I haven't followed this Cory Baker thing very closely.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

But I can think of nothing lower than raising money under false pretenses. It means less money for people in need. It also casts a negative light on community and has decent folks questioning each others motives.



Carry on...

[obamanut2012]

1. All the many TTW threads over the years have made me cynical

I have read this gentleman's FB was active and he was posting on it. I've been very busy lately, and have just been skimming these threads.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. Oh, yes. TTW.

That brings back memories.

[msanthrope]

43. Yeah...tell me about it. nt

[MichMary]

2. Is it possible

that his account here was hacked?

[Skidmore]

3. Is this being reported as a crime? nt

[mnhtnbb]

7. I made a report to gofundme that it was a fraudulent fundraiser because

I posted the phone number at University Hospital in Columbus to call patient information and find out if he
was a patient there. Contact was made and the hospital said no patient by that name was there.


I have had communication back from gofundme--they are investigating it as fraud--and they encourage reporting to local law enforcement.

Presumably, that would be the Montgomery County Sheriff (where Dayton is located) and the accident was supposed to have happened, yet the supposed person in charge who presented himself as Corey's brother, Aaron, lists Corey's home as Richmond, IN. on the gofundme page. So...what local law enforcement would handle this?

I'm not going to do anything more on this.

If people who made donations want to contact gofundme to get their donations returned, they should start here: https://www.gofundme.com/guarantee

[Ms. Toad]

11. Not making an assessment as to whether this is legitimate or not -

but HIPAA prohibits hospitals from disclosing whether a patient is there or not, without the consent of the patient.

[mnhtnbb]

18. That is not correct. I am a retired hospital administrator

and I can tell you that hospitals are allowed by HIPAA to disclose

the following information without obtaining prior patient authorization
UNLESS the patient has specifically indicated no information is to be disclosed.

Name—Information can be released to those people (media included) who ask for the patient by name. Information cannot be released to an individual unless that person knows the patient’s name.
Condition—A one-word explanation of the patient's condition can be released.
Location within the hospital—As long as prohibited information is not revealed, such as the patient being treated for substance abuse, the location can be released.


Hospitals have the option to play this one of two ways: they can write their policy to disclose the allowed patient info UNLESS a patient has specifically told them not to to disclose any info: OR, they write their policy to NOT disclose anything UNLESS they have obtained consent allowing release of information.


https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/faq/483/does-hipaa-permit-hospitals-to-inform-visitors-about-a-patients-location/index.html

[Ms. Toad]

20. It still requires patient consent

via an active opt out (patient is expressly informed about what information will be routinely provided, and given the option to opt out) OR it can be an active opt in.

It may well be that the consent is buried in the privacy policies that are pretty much a joke. (I can count on one hand the number of times that I have been given the HIPAA privacy notice that says I have been given (or shown) a copy of the privacy policy when I actually haven't been given (or shown) a copy - even though I've been through the HIPPA privacy routine probably 50 times since HIPAA became law.

But practicalities aside, the law requires medical providers to inform the patient of the policy AND give them the right to opt out of even the routine census information you listed above, which means that it requires consent (by virtue of the signature on the privacy policy that informs you of the policy and your right to opt out). If you choose not to opt out, you have passively given your consent. That's how opt out policies work. You don't opt out - legally you have consented.

It is not a matter of consent v. non-consent as you have suggested; it is a matter of whether the consent was obtained actively or passively.

[mnhtnbb]

23. I never suggested it was a matter of non-consent, however, you will notice if you go to the link

that in cases where a patient is not alert or able to give consent, the consent is presumed to be approval of providing the limited
info until the patient is able to complete the consent forms.

Yes, all these forms are standard when being admitted.

The practicality is that anyone may phone the hospital--as a DU'er did last night--and ask if a patient by the name of xxxx (or in this case, Corey Baker)
was a patient there. The hospital replied they had no patient by that name. That is, in all probability, a reliable answer. It was an easy way to verify the
story since the information provided in the gofundme was that the person was a patient at the hospital.

It is not correct to suggest that people shouldn't bother to call the hospital to ask if someone is a patient because the hospital won't be able to release the information. In some cases, they won't be able to release info IF the patient has specifically not consented to release of ANY info, but in most cases, they will be able to give information on whether someone is a patient, where they are located, and a one word status of the patient's condition.

[Ms. Toad]

24. Actually, you did.

I said it required consent (which, legally it does), and you said, "That is not correct"

But the bigger point is that the answer is not reliable unless you get an affirmative answer that they are there.

When you get a negative answer, you know that (1) they are not there, (2) the patient is there, the hospital has an opt in policy, and the patient has not opted in or (3) the patient is there, the hospital has an opt out policy, and the patient opted out.

It really doesn't tell you anything and - in this case - the volume of amateur sleuths is probably driving the hospital to distraction.

[mnhtnbb]

34. You don't play the odds, do you?

Most hospitals take the route that is easiest for patients and staff. Forms are signed on admission and
patients are encouraged to allow the hospital to list them in a directory because that way friends/family/visitors/florists
know where to find the patient. It is NOT true--as I saw others assert in threads about this situation--that hospitals can't give out
any information because of HIPAA. They can and do routinely give out allowed information when consent forms have been signed on admission OR
when a patient is clinically unable to give consent and staff presume that the patient would give consent if able.

We're going back and forth over the issue of consent or implied consent or at what point in time someone signed forms that gave consent.

We're going back and forth over a situation where a presumably critical patient was transferred (BS, I didn't believe that) from a Level 1 Trauma Center
in Dayton to University Hospital in Columbus, which is also a Level 1 Trauma Center and farther away from family. (There is only one Level 1 Trauma Center in Dayton). The transfer seems questionable (although possible) but what wouldn't make sense would be for Corey to opt out of the consent process, or for a Level 1 Trauma Center to have an opt in policy because they would get so many questions about critical patients.

I'm going to go with door #1 (the patient is not there) when I've been told by the patient's brother the patient is at University Hospital, but I'm beginning
to suspect the whole thing is bogus and a call is made to which the hospital responds there is no patient here with that name. Why would he opt out of confirming his location if he's trying to raise money? Makes no sense. Why would a Level 1 Trauma Center have an opt-in policy which is a nightmare for staff to administer in responding to questions about trauma patients? Makes no sense.

Hospitals really are staffed by people who aren't so easily driven to distraction by a few people trying to track down whether someone is a patient there.

[Maru Kitteh]

25. I have reported the incident to the Richmond, IN police dept. nt

[Blue_Tires]

4. I wasn't going to say anything

but I've been here since early '03 and "Cory Baker" rang zero bells in my memory... And him posting a thread in LBN was a red flag attached to a fire truck siren...

[safeinOhio]

9. There has to be more to this story.

2 or 3 years ago I exchanged emails with him about the Ohio Democratic Spring dinner. I was there and he claimed to be there also. Didn't see anything to make me think different.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. For me too

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

31. What made me suspicious was that he had been a member for so long

but didn't seem to have posted all that much over the years.

[Blue_Tires]

32. Well there are a lot of those types out there for one reason or another

some are legit, but most are typically alt accounts for trolling

[alarimer]

5. I began to be suspicious when I saw it was posted multiple times.

The same text all over the site. That seemed odd to me.

[ahimsa]

21. Plus the timeline was very short

Accident happened on one day - gofundme posted that evening saying that bills were being shut off and rent was due. That made no sense at all.

[Corgigal]

6. Happens all the time.

The desperation angle was the key.

So, plenty of DU'ers have extra disposable income. Sucks to be them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. It sucks even more for the truly desperate person who will be disbelieved.

[Corgigal]

10. DU'ers helped me

Maybe ten years ago to save my corgidog when she had a bout with cancer. This too shall pass.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. You have to have a black heart to scam people.

[Corgigal]

13. True

But we also had some disposable income, or they wouldn't be "helped". So you get scammed every now and then, at least you were a good person to try to assist. I think that matters more. It shows a different level of civilized human.

Them, whatever. We have a peace in our soul, they slap each other's back for stealing money. Enjoy those big bucks, criminality has risks that I never engage in.

[demtenjeep]

26. Me to in the last few months

and a couple years ago for a blanket drive for my students

[chillfactor]

27. same here..

DUers a few years back helped me pay my rent so I did not end up on the street. After that my finances were in better shape as I actually had an address to give to employers and got another job.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. I admire those who gave

Even if this is a scam, generosity and lacking cynicism are great traits.

[mopinko]

22. something i have internalized lately about myself.

i never used to give to pan handlers. i had an alcoholic father, and to me it was enabling.
i still rarely give to those sitting outside an establishment that sells booze, but i have started passing out a buck or 2 most of the time.

a while back i had a woman come up to me in tears. long story short, i gave her what i had, and i asked if she wanted a hug. got a huge one. to me, that hug was a great hug, even if the tears were an act.

i see it a little more as folks giving me a chance to do something good for a fellow human. i know in some places giving alms is considered a duty, and those that ask for them are seen the same way.

like a certain great pres once said- cynicism is a sorry form of wisdom.

[kcr]

33. Yes, absolutely.

It wasn't anything to mock or look down on. These scammers are soon shown for who they are. It doesn't change the fact that our community is filled with good people who have helped real people in need.

[mopinko]

16. looks to me like gfm took it down?

i had an email w a link to post to fb, but when it comes up, it is just on the front page, not on that campaign.

is this right?

[mnhtnbb]

19. No, I just checked the gofundme account is still active.

[Kimchijeon]

17. I don't know.

On the one hand, who can remember every poster throughout the years? I've been on DU since 2001, but very rarely post (this is a new username obviously). I am heartwarmed that if someone has a need we would reach out and offer help. I know there have been shady instances in the past, so I understand the skepticism.

In any case if someone is in dire straights I hope they get the help they need.

[carburyme]

29. I can relate to your post

Been here since 2001 too and a very active reader and follower of everyone's post. I admire how kind this community is and it's contagious to say the least that I was getting ready to fork up some of my hard earned buck to contribute to the cause of this so called faithful Duer and democrat but I wont let this incident stop me from attempting to give to someone here who will express a dire need in the future..

[salin]

35. me three

came in Jan 2002. Posted frequently for several years - and have never stopped reading daily. Might not be interactive in the community to the degree that I once was, but I still feel a part of the community. I really couldn't help at this time, but I was considering figuring out how to scrimp to do so. I remember Andy who needed help and who was hounded in a time when he shouldn't have had to deal with that. Skepticism is healthy. Checking things out is wise. Immediately assuming the worse about calls is not healthy.

[SoCalDem]

37. me four

I rarely post anymore, but I do follow ... and I have donated in the past,(donated $1300.00 to Andy Stephenson's surgery) but since our Calif house has not sold yet and we pay humongo property taxes here (3800.00 a year), we are pretty tapped out these days..

Here is Washington state

[salin]

38. Hey you!

I missed that you moved from So Cal. Hope (aside from getting the house to sell) that all is well. I migrated, too - but a much smaller distance (50 miles south still in Indiana) and was lucky to sell (really hot neighborhood being rehabbed) quickly.

[SoCalDem]

40. Yep

Our son & his Gf broke up and since our only grandchild (their daughter) lives in Kent Washington. we decided that of we were to ever get to know her and see her, we needed to move..

We found a charming little town (Centralia), and now that we have recovered from the actual move, we are loving it.. It's like a time capsule here...almost expect to bump into Barney Fife.. Tons of Mom & Pop restaurants..no malls..all the "modern stuff" is outside of the town, The central part of town has been lovingly restored/preserved..

We "downsized" from our 1800 sq ft CA home to a house built in 1946... It has 3224 Sq Ft on the mail level and 3224 downstairs in the finished basement.. We FINALLY have space left over

I never realized you were in indiana..we lived in Michigan City for 7 years ...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. It makes sense to be cautious and be sure the request is legit before donating.

You don't have to assume automatically that they are scams, but always at least consider the possibility that they could be. It is not unkind to request more information - it can be done without making accusations. If the reason for the request is that someone has been injured in an accident, as in this case, look for a link to a news report. Look for information about where it occurred (so local police can be contacted if necessary). Look for other social media information. If you are the person making a request for yourself or someone else, include enough independently-verifiable information that potential donors can confirm the basis for the request and don't feel nervous about donating.

When I reread the original DU posts as well as the Gofundme request, I was struck by how the poster never offered to verify any of the information, but instead ratcheted up the alleged desperation and the amount of money needed, and accused doubters of being unkind and insensitive. It just wasn't passing the smell test.

And don't let the requester or other DUers shame you for being skeptical or cautious. Everybody wants to be helpful, but there are, unfortunately, people who prey on the kind impulses of others. Be careful and don't allow yourself to be guilted into contributing to one of these requests unless you're sure it's real. You are entitled to know that you aren't giving your money to a crook.

[bathroommonkey76]

36. I contacted the Montgomery County Sheriff's Dept tonight

and asked them to look into this GFM page.

I also posted the links from DU in the email that I sent, if I hear anything more I will post in GD.

[mnhtnbb]

39. Good for you. I just checked and the GFM page is still active

but has had no updates from the "brother" since the campaign was questioned here on DU as a fraud.

[bathroommonkey76]

41. "Campaign is complete and no longer active."

At least that what it says on his GFM page-- I wonder if the cops shut it down?!?

"Donors can sign in to view additional information."


https://www.gofundme.com/27-year-old-injured-in-car-accident

[mnhtnbb]

42. Glad to see it shut down--happened since I checked this morning.

[bathroommonkey76]

44. It is great news.

I plan on going after a couple of more GFM pages in the next couple of days. GoFundMe should be used by people who really need it and not by those who are looking for an easy handout.