If the Trump Administration actually defies the orders

[MineralMan]

of more than one Federal court, we are in a constitutional crisis. A stay has been ordered by at least three District courts. That is established. If the DHS defies those stay orders and expels people, returning them to their origins, then we are in that crisis.

Barely more than a week into the Trump Administration and their insolence and ignorance are pushing us toward a constitutional crisis. Way to go, Trump and Bannon. Way to go.

BTW, Trump folks, defying court orders constitutes a "high crime or misdemeanor." It's an open defiance of the Constitution. We have a Judicial system that is defined in the same Constitution that defines the powers of the President. Defy those courts and you're courting impeachment.

Thanks for your attention.

[yallerdawg]

1. Alabama just removed its Chief Justice...

for suggesting county officials don't have to follow federal court rulings (in this case, Supreme Court ruling on same sex marriage).

The rule of law remains fundamental even in the reddest of red states.

[grantcart]

15. He is likely to be appointed to the Senate

[DemoTex]

48. Luther Strange is also in the running for appointment by GOV-AL to Sessions' seat ..

I can't wait: Sen. Strange - (R) Alabama

[paleotn]

72. It's a trifecta....

...Senator Flake - AZ Senator Crapo - ID Senator Strange - AL

[dchill]

96. Flake, Crapo & Strange...

The perfect law firm to represent Trumpelthinskin in his impeachment trial.

[Cracklin Charlie]

2. What does the term "constitutional crisis" actually imply?

Sorry, I'm stuck in a car, and can't search properly.

Is "constitutional crisis" by any chance, some way that we can end this unmitigated madness? Is it something concrete?

I feel like I'm on the tilt-a-whirl.

[MineralMan]

3. It means that the checks and balances in the Constitution

are not being honored. If a President defies the Legislative or Judicial branch of Federal Government, he is going against his oath of office which requires him to follow the Constitution. That, all by itself, would be grounds for impeachment and removal from office.

Will that happen. I don't know, to tell you the truth. I don't know if Congress has the guts to do it.

[Cracklin Charlie]

7. Thanks.

I thought that's what it was, but was unsure.

You are a very good explainer.

[Cracklin Charlie]

12. Can I ask another question?

If a significant portion of the population demanded his removal, would that allow Republicans more guts to do the thing?

Couldn't they almost come out heroes?

[MineralMan]

13. Good question, but one without a clear answer.

I don't know what the Republican Congress might do. We will have to wait and see how this all plays out.

[PearliePoo2]

32. I think the number of Republican Congress members speaking out now is up to 7.

Seven found a spine to defy D.T. I assume they feel safe enough in their districts to take a stand.

[Salviati]

37. So far, but talk is cheap. All the republicans that have spoken out against him have backed down...

... when the rubber hits the road, so until there is concrete action on their part, I'm putting no stock in their words.

[frankieallen]

87. Actually, the opposite of good question. Elections are not overturned because

a significant number of people demanded it.

[Nitram]

107. No, but Congress-people can vote to impeach if enough of their constituents demand it.

[eleny]

43. Just an "imo" on your question...

I believe that if Republican members of Congress heard from their constituents in large numbers demanding that they reign in the president it would have an impact.

I'm reminded of the recently leaked audio of R members of Congress when they were discussing what to do about replacing the ACA. One member pointed out that if they act against the interests of the population they would be disadvantaged in the next midterm elections. Constituents weigh heavily on the minds of Congress. If Republican voters turn against the president we'll see action. That could be a big "if", though.

[IMWITHHERR]

90. Please pray

Have faith my fellow americans. Democracy will prevail. We as a nation will heal. At least i try and tell myself that. But with you guys to help i really think times will get better

[erronis]

59. Not if Putin has "the goods" on them

Repuglicans or Democrats don't like to have salacious or other interesting facts about their lives exposed in public. Remember we are One Puritan Nation Under God (UPNOG?).

Just based on 70 years of watching the shenanigans of people with power, I'm guessing that upwards of 90% have a dossier that would not fit well into their clean image.

The Pee Tarty was just a programmed wedge to drive into the heart of the Repuglicans. It definitely involved outside support($$$) and instruction by other than the frothing idjuts that talk about "values". Now that the Repuglicans have been scared shitless by voters, they won't stand up to anything. In any case, I'm not sure there are any rational Repuglicans left in congress. It's a sorry state of affairs to say that McCain every now an then shows signs of lucidity.

(Moderator Warning!!!): Democrats the same. Some have been coopted by dossiers, some are just plain bumbling or senile, and quite a few have been worn down by the relentless drip of calumny and spite coming from the other side. $$$ has way too large an influence here also.

For all the angst that we, as normal rational humans, feel. Imagine the turmoil going on inside the government where real people have tried to do real good for many years. I don't care if they are in HUD or NSA or State or many other agencies. Hard work wiped out in one week by a megalomaniac. (And it isn't just tRump.)

[jaysunb]

86. +1 n/t

[Moostache]

34. This is where we MUST GIVE THE DEMOCRATS THE NECESSARY GUTS...

or kick them the fuck out of office in '18.

There is NO MIDDLE GROUND here....violation of the oath of office on the first week in said position is 100% impeachable to a degree that makes what they did to Clinton so much more petty and insignificant that I can barely believe my eyes.

Trump, Pence, Bannon, and the rest of the Deplorables need to take it on the heel and toe and get the hell out of DC, now! I'll take my chances with a President Ryan at this point, even though I hat that son-of-a-bitch as much as the rest of them...at least he is not insane and an autocratic despot in waiting, just an ideological fool.

[volstork]

40. We can't wait until 2018.

It has to happen now. This Republic will not stand until 2018 unless we take it back.

[Rhiannon12866]

51. I agree 100%!

It's only been a week and the damage is already incalculable! The time is now!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

91. I agree, Trump needs to be removed from office.

Now!

[DK504]

108. " ... defying court orders constitutes a "high crime or misdemeanor."

..... It's an open defiance of the Constitution."

So how many laws has he broken? Will somebody in the Congress bring this traitor on charges and impeach his fat ass.

[lastlib]

47. the GOPee Congress isn't about to derail its gravy train.....

...UNLESS(!) (maybe) millions of Americans rise up and DEMAND it!

tRumpf*, being a student of Orwell, will likely stand up, look straight into the camera, and with perfect psychopathy, say that by disobeying the courts' orders, he was actually obeying them. That's what fascists do.

And Congress won't do a damn thing.

[struggle4progress]

4. The courts can hold individuals in contempt

[MineralMan]

5. They can, but it's unlikely they'd do so to a President.

The three branches are equal in our Constitution. The Congress is the only branch that can impeach and remove a President. The Judicial branch does not have that authority. The President, by the way, cannot do a damned thing to either Congress or Federal Judges already appointed and confirmed. He doesn't have that power at all.

It's a wonderful document, our Constitution, if you actually understand it fully. Trump obviously does not. I'd be interested to know when the last time was that he read it, actually. I suspect it was a very long time ago.

[struggle4progress]

14. They can go right down the chain of command -- and

"My boss ordered me to ignore the court" won't be a defense

[MineralMan]

17. That, indeed, is true.

For example, the head of DHS is not immune to contempt proceedings and he is in charge of enforcement of immigration matters. So, it's his head on the block right now. The courts know what they can and can't do. We shall see what happens.

Trump really has no judges he has appointed on any Federal benches. He will not for some time. It's not looking good for his position. Three separate Federal judges have handed down stays, now. The next step are judicial hearings. We'll see.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. I doubt that many agency officials will want to sit in the slammer under a contempt order

on Trump's behalf (if it came to that). I predict a lot of resignations in the not-too-distant-future.

[frankieallen]

88. Trump will just pardon them, problem solved

[The Wielding Truth]

45. The Federal Judges could save us?

[MineralMan]

74. They could do things that would

clarify what Trump could and couldn't get away with. This might be the first situation where the do that.

[The Wielding Truth]

114. I hope he is stoppable.He has already broken the emolument law. He should no longer be our President.

[NewJeffCT]

103. Then Trump just pardons them

and we're back to square 1

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

38. I am expecting that the Trump will at some point attempt

to dismiss a judge or governor or member of Congress he doesn't like. I think he honestly believes running the country is like running one of his businesses: he can do whatever he pleases and to hell with everyone else.

[MineralMan]

75. Trump has no power to remove

federal judges or members of Congress. He us barred from doing so by the Constitution. Judges can be impeached and removed by Congress. Congress is the only body that can remove a House or Senate member during their term in office. It's all part of the system's design, as specified in the Constitution.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

76. Yes, I know. But he seems to think that he can run the government

exactly as he runs his businesses, which includes hiring and firing totally at will, and of course not paying the contractors.

His profound ignorance of silly little details like the Constitution, is genuinely dangerous.

[MineralMan]

79. He is ignorant about his powers and limitations.

He will be schooled by the courts. Count on it.

[Nitram]

109. I am counting on it.

Trump's ignorance off the law, the constitution, and the working of government will be his downfall. He just doesn't have the attention-span to listen to even his most trusted advisors.

[Break time]

6. It is also

An illegal ban from what I read this was actually banned itself :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

[MineralMan]

9. Yes. The courts know the law.

Trump and his merry band of miscreants clearly do not. Trump (and Bannon) are acting without reviewing the legality of their actions. That's why we have courts that can stay things and force judicial hearings. They have done so in this case.

Trump needs to honor that stay.

[calimary]

68. Welcome to DU, Break time!

Not that trump would care.

I'm almost blue in the face from trying to remind everybody that THIS is why you DON'T try to run the government like a business. You DON'T put a CEO in charge unless he is thoroughly schooled in how different it is than when you're the biggest big shot in the board room. You DON'T just get to say what's so and that's that. Most of what you think you want to do has to go through Congress, and plenty of other people have to weigh in, AND approve, too. You're not just a unilateral king or emperor who just dictates what should happen and it simply happens. Maybe that's how it works in the corner office suites, but it doesn't work that way in the White House.

[Sunny05]

93. Hi!

Welcome, Break time! Love your DU username.

[Break time]

105. Hello

And thank you ..

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. We haven't seen anything close to this since Watergate

when Nixon was ordered to turn over the secret tapes. Because Nixon had become so weird and paranoid by that time there was a lot of concern that he'd refuse to turn over the tapes, which would produce a similar executive vs. judicial branch conflict. But Nixon acknowledged the validity of the order and produced the tapes after the Supreme Court finally ordered him to do so - even though he knew they would ruin him. Even Tricky Dick had more integrity than Trump and his orcs.

Theoretically the courts could hold whoever is named in the order in contempt. Whether that would be civil or criminal contempt depends on the particulars (that gets complicated). In civil contempt cases the contemnor is usually ordered to comply or pay a fine; in criminal contempt cases they could go to jail. I wonder how many agency officials are willing to go to jail for Trump, and I wonder whether we will eventually see another "Saturday Night Massacre" where officials refuse to obey the president and are fired or resign.

(For you young whippersnappers who don't remember Watergate, the special prosecutor, Archibald Cox, issued a subpoena to Nixon to get copies of the secretly-recorded Oval Office tapes, but Nixon refused to honor the subpoena. The next day, which was a Saturday, Nixon ordered the Attorney General, Elliot Richardson, to fire Cox. Richardson refused, and resigned in protest. Nixon then ordered Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox. He also refused and resigned.)

[MineralMan]

11. It's fascinating. Scary, but fascinating.

We're about to see the Executive Branch pitted against the Judicial Branch. That's not a good thing. Those Federal judges have the law on their sides. Trump has Bannon on his side. I know who wins that battle.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. There is that old curse: "May you live in interesting times."

Hoo boy. Somebody got us, bigly.

[MineralMan]

25. Yup. Interesting times. We haz them.

[Ligyron]

63. and it's only the first week...

[volstork]

41. Please tell us it's

the judges!

[Stonepounder]

94. Unfortunately, in this kind of Constitutional Crisis,

(and, yes, it is a Constitutional Crisis if the Executive continues to refuse to obey the Judiciary) the deciding vote will be Congress. Will the GOP have the will to impeach? Remember, a lot of them come from states that Trump carried and impeaching them will lose them a lot of votes. Are they willing to put the country first (again, these are the idjits who wanted to require that every bill submitted have a citation from the Constitution showing where the contents of the bill were authorized) or will they put their jobs and the lucrative cash flow from lobbyists and special-interests first and stay mute?

So far, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the Country winning.

[greymattermom]

101. they will do it

because they love Pence. The will make Pence into their hero.

[Generator]

10. When the mellow man on DU

is concerned we are in trouble. You are hardly a hothead like me and some others. So if you are saying this I am scared.

I am ready to run for the hills but there are no hills safe enough.

[MineralMan]

16. Well, there's no need to run for the hills just yet.

The issue is just getting underway. Trump is about to learn the limitations of his office. That will be interesting. If he persists in defying the courts, then it will get very uncomfortable for him. The law is clear. The Constitution is clear. It is Trump who is unclear on those things.

Just watch. You can protest or contribute to legal action organizations, but that's about it. Watch and we'll see how it plays out.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. And when will the GOPers in Congress start to realize

that they'd better jump ship? IIRC, it took them awhile during the Watergate contretemps as well, but they finally realized that Nixon was a ginormous albatross.

[MineralMan]

26. We shall see. This may take some time to develop.

We can, however, continue to put pressure on the Trump Administration. With luck, they'll make more serious mistakes by acting out of pique instead of real thought. Trump has a very fragile ego, and tends to lash out. His advisors are mostly incompetent in matters constitutional, so, there may be more opportunities for Trump to fail bigly.

[madinmaryland]

18. If tRump defies the orders and congress does not impeach and convict, then our democracy will

have died. tRump will be free at that point to defy any court ruling and law passed by congress. This experiment in democracy will be over.

I am truly scared for our future.

[MineralMan]

22. As I said, we're going to have to see how it all plays out.

The courts can't really go after Trump, but they can go after Cabinet officials, who have no protection from being cited for contempt. The Director of the DHS should be thinking about his vulnerability right now. He has zero protection against being hauled into a Federal court to answer a contempt charge.

The courts are equal to the legislature and the executive in our Constitution. Within their limits, they all have a great deal of power. We'll see how this all goes. The Judiciary is a very powerful branch of our government. It can override a lot of things.

[LisaL]

27. They can also go after border agents who aren't following the order.

[madinmaryland]

33. Who will be responsible for seeing that these officials show up for the hearings, and

who will actually bring these officials to court? This could get real ugly real fast.

[MineralMan]

78. The Federal Marshal' s Service

enforces orders of the federal courts. That's who. The have full powers of arrest and even have their own SWAT teams. Look them up on Wikipedia.

[workinclasszero]

28. You are so right

When Trump deifies the Federal court system and the republican party that now controls the entire government allows it, America dies!

All bets are off then, anything goes.

Suspension of the bill of rights will be right behind it.

The Koch bros and Putin got us right where they want us!

We will descend into a republican theocracy and a new dark age. Glad I am old and won't have to see the end of this horrible shit stain on history.

How easy it was for Vladimir Putin to destroy the USA.

Without a shot fired.

[Duppers]

42. +100

Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2017, 08:00 PM - Edit history (2)

He'll take Andrew Jackson's stance: "They've made their ruling, now let them enforce it."

Without a Congress willing to impeach (McCain & Graham will fight with the Dems on this**), what do we have left? A CIA "fix"?


** And so it has begun - McCain & Graham are kicking him on this issue too! Yay!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028560772

[workinclasszero]

19. Conway Claims Judge's Ruling 'Really Doesn't Affect' Trump's Executive Order

Conway Claims Judge's Ruling 'Really Doesn't Affect' Trump's Executive Order
By Esme Cribb Published January 29, 2017, 10:42 AM EDT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028559487

Looks like we got a constitutional crisis on our hands then.

[MineralMan]

23. Kellyane Conway is a moron, really.

She has no actual understanding of any of this. She's just blustering, as is her wont.

[workinclasszero]

31. We will see soon enough

I hope the great American experiment that started in 1776 survives.

Just heard on MSNBC that Homeland Security is defying the orders of the Federal courts at this time.

[AlexSFCA]

35. interesting

Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2017, 04:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Bannon is going bold with the goal to induce a constitutional crisis. I can't quite think what is the purpose of it other than creating a chaos and have all media obsess with it while they quickly finalize the coup.

And, unfortunately, the logical resolutiom I can think of is induce an attack on US soil or elsewhere blamed on muslims and use nstional security as a reason of urgent muslim ban. This would come any day now?

The other side, the new administration is making a bold statement: we do not care about the rest of the world; not just in words but by action. This is necessary to start deligitimizing NATO, UN, EU.

[lastlib]

50. The coming Reichstag fire......

Followed by a "Night of Long Knives"............? Dark days are ahead.

[japple]

70. Reichstag fire. It will happen soon. Just my 2 cents.

And those spineless idiots in Congress and the idiots who voted for tRump will all say: "we were good Americans. We never saw this coming. We were good Christians..."

[bench scientist]

49. No, she is an attorney. This is deliberate.

The separation of powers is a fundamental tenant constitutional law. To defy a court order and to imply the Administration need not follow them, is a nullification of the entire Judiciary.
This is deliberate and quite frankly frightening.

[FBaggins]

64. It's too early to say that

Note that the President's order just says that they won't be allowed entry... while the court order says that they cannot be returned to their country of origin while the stay is in place.

For now - as long as they're detained at their ports of entry, no conflict exists between the two orders.

So she's actually correct (in this limited case).

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

89. Some attorneys are morons.

Louie Gomert, one of the biggest morons in Congress, was a judge. In the case of Conway, even if she isn't actually stupid, it might be simply that her extreme political bias has completely overwhelmed everything she ever learned in first-year con law.

[bench scientist]

95. Not overwhelmed, deliberately ignoring to advance an agenda

[beachbum bob]

29. 2018 is coming

[workinclasszero]

30. Serious question...

Will Trump and the republican party allow an election in 2018?

Of course his good pal Dictator Putin can hack it just like the last one so.....

[orangecrush]

36. Doing what I can, MM.

Sent a $100 to the ACLU, which for me is major.

If we all keep doing what we can, I think we will be o.k..

You have been right about many things that I did not see clearly.

I once believed Snowden and Assange were folk heros.

I swallowed a lot of RT's bullshit.

Sure has a bitter aftertaste, and I feel like an ass for having been taken in.

I hope it's not too late to wake up.

[Duppers]

44. Making a monthly donation.

[orangecrush]

55. Every bit counta

At this point, I wish I had sent the money I sent to Bernie to them, but who saw this coming?

[Kablooie]

39. Yes but we have a solid Republican Congress...

That is more interested in holding onto power than defending the Constitution or protecting American ideals and values.

[yodermon]

46. 1) repub house members are in ultra safe districts and will not impeach.

unless approval ratings *in those districts* drops to single digits.

2) we have to protest like South Korea did, and get 16 million in the streets every weekend.

The Constitution itself will not save us. If enough loyal trumpies infest the executive branch, who pray tell will enforce the laws and court orders from the other supposed co-equal branches of government?

We are our only hope. 1/5 of the population has to be willing to throw our bodies of the gears to stop this machine.

[drm604]

52. Even if the courts can't touch Trump

Can't they hold in contempt anyone who follows his illegal orders? He could be left screaming demands with no one obeyjng.

[stopbush]

53. What if they wrote a Constitution and the political party in power

ignored it?

A: we have what we're seeing today.

[AlexSFCA]

56. civil war

we are up against the military (they must follow commander in-chief) and national guard?

[jazzcat23]

97. Almost...

We are one state away from them being able to re-write the constitution...but I think they will just throw it out instead. So goes our country. I'm glad I'm not young anymore, for there is no future for them, my poor unsuspecting grandkids. Can you believe we have made it for centuries and in a week, it all goes to the toilet, thanks to herr drumpf. Time to get a passport...

[HipChick]

54. At Dulles Airport, we now have 4 members of congress

Link to tweet

/video/1

[CincyDem]

57. Unfortunately, I don't think this is a constitutional crisis...

...I think it's an exercise in teaching the Judiciary a lesson under the heading of "who's in charge". It's the playground bully standing up and saying "make me".

If Trump violates the order and the Legislature is unwilling to enforce judicial decisions...there's no "crisis". It's a fundamental rewriting of the constitution through enforcement actions (inactions). If we were watching this in any other country in the world, we'd be screaming "rule of law" and "coup d'etat" at the top of our lungs. But here - it's just another f'ing day trump land.

[Gothmog]

58. There will be a constitutional crisis before this is over

[The_Voice_of_Reason]

60. We need someone to start....

a very specific petition...it is time we as citizens use our right to redress, time to ask Congress to do their job and submit articles of impeachment.

[Rosco T.]

61. *IF*? they already have and Kellanne Gobbels said 'the orders said they don't apply to the Furher"

[BumRushDaShow]

62. We are 25 seats away from taking back the House

THIS should be one of the focuses. By taking the House, we can get impeachment hearings going and no Nancy Pelosi, "impeachment" CANNOT be "off the table" this time.

[FBaggins]

65. The House can only impeach

The Senate would have to vote to remove... and we're a looong way from taking back the Senate (given the playing field in 2018) - let alone a 2/3 vote.

[BumRushDaShow]

73. The Senate as it stands

is 52 (R) to 48 (D + I). It's not that far apart and the committees are reflecting almost equal membership because of this.

The key is that although there are more D seats up in 2018, if things are bad enough, we can hopefully hold what we have and perhaps get some of the few centrist Rs to convict if it ever got that far (i.e., in politics - these folks are out to save their butts and will throw anything and everything under the bus to do so).

But note that historically, the "threat" of the impeachment of Nixon for the Watergate coverup caused him to resign before the process played out. And he was already playing with a losing deck due to Spiro Agnew having to resign less than a year before due to the usual GOP transgressions of bribes, fraud, and other malfeasance.

[flamingdem]

66. +1

[Thekaspervote]

67. Thanks for posting

It's great when those that have a deeper understanding and knowledge of these things weigh in

[skamaria]

69. A friend posted this!

Today I shed a tear for the country I know and love, the one I believe still beats in the heart of most of its citizens.

The United States became the most powerful nation in the history of mankind not merely on the basis is its fearsome military, as lethal and well trained as that may be. It wasn't solely based on its unprecedented economic engine, as dynamic and far-reaching as that may be. America's greatness was forged by a Constitutional compact of grand and universal ideals that the country has tried to live up to ever since.

For generations, we have been an imperfect but vital beacon of freedom to a world too often wandering and failing in moral confusion. But that ultimate strength has dimmed considerably in light of the recent actions on immigration from the new President Donald Trump. We are turning around desperate refugees. We are singling out men, women, and children on the basis of their faith - and we are doing all of this with a randomness and capriciousness that defies reason.

A colleague of mine used the term "heartless" to describe so much ot the President's executive actions. Sadly, I found it an apt and dispiriting diagnosis—especially when faced with the results of his executive order on immigration. For over the years, I have seen that our greatest American leaders extol empathy rather than condemnation. They have known that in a complicated world, it is best to make policy choices with a scalpel - not a hacksaw. Sometimes, when our national security is threatened at the level of World War II, all-out conflict is the only recourse. But those instances are by far the exception.

From Vietnam, to the Iraq War, from Japanese internment camps to the centuries-long persecution on the basis of race and ethnicity that almost toppled our democratic experiment, broad strokes channeling our least compassionate and most jingoistic impulses have always made us weaker rather than stronger.

Today, in the wake of his one-man decision to wreck and reverse immigration policy so suddenly, there is chaos and confusion mixed with heartbreak and fear. A well thought-out, measured overhaul of immigration policy, with organized-in-advance measures to implement that is one thing—and one that perhaps a majority of Americans would support, But this mess, created overnight, is quite another. With this, we have embolden our enemies who want to see nothing else than to compete in a world of moral relativism. In the Cold War, our struggles over civil rights fed into the propaganda of the Soviet Union - as our new actions fuel the extremism Mr. Trump claims to be attacking.

Too many people during the campaign explained away Mr. Trump's irresponsible rhetoric as metaphors and euphemisms. These are not concepts he understands. Serious foreign policy experts know that this is a boon for our enemies and undermines our democratic principles. But too many Republican leaders in Congress, even ones that denounced the Muslim ban during the campaign, stand by cheering it now. History will mark their names, as it marks this moment.

This will be challenged in the courts, who may very well strike it down. But damage, real damage, has been done to our global image. I believe Vladimir Putin is smiling, and would-be global powers like China see a vacuum forming that they will be eager to fill.

I still remain optimistic that the vast majority of American people will recoil and speak out at this unwise policy. But whether we like it or not, as the detentions and impediments already springing up make all too real, this is the stated de facto policy of the United States today. Every day that it goes on, every day the chaos, confusion and heartbreak deepens, America loses more pieces of its soul and standing in the world.

[zentrum]

71. They will never, ever be

.....impeached by a Repug Congress. In fact, more and more Repugs will start taking a page from their playbook because they see that since they now control all three branches, they can be more and more transgressive. They can go wild and never face a real consequence.

Or so I fear. Because no matter what happens to T and Pence and Bannon---the idea of what America is has been shattered. Not just with this ugly immigration cleanse---but because of the debased show business the American government and the 4th Estate have become.

The administration isn't even Kardashian-like. It's Snooki. That alone shatters the idea of America in ways we can't even measure yet.

[flying_wahini]

77. The Revolution will not be televised......... NOT

Even if Trump backs down and behaves on this immigration mess now he knows the danger of

listening to Bannon and believing (signing) everything put in front of him.

[catbyte]

80. Nobody in Congress will impeach him. He is their useful idiot.

[MineralMan]

81. Actually, many Republicans would prefer Pence.

Many would much prefer him. So you might be surprised before long. If they impeach and remove Trump, they get Pence. Trust me, they all know that and are probably talking about it privately among themselves.

[catbyte]

82. I'm sure they would, but I don't see any of them having the will to pull the plug until the shit

really hits the fan. And who knows what fresh horrors will be visited on us all by then?

[yuiyoshida]

83. The problem seems to be that we have a Majority of Republicans in both

The house and Senate and if they say no Impeachment, even if he totally goes against the law, they will NOT ACT. He may as well be a Dictator.

[LisaL]

84. Yes, that's a huge problem.

I don't think republicans will try to impeach him, no matter what he does.

[yuiyoshida]

85. Like he said, He could shoot someone and get away with it

[kairos12]

92. Sorry, once the Senate refused to give Obama's pick for SCOTUS a hearing the

Reich Wing proved the Constitution was of no importance to them. Trump can do what he wants without fear of interference from Congress. It took Republicans to get rid of Nixon. They will never do it.

[Nitram]

110. they will do it if Republicans in Congress get scared enough about what Trump is doing.

War with China? Trade war with Mexico? Banning foreign-born corporate employees from returning to the U.S.? Even Republicans have a breaking point.

[Liberty Belle]

98. The judge could impose sanctions for defying a court order,

which could be civil or criminal contempt of court charges. The judge could order people jailed. Whether that could include the president I'm not sure, he may have immunity. But certainly his cabinet, advisors, and any law enforcement officers who are complicit could likely be held in contempt.

Any legal experts here?

That said, as I understand it, the judges orders (and they varied state by state) blocked deporting people for a week, pending a hearing. It did not require that they be released. However the judges did require that detainees be granted access to counsel.

If Trump or his minions deport people after the court order, or refuse them access to counsel, then they should be held in contempt and detained themselves. Criminal sanctions in my view would be in order if they sent someone back to a country where they face harm in defiance of an order to protect them, but I haven't heard of a case yet where anyone was deported after the court order (though some were deported before)

[sellitman]

99. President Bannon

Is enacting a GOP wet dream. They wouldn't Impeach Trump if he ran nude down Pennsylvania Ave.

(Sorry for that graphic)

[YOHABLO]

100. So if you are in Political Science 101, pay close attention.

Speaking to all you young folks out there in school. Learn what governs us, learn it well. It's what the Trump cabal cannot step on or over.

[rtracey]

102. sorry

Sorry, but as long as the Repubs are in charge of both houses of congress, Fuckump will NOT be impeached..... I'll say it again.... AS LONG AS THE REPUBS ARE IN CHARGE OF BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS, FUCKUMP WILL NOT BE IMPEACHED.

THE KEY WORDS ARE REPUBS AND BOTH HOUSES....

We are now into a necessity need. Our party MUST AT ALL COST come together and get younger more progressive candidate elected to at least the Senate. We need checks and balances. A democratic controlled Senate will go a LONG way to putting Fuckump in his place... sadly similar to what the Republican controlled house did to Mr. Obama

[NewJeffCT]

104. they're trying to set a precedent for more extreme actions in the near future

If they are not stopped now, it will become progressively harder to stop them next time.

We need several Republicans in the Senate - John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Susan Collins, and maybe one or two others - to draw a line in the sand on Trump. The Democrats alone can't do it.

And, of course, we'd need 25 or so Republicans in the House to also join with them.

Of course, if this does happen, will we get our Reichstag Fire moment?

[GliderGuider]

111. That's my concern too.

Trump is ignoring everyone who opposes what he's doing right now, up to the SC. But if a coherent opposition group gets formed, including top Congress and Senate people form both parties, and the media starts supporting them, all bets are off. It will take maybe a week to form such a united front, and get it rolling. That's Trump's timeline.

[randr]

106. I hope his radical Christian supporters take note that it was two bibles he swore upon

[UCmeNdc]

112. Trump thinks he is King, the constitution does not apply for the King.

If you do not put Trump in check now you will be in for a world of hurt later.

[Hekate]

113. Took Judicial branch off Whitehouse.gov; put it back. I'm trying to find link for popup headline