14/yr. to $60/yr, maybe less, is the other). This Dem in town went ballistic on an email. Guess he loves him the guns.

[HAB911]

67. Oh yeah

you can get slammed like that right here on DU about guns OR pro sports

TOO FUNNY

[betsuni]

49. This must be about comments in the "How the extreme left gave us Nixon, Bush and Trump"

post. I just finished reading it, but didn't notice anyone calling you radical left. I'll go check again, maybe I missed it.

[truebluegreen]

50. There are some who haven't a clue what "left" is

let alone radical left.

[mr_lebowski]

51. Pardon the French but I sure as fuck am NOT scared of it ...

Though I am seriously pondering whether it might not be time to GTFO of this hellhole Drumpf and Bannon are in the process of creating ...

[Lotusflower70]

52. Embrace it

If that is what is considered radical left, I will take it because I support all those things. I think some people use the word radical to make a person seem fanatical in this context. Most people now think of radical as equated to terroristic or threatening. And of course that applies. But when used as radical left it's supposed to be insulting. Although are we threatening to the current administration, that context is complimentary.

[brewens]

53. It's all about people that have it made that want us to be just democrat enough to make

sure they aren't put at risk in anyway. It has to be a choice of center right to alt-right. Make sure Goldman Sachs is happy. They had it covered both ways last election didn't they?

[RoadhogRidesAgain]

54. These are my exact same views aswell

I believe in an economic system that caters to the needs of the many over the needs of the few

I believe the government should step in and help all its citizens have health coverage

I believe in a complete secular government without any religious influence (abortion, religious discrimination) or any religious symbols.

I believe in pouring money into maintaining scientific research and protecting the environment

I believe in a society that doesn't discriminate anyone based on gender or race or anything else.

Those are my main core beliefs. Past that, I'm open minded on other views. I don't think the death penalty is bad as long as it's the correct person, and I don't like the push for gun control from the democrats.

[BzaDem]

55. Were you called "radical left" for holding the above positions?

If not, it seems like a straw man argument.

As for what is wrong with the term "radical left", a majority of Americans would vote against anyone claiming to be a radical leftist, regardless of the content of their policy positions (most of which aren't paid much attention to by most voters). It is more about "radical" than about "left."

[uriel1972]

56. I have held these positions for oooh 25 years at least...

Back then I was "Centre-Left" now... well guess what I'm a radical.

[brush]

57. Sign me up too.

[Cary]

60. The horror. The horror.

[alarimer]

64. Then I am too.

It is a point of pride with me. Hell, yes, I'm a radical, by these measures.

[m-lekktor]

68. It doesn't take much to be considered radical left on DU these days. nt

[liquid diamond]

70. People aren't JUST giving you shit for your political beliefs.

Your expectations become dangerous when you fuck over yourselves and the rest of the country. I'm pretty sure you are being called radical is because centrist democrats who actually win primaries (See Obama in 2008 and 2012 and Hillary in 2016) do not pass your purity tests. No extremist of the left has won a democratic primary since you do not have the numbers to do so. Some radicals sat out past elections since they are sick of "voting for the lesser of two evils" and our candidates being "republican lite". As a result just enough of you (not all, but you know who you are) sat out the election and made it possible for a monster like Donald Trump to become POTUS. That's what the other thread is about. There is nothing wrong with having lofty political goals as long as you are willing to compromise in our political system. That is just reality.

[NurseJackie]

71. Yes. Perfect. Nailed it!

[Fresh_Start]

75. +1 nt

nt

[brer cat]

87. +1 nt

[Jakes Progress]

93. You have the OP's number. +1

[Cary]

107. Perfect

Too bad the people who need to learn something don't want to listen.

[Hortensis]

152. Well put. In this case our "radicals" are very mainstream,

wandering not at all away from safety of the group--if defined by goals like the OP's.

It's their behaviors that separate out people prone to radicalism from others.

Once again, who eagerly soaked up and spread the lies the Hillary was stealing the election every time a majority of voters in a state chose her? This not mainstream behavior.

THAT kind of behavior and the conviction that THEIR ends justify whatever means needed to achieve them is a major characteristic of both the radical left and the reactionary right. There are plenty of others that have been on full display for months, including right here in this thread.

[liquid diamond]

154. They are acting stupid

as if they don't know what the fuck we are talking about. I don't buy it. Their types repeatedly threatened not to vote for Hillary. We've seen it here! It was allowed to go on for months. B.O.B they said, and now they wonder why we're blaming them for losing to trump. Fucking lol.

[ananda]

72. Me: love the radical left.

[Mrs. Ted Nancy]

73. JFK's thoughts on being a liberal

"If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.

John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage


Has "leftist" replaced "liberal" now?

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

74. That Overton Window

The Overton Window has been dragged far to the right, in recent decades, and it still seems to be moving in that direction. ShrubCo came along, and I thought, "Well, they can't get any more right wing than this, surely." But then there's Palin and the Tea Party. "Wow," I thought, "What a bunch of kooks. They can't possibly go more to the right, this time." But, no. Now we have Trumpists, the Alt-Right, the Neo-reactionaries, the Dark Enlightenment, and just on and on. It's like that Simpsons parody of Schoolhouse Rock. The Amendment-to-be is ratified, and the floodgates are opened for all the kooks. A bomb-throwing anarchist caricature runs up and breaks the fourth wall, going "Whoop whoop!" to the camera. The other side keeps rebranding itself as more and more extreme, and our culture keeps accommodating them, and the Overton Window just keeps moving in their direction.

Which means that pretty much all of us here might readily be called radical leftists by any random person-on-the-street. We're all in this together. I sorta wish our side could stop, with the fighting among ourselves.

Why are some scared of it? We lose and keep losing, the other side keeps winning, no matter how lunatic they become. That's scary. We're left looking for solutions, trying to figure out where the problem lies. We know our ideas are good, so WTF? Why do we keep losing? How much more to the right can they drag that Window? There's some scary stuff, here. I suspect they're afraid we'll keep losing and losing, with horrifying results for society. It is scary.

[Kentonio]

81. The window only moves rightwards..

Because when the GOP move right, we always have supposed 'centrists' insisting we have to also move right to keep up. Oh and if you question any of it, you're a naive radical lefty who is actually helping the other side. Meanwhile by us moving right too, we've actually legitimized the rightward slide of the other party in the past because things that are now Democratic policies like ACA were actually Republican ideas. But that's suddenly ok, because the right is just more extreme now. Really?

The position of many of us is that the right can suck it quite frankly, their insidious policies and ideology are vile, and if the left coalesce around some genuinely left wing policies then the public who spent years leaving political parties will return and support us.

Except some are determined to stop this. The only major media the left gets tends to be if we get a major success story like Sanders come along in a primary. Started out with next to no media attention and treated as a joke, built up great momentum and mobilized vast numbers of ordinary people to donate and vote. In any other organization that would be a clear success indicator and something that you'd build on to see how far you can take it. Not us, we say 'Well in this time limited contest where you started out with a vast disadvantage, you didnt win, so therefore your way is clearly wrong as we'll do it how we always have'.

[yurbud]

76. because they haven't figured out how to privatize & profit from some of those things?

[NastyRiffraff]

77. I've been called a oligarch-supporting Republican lover

somewhere on the internets. I forget where, or exactly what was said; otherwise I would have responded directly instead of whining in another place on the internets, like this forum. I've also been called a pinkie communist, a radical socialist, a b**ch and worse.

[NurseJackie]

82. It's not always easy to live in the REAL WORLD when surrounded by naive and delusional extremists...

... and people who do things like you've described (and worse). Keep the faith. Stay strong.


We're always #StrongerTogether, right?




#InternationalWomensDay
#IWD

[brer cat]

88. Nevertheless, she persisted.

[Cary]

108. I have whined about that, but I don't care what they call me

They can call me whatever as long as they don't interfere with Democrats winning.

Unfortunately they are hurting us.

[Blue_true]

122. I have found that it is typically very intolerant people that worry about what

they are called. I have been called many names, don't bother me because I am secure in my values and fight for them.

[Orsino]

78. Those aren't radical ideas...

...and you should challenge the false framing of anyone saying otherwise.

[Hortensis]

91. Well, I know I didn't see the other thread....

These listed here are all standard mainstream liberal positions. No one here could accuse THEM of being radical without accusing themselves. And probably wouldn't.

Wonder WHAT radical was the accusation about?

Radical can be a position outside the mainstream.

Radical can be a personality type prone to attitudes and behaviors outside the mainstream.

Moderates by personality can and often do support radical positions. It's not the position alone that makes someone radical.

Radicals by personality, in fact, often support very mainstream positions, radical only because they do it in "radical" ways, typically very passionate.

Btw, those on the ultra, extremist left, themselves a spectrum, can make radicals look darned mainstream, and often consider them just that. Like their less-than-admiring dismissal of Sanders' "revolution," to them hardly a deviation from mainstream corporatism.

[Jakes Progress]

94. There is more to it than the ideas stated.

No one called the OP radical because of the ideas written.

[Act_of_Reparation]

79. There are some who still think the Dems can only win through moderation.

The past thirty years have taught them nothing.

[BainsBane]

106. Moderation

Like the positions listed in the OP.

[katmondoo]

80. I was called a crazy liberal on Facebook

I am proud to be a radical left, I stand proudly with all of them

[RKP5637]

83. All sounds good to me! n/t

[BainsBane]

84. In practice, the distinction is less ideological

than about attitude and tactics. Politicians you might malign as centrist also believe what you listed, yet somehow that wasn't enough for some. And now we are faced with a presidency poised to destoy the agencies it has been charged with leading. But we are told it is worth enduring fascism to teach the Democratic Party (and their voters) a lesson. I am frankly stunned that anyone can look at what's happening today and direct their ire toward Democrats, particularly when those Democrats support the very issues those people claim to care about, yet work to undermine. I believe that actions, more than words, tell us what people truly are.

[brer cat]

95. "If you don't drink the Boone's Farm I brought to your wine tasting

you must hate lolcats." I grow so weary of these attempts to justify the indefensible by false framing, or throwing out all the good corn because one treasured kernel wasn't given top priority. It reminds me of those who declared that President Obama would be DOA to them if he didn't prosecute Bush-Cheney for war crimes.

[spanone]

86. K&R.. a badge of honor.

[Jakes Progress]

90. Radical left is defined by behavior, not beliefs.

None of those statements is radical left. But if someone is willing to allow republicans to win elections because some Democrat didn't meet that someone's level of commitment to the principles, that is radical left.

If someone ignores solidarity (our only weapon) to trash the Democrat who can win because they have fallen for the propaganda from he right and left about that candidate, then that someone is the radical left.

Me? I'm a socialist. Only way to be left of me is to join a commune. But I'm also in favor of getting the goals I want without harming millions of less privileged in order to do so.

[Exilednight]

99. I understand your point. But I would argue that no one

DU is arguing or justifying radical behaviour to accomplish our goals. No one has called for a violent overthrow of the government, attacks on conservatives or Republicans.

There is nothing wrong with debating ideas and pushing for reform and change within the party structure. Just once in my lifetime I would love to see a left leaning President who acts with the decisiveness of Republican presidents. I despise everything Trump stands for, and every policy he has come out with, but I grudgingly admire the swiftness of which he has enacted his policies.

[BainsBane]

105. You can't be serious?

He hasn't enacted policies. His singular "Policy" move was the Muslim ban, which he enacted with no regard to how it would be implemented or if it was even necessary for his stated goals. Then it was overturned by the courts.

He's made a big show of pretending to do things in order to satisfy his civicly illiterate supporters, but he has enacted far less than Obamacare did by this time. The issue is he knows as little about how government functions as his supporters and can't bother to learn. He makes an appearance of being a strongman but has proved himself completely incompetent.

Oh, he has sent ICE around to schools to rip apart families and to harass people (US citizens) driving within the borders of the US in a blatant violation of the 4th amendment. Is that what you so admire?

Obama signed the Lily Ledbetter law his first day in office. Trump only mentioned legislation yesterday with the DOA healthcare bill the House Republicans cooked up.

[Cary]

110. Yes, that was a truly amazing comment from a "liberal"

Unbelievable and I commend you for your patient correction.

[Exilednight]

115. You might want to look again.

He repealed Obama's transgender EO.

He cut environmental standards via EO.

He cut parts of the ACA with EOs.

Not to mention the 30 plus other executive orders he has issued.

He should be ridiculed for these acts, but he did it all in quick order.

[BainsBane]

136. Most of those EOs

do nothing. Some were idiotic: repeal two regulations for every one implemented. Sound and fury signifying nothing.

Funny how anxious you are to credit Trump for repealing Obama's EOs but not Obama for issuing them in the first place. Obama issued EOs because he had a GOP congress that blocked everything he did. Trump does them for two reasons: he hasn't the first clue about govt works and is still playing CEO; and he wants to make a display of being resolute. No one with any critical thinking skills or understanding of civics should fall for it, but Trump depends on a know-nothing culture with citizens taken in by display over substance.

[Exilednight]

149. two quick questions for you.

1. When did Obama issue his directive on the allowance of transgender students to use the bathroom they identify with?

2. When did Trump repeal it?

[BainsBane]

159. What is your point?

Trump is a better leader because trans issues became a major issue toward the end of Obama's term rather than the beginning? Is that supposed to be logical? Does contest enter nowhere into your thinking?

Why are you so much more impressed with taking away civil rights and implementing policies geared toward whitening the nation than equal pay for equal work? This really says a lot about your version of leadership. No, I don't think you'll ever find a wanna-be despot in the Democratic party who meets your standards of "leadership." Of that I am very grateful.

No wonder you took the accusation of being a radical leftist as an insult.

[Exilednight]

160. Answer the question and you will see my point.

[BainsBane]

161. Your point is illogical

and, at least in my edited version of the post which you may have missed, I explained why.

Are you mad at Obama because he didn't colonize Mars in his first 100 days too?

[Exilednight]

166. IF Obama had even issued this order 60 days earlier

Trump would not have been able to unilaterally roll it back, it would have to go through Congress and a bill would have to be passed to repeal it.

If he had done this in his first hundred days, there would have been a history of litigation and we could have had decent odds of this still being part of title IX.

[BainsBane]

162. Justice Souter's comments on democracy apply here

“I don’t worry about our losing republican government in the United States because I’m afraid of a foreign invasion. I don’t worry about it because I think there is going to be a coup by the military as has happened in some of other places. What I worry about is that when problems are not addressed, people will not know who is responsible. And when the problems get bad enough, as they might do, for example, with another serious terrorist attack, as they might do with another financial meltdown, some one person will come forward and say, ‘Give me total power and I will solve this problem.’

“That is how the Roman republic fell. Augustus became emperor, not because he arrested the Roman Senate. He became emperor because he promised that he would solve problems that were not being solved.

“If we know who is responsible, I have enough faith in the American people to demand performance from those responsible. If we don’t know, we will stay away from the polls. We will not demand it. And the day will come when somebody will come forward and we and the government will in effect say, ‘Take the ball and run with it. Do what you have to do.’

“That is the way democracy dies. And if something is not done to improve the level of civic knowledge, that is what you should worry about at night.”
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/souter-warned-trump-candidate-prescient-remarks

Trump is the result of such a citizenry.

[Cary]

109. You admire the swiftness of which Trump has enacted his policies?

Pfeh.

[Jakes Progress]

124. Are you eight?

We would all love a real lefty president who had a giant mandate. But that isn't happening anytime soon.

My point was that if you acted in any way to keep Hillary from being elected - didn't vote, voted third party, trashed Clinton after about March - you count as a radical leftist. That would be one who shot down any hope of getting a decent SC, immigration reform, or expanding health care just because you were too noble for the room. A radical leftist would rather lose to the nazi's than compromise their self-importance.

Study the rise of the union movement. And it's demise.

[Exilednight]

133. You make a lot of assumptions that aren't bases in reality.

Did I vote? Yes

Did I vote third party? No.

Did I vote for Hillary? Yes.

Before making assumptions, it's best to ask the question.

[BainsBane]

139. Then why even post this?

You listed a series of beliefs that any centrist Democrat holds. Why pretend there is something radical about liberalism?

Radical leftists are revolutionaries: not Pepsi revolutionaries or so-called political revolutionaries but actual social revolutionaries like Lenin, Mao, Fidel Castro, and Che. They are communists or anarchists. They had an ideological center, often tied to Marxism, or before the 1920s Bakunin or Kropotkin. In the US they were systematically imprisoned, purged, and deported. Today's nihilistic white bourgeoisie that pretends to be the left doesn't qualify.

[NurseJackie]

144. ...

[Cary]

167. I notice your omission of sowing discord and discontent

[Jakes Progress]

174. Everyone makes assumptions.

None of the three you make here are radical. Why did you claim to be radical? Did you leave out some things? Why did you even bother to post then? Like to stir up shit?

Did you contribute to Hillary's defeat by spreading the BS about her that kept coming from third party types (many supported by russians who had a desire to see her lose - the same who wanted trump to win)? Did you attend her rallies, contribute to her campaign, refrain from bitching that she cheated, canvas for her?

My assumptions were based on your rhetoric and your behavior. So go ahead and tell my you never write based on assumptions. I've seen your posts.

[BainsBane]

138. That crowd doesn't deserve the designation of radical leftist

Last edited Fri Mar 10, 2017, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

They pretend to be leftier than thou but work to bring about the opposite. In my opinion they are collaborators with fascism. Fascism is as fascism does.

[Jakes Progress]

176. They are too self-absorbed

to know that they are being used as tools.

[BainsBane]

177. And self

or ego, is the basis of their politics.

[JI7]

163. there is NOTHING to admire about what Trump has done. fuck that, and i don't consider you far left

or the left at all.

[Cary]

111. That's it exactly

[G_j]

96. Isn't "Radical Left" is a RW dog whistle?

not here I guess... This is why I don't bother much with DU anymore.

[yuiyoshida]

100. Can I be too?

its better then being called a few Racial names...I have heard lately.

[Turbineguy]

101. Radical left.

Yeah, we used to call that right of center. And what's in charge now, we used to call the "lunatic fringe".

[vlyons]

102. I'm not scared

I'll even own up to being a socialist in the Bernie Sanders mold. In this day and age, radical means replacing the current Republican-Trump klepocracy with democracy.

[LOL Lib]

103. +1

I never knew it but I guess I'm radical left. I had always hoped I was a more balanced lefty but whatevs! I will wear it proudly. Names don't affect me in the least!

[Rex]

104. The centrists are scared.

They lost so many seats that it is only natural for them to whine and make excuses.

They are a tiny but vocal group here, easily ignored and totally outnumbered as you can see in your own thread.

Best to just laugh at them and move on.

[Cary]

112. Move on, please

And take that same attitude with you.

[Rex]

126. No thanks, deal with it?

Sorry if reality hurt your feelings.

[Cary]

169. I am dealing with it.

We have Trump as president because some people insist that they must be contrarians, and contrive all manner of nonsense to justify that.

If you're attitude is anything but "vote Democratic" than you are part of the problem. It's that simple. You can duck and weave any way you wish, but they turned out to vote for Trump and for.whatever reason we didn't turn out.

I really think we would be better off if all lilly livered alleged Democrats became Republicans and sowed their discord and discontent over there.

[Jakes Progress]

125. Keep on working for a 9 Scalia SC.

With this kind of shit, you can realize that dream.

[Rex]

127. Like I said to the last guy, deal with it or not.

Reality doesn't care what you want.

[Jakes Progress]

131. You aren't even in shouting distance of reality.

Grow up and study. Read up on the union movement.

Then go out and meet some of the people your "radical" actions have destroyed. The ones who are avoiding reality are the ones who helped put trump in office. Comfortable, secure ideologues like susan sarandon who wrap their egos in silk sheets and pat themselves on the back for a job well done. They kept that nasty old centrist out of the white house. Of course they won't be separated from their children and sent out the country, they won't be attacked by racist police who now have carte blanche to fulfill their need to hurt, they won't be denied health care or a living wage or the ability to marry whom they desire.

But they do have to worry about reality. They know what they have done, so they go on the "boards" to claim their own nobility and blame others for their actions. Anything to deflect their guilt, for if they don't feel guilty for the pain and misery they have brought, they must be ghouls.

[Rex]

156. Wow you sound so self-righous with all that.

Reality walked all over you this last election, go ahead an ignore it. I could care less and will move on with the other millions of people.

Have fun with your grand delusions!

[Jakes Progress]

175. Stung a little. Didn't it?

If your reality is that there is a massive hoard of militant revolutionaries ready to throw off the yoke of capitalism and rise up in mass to bring about a socialist America, you are nuts. There lie the delusions.

Reality is that Hillary won the election. She would have won the electoral vote had putin, comey, and a host of delusion lefties not done their best to persuade the country that Hillary wasn't who she really was.

So, if you spent any time trashing Hillary after March 1 of last year, you are a trump enabler. If you think that Bernie had a chance in hell of winning, you are naive and need to get out into the world more. There aren't millions on your side. You were a product used by the media and the right to seize office.

Have fun with your denial. You seem to be able to ignore the pain and suffering of a lot of people as long as you get to feel so smugly grand about sticking to your ideals - regardless of how it will hurt others. Shame.

[BillyBobBrilliant]

114. Oh, Hell

They ain't seen nothin' yet!

[warmfeet]

116. Radical lefty here, as well.

I am proud to be among fellow lefties.

[Jakes Progress]

128. Did you stay home on election day?

Did you do your best to convince your friends that they shouldn't vote for Hillary?

Did you vote for one of the third party candidates?

If not, you may want to watch what group you want to claim membership in. Lefty? Always. Radical? To what end?

[warmfeet]

178. I voted for Hillary.

Everyone I know, voted for Hillary. I originally supported Bernie, but he did not get the parties nomination. Therefore, I voted for Hillary.

[Jakes Progress]

179. Then I would't call you

a radical leftist.

I'm a socialist. I supported Hillary because I knew that Bernie was a media construction and didn't have a chance of winning. I liked the stuff he said, but it seems I wanted what he said he wanted more than he did.

I live in Texas. So, though all my friends voted for Hillary, most of the people I know voted for the asshole.

If we don't come to understand that any Democrats were played in the last election just as badly as republicans, we sill see nine scalias on the Supreme Court. Had the "Bernie or Bust" people voted for Hillary, or if the delusional jerks who voted third party voted for Hillary, or if the dupes who couldn't bring themselves to vote for "the monster Hillary" voted for Hillary -- if any of those had happened, we would not be in the mess we are now.

We won the election but lost the electoral college even with comey and the Russian high command and the fox propaganda machine working 24/7. We don't need to go off the rail. We can't get the deplorable insane people to vote for us. We just have to get the sane people to pay attention.

[warmfeet]

180. Agreed.

I have been called a radical leftist, but I think I am a rational leftist. I am a human that cares about other humans - pretty radical I guess.

[Jakes Progress]

181. Yep.

Like many terms, "radical leftist" has a meaning far different than the words mean individually. I like the term rational leftist. And I agree to be a leftist and rational is a radical thing.

[pnwmom]

117. All those things would apply to almost everyone here. So what would make someone

part of the radical left is to refuse to support Democrats, like Hillary or President Obama, who sometimes have to make compromises in order to accomplish anything.

[TNLib]

120. Me too but I consider myself centrist!

Not sure why anyone on DU would call you that. I thought all democrats on DU stood for those basic values. But then again I haven't been on DU for a few years so maybe things have changed.

[oldcynic]

121. She always votes for communists...

A friend in Japan once told me she votes communist not because she is one, but because they are always nipping at the heels of the establishment and keeping them on track. Wish we actually had some radical lefties.

[mvd]

137. Your positions are just common sense

They are considered left in this country, but they are where our party's priorities should be. I speak out a lot about the corporate part of our party. I consider being too radical more about behavior than thoughts. Democrats/progrsssives who are so disenchanted that they would even talk nice about Trump are too radical. Democrats/progressives who demand 100% purity are too radical - I'd pretty much have to elect myself to get that. I support a living wage for everyone - even those who do not work. I think that's compassionate. I don't want anyone to suffer from hunger and lack of decent shelter. Only ideas like everyone must make the same income or supporting actual Communism are too much for me.

[Marthe48]

143. I'd say, THANKS for noticing!

or 'I guess I am!'

[BlueJac]

145. Me too!

You can not fix stupid!

[TSIAS]

148. There's a three pronged debate going on

The center, who can now be called the "Alt-Center", have defined a new group called the "Alt-Left".

Alt Center: Al Giordano, Jonathan Chait, Peter Dauo, center-left Democrats

Alt Left (as defined by Alt Center): Dudebros, socialists, third party sympathizers. Notable examples: Adam H. Johnson, Katie Halper, Todd Hitler (Twitter user). Common trait is support for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primary.

I'd argue it's not as much about ideology as it is about a continuation of the Sanders/Clinton primary battle.

[N77VG]

150. I agree with every one of those positions, and I support the right to keep and

bear arms.

For that I have been called

troll
liar
DINO
Trumpist
asshole

and many other somewhat impolite things.

sigh

[warmfeet]

151. Bear Arms.

[link:|

[BlancheSplanchnik]

155. ROFL!!!!!!

Love it!

[oldcynic]

158. LOL n/t

[colsohlibgal]

157. Guilty

But then I guess Republican Dwight Eisenhower was a radical lefty too, what with his over 90% top tax brackets each year he was in office. Wonder if any of the right wing crazies know that is how we built the Interstate Highway System they love to use.

I often wonder what Ike would think about his party today. My guess is he would do what a lot of Eisenhowers and Rockefellers have done, switch to a democrat.

[still_one]

164. no, you are not, but those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary

in the General Election, by either voting third party, or not voting sure are

[Blue_Tires]

168. Hey, I've been permanently branded as a neocon Pentagon shill

just for pointing out the B747-sized holes in the "official" Snowden-Greenwald narrative... And since time has proven me mostly right, all of a sudden nobody wants to talk about that topic anymore...

I've also been labeled an imperialist warmonger for daring to point out that people like Assad and Gaddafi had very ugly human rights records...

I've also been labeled as "establishment" (whatever the fuck that means) for supporting Hillary in the general after supporting Sanders early in the primary...


BLUF: Deal with it...

[emulatorloo]

171. EVERYONE at DU supports those positions. I doubt anyone attacked you

for holding those positions.

There's some justifiable anger here about privileged BOBs and Susan Sarandon-style "leftists" who lied about Democrats and did their best to help Republicans elect Trump.

Since that is not who you are, probably not worth worring too much about a name that doesn't apply to you.

All of the positions you listed are mainstream positions for DU'ers.