I'm suspecting something re: Pence. Can I run it by you?

[calimary]

I am NO expert and

I think there's a quiet effort to immunize Mike Pence. Notice how much the chattering class talks about how this scandal's biggest sin is hanging Pence out to dry, that it all came tumbling down because Mike Flynn lied to poor Mike Pence? It's like - after all we've seen so far, what's really tipped things over the edge was when somebody was bad to Mike Pence. I feel almost like I'm being gently nudged that way. I can't help feeling that Mike Pence is being spun as the victim here.

Which COULD mean that the real puppet masters here are taking preliminary and cautionary steps toward impeachment. And not just impeachment, but the one-two punch of impeachment-and-removal. It's the removal part that's key here. I'm wondering if the real powers here are maneuvering toward removing The Donald which they and we all know will mean Mike Pence moves up. President Pence.

I've noticed articles popping up here and there regarding how Mike Pence is the real dream-president republi-CONS have yearned for, all along. Only one man stands in the way of finally achieving that dream: trump. If they can replace him, the understudy is right there, and he's adamant about rolling back all sorts of annoying "rights" for people who don't look or copulate like us. He's sure done a number as Indiana governor. Indiana is trying to recover as I'm writing this. Evidently, as I've read, he left things in such terrible shape that it's actually the GOPers in the state legislature who are now busily undoing his "legacy."

I am starting to notice a gnawing feeling that things are already being set up, toward placing that last stone in the archway, so they can safely walk through it to start tearing down everything that's been put in place in government to level the playing field and help those in need since the New Deal. I wonder if they've started quietly humming "Some Day My Prince Will Come" to themselves. They've been dreaming of this opportunity for decades.

Or am I all wet?

I'd love to know what you think.

[jmg257]

1. Comes down to who are the real puppet masters (if not russia) and why would they want Pence.

Your guesses as good as mine.

[Laffy Kat]

2. Ummm...

I think you're right on.

[marylandblue]

3. Yes, that's exactly what they are doing

They were hoping they could get what they wanted out of Trump, but he is simply too incompetent, so Pence is a more than acceptable substitute.

[Lars39]

4. Heh, the only thing I've been thinking differently is "innoculate" instead of "immunize".

[GP6971]

5. Kick

and off to the Greatest Threads!

[PoliticAverse]

6. I think the Republicans would be much more comfortable having Pence as President than Trump...

however you'd have to consider whether they'd believe that an impeachment would make it more or less
likely they'd retain control of congress after 2018.

[DK504]

26. This article is so right on the spot.

Pence, poor, poor Pence was "lied" to by Flynn, Pence has been in on all the Security Briefings and he heard for himself that there were possibly illegal activity by this guy.

If the Rethugs have a brain between them they will go after this like a rabid dog. Somehow I don't think they will. They are leaving themselves open to get trounced. This is the time to begin the 2018 elections races for all democrats to hunker down and go door to door and kick all those colluding traitors out.

[calimary]

59. Indeed. I suspect that some of 'em are hanging back in the same way as

those who hope that the health problem that's becoming troublesome will just go away if they cross their fingers and pretend it just isn't happening. The whole "nothing to see here..." syndrome.

Denial runs awfully deep with some people.

Some of 'em, I'd guess, might not want to rock the boat, or maybe they feel it's not a favorable time to so at the moment, because, well, shit! It took us EIGHT WHOLE YEARS to get the White House back! Maybe we can just hunker down and hold on tight, and let 'er rider awhile.

Maybe if they ignored long enough, it'll just go away, or as Jason Chaffetz would put say, thinking there's no need to do anything about it - "it'll take care of itself."

[Eyeball_Kid]

72. Pence has a big problem as president. He's got zero charisma. He's a dead fish.

He's your favorite undertaker. Yes, he's first in the line of succession, but he's be in charge of a severely weakened executive branch.
If he get in the president's seat, he'll be as ineffective and as "unfavorable" as Trumpy, maybe more so.

[workinclasszero]

94. Nixon was a dead fish too

And W Bush was uh not the sharpest knife in the drawer so...

[lastlib]

95. Not with a GOPee Congress.....

He would be the true-believer conservatard's wet dream: a guy with enough functioning neurons to, as Norquist (I believe) so artfully put it, "hold the pen," and sign what the GOPee Congress put in front of him.
Yeah, he's a dead fish, but he could fulfill the GOPhers' wildest and wettest dreams.

And as such, he's damn dangerous.

[Warren DeMontague]

103. He's also way outside the mainstream of American thought and opinion.

He thinks gay people should be "cured" with electroshock therapy, and doesn't understand why condoms aren't illegal.

[Chellee]

7. Oh absolutely.

Pence is a known thing. He's one of them. They can work with him. DT is just a constantly out of control firework. God only know how much damage he's going to do to them. They would much rather have Pence in charge.

[lindysalsagal]

8. If you're right, I'll settle for Pence at this point.

Because this chaos leaves us vulnerable to other international forces.

We're in no shape to handle anything right now: natural disasters, trade, banking, terror, nothing.

We need basic functions, which we don't have. If Pence can make us a viable state, fine.

We can undo his social regressions in the future.

[flygal]

28. I'd settle as well if it meant getting rid of the current nazis trump put in running things.

[The Sand Reckoner]

51. Which is exactly what the Republicans want

They're hoping everyone will think..."Thank god..anyone but Trump!", even though Pence is a hard-core right winger who will continue the Republican agenda without missing a beat.

[calimary]

57. Welcome to DU, The Sand Reckoner!

Yeah, there is that as well. Probably a few "well, at least he won't get us nuked" too!

These folks sold their souls to get the White House back. ANYTHING to get the White House back! But it's turning out to be one of those "be careful what you wish for" things.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Yeah, but they won't come out of this unscathed.

They either have to "betray" the Trumpkins or cover for Trump.

[manicraven]

96. I think they'll frame it in such a way that even many Trumpkins will be at least compliant.

And they'll get Faux News to help...

[Warren DeMontague]

101. No way. They're gonna think this was another plot by Establishment Joooos or something.

On the upside it will force a divorce between them and the architecture of the Republican party.

But my predictions have been for shit. I thought Hillary was gonna trounce him (at least, for most of the electoral season) and I thought the GOP was already fucked. So I could fully completely be entirely wrong.

[HurricaneWarning]

75. I'm with you on this.

[drmeow]

99. Its a choice between

preserving some rights or preserving our democracy. If they impeach and remove, we have to make sure that the newly active stay active with Pence in so that he can't quietly f**k us just as bad!

[Siwsan]

9. I've thought this, all along

He always seemed such an odd pick for the ticket. Pence doesn't have the 'personality' to attract the rabid trump* type voter so the only way to slide him in is letting him take over for trump*. I have a bad feeling that Mike 'Torquomada' Pence will be the replacement POTUS, before the end of the year.

[calimary]

55. Except that when trump first picked him, what crossed my mind was in line with

what I've surmised about him over the years - how appearances are SOOOOO important to him. Other people's appearance. Either gender but female especially. He was ragging on our little friend Sean Spicer about his appearance and style of dress, for example. I've even read that appearances often slam-dunk somebody into the victory column, all other things being equal. For example, I read that he picked Gorsuch for the Supreme Court because Gorsuch LOOKS LIKE what trump must think a Supreme Court justice looks like.

And when I saw Pence I thought -

SHEESH!!! I'll bet he picked this guy as a dog whistle reach-out to his hardcore white nationalist base, to reassure them that they could finally, and literally, turn the page on the previous eight years. After Barack Obama, he was gonna find them the whitest-looking white guy in the world to run with. Mike Pence has got to be the whitest white guy I've ever seen, this side of an albino!

[Eyeball_Kid]

74. Remember? It was Russian spy Paul Manafort who arranged for Pence to be chosen over

Chris Christie.

[madaboutharry]

10. Very possible.

However, I do not believe for one minute that Pence was out of the loop. I think it is a ruse. And saying he was lied to by Flynn could very well be to keep him unsullied.

I also think if things keep going the way they are, Democrats may get the Senate or House back. If so, Pence wouldn't be able to do too much damage.

[easttexaslefty]

11. Bingo

that's been the game plan all along, imho

[Freethinker65]

12. Trump is not loyal to anyone but Trump

Trump will take down as many GOP as he can if they impeach

[Fiendish Thingy]

53. Of course, Pence could enact the 25th amendment

Which would be quicker and much less messy than an impeachment process, with less political blowback for congress.

Although with an impeachment, you'd definitely get rid of Bannon, Miller and Conaway.

[calimary]

63. Yeah, he's liable to stir up The Shitstorm of the Century with his many loyal Deplorables.

And THEY'RE violent. THEY'RE the ones most likely to act out. THEY'RE the ones who can easily get abusive and physical when they're angry. THEY'RE the ones who tend to let their paranoia and their lizard brains lead their reactions and responses. And they're the ones who are most likely to support unlimited and unregulated access to guns.

[gilpo]

13. Not until they are done with the current occupant

If they can't blame Democrats (stay strong, no votes with the Rs), the next best will be to blame twitler. They will use him to sign a few more unpopular items before they jettison el creepo. Otherwise, I totally agree.

[calimary]

65. Indeed. Makes me think of something else that world-class fiend Grover Norquist said not too long

ago. He's the guy who made the phrase "starve the government til it shrinks down so small that you can drown it in a bathtub."

HOWEVER - he ALSO said within the last couple of presidential election cycles that all the GOP needs is basically a piece of meat in a business suit who'll do what they want. He said the ideal candidate is one who knows only one thing: how to hold a pen. Because all the GOP really needs is somebody who'll sign whatever piece of paper they put in front of him. That's all they want, and all they need.

Thereby taking the rush limbaugh statement "you don't even have to think. I'LL do the thinking FOR you!" to a horrifying extreme.

[coco22]

14. Yep.yep.yep,

[wildeyed]

15. They are trying to immunize him for sure.

But if he goes down, then Paul Ryan is next in line. The Granny-Starver is a far better looking and more talented politician than face-like-a-thumb Pence. Which one is more evil? I dunno. But Pence would be easier to beat.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

88. Ryan is only inline for death in office. See Amendment 25 of Constitution

Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

If Pence goes, then tRump nominates a VP, but has to be someone the Republicon Congress wants to "elect".

If tRump goes, then Pence nominates a VP.

Ryan could only get in as VP, and only if asked and only if he wants to. I'm sure he does not want to. I'm sure he is thinking he will let this mess go down and then let the Republicon Pres lose in 2020 like Ford lost in 1976, and then Ryan will try to be Reagan (1980) in 2024.

[wildeyed]

92. But if both Trump and Pence are bounced

for colluding with Russians to interfere with the election then they can't pick the replacement. Right?

[Barack_America]

16. Totally happening. New story tonight is WH withheld Flynn info from Pence for 2 wks.

[KT2000]

17. I did pose the question -

where are the leaks coming from? A wise person said - the Pence people.
As I thought about it, he has never been the target of the incompetence.
Remember this - Pence is the go to Koch puppet.

[TexasBushwhacker]

46. That would certainly make sense n/t

[BainsBane]

18. At this point I'd be relieved if Pence took over

and I don't think he is among those beholden to Russia.

[democratisphere]

19. I am hoping Pence will follow in the footsteps of Spiro Agnew.

The whole damn administration is involved and the whole damn administration needs to be impeached.

[yeoman6987]

29. One thing you are missing about Nixon.

The senate and house were democratic. Today not so much. I don't think it will end up like watergate at all. At least not with this case.

[Kingofalldems]

40. Trump fans are hoping for that yeoman6987.

[PoliticAverse]

113. Yes, and there weren't enough Senate Republicans to vote for conviction even until the full tapes

were released letting people actually hear Nixon directing the coverup.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

20. Not many besides Trump could ostensibly make Pence look good by comparison.

But, I don't know if that was their plan from the get-go. Maybe? Either way, though, it would make sense that it's their plan now.

They're craven enough to put up with the orange idiot no matter what if they still stand to gain power or wealth, but if he's becoming too much of a liability, they'll be happy to ditch him and have extremist Pence, with little opposition from the American people, because, once again, compared to Pissolini, Pence (deceptively) appears normal.

[calimary]

67. "Craven" is a FABULOUS word for this, Dark n Stormy Knight.

That sums it all up in a mere six letters.

[TrekLuver]

21. If you were a skank in the White Trash House...would you want goody boy Pence in on it?

Would you want this God freak to know the real deal? I wouldn't. He is not going to go around blatantly lying...taint that a commandment or something?

[volstork]

31. heh, heh

You said "taint."

[TrekLuver]

32. Look at that I punned myself and I didn't even realize it. Ahhh I could use a good punning.

[The Wielding Truth]

38. He's no boy scout. He's been lying for Trump as much as anyone else and he played his cards on the

Carrier jobs. He stayed as governor long enough to use the states money to bribe the company to say that Trump did a deal that helped the workers. It was BS like Trump does constantly but it worked with his base.

[politicat]

102. And Indiana has an investigation much like Scott Walker's John Doe corruption case, and it

Smells a LOT like what brought down Agnew.

Indiana's courts aren't playing softball on it; they've forced releases of documents. And Indiana's lege and new governor are not protecting the Pence legacy. It looks like they're relieved that he's gone, and there's a good chance there's a portion of the state looking for revenge.

That's not getting a lot of press, which is fine. Let them do their work. The Agnew precedent holds -- the Veep is not protected from a criminal public corruption case that occurred before taking the federal office.

Don't count on Pence being bulletproof.

[Hekate]

108. This is a piece of good news. All along I've been saying we can't get rid of Pence unless he's dirty

...like Agnew, but I had never heard of Pence doing anything against the law. Just stupid bigoted and all around counterproductive.

Heh. Keep working at it, Indiana.

[The Wielding Truth]

116. This is so good to hear. I want them all out of our government. They have no talent for good

governance. They will destroy and carpetbag us all.

[Eyeball_Kid]

76. Pence is your favorite undertaker. He's perfect for the role.

[LeftInTX]

22. I don't think Pence and Trump have any kind of relationship.

Was Pence briefed along with Trump regarding Flynn 17 days ago? I have no idea if Pence is included in those briefings etc.

I really can't picture the two of them working together on anything.

[eleny]

23. Agreed. But it doesn't say much for Pence's judgement

So building him up this way also leaves him open to criticism. Like he's some bumpkin who allows himself to get lied to in the face of Flynn's absolute whacky behavior from the start. And then the WH was warned before the inauguration. which would have included Pence.

They may be hoping to accomplish what you propose. But it hurts Pence in the long run. Like way before he would even take the oath of office.

[regnaD kciN]

24. I'm not sure the House G.O.P. has a reason to protect the Veep

…because, if BOTH he and Trump got removed, we'd get -- President Paul Ryan. Works for them no matter what.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. I think that's been the plan all along.

You know that Trump didn't pick him. The Heritage Foundation or some such did. He's the second part of a Two-Fer. If 45/140 (who against all odds won the nomination) doesn't work out they have Mr. Fall-Back-Position.

I think Pence knows. I think they will dump 45/140 and protect Pence.

I think if the Dems work really hard at it, starting now, they can take Pence down along with 45/140.

[zentrum]

42. Exactly...

Pence gives me the willies. Way different than Orange. Orange is viciously narcissistic but Pence is like one of those cruel Spanish Inquisitors.

[McKim]

68. The Best Thing about Pence

The best thing about Pence is that he is not as appealing to the base as Trump. Pence will not have the charisma with the Trumpster fans. He will not be elected in four years, end of story.

[zentrum]

82. I don't know.

They hate choice and diversity and "libruls" more than they dislike him. He's "packing the corners with Evangelicals" and they love that.

Hope you're right.

[Merlot]

83. Exactly. Did pense even run in the repub primary?

I don't even remember if he was in the debates, he's that forgetable. There is no way he would ver have won the presidency on his own and his record as governor is awful.

The dumpsters won't rally around him, that's for sure.

[zentrum]

86. But he's super

...religious. And lead the anti-abortion march in DC. They love that.

[HoosierDebbie]

105. Pence was running for re-election as Governor when he was chosen to run with Trump

He was not expected to be re-elected.

[akbacchus_BC]

106. Happy Valentines to you!

[HoneyBadger]

80. If that was the plan all along

Then Pence will be clean. No need to put that effort into damaged goods.

Trump gets to vacate the White House (did he actually MOVE IN?), he gets a pardon from Pence, and he still gets the vanity of having been 45.

[Stinky The Clown]

81. I bet they haven't even changed his sheets yet.

[Hekate]

109. GMTA. Hubby and I have thought so since the get-go

Pence creeps me out, but he's sober and sane compared to the Mad King.

[randr]

27. I don't think the effort is so quiet

Tonite it is all about how Pence was out of the loop and Flynns mistake was not being truthful to Pence among others.

[radical noodle]

30. No you're not all wet

This makes perfect sense about what Republicans want, and they want something different than Russia wants. It's difficult to believe that Russia has been involved in the campaign from the get-go (which I personally believe) and Pence didn't know about it.

You're definitely right about Indiana being left with a clean-up.

[BadgerMom]

33. Isn't Pence the Kochs' guy?

And the Kochs are involved in the Rozneft 19% deal. And the Kochs want a Constitutional convention. Crikey, I think Pence is just as bad as Trump though in different ways.

I believe you could be right. I hope that's not how it works out. Pence is either complicit or dense as can be. Or both.

[calimary]

71. Yep. AND sanctimonious as all Hell, too.

[MrModerate]

34. Under the 25th Amendment . . .

Trump could be in a locked ward at Walter Reed in an hour while Acting President Pence waved the signatures dry on the unfitness order.

[manicraven]

98. Much less drawn out!

[Volaris]

35. I think you're correct

But I also think we have to go slow. The reason is, if there is so much as an atom of evidence that Pence (and Ryan and McConnell) were either in the loop on this, OR colluded to destroy their own Party Head, we have to be able to take them down as well. If there's evidence, and I think there will be, we have to be able to indict EVERYONE, or were back where we started. Either legally or electorally, the whole lot of them have to be brought down or the deplorables will have it it in their dumb little heads that they can try this again. It's why Ford was wrong to pardon Nixon...because it taught Cheney and Crew how to not go to jail.

[jmowreader]

36. I don't think so

It's going to be VERY hard to sell the idea that everyone in the Trump Administration EXCEPT the Number Two man is connected to the Russians. Four questions come to mind:

When did you become aware key members of the Trump administration had been compromised by the Russians?

When you discovered they were, why did you do nothing to stop them?

If you couldn't stop them, why didn't you resign in protest?

and, most important,

Are YOU, yourself, compromised by the Russians?

Pence might be their dream president, but the dream has become a nightmare.

Remember the first rule of Congress: the most important thing to a Congressman is his seat. If they do NOT get rid of Mike Pence when they're busy flushing out the rest of the administration, the GOP will probably lose Idaho. Right now, there is no joy for Donald Trump in the Redoubt area.

Figure on a very chastened Paul Ryan becoming president and nothing more than keeping the nation on an even keel until 2020, when the presidential election takes place. I also expect to see several of Trump's biggest supporters in Congress resign. It is VERY possible that we could flip Congress before the election. We only need three seats, and resignations or aisle-crossing could make it happen.

[zentrum]

37. I think the entire

....Repug establishment and Pence want Pence to be President. Wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the leakers.

Orange Chaos will ruin the entire Repug brand and they all know it. Pence will not be able to run in 2020. He and they want to seize the reins now. None of them have any personal loyalty to Orange at all. They probably all hate him, certainly his election rivals do.

Pence is "safe". Pence is one of the Old Boys. This is a terrifying prospect for the country but I think moving Orange out and Pence in, is what's happening.

[mobeau69]

39. They were trying to shield Mike and failed.

That's really over with now. That dog just won't hunt. Pence and dumbass are both toast. Study the timeline.

[tblue37]

41. The GOP honchos are scared of Trump's rabid fans who will vote them out if they

"betray" their god emperor. Pence is not dreamy to Trump's fans

[zentrum]

47. Good point.

But FOX, the Koch's, and the entire Repug Establishment would be relieved to have Pence. They know Orange will be nothing but trouble forever and a greater risk to their larger oligarchy project.

I think they'll cut their losses now and hope to save Pence and hope a new terror scare distracts the base in 2018. Besides, Pence has some red meat of his own to throw at them---anti-choice, charter schools, demonizing immigrants etc.

[calimary]

79. Shit, zentrum, my husband and I were talking about exactly that, this morning.

A new terror scare.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bannon is planning it right this minute. Call me a conspiracy freak, but I wouldn't put ANYTHING past Bannon and his bunch, considering how many tentacles he has, snaking around all over DeplorableWorld. I seriously think he'd stop at NOTHING. Now that they've seized power, by any means necessary (in this case, Russian intervention), they're gonna want to USE it, an of course, hang onto it.

I bet they recognize that in order to turn the page, "bigly," and create the conditions that force all those marchers to sit down and shut up and stop making trouble, and give the press some big round-the-clock distraction to run off and obsess over, and all the short-attention-span fans to forget ANY mixed feelings they might be starting to have, and make everybody feel compelled to come together to stand by their President. A la Reichstag fire, which helped some ruthless freakazoid with a funny mustache take over Germany completely. OR a la 9/11 - which sure turned things around, rather decisively, for bush/cheney and silenced the opposition that was still smarting from Selection 2000. Flipped the whole calculus in a couple of hours.

[zentrum]

85. That's it Calimary

Bannon is all about the Apocalypse and war.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1/31/1628176/-Steve-Bannon-Is-Obsessed-With-War-And-He-Promotes-Aggressive-Military-Action-Hello

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/steve-bannon-apocalypse-third-world-war-coming-white-house-donald-trump-historian-claim-film-david-a7570631.html

I think Trump and company are doing everything possible to provoke a a militant terroristic attack. 26% of the country---which is all the people who voted for Trump---have put us in terrible jeopardy.

[zentrum]

97. Actually, this one is

...even more to the point.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/10/1632194/-Paul-Krugman-Issues-A-Warning-About-What-We-All-Know-Is-Coming?detail=email&link_id=1&can_id=c18eea41fb1d783913a1d9ad104ac7d2&source=email-paul-krugman-issues-a-warning-about-what-we-all-know-is-coming-2&email_referrer=paul-krugman-issues-a-warning-about-what-we-all-know-is-coming-2&email_subject=paul-krugman-issues-a-warning-about-what-we-all-know-is-coming

[calimary]

112. I saw that one.

That's what started me worrying about this.

Evidently it's not unthinkable. It's crossed others' minds, also.

[PoliticAverse]

114. Yes this is the problem with arguing that Republicans would impeach Trump for their own benefit...

the fallout would likely be so negative from Republican Trump supporters that it would cost Republicans bigly in
the 2018/2020 elections.

[keithbvadu2]

43. Flynn is the sacrificial lamb. It's Trump who should have aplogized to Pence for keeping him out of

Flynn is the sacrificial lamb. It's Trump who should have apologized to Pence for keeping him out of the loops.

But it's doubtful that he was kept out of the loop.

Lots of excuses and protection for Pence.

[Catamount]

44. Not Wet

Definitely on to something here, what's more imo Pence already knew about it too.

[WinstonSmith4740]

45. Basically agree wth you.

I think the Republicans are looking for any way out of this, and Pence is as good as any. But I just don't think he'll be able to whip up and control the masses like Trump. He's still an asshole and will try, but he just doesn't have whatever the hell his followers see in Trump. And I think he'd get crushed in 2020. In the immediate, I wouldn't care if the Republicans put in Mickey Mouse. It would be an improvement, and we'd get that madman out of office.

[mn9driver]

48. Pence is being protected. No question.

He will be president before summer.

[Perseus]

49. I am not sure if someone has asked this question

Pence claims he only knew about the Flynn issue after, or on February 9, 2017....

QUESTION:
Doesn't Pence read newspapers? Doesn't he pay attention to the news? This story has been floating around for longer than February 9, you are going to tell me that he never bothered to ask, at least casually?

Well, if he ignored the whole thing, which I doubt and don't believe he did, then he is as bad as Trump, and I don't mean as evil as Trump, I mean as clueless as Trump. Someone needs to ask him why he decided to ignore the issue, or where is his brain that he claims not to know about an issue that smells like treason.

By the way, on another note, if you have not seen the video of "The View" from today I think you should, these women speak the truth and say things that people seem to have been ignoring. I never watch the view so I don't know all her names, actually, I only know Whoopi's, but I think the name of the other one is Joann. She said something that I don't hear anyone else mention, and it is the fact that Ryan, McConnell are enjoying all these because it allows them to work on the background their evil plans, and I have posted about this before, people need to look behind the wall (pun intended) and see what is going on because if these people are not stopped, we are all going to be badly surprised.

[bullwinkle428]

50. Unless TPTB want to see President Eddie Munster, and are willing to let Pence go

down with the sinking ship of rats!

[kimbutgar]

52. Thinking the same thing

He didn't know until how many days ago? Pence has probably known since he accepted being Vp knowing the election had Russian interference.

Chump is in so much debt to Russia, Pence even knows it.

[itsrobert]

54. Oh shit, I was just writing something similiar

But I deleted before posting.


Yes, they are protecting Pence at all cost.

[Mr. Ected]

56. If Trump was impeached or removed

Would Pence hang on to Bannon and Miller, or would he cut them loose and restaff?

[Rustynaerduwell]

58. Even Gen Flynn is playing it that way

Notice in his resignation letter he apologized for misleading Pence and not Trump. This explicitly keeps Pence clean and implicitly puts Trump in the loop.

[Ohioboy]

62. Good point.

I heard that part of his resignation announced on right wing radio today. Funny how that would be the excerpt getting emphasized.

[calimary]

93. Welcome to DU, Ohioboy!

Definitely! Doesn't it seem like somebody's being rather relentless about pointing out that Mike Pence didn't know, Mike Pence didn't know until such-&-such a date, Mike Pence was lied to, oh dearie me, somebody was mean to poor sweet harmless unsuspecting little Mike Pence. Poor thing! Literally EVERYBODY I've heard, on the air today, at any point during which I was within earshot, made sure to add that little factoid into their commentary, or intro, or report, or whatever. Without fail. It almost seemed as though every last one of them had gotten some upper management memo making it mandatory.

[calimary]

89. Welcome to DU, Rustynaerduwell!

Yes indeed. It just seems to me they're trying very hard to wall him out of most of the shit stew that's starting to look like it might be approaching a boiling point. Leave the whitest white guy in the world unstained - so his accession to the Oval Office will be smooth as silk. There's a few things on their "to do list" that I think they're very anxious to check off, and the quicker and easier they can get that done, the better. 2020 will be here before you know it.

[uponit7771]

110. +1

[VOX]

60. Cautionary note: Watergate/Nixon was bookended by 20 years of Republican rule...

Nixon-Agnew, 1969-74
Nixon-Agnew out in 1973-74
Gerald Ford, 1974-76
Jimmy Carter, 1977-80
Reagan-Bush I, 1981-1988
Bush I-Quayle, 1989-1992

The voting public is so terribly fickle. And forgetful. Even if the poop hits the fan in Trump's face, Democrats must *never* ease up, not in today's world...or ever!

[not fooled]

87. Talk about forgetful

only 8 years after chimpy's disastrous reign, the morans vote another 'puke close enough to steal the presidency.

Amazing. And depressing.

[Ohioboy]

61. I think you may be right.

You are not the only one seeing it this way.

[oasis]

64. Comey's FBI will play a significant part. Comey has much love for Pence.

ooooooh yeah.

[Doremus]

66. I think the repukes are going to use Dump as a human shield. When they're done decimating SS,

Medicare, health care, etc they'll hang it all on Dump and throw him away. I agree impeachment is definitely in his future, it's just a matter of when.

[uponit7771]

111. +1

[MedusaX]

70. Useful Idiot

IMHO
45 has a coalition of puppet masters...
He successfully attracted 3 investors in his "All Access WH" project...

Bannon wants to destroy credibility of both parties & replace them with a single white nationalist system ...
these efforts are also beneficial to Vlad

Vlad benefits from any media coverage of US govt. chaos / public decreased confidence in democracy etc.
Plus Tillerson will help him get to his shale oil
any sanction relief is a bonus

Koch Bros. Benefit from the circus theatrics- which serve as a distraction during this initial 60 day window in which only a simple majority is required to undo most of Obamas most recent moves....
45 signs off on anything they can get passed in return for GOP wearing blinders...

Pence has always been the fall back plan -- in the event that the 45 /Bannon Agenda became a problem....

So long as 45 is signing off on GOP items ...and not creating a crisis situation detrimental to the Koch agenda... he gets to play President....
But
Bannon / Flynn / Miller Agenda saw the opportunity to take the lead.... which has now resulted in greater liability to the Koch agenda's timely progress than expected.

[calimary]

117. Welcome to DU, MedusaX!

DEFINITELY a Useful Idiot - he's the ideal cardboard cut-out that Grover Norquist had wet dreams about. Norquist not only said one of the most memorable quotes in politics, about starving the government to the point where you "shrink it down so small you can drown it in the bathtub." He also said, more recently, that all republi-CONS needed in a "president" was someone who could hold a pen. Someone who'd simply take that pen and use it to sign whatever paperwork his handlers put in front of him.

[cstanleytech]

73. They won't take the step to replace Trump with Pence as long as Trump

signs what they order him to sign when they order him to sign it.

[HoneyBadger]

77. This has been a theory since November

That Pence was the heir and the GOP which hates Trump, was setting up the dominos. The only way to get a far right religious conservative into the Presidency. And now the timing is such that Pence could get several SCOTUS appointments.

[PufPuf23]

78. I tend to think you made an insightful post. nt

[green917]

84. That's been the plan all along

Get trump to pass a shit ton of the really egregious stuff they've wanted to do via executive order until either the Russia corrections or the emoluments clause bring him down which, as you mentioned, elevates pence to the oval office with the ability to claim plausible denability for the really awful stuff.

[OhioBlue]

90. When the Pence decision was leaked, it was widely reported

that Donald had second thoughts but was pushed into the decision. I thought at the time it was stupid for him but great for the GOP because if Trump was elected, they could impeach him and have their dream Pres.

Then, when the "Access Hollywood" tapes were released and Pence cancelled an appearance only to reappear and reaffirm his commitment to the ticket, my thought were that power brokers were in his ear saying, "don't worry, we will impeach and you will be Pres".

I honestly believe that a lot of the "never Trump" crowd only came around through the theory that Trump would eventually be removed and Pence would take over. Anybody could see that through Trump's temperament, lack of qualifications and competence, poor judgement and conflicts of interest, one could find grounds for impeachment. The only questions are: if they deem it in their political interest and which path they choose.

[mchill]

91. Yep, he is being given plausible deniability

but.....

How did he happen to ignore Manafort, Flynn, Page trips to Russia? Removal of anti-Russian sentiment in the Republican platform? Donald Trump's bromance with Putin?

Even if he didn't have specifics, he was a total dolt for not seeing what was right in front of his eyes, plus we already know this Trump group is the gang that couldn't shoot straight, so I doubt he's been totally oblivious.

Though, if Trump elected because of Russian interference, Pence was on the ticket with Trump, period. They are an inseparable set.

I'm not excited about Paul Ryan as POTUS though.

[JCMach1]

100. If these blows up... Pence will be collateral damage as it fully involves the election process

Also, Ryan will get what he's always wanted...

[joet67]

104. They can try, but I don't think it will work.

Pence may well be involved with the coverup of the treason.

[calimary]

118. Welcome to DU, joet67!

One thing concerns me - is that Mike Pence is pretty slick. He's playing this like a wide-eyed "innocent." Heck, he's done everything but bat his eyelashes. He does have that swooning look that Nancy Reagan had, every time she looked at her Ronnie. A wide-eyed face that came to be known as the "worshipful gaze." And I've seen Mike Pence adopt that same look, that same "worshipful gaze", every time he looks at The Donald. If he weren't such a homophobe, I'd find myself wondering if maybe he had some sort of crush on The Donald. During their two-in-one "60 Minutes" appearance back during the campaign, sometimes Pence gazed at The Donald with such a sickly-sweet, downright swooning expression on his face that I almost felt like I needed to go check my blood sugar levels.

Then again, there have been wives who've served as little more than beards for their gay husbands to keep up the "proper appearances" - like Rock Hudson had.

[joet67]

119. Pence puts on a nauseating theatrical performance. His thespian skills aren't nearly as polished

as his rhetorical skills. Make no mistake, he speaks in coded language 100% of the time. He is crafty, cunning, and such but don't be fooled by his "aw shucks" persona. He's carved himself out a certain "niche" audience, and he stays right in his lane. Like Trump, when he gets his hand caught in the cookie jar, he deflects blame and changes the subject. He is just as crafty as Trump, but not as dumb Trump- by just the slimmest of margins. Actually, I take that back. It might be a tie.

[Hekate]

107. Pence has just been handed plausible deniability. Yet he has been at all the briefings afaik...

...paying MUCH more attention than Trump is capable of.

I've seen that SOB lie on tv -- just lie and lie until I wonder just what kind of a "Christian" he is.

So I figure Pence is lying and others are helping him lie about being out of the loop. And the media, of course, is passing this along.

Pence knew about Flynn. Bank on it.

[Schema Thing]

115. There ain't no Puppet-master(s)

for one thing, there could be only one, and since there isn't, that theory should go out the window. More than one and you just have a bunch of super-rich people with all their varied competing interest.


Yeah, that last. That's reality. And that's no "Puppet-master".


"Puppet-master" theory is just lazy thinking, sorry to be so blunt.