Just Wait Until People Start Getting Their Health Ins. Rebates

[Skraxx]

Which I believe kick in pretty soon, before the election.

And Repubs are threatening to repeal.

Long game. It's all about the long game.

[Sherman A1]

1. Precisely

[freshwest]

2. This is why they squealed so loud about it to begin with. A lot of people didn't about know this.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

3. Rebates won't make up for the increase in premiums

More people with access to healthcare means more people going to see doctors (good thing)

Supply (number of doctors) and demand (number of patients) will result in increased fees, meaning increased premiums.

Add in the fact that insurance companies have to take everyone for the same price (good thing), no lifetime limits (good thing) and a robust basic plan (good thing) and you're looking at skyrocketing costs for health insurance.

[postulater]

4. Fees are set by the ins cos

Why would they ever increase? Medicare continues to lower fees.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

5. They negotiate with doctors to set the fees

And doctors aren't going to allow their fees to be set below a point at which they make a profit. They would be stupid to do so.

Supply and demand is what it is - as demand goes up and supply remains static, prices increase. And someone has to pay for those increases.

[Skraxx]

7. Dr's inflate fees to make up for loss on denials

That won't be as much of a problem anymore because of the MLR. It's no longer so profitable to deny services when your overhead and profit is capped.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

11. Doubtful

If the procedure is denied, they either don't do it, work out a payment plan or take the loss.

They do however, raise fees to make up for the low reimbursement rates of Medicare and Medicaid. With more people on Medicaid, that will mean more to make up, and more to reason to raise fees on insured patients.

As for MLR, it will have no effect on what I'm talking about. If fees go up, premiums can and will go up as well. So long as the ratio is maintained, there is no upper limit on premiums.

[Skraxx]

16. Wrong, denials and lack of coverage are the biggest losses

Your making shit up now.

Of course MLR has an effect. There's less profit incentive for denials, less incentive for higher fees.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

31. Making shit up?

Are you not aware of the number of physicians that won't accept new Medicare patients is increasing, because the payments are so low? For the vast majority that do take Medicare patients, how do you think they make up the difference?

Through charging insured patients more.

[Skraxx]

42. Yes, Making Shit Up

Losses from uninsured and denials are still more, and that's an ins. Co. Created problem which leads to MM recipients becoming the victims. Interesting that you seem to be attacking MM and defending ins. Cos.

[Skraxx]

6. Wrong

Everyone paying into the system will keep fees down. Non profit health insurance options on the exchanges will keep prices down. MLR will keep costs down.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

8. Everyone paying into the system has nothing to do with supply and demand

When you increase by ~35 million the number of people that are now able to see a doctor, and the number of doctors stays relatively static, costs will increase, and as a result, premiums will increase.

It's good that millions more will have health insurance, but we need to pull our heads out of the sand and be realistic about the costs. This isn't going to save money.

[Skraxx]

13. Unless theyve already increased disproportionally, which they have

There will be a downward adjustment.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. Nope

If fees go up, insurance companies can increase the premiums to whatever level they choose, so long as they maintain the ratio.

An annual premium that goes from $5000 to $8000 is perfectly acceptable under the law, so long as the 85/15 ratio is maintained.

[Skraxx]

23. Except fees will not go up

And you have no evidence they will. Your baseless uninformed assertions don't count.

Fact- procedure fees are inflated due to uninsured and denials.
Fact- There will be less uninsured and less denials
Ergo-fees will not increase

[SickOfTheOnePct]

25. Keep on believing that

And we'll talk again in three years.

Increased demand and static supply will always result in increased fees.

[Skraxx]

26. IOW you still have no facts so you've deferred

Got it.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

32. You first

Where's your proof that denials and the uninsured are the major cause of physicians increased fees? Uninsured patients are a big piece, no doubt, but denials? Most doctors won't perform the procedures if there is a denial.

[Skraxx]

44. oy vey, denials are often subsequent events

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. Not true ...

The wait time might increase; but premiums won't increase because doctors can only see X# of patients a day (and the doctors are already at capacity ... thinks to insurance company rules) ... rising price are a means for controlling (reducing) demand.

[Skraxx]

28. You cant reduce demand for healthcare

It's not a blender.

That's the whole point for implementing cost controllable via other methods, such as the MLR.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

34. MLR doesn't force cost control

It's a really simple concept...they can't increase premiums unless costs are increasing. But if costs increase, they can raise premiums in conjunction with those increases, so long as they maintain the ratio.

[Skraxx]

46. What makes cost increase in the current system?

Answer: uninsured and denials are by far the major factor.

ACA deals with these factors. Not ideally, but still effectively.

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. That's my point ...

healthcare (on the national scale) is not like products and services where there is a supply/demand price equilibrium.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

36. Like I said previously

Let's meet again in four years and discuss this. I'm betting that insurance premiums will have skyrocketed by then.

[Skraxx]

47. The last resort of a fact free asserter: lets talk in four years!

LOL. No, talk to CBO now, unless you think they are full of shit.

[October]

51. All opinions.

[Sirveri]

60. Those 35 Million are already impacting the system.

They are already getting health care in the most expensive way possible and dumping the costs onto the insured.

[dionysus]

61. wouldn't single payer, the better option, also flood the system with ten of millions of more people?

with the same number of doctors, that would burdert he system too.

[Puzzledtraveller]

9. What rebates?

[Skraxx]

10. From insurance companies

They have to spend 85% of their revenue on healthcare or give rebates. Checks are coming soon. It's the law of the land.

[Puzzledtraveller]

12. HA, you really believe you will get a check from

the insurance companies? Who are you working for?

[Skraxx]

14. Yes, It's The Law Now

I know it for a fact. Unless you have evidence otherwise, you're spouting nonsense.

[leftstreet]

15. When will the first checks be disbursed? Is it alphabetical?

Or by state, or what?

[Skraxx]

18. Not sure, but soon

I'm sure if you Google u can probably figure it out.

[leftstreet]

33. How soon? What date? Will the IRS send them?

Who is giving out the rebates?

Will they be in the form of cash, or credits?

There's nothing on Google

[femmocrat]

37. Found this on Google:

Obamacare support may rise when health insurance rebate checks arrive
Washington : DC : USA | Jun 28, 2012 at 3:43 PM PDT


"The Obama Administration was not alone in benefiting from today’s U.S. Supreme Court ruling that upheld the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. Policyholders already enjoying the benefits of the Affordable Care Act will be getting rebate checks, as soon as August.

"“An estimated $1.3 billion will be doled out to individuals and small businesses under a clause in the Affordable Care Act,” according to Business Insider.

"The Obamacare rebate checks are part of a provision in the health care law that requires insurance companies to use 80 percent of collected premiums on medical services. If they don’t, they have to send rebates to policyholders for the difference.

"In other words, the profits of private insurance companies are limited by Obamacare, which is why Republicans beholden to insurance and drug company lobbyists have generated so much negative spin against the health insurance law."

More at link: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/12483880-obamacare-support-may-rise-when-health-insurance-rebate-checks-arrive

[maddezmom]

45. thanks for the link....

[sad sally]

50. Here's another one with the numbers in each state and how much they'll get.

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/reports/mlr-rebates06212012a.html

[shcrane71]

53. Try this link:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/21/pf/health-care-rebates/index.htm

[Control-Z]

35. For one, Floridians

will receive their refunds by August 1, 2012.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-21/health/os-florida-insurance-rebates-20120621_1_premium-dollars-robert-zirkelbach-total-rebate

[Puzzledtraveller]

17. I'm sorry but your comments sound like a PSA

designed to make the p.o.s. ACA look appetizing. It is a corruption of law, made possible by comlpicity between corporate interests and our bought and paid for so called leaders.

[Skraxx]

20. LOL! Ahh yes, now the ad hominems start

Because you lack the facts and are too lazy to actually discover them.

[Puzzledtraveller]

22. Not lazy, don't care to, because my mind is made up.

[Skraxx]

24. LOL- That says it all doesnt it? Facts be damned!

You've already made up yr mind!

Now where have I heard that before?

[scheming daemons]

29. What a freeptastic thing to say.

"I don't care what the facts are, and I don't care to find out. Even if checks start going out to people, I wont believe it because my mind is made up
."

[DocMac]

59. You must be joking. Wow! nt

[Control-Z]

39. I've helped the lazy Puzzledtraveller

in post #35 up thread.

I love when people make up their mind based on their own opinion. "Forget about the facts." lol.

Welcome to DU, Skraxx. You are the kind of member we need more of.

[Skraxx]

48. Thx! Perhaps he will be less puzzled

Though somehow I doubt it.

[phleshdef]

52. I don't just think it. I KNOW it. 1 billion in rebates coming this year.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/21/pf/health-care-rebates/index.htm

Facts are stubborn little things aren't they?

[Puzzledtraveller]

40. I know what you are talking about now, but

Your statements are misleading. I am a state employee, our rebate was kept as a credit to the state. No check, nada for me.

[Lex]

55. It was enlightening, though, yes?

Seemed to be.

[Skraxx]

57. Well Then, Fuck It, Cuz It Doesn't Benefit YOU

Personally, right?

And of course, you're SURE you wont's see any of that, right?

[Little Star]

27. What's the story on the donut hole seniors keep falling into for their meds???...

I heard something about that when they were talking about the "Obamacare" passage today.

Anybody know if that problem will be solved and if so when?

[Skraxx]

30. ACA solved it, if ussc struco aca down it would have been reinstated

Not a problem now. Donuts remains closed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. If my employer pays my premiums, will I get a rebate?

Or will it go to my employer?

[Puzzledtraveller]

41. I'm a state employee, they kept our as a credit

The OP is misleading.

[Control-Z]

43. It goes to your employer.

If you share the cost he/she forwards any applicable amount to you.

[shcrane71]

54. Welcome to DU Skraxx!

Thanks for all the info.

[Blue_In_AK]

56. Only 2700 rebates are being handed out in Alaska.

There are almost 700,000 people in the state. I won't be holding my breath waiting for a check.

[Skraxx]

58. Well Then! Fuck It, Right?

Cuz you ain't getting a check.

[Blue_In_AK]

62. I'm sorry I missed this.

I've been on vacation. I did not say that.


But you carry on with your bad self.