Jill Stein spoiled the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton

[still_one]

"For those who worried that insufficient liberal support for Hillary Clinton would wind up electing Donald Trump, you were right.

According to a tweet from Cook Political Report’s Dave Wasserman on Thursday, the margin of difference separating the president-elect from his Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton in the three “Blue Wall” states — Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan — was less than the total number of votes received by Green Party nominee Jill Stein in each of those states:

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/02/jill-stein-spoiled-the-2016-election-for-hillary-clinton/

In Michigan Hillary lost by .3%. Jill Stein received 1.1%. Similar results in Wisconsin and other critical swing states

The lessons of 2000 are soon forgotten, and this time the damage done could very well be unrecoverable.

[PJMcK]

1. Please, enough of this.

Thank you.

[Angry Dragon]

2. I agree

[physioex]

3. Agree...

The real issue now is foreign involvement and influence.

[sarah FAILIN]

29. the Russians were involved with pushing Stein too

They did not do this half way and they knew what they were doing. It is all part of the big picture.

[bettyellen]

4. I think we need to be reminded of this daily since the Dem shaming thing is common

And Dems are being manipulated into condemning very good reps over a single vote or quote. The purity crap is a trap.

[stevenleser]

40. Agreed. We need more frequent reminders. nt

[uponit7771]

9. No, we need the facts ... if the info is factual its good for us... period

[truebluegreen]

84. Well OK. It was Stein.

All this time I thought it was
Bernie
Comey
Racists
Misogynists
Voter suppression
The alt-left
The Russians
The Media
.
.
.
.
But no, it was Jill Stein / the Greens...just like in 2000 when 200,000+ Democrats crossed over and voted for Bush, but it was All. Nader's. Fault. when 87,000 Floridians picked him.

[Cha]

19. No. These are FACTS that will not be swept under the rug.

[George II]

28. Why? We keep hearing that we have to "learn from our mistakes".

[Gothmog]

43. Why? The Greenies gave us both Trump and Bush

[Blue_true]

66. Why enough? Where is Jill Stein now?

Why isn't she making daily public statements against Trump? Don't mention Hillary Clinton, her political career is over, but I am willing bet that Stein resurfaces in 2020 to run again. Stein should be speaking out against Trump, he is threatening to damage the very things she and her supporters claimed to care about.

[Chasstev365]

5. And this post is accomplishing what?

I don't care for Jill Stein and voted for Hillary, but would argure James Comey and Valdimir Putin lost the election for Hillary, not Stein.

However, We have got to channel our energies in fighting tne Orange Menace. Please stop lamenting tbe loss in November and get motivated to fight for our lives!

[uponit7771]

20. Facts, I'd like to know what happened and why

[Mika]

6. Actually, it was Trump voters who spoiled the election for Hil. If only enough had voted for Hil ...

... she would have won.

[VoicesAcrossAmerica]

21. Exactly

I hate the notion that any vote not cast for Clinton belonged to her. She lost because she received fewer votes where it mattered. The job of the people running her campaign was to win the electoral college. Her campaign failed to create a coalition of voters who could do this.

[lapucelle]

80. There was a leadership deficit in one of the major factions, and there were

loud voices (like Linda Sarsour's) of those who were more interested in keeping the Democrat out of the White House than in saving the country from Trump.

Hillary lost for a number of reasons. Those who had a hand in electing Trump through action or inaction need to understand that they own the consequences. As Newsweek's Kurt Eichenwald so succinctly puts it:

"If you voted for Trump because you supported him, congratulations on your candidate’s victory. But if you didn’t vote for the only person who could defeat him and are now protesting a Trump presidency, may I suggest you shut up and go home. Adults now need to start fixing the damage you have done."

[Cha]

24. What, are you denying the FACT of the OP?

With your little icon?

Trying to take away the blame of stein lying that there was no difference between the two?

[Mika]

26. My icon was intended for the Trump voters who didn't vote for Hillary. Period.

Here's an icon for you ...

[Cha]

54. trump voters were never going to vote for Hillary.. they were fed

a lot of BullShite.. just like the stein voters.

And we're stuck with this fascist asshole who has a war on REALITY.

[JHB]

36. And let's not leave out the "responsible" Republicans who voted for Johnson...

...and boy howdy are they responsible. Cowards who didn't want Trump but just couldn't bring themselves to vote for "that woman".

Three times as many of these as the Steiners.

[Gothmog]

44. You got to be kidding

[Snackshack]

76. True.

Thank you.

[nini]

7. Even I'm sick of this and I had one big mouth for while over it all

We have much bigger fish to fry right now and if we do not fight together we will lose.

MOVE FORWARD!

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. And how may votes did the Libertarians get?

The Libertarians ran two Republican ex governors and drew far more votes than Stein did. Let's stay focused on issues and running the strongest candidates possible who share our beliefs, while fiercely resisting the Trump regime.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Maybe if the DNC chair hadnt been so wildly out of step on locking up medical marijuana users

We might have won a few of those gary johnson voters, too.

On Medical Marijuana, Debbie Wasserman Schultz Sounds Like a Republican

[applegrove]

10. And she had dinner or lunch with Putin in Russia. I wonder if he influenced

her in any way? It was some state dinner or awards ceremony before the election.

[FBaggins]

11. That is not demonstrated by the linked article

The "Blue Wall" (tm) states ended up with serious turnout issues among the Democratic base. Lots of people stayed home who previously voted for Obama.

All the article shows is that more people voted for Stein than the gap between Clinton and Trump. There's no evidence at all that someone who voted for Stein would have shown up on election day and voted for Clinton if Stein had not been on the ballot.

The same can be said, BTW, for Nader/Gore.

[LisaL]

12. Gore lost FL by less than 1,000 votes. Nader got way, way more than that.

I fail to see how Gore wouldn't have gotten at least 1,000 of Nader voters, if Nader wasn't running.

[cloudbase]

79. If Gore would have won his home state,

none of this would matter.

Winning your own state is pretty much a "gimme."

[LisaL]

83. Tell that to Trump.

[dawg]

90. +1

[Rex]

17. Gore won after all the votes were finally tallied.

Of course Bush was long sworn in as POTUS by then. I can't imagine why people forget Gore won FL.

[former9thward]

58. No he didn't.

Fake news.

Media Recount: Bush Won the 2000 Election

In the first full study of Florida’s ballots since the election ended, The Miami Herald and USA Today reported George W. Bush would have widened his 537-vote victory to a 1,665-vote margin if the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court would have been allowed to continue, using standards that would have allowed even faintly dimpled “undervotes” — ballots the voter has noticeably indented but had not punched all the way through — to be counted.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/media-jan-june01-recount_04-03/

Do you think PBS is lying?

[Cattledog]

13. One of the reasons we now have tRump. Along with her politically "pure" devotees.

[Rex]

14. The comment section is priceless.

[madinmaryland]

15. Aww geesh. Not this shit again.

[m-lekktor]

16. No candidate is owed or entitled to votes. How does anybody know

these Stein voters would have voted for Hillary otherwise? I know folks on the left who haven't voted for a DEM in years and probably never will. They didn't support Bernie because he ran in the DEM primaries, they might have supported him if he ran 3rd party.

I get so fucking sick of this ridiculous argument.

[NanceGreggs]

72. But every citizen ...

... is entitled to a president chosen by the majority, and not a president who "won" thanks to those who threw away their votes by voting for someone they KNEW would never win.

Every vote for Stein was a throwaway - and those who voted for her KNEW it. Every third party vote was one less vote that Trump had to overcome to "win".

I hope those who thought it important to "vote their conscience" by voting Third Party are happy with the outcome they helped bring about.

[uppityperson]

94. Aside from being a recurring pita on DU, taking pride in helping to elect Don and

in all the shit he's doing, all the harm he's doing to so many, including you, makes me think even less of you. "True progressive" who cares only for herself? Sounds like you and the smal handed narcissist are 2 of a kind. Gaslighters anonymous.

[juxtaposed]

18. total bull shit, keep beating the same drum and lose the next election, and all credibility.

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. Give it a rest.

Please.......... .....she lost it on her own.

[RadiationTherapy]

23. Right, our candidate couldn't swing another .3% so a 3rd party's 1% is to blame.

That seems a bit like the candidate's shortcoming in my opinion. I hope the DNC can do better in the mid-terms.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. ".....this time the damage done could very well be unrecoverable."

And this is why I think this is the perfect time for Democrats to put some distance between themselves and the further reaches of "the left". Things may get a little worse before they get better, but I'm damned if I can think of a time when the party has been at a lower ebb.

Howard Dean's 50 state strategy brought a good many moderates and blue dogs into the party, but we have to recognize that there are a lot of states between the west coast and the nation's capital, and those red states are never going to elect a hardcore liberal. The much maligned "Third Way" and "Middle-of-the-Roader's" were drummed out because they were insufficiently pure. Well, that has cost us BIG. I'm not a huge fan of Joe Manchin, Heidi Heitkamp, et al, but we must recognize that they are an endangered species. I love Claire McCaskill, but she's in the same boat. There may be times when these people will feel the need to put the wishes of their constituents ahead of party purity, and while they should be called on it, they shouldn't be drummed out of the party, because the asshole that will replace them will be diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING liberals stand for.

As President Obama was fond of saying, "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good". There's a lot of rebuilding to do, and we must accept that continued outreach to Greens, and other far leftists has caused nothing but disaster for us and the country.

[democratisphere]

27. Yes. Along with a host of others.

[Cha]

31. Glad to see this is back ALIVE! We can certainly discuss

jill stein pushing there's no difference between Hillary and blotus..

That was dangerous propaganda.

Mahalo, stillone!

[meadowlander]

32. You're never going to hold together the Democratic party by vote shaming third party candidates

and their supporters.

The problem is that neither party is really representing the interests or addressing the concerns of the majority of Americans. If you want to win votes, address those interests and concerns.

[Jamaal510]

46. This false equivalence

"The problem is that neither party is really representing the interests or addressing the concerns of the majority of Americans. If you want to win votes, address those interests and concerns."

is a main part of the problem, though. People continue to say that neither party is doing anything for the average person and hint that they're both similar, even though there is a mountain of evidence otherwise. For example, Democrats have advocated minimum wage increases, hate crime legislation, contraceptive rights, expanded health care, etc. while the GOP opposes these things. Unemployment has historically been lowered under Democratic administrations and governorships while it has increased under Republican rule. There are fewer wars for the U.S. with Democrats in power than with the GOP in power. Democrats have embraced Black Lives Matter while the GOP treats it as thuggish. And the list goes on.

[bravenak]

73. +1

[Generator]

33. Putin's puppetta

She got a nice thank you basket from Vlad.

[Blue_true]

67. The thing that enrages me is she has vanished.

Was she at the Women's March front and center like she was at the Democratic National Convention? Every time I see her name, my jaws clench shut, in teeth gnawing rage.

[pnwmom]

34. Thanks. So the Green party tossed the win to the Rethugs -- AGAIN.

Because they're just so high-minded and pure.

[Blue_true]

68. The thing that gets me is that except for

Immigration, Trump is attacking every single thing the Greens claimed they care about. Yet, not a peep from their party leaders or Stein. Hillary Clinton has no obligation to speak out as I have seen some here demand, she won't be running in 2020 like Stein almost certainly will be. Stein need to step forward and daily take on Trump, as should the Greens.

[NurseJackie]

35. What was her motivation? Surely she's intelligent enough to know she couldn't win...

... was it money? Pride? Vanity?

Did she want to be a spoiler to create havoc and destroy our nation?

Was it the myopic and unrealistic "burn-it-down and rebuild" mentality?

She (and other "outsiders" like her) are selfish political saboteurs and opportunists. I'm convinced that they truly understand the limits of what they can realistically and actually achieve on their own, so they must be content to sabotage and cripple others, while hoodwinking naive, gullible and idealistic voters.

#Sad

[still_one]

37. I am pretty sure it is the same logic that Ralph Nader, that a trump election

would shake up the system and provide a real rallying point for the third parties.

The problem with that thinking is that the system will be shook up in such bad ways, that we might not recover.

[pnwmom]

69. She made money for herself and her party, especially afterwards with

the millions she raised for the recounts -- the unspent part of which (almost all in PA, since they didn't do a recount) she got to keep.

[aikoaiko]

38. Did you miss your chance to post this Dec 2016 article in post-mortem or are you resurrecting it?

This article is not compelling because it presumes that Jill Stein voters would have voted for HRC had she not run her campaign as she did.

[George II]

39. December 2016 was just a few weeks ago.

[aikoaiko]

48. The article is 8-weeks old and it was hashed out ad nauseam if you recall.

And it was an appropriate topic for post-mortem.

In the spirit of moving on, this OP just drags us backward. Perhaps there are some who still need the roll around in the muck of blame, but not me.

[Cha]

47. Oh it's very compelling.. jill stein said there was no difference

between Hillary and blotus.

It most certainly does need to be pointed out that she lied.. she was pushed by Russia, too.

[aikoaiko]

49. That might be interesting article to discuss, but that's not what this is OP is about.

Maybe you can post an OP about Stein's opinion about the differences between HRC and Trump were wrong.

I think the difference was obvious, but have at it.

[Cha]

51. It does need to be pointed out that stein got that

many votes in Michigan under false pretenses.

And, we're stuck with this asshole.

[aikoaiko]

56. Sure, if you think Jill Stein voters would have pull Hillary through had the Green party not existed

or if Stein didn't campaign hard against HRC, then I hope that belief sets your world right.

There is no evidence they would have voted for HRC, libertarian, or just stayed home. We don't know.

[Cha]

59. It's not "my world" I'm talking about. It's the Planet.. the

Greens voted for stein and we're stuck with a Climate Change Denier.

[aikoaiko]

61. Sure those two facts are true but the 1st doesn't necessarily cause the 2nd

Last edited Sat Jan 28, 2017, 01:56 AM - Edit history (1)

It might, but also might not.

[Cha]

63. I will not sweep stein's responsibiity in this Planetary Crisis under the rug..

"US Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein has said that her supporters should "absolutely not" vote for Hillary Clinton to stop a Donald Trump presidency, even in a swing state.

In an interview with Mehdi Hasan, host of Al Jazeera's Upfront, Stein said that Clinton "is not different enough" from the New York real estate businessman, to enable her or the Democratic Party "to save your job, save your life, or save the planet."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/jill-stein-hillary-trump-presidency-160928210338543.html

[still_one]

55. Actually it is, when Jill Stein said that her supporters should absolutely not vote for Hillary

"US Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein has said that her supporters should "absolutely not" vote for Hillary Clinton to stop a Donald Trump presidency, even in a swing state.

In an interview with Mehdi Hasan, host of Al Jazeera's Upfront, Stein said that Clinton "is not different enough" from the New York real estate businessman, to enable her or the Democratic Party "to save your job, save your life, or save the planet."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/jill-stein-hillary-trump-presidency-160928210338543.html

That was not unlike the argument Ralph Nader used in 2000

which by the way was referred to in the OP

"The lessons of 2000 are soon forgotten"

[stevenleser]

41. Thank you for this OP nt

[Gothmog]

42. Stein helped elect Trump

There is a special place in a warm region for her

[Cha]

45. No kidding! And, under false pretenses too... her and sarandon.

damn them and their sitting on $$$$$ while the poor in our country will be going through HELL. And, the world will fall in decline.

[HassleCat]

52. Let's give credit to my favorite group.

Registered Democrats who voted for Trump.

[hrmjustin]

53. There is a special place in hell for Jill Stein!

She helped get a Nazi elected and did it with a smile.

Thank you for this post!

[loyalsister]

86. Why people were motivated to vote for her

is worthy of some self examination and self correction in the realm of candidate selection.

[Captain Stern]

57. So? What's your point?

Yeah, Jill Stein got 1.1%, and if all of the people that voted for her, had voted for Clinton instead, Clinton would have won Michigan.

The same can be said of Gary Johnson. He got 3.6% of the vote. If half of his votes had gone to Clinton, she would have won Michigan.

And then there's Trump. If just a small percentage of the people that had voted for him, had voted for Clinton instead we'd have won Michigan.

Those darn spoilers.

Here's my point: The Greens, Republicans, and Libertarians are all our OPPONENTS. They are not Democrats. Why be pissed off because people that have declared outright, that they are not Democrats, don't vote for our candidate?

The Greens have a lot more in common with us than with the Republicans, but they're still an opposing party. Politically, they are not our friends.

[still_one]

60. good point, but it is your last sentence, that drives the point home. That a group

that prides themselves on protecting the environment, civil rights, etc. would effectively stand by, and allow everything they say they stand for be destroyed, is paradoxical at the least, and self-destructive at the worst

[bhikkhu]

62. Trumpists spoiled the election

no other blame need be laid

[oasis]

64. Swing state voters who DID NOT vote for Hillary bear responsibility

for whatever goes down under the Trump/Pence regime.

[Maru Kitteh]

65. Jill Stein was Putin's OTHER useful fucking IDIOT in the 2016 elections.

RT's coverage of her campaign read like a love story - for a reason.

Those who voted for Stein hold a share in Trump's election and they know it.

[pnwmom]

70. Yes. And last year she had dinner in Russia, seated at the same table with Putin.

And Michael Flynt. That must have been exciting for her.

[Maru Kitteh]

71. Putin sure looked happy about it, that's for sure! Home run for him.

A good time was had by all.

[n2doc]

74. Well, fucking plan for it

There will ALWAYS be 3rd parties. You cannot outlaw them by fiat. And there will always be those who vote for them, no matter what.

And this sort of whining doesn't do any good whatsoever. Learn, plan and do better next time in reaching out to those outside of the blue strongholds.

90+ million eligible voters DIDN"T vote last time. Perhaps your attention should be upon them.

[MineralMan]

75. No. People willing to listen to her did.

Completely unqualified for the office of President, she managed to convince far too many people that there was an actual alternative to the two major candidates. The result is obvious on the front pages now.

She didn't spoil anything. Her supporters, in their foolishness, did.

[killbotfactory]

77. It's everyone's fault but the Clinton campaign.

[rock]

78. Well, finally

Someone expresses an opinion based on solid facts. We have a lot of posts saying x would have won yada yada yada, all opinion, all without supporting evidence, all wrong (in my opinion). Thanks.

[truebluegreen]

81. Codswollop.

[Demsrule86]

82. I worried about it starting with the primary...I had hoped...but

now look what is happening...I am so glad I did everything I could and continue to do so...those who did not vote for the nominee have blood on their hands.

[California_Republic]

85. I wonder how it might work if the Dems invite the Greens to be part of the administration?

A month or so before the election, meet with the Greens. Greens tell their voters, for the top of the ticket, vote Dem.
The Democratic administration then includes Greens in the government, like working with them to choose the EPA chief.

Sort of like the European government that needs to build a coalition government.

IMO: The Greens have a right to form a party. Not all Greens would vote Dem if the party didn’t exist. Dems should be strong on the environment and less voters would consider the Greens.

[Throd 2.0]

87. No candidate is entitled to votes. They have to earn them. n/t

[uppityperson]

91. Have you tried origami?

[UCmeNdc]

89. No Republican Governors blocked the ability for Democratic voters to vote.

Stein had very little impact.

[dawg]

93. She was certainly a factor.

As were all those who continued to harp on Hillary's supposed "flaws" long after her nomination was a foregone conclusion.

[alarimer]

95. Plenty of Democrats didn't actually turn out.

That was down considerably from Obama.

[Gothmog]

96. Stein scammed donors with her bogus recount

[Cha]

97. Yes, she did.. she owns trump.. she's part owner of this planetary crisis.

"US Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein has said that her supporters should "absolutely not" vote for Hillary Clinton to stop a Donald Trump presidency, even in a swing state.

In an interview with Mehdi Hasan, host of Al Jazeera's Upfront, Stein said that Clinton "is not different enough" from the New York real estate businessman, to enable her or the Democratic Party "to save your job, save your life, or save the planet."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/jill-stein-hillary-trump-presidency-160928210338543.html

[Wabbajack_]

98. Everyone knew the stakes

And those voters chose Stein anyway. What makes you think they would have chosen Hillary over a blank ballot?

[still_one]

99. They should have known, but not unlike those who watch fox news, they were

duped.

When she told her supporters that they should "absolutely NOT vote for Hillary, even in swing states, and along with her VP choice spewed the right wing lies of Benghazi, and using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, she became the anti-Clinton propaganda machine on the left, even going as far as suggesting that Bernie Sanders does NOT have "deeply held principles but rather that he’s someone who has “drunk the Kool-aid"

She was constantly setting up a false equivalency between trump and Hillary, and continuously lying about how Hillary would be more dangerous:

Jill Stein: Trump, Clinton choice like death by 'gunshot' or 'strangulation'

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/296578-jill-stein-choice-between-trump-and-clinton-like-death-by

"Jill Stein on why peace is more likely under Trump and the threat of an emerging Demo-Republican party."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/10/jill_stein_thinks_nuclear_war_is_less_likely_under_trump.html

In an interview with Al Jazeera’s UpFront host Mehdi Hasan called her out for:

pretending she might win, despite polling at only 3-4%

denying that a progressive should be more alarmed by Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton

dismissing any personal responsibility to “get out of the way” of those working to stop Trump

rejecting the advice of prominent fellow Green Noam Chomsky to swing-state Greens to vote against Trump by voting for Clinton

immaturely insulting the man she asked to be her running mate, Sen. Bernie Sanders, who now passionately urges voters to stand with Clinton, by suggesting he’s not acting on deeply held principles but rather that he’s someone who has “drunk the Kool-Aid.”

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/10/09/jill-stein-swing-state-voters-should-still-vote-for-me-even-if-it-means-donald-trump-gets-elected-2/

Yes, she was a factor, just as Ralph Nader was a factor in 2000, except there is one difference, the country may never recover from the damage that trump will do