I've finally figured out normal white people.

[Tobin S.]

I'm a complete weirdo so it took me a while to sort this out. If you are posting on this site, you probably aren't normal either. Either that or you are a normal white person who is trolling. Okay, here's my great epiphany.

Donald Trump is a normal white person. Mike Pence? Breathtakingly normal for a white guy. Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, Steve Bannon? Normal, normal, normal. Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh? Absolutely posifuckingtively normal for white people. I'm a truck driver and I drive around all night listening to truckers on the CB radio. Most truckers are white men from rural America. They are happier than pigs in shit to be represented by a white man again. Politically speaking, nothing was more terrible to them than being represented by a black man. Well, perhaps the possibility of being represented by a woman. It didn't matter what Obama did or what Hillary might have done. In the normal white person's mind they are fundamentally flawed and can do no good. Normal white women think like that, too. Either that or go along to get along with their normal white husbands.

What I mean by normal is that probably 70% of white people think like Donald Trump, or what Trump is sadistically portraying. They are social conservatives. They think white people are better than everyone else. Take that to heart.

So it doesn't matter that Obama made it possible for many of them to afford health insurance. It doesn't matter that he didn't get any of their children killed in a war. Trump will take their health insurance away, plunge us into another recession, and start another slaughter in the Middle East somewhere, and, in their minds, he will still be a far better president than Obama. Because he's a white man. Period.

That's what it means to be a normal white person. The sooner you godless commie weirdos accept that, the sooner we can make the right moves that will limit Trump to one term.

[kentuck]

1. I don't think I would generalize that far?

There are many factors involved besides the color of the skin, in my opinion.

[Tobin S.]

2. I doubt it.

[Hortensis]

239. You should educate yourself. This post is really

Last edited Sat Mar 4, 2017, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)

insulting and out of line. 70% of whites are "social conservatives?" Total nonsense.

However, most of the polling on this is highly misleading as almost all polls ask people to self-identify, instead of conducting expensive testing for true orientation. Since self identification correlates strongly with voting behavior, pollsters are interested in these numbers, even though they are very inaccurate in determining distribution of personality types, such as social conservative. Most notably, after 40 years of mass right-wing villification of liberals, liberals chronically and often drastically under-"identify." However, EVEN those inaccurate numbers do not come close to supporting your very insulting allegation.

Probably somewhere around 20% of Americans would be considered predominantly social/cultural/religious conservatives, and those are distributed roughly equally across all racial groups, blacks and the rest. Social conservatism is not a white phenomenon, but a human one.

Other conservatives would be predominantly traditional/temporal and economic, and the lot of them comprise roughly half the population. As we see every election these very ideologically divided days.

Very interestingly, cultures tend to be more conservative in hot climates and as they are closer to the equator; and conservatism tends to be stronger in individuals whose ancestors came from hot climates or closer to the equator. The same effects hold for liberalism somewhat stronger in cooler climates. This also does not support your...theory.

I have not read analysis of how global warming increases might be expected to affect the planet's political orientations, but much of the United States is very hot these days, and the hottest regions tend to be more politically conservative.

Btw, Avi Tuschman's "Our Political Nature" brings together findings from various academic perspectives on this.

[snooper2]

270. Where did you go after posting this drivel?

[we can do it]

40. I agree with you.

[SharonAnn]

130. Living in East TN, it seems your findings are the same as mine.

Very discouraging. Even well-educated people seem to think that whites are above all others.

[treestar]

145. OP does not. Gives a percentage.

Whether that is accurate I don't know, but the percentage who voted for Donald of white people is over 50%? Obviously white liberals exist, but they are a minority of white people.

[brush]

186. Thank God for the godless commie weirdos here on DU and elsewhere. POCs and the rest...

of the country would be so screwed if not for their counterweight to the right wing crazies.

We need all the allies we can get, especially now with trump and the repugs in ascendance.

[heaven05]

229. of course you wouldn't

as many here wouldn't. It still doesn't negate the huge rec I'm giving this because of the historical precedent of ameriKKKan racism and hate that makes everything said in OP true. 66+million voting for the boy-potus puppet of bannon and miller makes it true also. David duke shit said he loved this POS boy-potus, yet no strong refutation of that support because prezident bannon said not to do it.

[Takket]

3. 63% of white males voted for 45

But that surprised no one. The real shocker that swing the election was 52% of white women going for Him. Everyone assumed Clinton had the female vote across the board.

[wishstar]

22. Comey's interference swung millions of white women over to Trump after they had leaned for Hillary

According to poll results I heard on NPR radio right before the election, a significant percentage of women who were offended by Trump's behavior towards women and planned to vote for Hillary, were apparently influenced to switch to Trump after Comey email hit the news. The polls taken of white non-college ed. women in 35 to 50ish age group shortly before and after the Comey action showed that Hillary's small lead among this group evaporated and around 10% shifted to Trump. In my opinion, another factor in play was the late push by many religious leaders and churches to convince their followers to overlook Trump's personal faults and behavior.

NBC's poll last week showed 58% of white men currently approve of Trump while only 44% of white women-

[nikibatts]

27. That fact that her lead was small to begin with proves these are "normal white women."

Really hopeless for that many women to be against another women and for a man like 45.

[whathehell]

67. Bullshit...What it proves is that women vote for similar reasons as men..

I liked the idea of a woman in the White House, but was more con earned about their policies and character, and I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general.

[radical noodle]

247. Lots of white women were put off by

a black man in the White House. I heard a lot from those I know about what amounted to, in their eyes, a war on white. In other words they were losing some of their white privileges.

[Squinch]

34. Then that was a very, very easy swing. What did Comey say that was such an issue for those

white women? Nothing. Another email source was found? All that did was give people an excuse to swing away from her. (PS, I am a white woman.)

Those white women who swung because of that were having problems voting for her in the first place. And if you look carefully and tune out the noise, there was really no reason to have a problem voting for her in this election. Unless you had a sexism/racism problem.

This doesn't disprove the OP's point.

[Chemisse]

85. I don't think you can underestimate the impact of Comey's announcement.

It was very, very discouraging. If the two candidates had been comparable (such as during a primary), I would have swung to the other one over that.

To undereducated white women, who are likely surrounded by Trump-voting men, the two candidates may have each had their own appeal, so it wasn't a big jump to switch.

[Squinch]

90. I agree that his effect was enormous. It seemed to stop and reverse the direction of the momentum.

But if there had been no racism or sexism involved in the decisions of those swing voters, it would have had less of an impact.

[we can do it]

103. I think that's a stretch. The Hillary bashing was nonstop. Her credibility was always questioned.

[Chemisse]

107. Clearly anyone who voted for Trump had no problem with racism or sexism.

And that is a generous statement.

[we can do it]

141. It did exactly that.

[mountain grammy]

126. What Comey's interference did was embolden the Hillary haters even more,

as if they weren't already at Defcon 1. When comey did his bit, three white women I knew who said they were "undecided" say this was the last straw for them... Bullshit! On the fence meant on the trump train, which is where the fools were all along.

[we can do it]

138. This exactly. It was evident even here.

[BlueMTexpat]

77. The high percentage of white women

who voted for Herr Gropenfuhrer shocked me more than anything else. I didn't expect much from "normal" white men, as described in the OP. IMO, the OP is pretty spot on about white males who are Trump supporters or enablers, certainly about those who are STILL supporting him.

But the percentage of white women who SHOULD have known better - and who STILL defend that total POS - is very disheartening.

[Squinch]

91. I was floored by that. That was like a betrayal.

[mountain grammy]

143. It was a betrayal.

[BlueMTexpat]

171. I still feel that

betrayal. Thank heavens that our sisters of color came through for us all. Let us NEVER forget that!

[whathehell]

210. You have to remember that, on the whole, women are concerned with the same issues men are --

the economy, national security, etc and that the MAJORITY of college educated white women voted for Hillary.

[Squinch]

214. Yes, but the majority of white women overall voted for Trump. I am ashamed of my cohort.

[whathehell]

226. By a small margin..

I would suggest that your "cohort" are the college educated women who voted for Hillary, but if you want to do the hairshirt and ashes thing, knock yourself out

[Squinch]

227. So kind of you to offer your permission for my thoughts.

[whathehell]

234. Glad you're pleased, but I'm clearly unable to "permit" or deny anything to anyone here.

Have a nice day.

[Squinch]

252. I agree that you are unable to.

[whathehell]

257. Then why did you state otherwise?

[Squinch]

260. I didn't. I stated that you offered permission, which you did. I certainly never thought that

you had any ability to grant me permission to do anything.

You offered me permission to have my thoughts. Even though we both know you have no control over my thoughts. Funny, really.

[whathehell]

92. The majority of college educated white women did NoT vote for him

and of my a very slim majority of all white women -- 51 0percent -- did. Even that, though.

[moonscape]

167. And the majority of single white women didn't either. n/t

[whathehell]

200. Exactly.

[BlueMTexpat]

170. That is a comfort ..

but still.

[mnhtnbb]

132. Clinton did get 54% of ALL women voting--but not enough of them were non-white

to make up for the large percentage of white women who voted for Trump.

As a 66 year old white woman, I still have a very hard time wrapping my head around that one. For the life of me, I don't understand it. I just
found Trump to be such a completely awful person--such a misogynist--that I just don't understand how women my age--who have lived through
years when sexual harassment was completely ok on the job--to want to put a nasty pussy-grabbing a$$hole in the office of President where
female children are going to grow up being told that kind of behavior and attitude is ok.

I really believe this country is seriously fu*ked up. This last election brought it home. There are millions and millions of people in this country
who are racist and sexist and proud of it, or don't care if they are identified with a racist, sexist President. Shame on them.

[BlueMTexpat]

173. I am wholeheartedly in agreement

with you!

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

175. Of the ones that voted

We will never know how about the many, many white people who didn't vote.

[heaven05]

238. this nt

[Lotusflower70]

277. Not surprising

Especially if those white women are connected to the white men that voted for 45. There is some reasoning in that line of thinking. I didn't assume Clinton had a female voice across the board. She certainly turned off young women voters especially with Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright. That was another example of taking things for granted. I would also state that some women, particularly white women were not ready for or open to the idea of a woman President.

[caroldansen]

4. You sound like an angry man. I understand to a point where you are coming from but you're wrong!

The people you described as so called "normal" are republicans. They cannot speak for us and NEVER WILL. I understand that to you it is literally a question of black or white, but you're wrong. This is NOT about black or white. This is strictly about love and hate, regardless of race, color or religion.

[tobefree]

26. Yep

It reads like classic projection.

[Squinch]

30. No. Tobin is not wrong. As a white woman I wish he was, but he isn't. The numbers bear out

what he is saying.

If a person voted for Trump, they necessarily had to be harboring either overt or unexamined racism and sexism.

Trump won handily among white voters. Over 70% of white people without college, somewhere between 50% and 65% of all other groups of white people. He only lost among college educated white women.

And then there is the point about the progressive split into two groups, one of which thinks "social justice issues" is of primary importance, and one of which thinks we need to pursue economic justice and hope social justice happens in the process.

"Social justice issues" is just another word for "civil rights." If you think that economic justice is going to bring about civil rights, you are being willfully ignorant and you aren't paying attention.

Nope. Tobin is right. Sad as that is.

[tobefree]

52. Accuracy

The tendency to lump all the population into these observations bothers me. Nearly half the registered voters didn't vote. Your analogies are improperly applied to the whole when the numbers are only representative of a subset.

[Squinch]

57. And as I have said elsewhere in this thread: those who didn't vote watched Trump for a year, every

single day, on all news outlets, spewing the most vile kinds of racism and sexism. There was no way they could not have known who he was. And yet they were not frightened enough by that display to extend the effort to pull a lever to stop him from spreading his hate as President.

They are not quite as culpable as the ones who voted for him, but they are very very close.

So if that number is half of registered voters, than the number of racist, sexist white people is much larger than the OP is claiming.

[tobefree]

79. Maybe.....

Maybe not. Your comments don't allow for the size of that subset that was simply convinced the asswipe stood no chance of being elected. The lazy voter is lazy above all else. That doesn't mean, statistically, that you can make assumptions and lump them into one's thinking where ever it suits the point one is making.

[Squinch]

83. I accept the point of the lazy voter. But even there, that indicates a certain lack of

outrage over his outrageous and obvious racism and sexism. After watching him for a year, could anything have stopped you from wanting to cast your vote against his hatreds?

But I still maintain that we CAN lump the majority of white voters into the "racist and sexist" category. The vote for Trump is, in my book, proof.

[whathehell]

211. What about all the PoC that didn't bother to vote or who voted for Trump?

Are you going to condemn THEM for their "lack of outrage" too?

Nah..I didn't think so.

[Squinch]

212. Yes, of course I am. They saw the same thing that you and I saw, and it was not enough for them

to do anything to stop Trump.

And "All the POC who voted for Trump" wasn't very much. 13% of black men and 4% of black women.

[whathehell]

231. Sorry, but PoC include Hispanics too

and varying reports have them voting Trump, by about 30.percent, a large number considering that Trump not only directly insulted them, but they were the most threatened as well, given the deportation stuff. They, added to the Blacks who voted Trump, could have made a difference.

[Squinch]

232. Yep. But either their racism or sexism was so strong that it overrode even their own safety.

[whathehell]

235. Could be, so I guess it's not just us evil, or, as the OP believes,

"normal" white people who are to blame, is it?

[Squinch]

254. The OP never said it was. Saying that the majority of white people did the wrong thing

does not have anything to do with whether other groups also did the wrong thing.

But the fact remains that most white people did the wrong thing.

[whathehell]

256. Um, that's not what the OP said

Substituting the word ""normal for "most", he basically says most white people are racist, not that they "did the wrong thing".

I think that's a bigoted view, and many on the thread seem to agree with me.

[Squinch]

258. OK, then I'll amend my statement: the fact that there are racists and sexists in other groups does

not change the fact that most white people proved that they were racists and sexists when they voted for Trump.

But the fact remains that most white people proved that they were racists and sexists when they voted for Trump. And what the OP is saying is that most white people proved they were racists and sexists when they voted for Trump. And that is true.

And popularity is never a good measure of what is correct or right. After all, in many places the majority of people voted for Trump.

[whathehell]

259. Ok, then I will restate my opinion -- one shared by most -- that this election was complicated and

about more than race. That is all I have to say on the matter. Again ( and finally), enjoy the day.

[Squinch]

261. I agree. It was about racism AND sexism.

[whathehell]

263. Lol..

Enjoy the hairshirt.

[yardwork]

198. +1

[heaven05]

242. 69+million Rw trumpchump voters

ARE NOT a subset. It was decency in americans vs racist, sexist thought among that "subset" of ameriKKKans. Who's in the driver seat with their finger on the button?

[whathehell]

96. Nope, and your figures are disputed

by other statistics that show 51 percent of white women overall voted Trump, not 70 percent.

[Squinch]

112. No, not disputed. We may be using different sources but my numbers don't necessarily disagree with

what you are saying.

Here's what I said:

Over 70% of white people without college, somewhere between 50% and 65% of all other groups of white people. He only lost among college educated white women

I don't have a number for white women overall, but your number agrees with the "somewhere between 50% an 65% of all other groups of white people"

I'm sure we can both find sources that give different percentages. But the overall message of all those sources will be the same: white people overall went for Trump in big numbers, and in some cross sections of white people Trump's lead was enormous.

[whathehell]

122. The OP didn't even bother with with stats or science..

As he says downtrend, it was just a "personal bunch". Uh huh, exactly, I'd guess, what many of those of the "bigoted" Trump voters used.

[whathehell]

146. First of all, I disagree that Trump's win was all about racism. The educated conclusion,

even apart from possible Russian interference, is it was more complicated than that. Actual interviewers with a majority of Trump voters shows a deep concern for economic issues and a distrust of Hillary Clinton.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

179. They knowingly voted...

They knowingly voted for a racist, anti-semitic. Islamophobic, nativistic, xenophobic, and authoritarian bigot. That they might have had other reasons to vote for him is of no moment. Even wasting a vote on Stein or Gary Johnson was more morally defensible.

It reminds me of the scene in Judgment At Nuremberg where Spencer Tracy's character is trying to find out what made the ordinary Germans of that era tick. This couple sheepishly volunteered that "Hitler did some good things." There's your nominal Drumpf voter in a proverbial nutshell.

[whathehell]

196. Then you probably should ask why a full thirty three percent of Hispanic women voted for Trump

Hispanics being a group Trump insulted DIRECTLY.

In addition, you may want to ask why quite a few who voted for Obama in '08 and '12 voted for Trump in '16.

and why more Blacks (6% of Black women) voted for Trump than Romney. People are frequently more complicated than we imagine.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

201. Some GLTBTQ people and Muslims voted for him too...

They ignored his bigotry because there believed there was something in it for them. Every single one of them voted for a bigot regardless of his or her motivations, save for the few who were non compos mentis.

[JI7]

222. those hispanics are bigoted against other groups.

[whathehell]

225. That may be, but the fact remains that they were the most directly insulted

and, arguably, even the most threatened by deportation, so I'm not sure that is a valid conclusion.

[JI7]

248. and most hispanics did not vote for him

[whathehell]

249. No, I would think not

[Vilis Veritas]

135. What if you include white people who did not vote?

What does that percentage look like?

[Squinch]

177. Well, what do you think it means if you watch a person spew racial and sexist hatred every

hour of every day for a year and then you can't be bothered to go and pull a lever to prevent that person from becoming President.

I'd say that shows a strong tolerance for the racial and sexist hatred.

So from where I sit, it makes the percentages look even more racist and sexist.

[Vilis Veritas]

191. Sorry I disagree.

[Squinch]

193. OK.

[yardwork]

195. As a middle aged white woman, I have to disagree with you.

This election proved that far too many U.S. citizens carry a deep belief that white males are superior to women and people of color. Even many women believe this. Even some people of color believe this. Trump's campaign appealed to those deep-seated fears and resentments.

There is no way to rationalize Trump's campaign as anything other than an appeal to white supremacy. The Latinos and other people of color who voted for him did so because they hoped to gain from the oppression of "other" people.

We can't ignore the clear split in the polls. A large majority of white men voted for Trump. A large majority of people of color - who suffer more than their white counterparts from economic distress - voted against him.

This was not about economics. This was about race-based resentments and fears, delivered to people's Facebook pages.

[agenasolva]

251. White people are a huge problem for this country. I say this as a white person too.

[heaven05]

240. love and hate, really?

Yeah you might be right hating a PoC does negate love. But on what level does that negating start? Hate for themselves? Hate for an AA who just wants equality? Hate for an independent woman who would tell a trumplover, to hell with trump? Does a white supremacist/nationalist point to just a love hate paradigm? It is just black and white for the RW, whites hating PoC even those surrogate liking the boots of boy-potus puppet, prezident bannon and miller with advisors david the KKK duke and alec the infowars jones. It is just black and white.

[bluedye33139]

5. About 70% respond to White Power talk

I have noticed that about 7 out of 10 white people seem to be susceptible to white supremacist jargon. It's one reason people were so excited in the Democratic primary about having a new Progressive Movement that would not be involved with so-called "identity politics."

[Drahthaardogs]

9. 85% of statistics are made up on the spot

There is no science behind this. You made it up.

[bluedye33139]

10. I did not refer to science

I was talking about a personal hunch or observation, much like the original post.

If you thought I was making a scientific claim, you are 100% wrong. Thanks for the comment.

[Drahthaardogs]

11. When you start to quantity observation

It implies there is at least some rudimentary level of investigation. This was just your opinion. You made the numbers up

[bluedye33139]

12. Awesome

Your point would be pretty legitimate I suppose, but if I look at your post history would I not see you pulling numbers out of the air also?

What's that about one out of six discussions belonging in general discussion on Democratic Underground? I would suggest you did not base that number upon scientific study, you awesome scientist you.

[Drahthaardogs]

13. Probably not.

I am a toxicologist. I am pretty careful about throwing statistics around...

And on edit, yeah I actually COUNTED the posts and calculated a number.

But you get the Gladys Kravitz award for post stalkings

[bluedye33139]

17. don't know who that is

But I thank you for your kind and well-intentioned words. Having such good people around me is an awesome experience, and I thank you for the light you brought into my life.

[Demit]

29. LOL I got the reference & it's 100% on point.

[bluedye33139]

117. I'm sure it's hilarious

And don't worry, I will not click on your name as I have been told that this is some kind of violation of norms.

[whathehell]

114. Um, you do realize that "personal hunches" have near zero credibility, right?

"Personal bunches", rather than FACTS, are what the bigoted and uneducated rely on.

[bluedye33139]

118. Take this up with the original post

I responded to a post stating 70% of white Americans we're comfortable with racism. I repeated this and supported it and you don't like it. Good for you.

[whathehell]

123. Lol..

That's exactly the kind of "substantive" response I'd expect from you.

[bluedye33139]

134. I'd be happy to ignore white racism to discuss theories of knowledge

But I don't know you, didn't invite a discussion of intuitive versus empirical knowledge, and am wondering why theories of knowledge and discussions of statistical science and qualitative versus quantitative research are more important than the discussion of race and white attitudes toward non-white people.

[whathehell]

153. Lol, you would first need to realize that no legitimate discussion of racism ( or most anything)

occurs outside of a framework of knowledge. Otherwise, it's just an airing of unsupported opinions -- not a "discussion" at all.

[we can do it]

142. Personal hunches instead of facts elected nmp45.

[whathehell]

147. Bingo!

Apparently, the poster has yet to make that connection.

[we can do it]

149. !

[whathehell]

154. Back at ya..

[MountCleaners]

28. Many RW memes have white supremacist origins

I've tracked some of the memes found on FB and Twitter, and some of them have originated with white supremacists. They LOVE it when they can get a "normie" to re-post their crap!

[bluedye33139]

58. The past ten years have seen a normalization of White Power/White Identity ideas in the

general population. White folks in rural areas have been socialized to believe that "White people are the most discriminated against class in the history of the world" and other weird things. It's just a sad process. Very sad stuff.

[whathehell]

73. Um, no..Where have you "noticed" this? I'd say you either live in a very bigoted area

or your perceptions are skewered by prejudice.

[bluedye33139]

78. Thanks. That's a really helpful comment.

[whathehell]

88. I hope so, although, in fact, it was actually a question...

One you can't seem to answer.

[whathehell]

255. Um, that's "opinion" not"fact".

You might want to learn to distinguish between the two and express each accordingly.

[ck4829]

6. Makes sense

I just hope it's not about 70%.

[whathehell]

157. 68 percent of Non-educated white MEN --

-- They're not the only white 'people'-- voted for Trump. As Michael Moore pointed out, seven million MORE voters, many I'd have to assume ars white, voted for neither Hillary OR Trump, but for Jill.Stein or the Libertarian party. This election was anything but a simple matter of race.

[Saboburns]

7. I agree with you

You're not talking bad about the type of people who read and participate on this board. The people here are not the ones your describing.

But there are many around who you are describing. And I feel the same way you do. I live in Southern West Virginia and I can tell you that you nailed them. The people who surround me are exactly as you describe.

To be honest you nailed them.

[JI7]

8. it's a majority of white men for sure . this is why they have no problem with Russia

in fact they like it that russia would help a racist white man to become president .

[whathehell]

124. You don't remember the Cold War, do you?

[treestar]

148. It's a new era

Now they likely see Russia as lucky - white supremacy, anti-gay, etc. Power to the richest. It's an oligarchy now, not communist, so the right will see it differently.

[whathehell]

158. Attitudes don't change that fast, especially among Boomers who well remember

the fear of the Cold War and the "evil empire" that permeated most of their lives.

[JI7]

161. this isn't the child war . putin is seen more as a right wing bigot

like them.

Just look at their continued support for trump and his pro russia position.

[whathehell]

165. What is the "child war"?

I don't think most "like" Putin for any reason beyond the fact that Trump likes him.

[JI7]

166. And that says a lot about where they stand

[treestar]

192. Russia is different from the USSR though

It doesn't have the nuclear parity any more. When I was a kid, the Cold War was on. We weren't the only superpower.

The RW of course would not like how the USSR ran, and it was an attempted at "communism" which they so dread. But Russia is just how they like things run.

[whathehell]

199. I doubt most of the RW are fully aware of that..

Nor do think they are aware enough of how "Russia is run today" to approve or disapprove...Sorry, I maintain that it's a simple matter of "the friend of my friend".

[yardwork]

203. Apparently attitudes have changed. Turns out they don't care.

Turns out that their so-called patriotism was just an excuse.

[whathehell]

206. Not necessarily apparent...At this point, It's likely more don't "believe" than don't "care"

This scandal is still in early days and most RWingers are so distrustful of "the liberal media" and Trump's "fake news" b.s., that I doubt "lack of caring" could be deduced as a valid cause, at least at this point.

[melman]

14. Bullshit

Simple as that. Bullshit.

[we can do it]

43. Exactly

[Xipe Totec]

15. Are you submitting this for peer review? nt

[TheBlackAdder]

283. Hahaha! I have a feeling I won't be seeing this in PLOS or in JSTOR anytime soon!

[Xipe Totec]

284. Perhaps in the Journal of Irreproducible Results. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. Narcissistic deadbeat traitorous billionaire is NOT normal. . . . nt

[Squinch]

35. But the white people who voted for him ARE the majority of whites.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. That doesn't make him normal among even those whites. tRump is not normal. . . . . nt

[Squinch]

63. It certainly means that they found him acceptable overall, and they found his faults to be something

that was "over-look-able."

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. Acceptable and normal are two completely different things, as are desirable and normal. . . nt

[Squinch]

66. 70% of white men voted for him. That would seem to define a norm.

The typical white man was able to stand there in the voting booth and say, "Yeah! Let's go for this!"

[Bernardo de La Paz]

72. A norm for vote recipient in that group. NOT a norm for who they are. tRump is NOT normal.

Traitorous, narcissistic, fraudulent billionaires are not normally found among white Americans nor among Americans of any color.

Almost no Americans are traitorous.
Few Americans are narcissistic to tRump's extreme.
Few Americans are fraudulent and almost none on tRump's scale of 6 bankruptcies.
Almost no Americans are billionaires though tRump has six in his cabinet.

Trump is not normal and he does not define the norm. Trump is not who they are.

This is so obvious.

[Squinch]

80. I don't think anyone is saying that Trump himself is the norm. I think the point is that

acceptance of what Trump stands for is the norm.

Listening to what Trump says, including all the overt racism and sexism, and saying, "Yeah, I like the cut of that jib!" is the norm.

Proven by the voting numbers in which large majorities of most white groups voted for him.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

94. The OP's bogus claim that 70% of whites are racist is bogus. It is NOT the norm.

I'm not saying the OP is prone to hate, but only that the OP is making the kind of claim that is common when viewing things with a mind clouded with hate. Hate makes people focus on single issues, but even people not actively hating can make that single-issue mistake.

Some people hate tRump supporters because they see racism among them. That hate makes them view through only the single issue they are hating on.

Many, probably more than half but I not going to make unsupported flat bald statements with percentages, many of tRump supporters are not racist and support him for multiple reasons that have nothing to do with racism. Primary among those reasons is under-employment and blame for that on globalism (which is misplaced). They don't accuse brown people of taking coal mining and steel-working jobs. They know that those jobs just are not there to be taken by anybody and they see that lack as the problem. They think the cause is globalism and free trade rather than automation and productivity efficiency.

Beyond that there are many issues like abortion, emails, regulation of mega-corporations, and others that motivate tRump supporters.

Yes, many are deplorable, but most are not racist.

Truckers are not the basis for a scientific or rational sample of tRump supporters nor whites nor the American populace.

[Squinch]

106. Lol. "I'm not saying he's a hater...but he's a hater..." No, I really have to disagree.

This is a long standing debate that has been going on here for a long time, and I don't think you and I are going to resolve it, but I am one of those people who thinks that, regardless of the excuses they give, Trump voters voted for Trump mostly because they want to put those uppity brown people and those uppity wimmins back in their boxes.

Everyone who voted for Trump knew for a fact that he is a racist and a sexist. Most of those other reasons you give that they give are covers. As you say, they know the jobs aren't coming back. They have no problem with Republicans using private email servers. There has been no outcry as Trump has filled his administration with mega-corporations. None of those reasons is real.

What Trump appealed to is racism and sexism. Those other issues have been proven by the voters apathy toward them since the election as covers for them to express their racism and sexism. Even if voters were sincere about those issues at one point, Trump's raging racism and sexism had to have been acceptable to them in order for them to vote for him.

My eyes and ears tell me that most ARE racist. They prove it to me over and over every day.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

108. I did not say "I'm not saying he's a hater...but he's a hater..." STOP diverting.

The OP's whole thread is a big diversion from the Trump-Republican-Russia treason scandal.

I think I'm done here. I stop when the other guy underhandedly tries to stuff words in my mouth.

Go ahead and put in a last word.

[Squinch]

113. I see from your post that you thought we were having a fight. I thought we were having a discussion

Have a nice day.

[heaven05]

245. most are racist and deplorable

just look at those in the Terrible Triumvirate. Bannon a white supremacist, miller a white supremacist and a pussy grabbing boy who denied AA's a place to live in his properties, not because they didn't have the money, they were brown. You're only fooling yourself. A MAJORITY of trumpchump voters are racist, sexist and xenophobic/homophobic and their COVER were those issues you named. You're only fooling yourself.

[whathehell]

164. According to actual interviews, of Trump voters, what Trump "stands for" is

more about economics and distrust of Hillary than racism.. If that's not true, you'd have to explain why 33% of Hispanic women voted FOR Trump,

Hispanics being a group Trump insulted directly.

[Vilis Veritas]

137. Why does that make them the normal whites?

[Squinch]

224. Read the rest of the thread. This issue has been addressed a lot throughout.

[58Sunliner]

266. Still does not address your statement.

Which is "most white people voted for DT" which is not the same as using stats from the number of people who actually voted, and who actually voted for him. It is different. I saw your other arguments and I ask again, source? I don't want to be contentious, but it is important to back up blanket statements with actual facts.

[mnhtnbb]

18. I do not know what the percentage is--70%, 80%, 60%--but Tobin is correct IMO

that at least a majority of white people in the US think that the lack of melanin
in their skin makes them better than people with more melanin in their skin.

Honestly. Why do you suppose that great white southern bigot McConnell was so determined to obstruct Obama from the moment he
took office? It was not about the "audacity of hope"; it was about the audacity of a black man to think he could occupy the White House as President.

LBJ had it right 50 years ago when he said "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

The divide and conquer southern strategy of the Republican party would not have worked if it weren't for the fact that so many white people take very little convincing that they are better--strictly because of their skin color--than black people.


I recently saw the documentary, I Am Not Your Negro, which is about James Baldwin. I wrote an OP about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028735086

and I highly recommend everyone see it.
It speaks to Tobin's OP directly, and to this 66 year old white woman, Tobin is right on the money with his observation.

[babylonsister]

19. How does your epiphany account for

President Obama winning two terms?

[mnhtnbb]

21. Here are the demographic breakdowns of the 2008 and 2012 Obama wins

2008



White vote: Obama 43% McCain 55%


https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2008/



2012


White vote: Obama 39% Romney 59%


https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2012/



The answer to your question is turnout of other than white voters who voted in higher percentages for Obama.

[griloco]

47. Well....that and the Rooskies

[Trust Buster]

33. Shhhh, please don't allow facts to interrupt such racial arrogance.

[mnhtnbb]

111. Uh, yes, the facts of the demographic breakdown of voters

showed whites voted for McCain and Romney in significant percentages over Obama. Look at my post #21.

[no_hypocrisy]

20. Except for your choice of "normal", I can see where you're coming from.

I'd opt for the term "average" or "common". IMO, it isn't normal to make decisions based on melanin or an X chromosome.

As toward what Obama represented to this demographic, it was more than outrage of someone "colored" who achieved equality. Their outrage that someone "colored" achieved superiority over them and that status drove them over the proverbial edge. Even Trump had to acknowledge his lower status compared to the POTUS until he got elected.

Consider what I just wrote in a vocational setting. Imagine you're white and you have an African-American employer, boss, supervisor, manager, etc. and they have the ability to control your destiny. They can write you up; they can dock your pay; they can switch your schedule; they can criticize you; they can demote you; they can fire you; they can interfere with your search for your next job. Bad enough you lost your job, but because of your prejudice, someone you hate made the call.

I reiterate: what white Americans hate about Obama, Hillary, and what they represent is their superiority over them.

[mnhtnbb]

23. It's melanin--the pigmentation that determines skin color--not melatonin which is a sleep drug.

But you might be right, though, that some people might not be fully awake when they make decisions!

[no_hypocrisy]

24. Thank you, corrected.

[Chemisse]

99. I think you've put your finger on the source of so much rage.

Racism was smouldering along, kept politely below the surface, until a black man rose to a superior position. Some even said we had entered a 'post-racial' time. The eruption of ugly, hateful behaviours that followed Obama's election revealed the huge well of racism that had been there all along.

[mnhtnbb]

125. This has been my thought for some time.

There's a great interview of James Baldwin in the documentary I Am Not Your Negro where a Yale philosophy professor
accuses Baldwin of being too focused on race as always the issue. Baldwin destroys him...just destroys the guy...in his response.
That scene alone is worth the price of admission to the movie.

I think that the movie should be shown to the Supreme Court Justices as a required "continuing ed" seminar. Post-racial society, my foot.

[nocalflea]

25. covert,behind closed doors,

racism exists.Steath racism.Just between us white folks racism.It always suprises me .Why do I assume people are better than this ? We all have our bias. People of all races,all ethnicities have prejudices.I tend to see the individual -MLK 's "judge a man by the content of his character " rang true to me when I first heard it as a child .That doesn't mean I don't see race .That's the first thing we notice about each other.Because of the racial history of this country -we have to see color-racial sensitivities demand that we do.Race shapes us- most white people don't grow up fearing the police-growing up fearing the police has an effect on who you are.
I am utterly stupified by these people who believe that Obama took care of black folks while ignoring white folks needs- but look at how many of them want to get rid of Obamacare -but want to keep the ACA (not a very logical stançe - If Obamacare is a handout-what the hell did they think the ACA was ? The ACA tax subsidies are ok , but Obamacare's tax subsidies are bad ? Good grief !
That people don't know they are one in the same terrifies me.

[Trust Buster]

31. I find this to be an extremely racist and insulting OP. Why does DU tolerate such garbage ?

If I posted an OP generalizing that black folk were 70% this or 70% that, it would be hidden in the blink of an eye. I am not foolish enough to claim to know what percentage of DU members hold hypocritical double standards, but I do know a few now.

[Squinch]

36. If you could back it up with voter statistics it would not be hidden. Tobin's point is supported

by the voter statistics from this election. His number is not exact, but it's close.

[Trust Buster]

38. Bull. Tobin thinks he/she has the right to determine what constitutes a "normal white person".

I am a white male who voted for Hillary therefore, according to Tobin, I must be an "abnormal white person" by definition. I resent that implication. Disgusting.

[Squinch]

41. Whatever. I'm a white woman. I am able to look at the numbers without getting up on my high

dudgeon because of a word choice, and those numbers undeniably support the truth of the point he is making.

Your mileage may vary, as you seem to be outraged over a fairly neutral word choice and unable to see the underlying true point.

[Trust Buster]

44. #Double Standard.

[Squinch]

45. In what way? If 70% of black men had voted for Trump, would you consider the Trump voter

to be the average black man?

I would.

[we can do it]

48. No, because not all of them vote. A large percentage of the country does not vote.

[Squinch]

54. Those who did not vote were not moved enough by Trump's raging sexism and racism to extend the

effort to pull a lever to stop him.

Not quite as bad as voting for him, but very very close.

[Trust Buster]

53. Bad analogy. You left an important characteristic out - the word racist.

A fair analogy would be to say that, if 70% of black males voted against a candidate that campaigned on cracking down on drugs and murders, then 70% of black males must be criminals who commit murders and sell drugs. That wouldn't be allowed to stand here and neither should this IMO. The rambling thoughts of an "abnormal white male".

[Squinch]

62. No. We're probably going to get into the weeds here, but your analogy is incorrect.

If it were to work, you would not have a vote AGAINST a person cracking down on murderers.

You would have a vote FOR a person who WAS a murderer, who was open about being a murderer, and who said that murdering was a peachy way to spend your time. You would have to be imagining a candidate who wore a hat that said, "Make America Murderers Again!"

If you had that candidate, and 70% of a group voted for him, you can pretty much bet that that 70% really likes murder.

[treestar]

152. the average black voter was for Hillary over

bernie and for Hillary over DontheCon. Simple fact based on statistics.

[Squinch]

182. I know that. I am trying to answer the poster who is saying that the fact that 70% of

white men voting for Trump does not mean it is the norm for white men to be Trump voters.

My post was just an analogy asking what if it were the other way around and it was black men?

[treestar]

190. Oh yeah I know

And it is just a fact, not "racist" as above poster seems to be claiming as far as talking about how the majority of white people voted.

[Dustlawyer]

84. Ditto!

It would be like saying that blacks who did not vote and could have are lazy or stupid, it's not true. The white people who are voting Republican are either brainwashed by the propaganda that minorities are taking over and they will be abused or screwed over, or they are wealthy and want the tax breaks. A good portion ARE doing it for racially motivated reasons, but that does not make the "normal."

Divisive posts like this serve legitimate no purpose here.

[we can do it]

93. Divisive posts like this serve no purpose here, exactly.

How many people here were bashing Hillary right up to the election? How many were going to "protest vote"?

[whathehell]

102. Yeah..This is just a "Let's bash white people thread".

An OP generalizing Blacks or any other group in such broad, negative terms would be hidden in a New York minute.

[treestar]

151. In this case abnormal would be an honor

White liberals are a minority among whites. That's not "abnormal" in an unpleasant way.

[heaven05]

246. no bull, truth

without self imposed blinders screaming about "reverse racism" which I knew would come to the fore in this discussion. No bull, an overwhelming majority of trumpchump voters are racist, sexist. xenophobic/homophobic deplorable people. NO DOUBT!!!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

76. You are correct. . . . . nt

[treestar]

150. It's different talking about the dominant group

and not impossible that some percentage of white people harbor ideas of supremacy, even unadmitted to themselves. We probably all have some at least drilled into us. If my age, we all went to school with all white children. My neighborhood had one Asian family, one Jewish family, and zero black families.

The only black people I saw were women who came to clean the house once per week (and this was not an upper class neighborhood. My mother could afford this though dad's earnings were middle class, and not upper middle class).

Luckily in 7th grade we had a unit on prejudice, and that affected me pretty well, and it was the late 60s early 70s when being liberal was in.

[hamsterjill]

221. +1

I don't think now is the time to be inserting even more divides in Democrats. Our common enemy is the Republican voter, not Democrats regardless of color.

I'm white and have always voted for Dems. Don't try to put me in some category. Just welcome anyone who is a democratic leaning voter.

[MountCleaners]

32. I dunno...

I keep hearing in my mind the voices of those who say we should listen to those who voted for Trump, so I do, and what I'm hearing, frankly, comes down to racism. Sometimes what they say isn't directly racist, but the fact is, if they were black they would see things differently and they can't bear to consider that. Like my sister-in-law's dad, who voted for Trump, even though he hates him, because of abortion. The fact that you would choose to vote for someone so un-Christian, who would mistreat retired people, sick people, abuse the environment, etc. all because of one issue you got at church...this is white privilege, the more you think about it.

[haele]

156. I'd rather listen to those who didn't vote. Drumpf voters bought him whole hog.

Getting more of the 50- 55% who didn't vote to vote is where we lost. I've been looking at the unusual turn-out in the latest special elections, and noticed that when there is a high turn-out, even in gerrymandered GOP districts the Democrat has done well.
Ask why they didn't vote -well, here in California, most of those who didn't vote "on principle" still indicate they had less problems with Drumpf than they did with Clinton when the time to cast their vote came around.
So in a way, the OP is correct. Most of the White non voters here still just shrug and say "Why don't you Liberals give him a chance before you go all SJW on him" during protests against him. Just like the Drumpf voters do, just not so strident about it.

To most of the White non-voters I've either spoken to or read what they've already said, Drumpf is a normal guy from the business world (the "everyone has had a boss like him" type) who is learning government "on the job", so the first year they expect him to screw up a bit. The non-voters (choice due to "principle&quot are still figuring the congress will make sure the short-fingered vulgarian doesn't do anything bad for business - and to people who depend on a 401K to supplement their Social Security, what's good for business is what's good for the U.S...

Haele

[we can do it]

37. This is racist, insulting bullshit.

[Squinch]

42. It's supported by the numbers from the election we just had.

[we can do it]

46. Bernie bros and non voters figured in? Cause I'm not buying it.

I'm not seeing it. Most of the white people I know are terrified of drump and his supporters.

[Squinch]

49. A majority of white people who voted voted for Trump. The ones who stayed home didn't

find Trump frightening enough to extend the effort to pull a lever against him.

Among the bros, what lost them the black vote was their early and sincere insistence that "social justice issues," which is another term for civil rights, should take a back seat to economic justice.

[wcast]

51. You must live in an unique area because the large majority of white people I know support Trump.

They believe their country is gone and are literally fighting to get it back. We Democrats have a hard time believing this because we can't relate to those feelings. People in my area hated Obama, mostly because he is black. Don't know about his policies and don't care. Can only support him when they don't know, such as the ObamaCare vs. ACA. 71% of the electorate in my area showed up to vote, with 75% of them voting for trump, and another 5 percent voting for someone other than Hillary.

[we can do it]

68. Northeast Ohio and Delaware.

I don't think these are "unique" areas. 2 black men and 2 white men from my gym in DE are vocal drump supporters, nearly everyone else are strongly against him. This is not solely what I am basing my thoughts on, it's just an anecdote.

[smirkymonkey]

163. I live in a very blue city in a very blue state and a large majority of the people

here despise Trump and didn't vote for him. In fact, I know very few white people who did - even Republicans, if you can believe that. I continue to hear of people at work that I know of that are hardcore Republicans that I was sure that voted Trump and I found out that they either voted for a third party candidate, didn't vote or wrote someone in. I even found out that one of the most hardcore, outspoken hardcore Republican woman in my office wrote in Romney rather than vote for Trump.

People here hate him with a passion. I have been pleasantly surprised by the anti-Trump sentiment in my area. All white people are not the same. And we miss Obama dearly.

[whathehell]

208. What makes you think the White people YOU know are more reflective of the whole? Maybe it's you

who live in a unique area.

[sarah FAILIN]

71. Not even half the eligible citizens voted

This is racist bs that is not acceptable. The man did not even get 25% of the citizens vote. You can't extrapolate on those numbers accurately.

[Squinch]

74. That does not disprove the point. We watched Trump spew his racism and sexism for a

year on every news show every day. There was no way to escape seeing his rampant, raging racism and his sexism.

Fifty percent of registered voters saw that, knew what he was, and didn't see the need to extend the effort to pull a lever in a voting booth to stop him.

As I have said before, not quite as bad as voting for him, but very close.

[sarah FAILIN]

95. Just because a majority of his voters were white does not mean all whites are racist

He accumulated racists, this is true, but that thinking is flawed. He did not get all the white vote in the election..

There is a term for this but I can't think of it. Example- If all chocolates are brown and Caramel is brown, then Caramel must be chocolate. Wrong.

[Squinch]

189. I agree. And I agree that he accumulated racists. And I agree that not all white people

are racist. The poster is not saying that all white people are racist, and in fact goes to some pains to describe those who are not.

But the number of white racists that Trump was able to accumulate, as you put it very well, is astonishing to me. It is astonishing to me exactly how many white people turned out to be stone racists.

And I'm a white woman. I'm there for those conversations that happen when there are no black people around. Maybe it's because I am open about my intolerance for those conversations, but I was shocked at the numbers of white people who showed their racism and sexism by voting for this evil man.

[whathehell]

262. Thank you. I agree completely. n/t

[mnhtnbb]

116. The preliminary data on the 2016 election does show whites voting

37% Clinton and 58% Trump. (Obama had 43% in 2008 and 39% in 2012).

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/groups-voted-2016/

So not only are the white voters in the past three elections racist, but also sexist.


We definitely have a power struggle in this country where a significant percentage of white voters are determined not
to give power to black people or women. The numbers from the past three elections back this up.


Please note that the numbers are applied to voters. Unless non-voters are also polled for who their choice would be IF they had voted,
you can't really draw any conclusions about them.

[luvMIdog]

39. Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you

[Trust Buster]

55. Thank you.

[cwydro]

75. Yes.

What you said.

[oberliner]

50. This post has got to be meant as parody

Right?

[Vinca]

56. Wow - I hope so. It's disturbing anyone would lump all white people into that pot.

For starters, Trump is definitely not a normal anything.

[we can do it]

89. Very disturbing. All white people aren't truckers.

[whathehell]

213. Of course..

but why bother? When you're perception is skewered by deep-seated resentment, facts don't much matter.

[sarah FAILIN]

97. I don't think so.

They are serious.

[gordianot]

59. I am not sure of your numbers but I had a conversation yesterday that confirms your observation.

My wife and I are retired we were at our car dealer for an oil change in rural Missouri. The owner is a friend and like us a life long Democrat. I quote: "I am alone here they all love Trump he can do no wrong". Our friend has cancer has been treated for it at least six years. My response your employees get health insurance right? He smiled yes and Trump will screw them over we are barely holding on. On parting there are a few comforts. Our kids are still Democrats. (My daughter in mid 20's dropped her Trump voting boyfriend). His son will keep or try to keep the doors open. His Trump supporting employees are being betrayed. Obama in spite of TPP (a financial political expedient) was the best President of our life time. Not being racist, sexist, a religious demagogue can be lonely.

[bekkilyn]

60. A lot of those very same white people voted for Obama

Racism also doesn't explain why Democrats have been wiped out throughout the country in other federal as well as local elections.

I'm not trying to claim that racism isn't a problem (because it is) or that an individual might unfortunately be surrounded by racist people in their particular living/working environments, but to claim that these election issues are "all about racism" and ignoring all the other reasons as to why people voted against Hillary or for 45 is just going to ensure that Democrats keep losing in the future.

[we can do it]

69. This times 10000

[Squinch]

70. That's not born out by the data.

It seems more likely that many Obama voters stayed home (which I do think is nearly as bad as voting for Trump) and many previous non-voters came out of the woodwork like little roaches and voted for Trump.

I can't find the link to the analysis right now where I got that, but I'll keep looking and get back to you.

[JI7]

250. no they didn't.

[MountCleaners]

65. This "Obama is unAmerican" crap...

Give me a break, it's not just because of his father - it's racism. To see how popular someone is in the black community, and ignore that, and declare someone "un-American" is a slap in the face to black people.

[elias7]

81. so you now look at me with distrust. Thanks for that.

[Squinch]

87. If 70% of black men had just voted for a person who made it clear that he thought that

white people were "bad hombres" and criminals and lesser beings, and who promised to bring in a whole administration of black men who shared his views, would you look at black men with trust?

[elias7]

233. Probably not, but that's the point. It's not whites per se. It's the majority race of any culture.

First, I would take issue with the 70% number, as this seems high, though I have not checked demographics, and this may be correct.

But the OP is not correct to say that he/she figured out white people. I think he/she is describing typical human behavior when a culture is rapidly changing and the group that believes itself to be majority is finding that it may be losing that advantage.

Your example of 70% of black men voting for someone gaining support because of fear monger in gay against white people is exactly the point. Can I conclude, therefore, that "I have finally figured out black people" and is that a fair statement?

[Squinch]

264. The 70% number is for non-college educated men. Other white demographics vary from 50%

to 65%.

I don't understand your statement about your having figured out black people. I posed an entirely fictional account of a black fear mongering candidate. Then I posed an entirely fictional account of 70% of black men supporting that candidate.

This has never happened, and we have no reason to suspect that it WOULD happen. So based on that entirely made up scenario that is unlikely ever to happen can you say you have figured out black people? No. That would be stupid.

It has, however, happened with white people. We have seen it happen. Just a few weeks ago, remember? It is based on that actual event that the OP has made his statement.

[elias7]

267. What I mean is I think this is tribal human behavior when threatened

Any culture undergoing change or evolution that entails influx of many people of a different ethnic group or different race is going to make large elements of the indigenous population feel threatened, and a demagogue can appeal to their fears and prejudices, especially in not the best of times economically.

So my point is that the OP is seeing the manifestation of fear and loathing in the majority culture that I would postulate transcends ethnicity or race. In this view, OP does not "get white people" but rather gets pushback of a majority culture feeling the loss of control, whether it be a white, black, yellow, brown, red or rainbow culture.

[Squinch]

268. In what way are white people more indigenous than other citizens? What makes you think

this is being caused by an influx? The fear the trump voter has is against black and brown people. POCs aren't "influxing" to coin a phrase. They've been here all along, right along with the lily white folks like me.

I disagree that it would transcend ethnicity. I think it's a privilege thing. Those who are gaining ascendancy right now have never had privilege, so this terror that is expressed in the trump vote, this absolute sureness that they deserve to have more than everyone around them, would not be something America's other ethnicities would feel.

[elias7]

269. I think you're misunderstanding my larger point

If I was living here in the 16th century, pushing westward to settle, and found myself not treated in a welcome fashion by the dominant culture of native Americans, would it be fair for me to say that I "get" native Americans, and understand them to racist, violent, and xenophobic people?

The problem is white privilege specific in THIS country at THIS time because whites are the dominant group at this time. But the behavior of feeling threatened and acting out of fear of change or perceived superiority is not specific to white people outside of this time and place.

I'm not sure why you're not seeing my point, and why I disagree with the OP.

[Squinch]

285. I do understand your larger point. And history does not bear it out. In fact, if you were

here in the- we'll go with early 17th century - if you were one of the first settlers in New England, you would have found yourself to be exceptionally well treated by the native Americans. Guys like Massasoit and his people bent over backwards to be helpful and accommodating. Even as he watched boat after boat of English show up.

It was only after a few English massacres of native villages that the natives turned against them, and even then it was not a widespread reaction for many years. It only became racial when the English made it racial in King Philip's war. Prior to that it was smaller groups of natives against smaller groups of English who clashed locally as neighbors often do, and other native groups refused to join the natives, and other English groups refused to join the English.

So no. It is incorrect to say that most "indigenous" populations would respond this way when a new population shows up. This is not a "universal" response by any means. This is a response by entitled people who fear the loss of their entitlement.

It doesn't have to do with "new" populations and "indigenous" populations. It has to do with subjugated and subjugator when the subjugator loses his primacy.

And what history DOES bear out is that the subjugator is almost always an atrocity-dependent group who used methods that most normal people find morally repugnant to maintain their position as subjugator. So no one has much sympathy for them when they are forced to stop. As in this case.

[whathehell]

82. No you haven't....You're using normal as code for "Racist"

and it's bullshit. Tthe only thing you've "figured out" is your own prejudice.

[bunnies]

86. What the everloving fuck?

No. Never mind. It's way too early for me to be this pissed. I've got to go find some "normal" white person shit to do like build a cross to burn. Fuck this shit.

[we can do it]

98. Thank you. Big mouth men on CB (who the hell is on CB anymore???) equal white people?!?

[bunnies]

101. Right?

I'm trying not to seethe. Can't wait for his relevations on other races.

[we can do it]

104. Hugs to you, I'm making some coffee now.

[bunnies]

105. Me too.

Maybe that'll help.

[dawg]

100. I get where you are coming from.

It's frustrating and depressing to realize just how many people in this country are driven by their hate and prejudice.

Despite the recent election, however, I do believe we are gradually winning. The younger you go, the more more reasonable people become. Over time, a large shift in the electorate is inevitable.

[mnhtnbb]

120. This is the most optimistic post in this thread. Yes, attitudes are changing.

[logosoco]

109. How great to read this post first thing in the morning!

I live among these "normal" people. But, I tend to see them as more scared than normal. I have never been what one would call normal or average. I fit in my community to an extent...we are people who enjoy open, wooded spaces and not too many people. Past that, on the surface we don't have much in common.On the surface anyway.

I have had two neighbors who were leaning way right, but I chose to befriend them. After many talks, I think they were surprised that they agreed with me far more than they thought. It was buried far inside them, but with the right words and conversations, they saw it.

My area went with Obama the first time, fed up with the sort of president Bush had been. They think they like Trump, sort of like they had to like the boss to get along and get a paycheck.

Often I have thought of moving, I hate the idea of anyone thinking I have the same political ideas as a majority of them. But, when I really look deeper, there are more like me out here than I think. They are slow to change, but most of them will get it. Especially after seeing the horrid president they voted for for who is really is.

Evolution is a slow process. Someday we will all be godless commies and the world will be a better place!!

[Motownman78]

110. How do you handle

that mile-wide paintbrush?

[Silver Gaia]

115. Considering that only 55-58% of eligible voters actually voted in Nov 2016,

the statistics of who voted for whom cannot be extrapolated onto the whole population. Besides all the other very valid reasons why this theory is unworkable, there is just no way this can work for the entire adult U.S. population. I say B.S. And yes, there's NO WAY Trump is a "normal" white guy, or any other kind of "normal." jeez. Just NO. (55-58% came from CNN & 538 combined, google it)

[we can do it]

159. Thank you. Sick of this divisive crap.

[we can do it]

174. This isn't who we are. Don't let this ignorant post keep you away. I'm a white female.

Our LGBT and other minority communities don't need to be marginalized from within. It's astounding some here don't get that divide and conquer worked in this election.

[whathehell]

243. I don't think a majority here agree with the OP..

I certainly don't, and if you really look at the thread you will see LOTS of pushback...Don't let this one thread keep you away..It's not typical..If it was, I'd have left long ago..

[El Viejo]

119. That was an impressive rant

While I won't dare to contest your experience with truck drivers on CB radio (I have one also), those guys don't speak for or like most normal white guys.

I think if you take a look at the resisters participating in protests, online, or otherwise, you'll find plenty of normal white guys.
We don't like Trump and we don't listen to douchebags like Alex Jones, Limbaugh or Hannity. We like Obama and recognize the good job he did in his 8 years. We're normal. The crackpots on the far right are not.

[ananda]

121. This is what I've been thinking for awhile ..

.. that many 45 supporters would literally rather die -- lose healthcare,
all social safety nets and protections -- than be governed by a Black
person or a woman associated with Black people.

That 45 is a sociopathic monster is irrelevant .. because he's THEIR
WHITE sociopathic monster.

[raging moderate]

127. Um, guys, you know how they smirk and wink?

They say one of those cryptic things about Black people and then they do this strange angry smirk and wink? Like there is some great secret we are in on because we have pale skin? I always thought it was nothing, but now I am worrying.

Maybe we'd better try to find out what that is. Do a little infiltrating.

[ismnotwasm]

128. Pretty much

Oh we all fuss and hallor, but I could lay out a number of racist sentences here with the personal conviction that at least one has been said or heard by white people during their lifetime. It's not just racism, it's the entire concept of whiteness.

I understand that people don't understand. Which is my slip of privilege showing.

[CanSocDem]

129. Yep.

Maybe it is the job, traveling and working in all regions of the country. Up close and personal interaction with all types of people at all levels of society. Big difference from those that sit at home and interact with their own tightly controlled social system.

Just from years of driving a truck in and out and around the USA, I knew that Obama would defeat Hillary in their primary and that Trump wasn't as unusual as Democrats portrayed him. Most rich businessmen that I met were just like him.

And since so-called Democrats were oblivious to the air of revolt as personified by the "occupy" movements and the striking social gains(cannabis, LGBT etc.) of the last decade, they chose more of the same to run against 'something completely different'.

Good luck with that "one-term" thing. The only other one-term POTUS in my lifetime was Jimmy Carter and he was one of the best.

.

[we can do it]

140. Ummmmmm, Bush the first?

[BumRushDaShow]

131. I wouldn't say 70%. More like 60%.

Obama got about 40% of the white vote, which put him on par with the previous Democratic Presidents since Johnson.....which was amazing considering that for years and years, black candidates generally only garnered about 25% of the white vote in areas with either equal or slightly majority-white populations.


http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/19/15282553-obama-performance-with-white-voters-on-par-with-other-democrats

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2012/11/08/president-obama-and-the-white-vote-no-problem/

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2016/02/05/130647/what-about-white-voters/

It may make DU very very uncomfortable to confront this because DUers (and Democrats in general) are more open and accepting of co-existence. But unfortunately, that is not the prevailing attitude among the rest in the country.

[Blecht]

133. Excellent post

You do exaggerate, but your point is well-made.

I consider myself to be a weirdo under your definitions.

[mountain grammy]

136. We can argue about statistics and broad brushes all day long

but bottom line, a proven racist, sexist, unintelligent, uneducated bigot is president, and white Americans put him there. My husband told me through the entire election, he believed in America and the majority of Americans will not elect a racist.Well, he was right and wrong. Like someone said, the line between a bigot and someone who'll vote for one is so thin as to be nonexistent.

With that said, I don't believe the majority of all Americans are racists, but the racists have learned how to win without a majority. They appeal to the ugly and fearful side of "normal" white people. For many in my husband's family, the fear comes from the lips of god, aka their preacher. They've taken down the "pray for America" sign and replaced it with one that says "Amen." WTF?

Chris Rock said "white people were crazy, now they're less crazy." A twist on "normal," same sentiment.

[MountCleaners]

139. The problem is that they -think- they're the norm

That's why their such bullies - because queer, minority-coddling liberals just won't conform, won't accept their "lifestyle", their church, their "values".

[treestar]

144. They may not admit it or even think they think it

It's probably existing deep down. They are not very political and so they don't think about these things.

Sometimes you see them claim that we should understand, by how upset we are to have donald as President, how they felt for the past 8 years. I tell them how they felt the past 8 years should be comparable to how we felt under Dubya. This time, they have gone so far, it's not normal lack of ease over a Republican President. It's far worse than that. So if they felt THAT bad under Obama it can only be due to being shocked that a black man could win.

Deep down they think it should not have been possible for Obama to win.

[underpants]

155. LOVE the subject line. As the whitest of white people let me say

you are exactly right. It clearly didn't matter who it was as long as they were white. I don't think that was a large part of the election but it was important and possibly part of the tipping point. Electing the first woman as POTUS was going to be hard but doing right after the first black POTUS was going to make it much more difficult.

[elehhhhna]

160. Interesting to find out that some random white truck drivers represent all Caucasians

WTeverlovingF

[we can do it]

168. Mostly male I would venture as well.

[heaven05]

162. this nt

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

172. Are you trying to normalize the Trumpsters?

They are not normal. Sorry. Their is something wrong with the whole lot of them. Also, you are broad brushing white people a lot as if we share one single brain. There are a whole lot of white people that didn't vote for Trump. There's also a whole lot of white people that didn't vote at all. Now that is not good, but you can't assume the non-voters support Trump. Most likely they are so fed up with the whole system they don't even bother voting anymore.

[we can do it]

197. Thank you. Not normal. Not most white people. Lots of third party and non voters among whites.

Also lots of anti-abortion one issue whites.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

204. Yes, the anti-abortion people....

will vote against their own best interests every time. I'm hoping some of them are catching on that they are screwing themselves over by being single issue voters. I know a few people like that. They actually despised Trump but still voted for him because he was the anti-abortion candidate.

[KentuckyWoman]

176. Your post

is the very reason I miss the thumbs down button.

[nolabear]

178. I don't think so. First you lost the many nonvoters. And you're limiting this to Americans.

There are a whole lot of white people around the world that are horrified that man is in office and hate everything he stands for.

But in this country there are far more people who simply don't vote for various reasons. They're avoidant, they don't think their vote matters, they're mad and turn their backs out of anger, they voted for Bernie or Stein because their ideals drive their votes.

As a trucker you are among the class and regional group that is the most pro-Trump. In that atmosphere they amp one another up and the radio plays to them. There are a lot of them but calling them the norm is an exaggeration. There is no one norm; take it from a therapist. We would like the comfort of thinking that we fit into an idealized concept of norm and we typically base it on what we see expressed the most in public. In private it's way, way, WAY more varied and complicated.

Take heart. They're there and sometimes they dominate but we are many and strong.

[liberalmuse]

180. My experience has me agreeing with you.

I'm middle aged and from a generation that should know better. It is very difficult to find someone my age who isn't racist. Uninformed. Xenophobic. There are few people aside from my family and some liberal friends who I can have an interesting discussion with, from fun to serious, while being confident they won't say something racist.

I also work in customer service and the stupidity and bigotry out there is mind boggling. A lot of people operate on the lowest common denominator default setting. Manners are a good thing. The tribal mind is no longer useful for our survival in today's world - quite the opposite. Thinking about what you say or how you want to come across, rather than behaving like a mindless meat puppet ("normal&quot is crucial if we want to live in a healthy society.

[bettyellen]

181. I hate to say I agree. Even the men I knew who disliked Trump were not worried about him to the

Extent women or POC were. They'd brush away concerns saying he really couldn't effect anything that would change their lives-or mine. Because we're in a blue state. I have to say I say a marked lack of empathy with others.
Was disappointing to see.

[ileus]

183. Once we're back in power, we need to outlaw normal white people.

Well not outlaw them but somehow pass laws to where they can't vote. People who have oppressed people all over the world while at the same time doing nothing useful for mankind for thousands of years shouldn't be allowed to vote in our America.

[Else You Are Mad]

188. Please tell me you aren't being serious.

Everyone in America has the right to vote. Full stop. Not just 'our people'. This sounds EXACTLY what the GOP wants to do to the black communities nation wide.

If you seriously think this, you are no better than the conservatives that want to disenfranchise the black community.

[Squinch]

202. No ilius is being sarcastic. He has a stubborn case of "not all white men."

[whathehell]

236. Riiiiight..

[nolabels]

184. White as in the KKK?

It's a cult made up of the people that so-called 'mass-media' has brainwashed you and most everybody else to accept. Without them, some people might not even know the difference.

Them giving us pictures and discriptions of those on that agenda is how the whole thing floats it'self. It's a self-perpetuating force that has even people consciously not wanting to accept it falling into it from previous early childhood training. This is not an excuse but just a nonthinking reflexive reaction. Sort of like when someone feels they are falling will put their hands and arms out to brace for the fall (sometimes breaking their wrists or other).

They will naturally cleave to it at any rate because it seems to them as a way to belong and of least resistance (which makes them weaker in the long run). Mostly as the euro-mutt that I am, have also found it easier to NOT trust that lazy-cultish type person because I often find they have a hard time holding to their word.

It's not so much the people themselves but more of how everything has been built and erected concerning structures of society. Perhaps check out some of the societies norms in India and you will get more of an idea about it.

It doesn't serve us and no longer will in today's globally connected world

[nini]

185. What bothers me about this post is the use of the word NORMAL

Your point of those white Trump voters is lost with your attack on 'NORMAL' white people.

Those white voters are mostly the rural/red state types you speak of. But look at the white vote in California, NY etc.. It's far more complicated than the color of anyone's skin. Those types are usually under educated which leads to their religious insanity, etc..

Of course there are racist whites - and they will side with the repubs for sure. However, you need to dig deeper beyond what 'normal' is here.

It's too bad because you made good points but lost a lot with how you worded it.

[dchill]

215. normal - conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.

By that definition, normal is abnormal. As a progressive white male, I am abnormal. Funny, I don't see it that way. As a term for this thread, it is unfortunate. Maybe "average" or "typical" would serve better. I've never considered myself to be either of those, and would therefore not have been offended. Not that that matters.

[nini]

216. I always think of this when I see 'abnormal'

[dchill]

217. Yeah, or any picture of Trump.

[nini]

219. yep

[Bucky]

187. I'm a normal white person. Trump is not.

Racial stereotyping doesn't work very good around here.



and by here I mean Earth

[KPN]

194. I am a white person. Without a lot of deep thinking on this ...

I have to say that I tend to agree with you.

I'm not sure that the majority of white people are racists in the sense that they feel free to use the N word, that they believe African Americans/people of color should be servants or slaves rather than equals, or that people of color lack merit. But they sure in hell are having a hard time accepting the fact that we are a multi-cultural society when it comes to political power and governance. There's no question about the racism that underlies the outlook and behavior of the GOP, 45 and those who voted for him. It's about control and power, dominance of one group over all others. That in itself is racist.

[whathehell]

209. My black female boss (and friend) believed, and I quote, "Everyone is racist" including

her own race, but yes, there are certainly degrees of it, and because of the society in which we grew, and some inborn human fear of "the other"
few if any are entirely free of it.

[nini]

218. I took a class in college about the 60s from a Black point of view (I'm white)

The professor explained it to us this way. Everyone is 'racist' - to say you do not see race is ridiculous.

The problem is when you treat someone differently because of it.

That class was a trip. There was one white guy in there than always asked her stuff like 'but why are most gang members black?' etc.. He wasn't being insulting - he was just a bit uninformed. On the last day of the class he thanked her and they had a hug that brought us all to tears. He learned from her and she knew exactly how to help him learn that what he thought he knew was wrong. I wish all people had to sit through a class like that and learn from those they do not know.

[Yavin4]

205. Racial identity is a driving force in American politics

And the largest obstacle to a progressive agenda.

[Calculating]

207. Racist tendencies tend to come out online and while voting

This is coming from a white person. Many white people will be polite in public out of fear of being branded a racist, but then they go join in racist discussions online, repost racist memes, and when voting time comes they're gonna favor the white guy unless there's a damn good reason not to. Racism never truly went away, it just quit existing out in the open and took refuge online. Obama's 8 years really got them riled up, and now they're out for revenge seeing that they have political control.

[jmg257]

220. You forgot how strongly normal white people are

Pro-gun and anti-abortion.*

*Also given reasons why people voted trump.

138 million normal white people...lots of voters there!

[Wellstone ruled]

228. What we are seeing is

best described by Tom Hartmann as Grievance Politics driven by FOX so called News. Follow the path of Roger Alies,as well as Lee Attwater,both practitioners and formulators of what is now called Grievance Political Speech. Frank Luntz uses this in his focus groups and the GOP found this so effective in getting reelected time and time again.

[samnsara]

230. im normal and im white and i hate trumps guts. but i am a white woman. so...is there a difference?

[heaven05]

237. a lot of the vote for boy-potus chump

was fear of loss of white entitlement that guides ameriKKKan white supremacist thought, action and supposed guaranteed right to american goodies. The first AA POTUS scared the living shit out of 69+million people, who by the way gained more than they lost in public services and health insurance and that they will lose with their choice for POTUS. HRC scared the people because a lot of white male KKKristians, after a black POTUS, did not want a woman over them with power they couldn't handle, that she would have handled as gracefully and with as much style and class as President Obama. The Klampetts appealed to their always base natures.

And the dread at losing even more white entitlement to all those brown people from around the world that wanted in on the spurious, much touted and imaginary, never realized, liberty and justice for all pushed them to vote Klampett instead of competence. This fact of immigrants really wanting to become productive american citizens spurred many white entitlement recipients to vote for the Terrible Triumvirate of boy-potus puppet, prezidents bannon and miller, with advisors david duke and alex jones.

Look at trumpchump, his string pullers, they can't handle the power they have and are REALLY fucking things up for the decent american and sooner rather than later for those ameriKKKans that voted for this Terrible Triumvirate. Which make your OP all the more scary and true.

[liquid diamond]

241. Outstanding post Tobin

"Normal" does not always have a positive meaning.

[Crunchy Frog]

244. This sort of thread makes me appreciate the trash thread feature.

[Orrex]

275. Most of my threads are trash threads

It's part of my charm, in fact.

[guillaumeb]

253. Trump received approximately 27% of the vote.

If you consider 27% to be a majority, and that assumes that literally only whiter people voted for Trump, then yes, Trump represents the norm.

New math in action?

[alarimer]

265. This MAY be true in various parts of the country but not in more populous areas.

You meet a lot of these folks because they tend towards the kind of work that you do, so you assume all the rest must be the same.

But they're not. 90% of the white people I meet here more like us. Virtually everybody I work with. But then I work with scientists, who (in another generalization) have an overwhelming tendency towards liberalism. If all I met were people like the ones I work with, I would think all white people were like them. If only that were true.

It is dangerous to generalize this way. Because a lot of these so-called conservatives are showing up in large numbers at various town halls because they are concerned, and maybe their motivation is entirely selfish, but whatever saves the ACA is okay in my book.

[Mr Dixon]

271. IMO

Thank you kind sir I been trying to figure this out for a while so confusing, when WP agree with me when something is obvious wrong or complete BS. So rational WP are the crazy ones, makes sense to me LOL, Color me crazy along with them. History confirms your conclusion, WP have been conditioned to feel they are better and deserve more than anyone else, laws have been written to ensure this narrative remains in-place, just one problem the rich are building a wall and locking the poor whites out so now WTF are they going to do.

[Orrex]

272. Well, that's a hell of a drive-by, at least.

[hunter]

273. Yet it was amusing to see who was most offended.

[Orrex]

274. I'M OFFENDED THAT YOU POSTED THAT!!!!!!!!

Or something.

[Iggo]

276. You're not that far off. These people exist, and there's millions and millions of them.

"So it doesn't matter that Obama made it possible for many of them to afford health insurance. It doesn't matter that he didn't get any of their children killed in a war. Trump will take their health insurance away, plunge us into another recession, and start another slaughter in the Middle East somewhere, and, in their minds, he will still be a far better president than Obama. Because he's a white man. Period. "

[Lotusflower70]

278. Interesting observations

In regard to normal, normal is a relative term. To most Democrats, the normal white person you propose is not normal. But to most Republicans, their traditional values, 1950's mindset is normal. So we are operating from different beliefs and viewpoints and very different logic. Trying to reach out to their normal is like speaking another language. I don't know if I would put it at 70% but this election reinforced exactly what we are up against. I truly believe that there was no way that we would have had a Black male President and a white female President back to back. That was motivation enough for some people to vote for Trump. Some Democrats got comfortable and complacent after 8 years and assumed the next 4 were in the bag. Huge mistake.

[Scruffy1]

279. Most white people are in denial.

Yeah, I'm white if being part Jew and part Indian counts. I've gotten to the point I don't really enjoy being around most white people except my friends on the far left and some anarchists I know. White people in general deny they are racist, but won't do anything to counter it. Most liberals clutch their pearls when anyone takes direct action to fight back, as if meeting violence with "oh my" will do anything. That doesn't mean they are bad people, it's just that we live in a racist country where it was programmed in from day 1. I remember a local group in my cities who took direct action against a bunch of skinhead racists who were terrorizing a neighborhood. It was mainly white anarchists.They carried baseball bats. It worked. There was little violence since bullies are cowards and only attack when their targets are vulnerable. So i shop at a black grocery store with soul music on the PA and we go singing through the aisles, play guitar with my black friends on Monday nights. I don't have to listen to some ignoramus espouse what he heard on the radio or TV.

[Egnever]

281. No offense but

Truckers are not exactly the most enlightened bunch.

Basing your opinion of white people on truckers is like basing your opinion of black people on bangers.

[lunatica]

282. You're metaphysics studies are beginning to make a difference

Question everything. And when something hits you like a thunderbolt and you suddenly understand something that's your intuition kicking in. All part of all that stuff about the higher you.