This is so messed up: Trump didn't win.

[C Moon]

The election was a fraud.
Clinton should be President.
Yet the congress, senate, FBI, CIA won't do anything about it—even though we all know the truth.
Our country had a weak link, and Putin found it.
I think he found it by watching the GOP steal the 2000 and 2004 elections. I'm sure it goes deeper than that.
But to me the simple fact is: Trump was not elected—and the house and senate races were fucked with, as well.

[democratisphere]

1. Constitutional Crisis in the making.

[Canoe52]

11. My opinion (for what that's worth)

Is that either tRump and his cabinet fold like a house of cards, or we no longer will have a democracy in this country.

What do you all think, give it 2 days and then we'll be able to see which way it's falling?

Or does anyone want to call it now?

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. Color me jaded, I don't think that Benedict tRump, CO, will fold like a house of cards.

[Canoe52]

19. The alternative is going to be a real bitch.

No smilies this time, I'm just not in a smilies mood.

[anarch]

25. I suspect it will be a partial collapse

I don't see how the orange shitgibbon figurehead stays, but Pence probably will...which may have been the R's end-game from the start, those who were aware of the collusion but not directly involved (McConnell & Ryan, at least, I would suspect).

As far as saving the Republic...it's not going to be easy, but I think it can be done, if we get more people engaged in the political process and fix some of the things that allowed this travesty to happen (such as the election process itself, the gerrymandering, and the suppression of non-white votes in some areas). This will indeed take years, probably decades to fix, and it's by no means a sure thing--it will require people to actively care about saving their country, and I'm not so sure about a large percentage of the population.

Either way, Putin's goals are accomplished...U.S. power and credibility has been diminished, probably beyond the point of recovery, and domestically we will be a mess for a long time to come. The government's in shambles, and the confidence of the American people is shattered. Russia "wins," for whatever that winds up being worth to them...perhaps the Balkans, and likely a bunch of oil money (especially if Tillerson stays in place--he's kind of the key guy to the real conspiracy, I think...).

Even if the entire criminal junta falls apart and is thrown out of office, we've basically already lost the war...and there are so many brainwashed morons and/or white nationalist assholes that will still defend the criminal Republican scum. There's no way out; much of the damage is already done. We don't necessarily need to start completely from scratch, but it's going to be a long road back to any real resemblance of the democratic nation we are supposed to be.

[Control-Z]

2. I have thought this since election night

and there has been nothing to change my thinking. When I read or hear people talk about how to win 2018, how as a party we need to change, in my mind I just scream. We had the best nominee any of us could ever have imagined. So unbelievably qualified. And honest. As honest a a politician gets. But we didn't have a fair election. That is what needs to change. Not in 2018. Now.

Everyone knows it but it seems everyone wants to argue that there is nothing we can do about. People here on this board actually say he "won" the election. He did not. And the only way to honestly, fairly and justly rectify this nightmare is to put the popular winner in office where she belongs.

[C Moon]

3. And like after 2000, if we don't clean things up, we are doomed to repeat.

[calimary]

17. Same here, m'dear.

I CANNOT get around this one stark reality: that we now have a puppet installed in OUR White House by a hostile foreign power.

trump "won" that election by ONE vote: Vladimir Putin's.

[BlueMTexpat]

21. So have I.

Every day since has been an ongoing and seemingly endless nightmare.

I shall persist in resisting this coup.

[UCmeNdc]

4. This is true

The United States should throw out all of its electronic voting machines. They are compromised.

For 2018. Vote with pen and paper ballots. Put the system in place starting now. Slow but it is more verifiable than computers right now.

[Crash2Parties]

5. California's ballots are paper, tallied by computer. It is accurate, secure and can be audited.

[UCmeNdc]

9. The whole country needs that system.

[SammyWinstonJack]

20. The repukes can't win that way and they know that. They're the ones trying AND succeeding

to make it harder to vote, to suppress votes and stealing elections with whatever means necessary.

[BlueCaliDem]

10. California is almost 100% Democratic - that's why there's no fraud and every ballot

is verifiable.

I'm certain that if ALL States took California's example, there'd be a helluva lot less Republicans in Congress, let alone dominating our House and Senate, and most definitely no Republicans in the White House again.

[Kimchijeon]

37. Very, very true.

[elehhhhna]

27. Scanned can be programmed however you like.

Eyeballs not so much.

Most precincts in the US have ~2000 registered voters. The largest have less than 3000. And half vote. We do not need vapor ballots. Hand count paper, period.

[Crash2Parties]

39. Hand counting is far less accurate than scan tron.

I get the feeling you haven't actually seen our systems, or the procedures in place, or how they can be tested for accuracy and audited. In 2004, we revamped the system, including decertifying a number of voting machine models & systems that were insecure.

There's a chain of custody not only for the ballots and machines before the election, but after as well. We also are transparent about every aspect of the machines, including the programming and testing. For instance,

Each qualified political party may employ, and have present at the central counting place or places, not more than two representatives to check and review the preparation and operation of the tabulating devices, their programming and testing, and have the representatives in attendance at any or all phases of the election. (§ 15004(a).)

Any bona fide association of citizens or a media organization may employ, and may have present at the central counting place or places, not more than two representatives to check and review the preparation and operation of the tabulating devices, their programming and testing, and have the representatives in attendance at any or all phases of the election. (§ 15004(b).)

And, all of our transparency is up on the web so you can check it yourself.

[lagomorph777]

34. Paper ballots are not slow.

We use them in my county. Yes they are optically scanned and computer tabulated, but there is a physical paper trail, so problems can (in theory) be found and rectified.

[byronius]

6. The hack of DU was an overt message directed at all of us.

Chilled me to the bone, and brought out violent feelings in me.

How I hate the international brotherhood of mean-minded racist fucks. How I long to know they have disappeared from the species.

[C Moon]

7. Wow. Intl. brotherhood of mean-minded racist fucks. That one will stick wiith me.

[UCmeNdc]

13. The hack of DU was directed because

DU provided a form of real time intelligence on vote counting progress. Although the DU readers who followed and reported the vote counts here on DU are unofficial, they did provide a written record that other people could look back on for information. DU provided a written timeline on voting progress.

If you planned to flipp the vote counts during the night, DU vote counters might expose the inconsistent counting.

Boom take DU out of the equation

[byronius]

28. [phone].

[Kimchijeon]

38. Yeah I know, although I sadly wish I could say

I was surprised.... but it was almost expected.

[butdiduvote]

8. What upsets me the most is they don't give a rat's ass what THE PEOPLE want.

They've got their slimy hands on the levers of power, and they will cling to those levers for dear life, citing the constitution they have crapped all over the past few months (years, really) as justification for why they get to keep their position.

I voted for Hillary Clinton. More voters voted for Hillary Clinton. Even more voters would have happily voted for Hillary Clinton had it not been for a concerted effort by a foreign government to damage public opinion of her, and it turns out THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WAS AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT IN THAT EFFORT. This is not giving the public what it truly wants. This is not democratic. If these sociopaths cared about the country, they would say, hey, we may not agree with Hillary Clinton on ideological matters, but this election was not fair to her nor her supporters; regardless of what we personally think, her vision for the country is what the people wanted. At the very least, we cannot say if her vision is what the people truly wanted because it was near-impossible for them to discern who she really was and what she stood for with all of the propaganda.

But they won't. They don't give a fuck about the country. They don't give a fuck about me. They care about power and giving their donors their promised goodies. They care about preserving their party of bigots that was about to be completely obsolete until Trump and the Russians propped it back up.

FUCK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

[C Moon]

12. Yes!!!

[narnian60]

16. Well said!

[raccoon]

23. Well said! That's my opinion of the Republican party too. Welcome to DU. nt

[cer7711]

14. Indeed! The "slow-moving coup" Bill Maher warned us about . . .

. . . was entirely successful.

The question now is: What are we prepared to do about it?

This cannot, must not--stand.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

15. What does the Federalist Society think about one party rule?

The majority of the SCOTUS is made up of Federalists.

"... The supporters of the proposed Constitution called themselves "Federalists." Their adopted name implied a commitment to a loose, decentralized system of government."

I think the GOP has decided the Democratic Party no longer exists. And the powerful are fine with that. Whether Putin taught him or her figured it out from history, the press is the opposition and Dems are taken for dead.

Hoping the protests gather strength, support and a coherent message for what Democracy is.

[malaise]

22. He stole it - they stole it

History will absolve me - they rigged it with Russian help.
From he started screaming about rigging some of us were suspicious.
He will be exposed.

[stopbush]

26. This x 1000

[flamingdem]

29. Dems have been too gullible about voting

We'll continue to have our votes stolen until that becomes a priority

[JudyM]

32. Too focused on other things. Including currying favor with donors, IMO.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

30. I Agree, But Here's The Silver Lining

If Hillary had overcome all the dirty tricks and actually been sworn in as President, she'd be facing impeachment hearings RIGHT NOW (and they probably would have been filed WEEKS ago--probably days after her taking the oath). And you know after watching this cowardly Republican Congress approve ALL of Drumpf's incompetent/unqualified appointments that they would have no problem voting in favor of impeachment in the House and then conviction in the Senate. They would have never allowed Hillary to do her job anyway. So in a way, it's almost better that this is happening, because Drumpf and his clown car are doing SO MUCH damage to the Republican brand right now that they're going to lose elections all over the country for the forseeable future. We may even be able to ride this wave to taking back the Congress in 2018, and then when we get back the White House in 2020, we can REALLY change things for the better.

It burns me up that a supremely qualified woman "lost" to the most incompetent buffoon to ever run for office, but with good leadership (and hopefully we can find some of that, for once) we can ride this wave to something HUGE.

[NCTraveler]

31. I don't know it to be the truth.

I do suspect it. That is why I wish we had competent bodies that would investigate.

[Blue_Tires]

33. The fact of the matter remains that even with all of this against us

if we could have squeezed out one-tenth of one percentage point of Dem voters in the so-called rust belt, none of this happens...

[Hawaii Hiker]

35. Sometimes i wonder would all this have happened if Scalia didn't die

Seriously. repubs were soooooooo worried about his seat being filled by a Democratic president that they would pull every punch to make sure a GOPer filled it....I mean, there is always SCOTUS nomination talk in a presidential election but this was an actual opening...And despite Merrick Garland being a consensus pick, I knew he never get confirmed....

Republicans knew they had to steal the 2016 election and would do WHATEVER it took to make sure Scalia was replaced with another hard line righty....

[Calculating]

36. That's a big part of it

Plenty of Republicans weren't thrilled with Trump, but they held their nose and pulled the lever so they could maintain control over the SCOTUS. They were absolutely TERRIFIED that Hillary would appoint an anti-2A justice to the SCOTUS, and that Heller vs DC would be overturned or something.

Meanwhile, many dems were all like "ehh I just don't know if I really like Hillary. I think I'll vote Jill Stein to send a message or leave that slot blank".

[LaydeeBug]

40. THANK YOU! Some of us have been saying this from jump and gotten a LOT of flack for it

Thank you for being you.

[triron]

41. How much I agree with you is beyond my words to describe.

Wished the people would throw out this bastard and invite Hillary to take office,

[mvd]

42. K&R

The odds of the election turning out the way it did was either the result of extremely bad luck or a stolen election. I think it was stolen, given what we know about the Russian connections. Maybe after Trump is brought down on his corruption and treasonous ways, we can look into the voting further. Even though I felt Clinton made mistakes and didn't connect much with me other than being clearly better than Trump, she still won IMO. She should be President, which she worked so hard for.

[Lucinda]

43. Yep.

I don't know what could ever convince me otherwise, I certainly haven't seen anything yet...

[triron]

44. kick for visibility