Anguished advice to my liberal American friends

[GliderGuider]

OK, I'm ready to say something that many of you will feel is right over the top.

I'm convinced now that what we are seeing in the USA is the opening salvo in an all-out war against Western liberalism. The entire philosophy of liberalism and the people who carry it are regarded as a scourge upon the earth by those who are now in the ascendance. They want it gone, and they are now in a position to begin the process.

This is the beginning of a moral cleansing. It is being energized by right-wing talk (hate) radio - which carries very disturbing echoes of Rwanda. I've suspected that something far more evil than just Trump's stupidity was afoot, and now I'm pretty sure what it is.

Over the next few years liberals are going to be in mortal peril in the USA. You may call my hysterical if you wish, but the evidence is there. Aleksander Dugin, "Putin's Rasputin", has stated publicly that he desires the elimination of liberalism in the West. He's the one who saw how to light the fires of hate in the USA by causing the election of Trump.

My American liberal friends, it's time to make some very hard choices about resisting or fleeing. Shit is about to become far too real.

Google Aleksandr Dugin yourself to see why I would say something this outrageous.

BTW, I'm Canadian.

[gordianot]

1. No one is going to be immune of this onslaught.

International Fascism is back someone needs to speak out clearly. Last time Churchill and Roosevelt made their point who will it be this time? No one has set fire to Congress yet Trump does not have that level of support. We will have to see what today brings.

No one is safe anywhere.

[GliderGuider]

4. Today he starts the process of closing your borders.

The opening shots will be against refugees and illegals.

[gordianot]

6. What little exists of his administration is falling apart.

Trump is mentally ill his actions and beliefs are not those of a rational person. Unfortunately he has access to nuclear launch codes.

[GliderGuider]

8. Trump the man is essentially irrelevant now, except as a pen.

He's being fed his instructions from the wings.

If I had to hazard a guess, the path of action goes from Aleksandr Dugin to Putin, to the Heritage Foundation, to Steve Bannon, to Trump's pen for signature.

What is important to them is not Trump the man, but Trump's signature. We have to stop looking at Trump. His behaviour is a distraction. Paying too much attention to it could result in unnecessary deaths. We need to focus attention on the real players.

[jalan48]

12. The new head of the CIA, Mike Pompeo, has strong ties to the Koch Brothers.

In fact, he has been referred to as the "Koch Brother's Congressman". The Koch Brothers now have direct access to out secret government at the highest level. Oligarch's are truly running our country as Bernie Sanders has been pointing out for many months.

[SticksnStones]

20. Exactly as Grover Norquist called for

All we need is a guy who will sign this stuff.

What I can't seem to wrap my head around is....is the right's ONLY goal about money? Access to more of it, less to have to pay into running their communities and the country. Is it only about money?

All of their battlecries seem to pare down to money. Ok, you have all the money. Now what?

[lastlib]

31. Many times I have asked, What is it that conservatives want to conserve?

The only answer that I can come up with is: Wealth for the wealthy, power for the powerful, strength for the strong--Fuck everyone else. That's conservatism in a nutshell.

[narnian60]

102. Yes.

[GliderGuider]

36. The ones who only want money are themselves stooges.

The real goal, as far as I can make out, is the total destruction of all Western democratic states and the liberal philosophy they enshrine. The money guys are simply a means to that end.

[SticksnStones]

40. But to what end? What's the mission after liberalism is dead?

Killing off the states that engender liberal ideals...that seems like a means to some end. But what's the prize in the end?

I mean besides plain ol' WINNING!

Then what?

[GliderGuider]

42. There are several tiers of influence at play here.

A chess analogy:

At ground level are the average people, conservatives and liberals at war with each other, and those with no skin in either game. They know virtually nothing, and are driven by emotion. They are the pawns.

Above them you have the front-line politicians, including State governments and Congress. They know nothing about the end-game. They are the rooks and bishops.

Above them are the Rex Tillersons of the world. They care about money, but I don't think they know about the end-game either. They are the knights.

Then there is Trump. He's the King. Limited mobility but the center of the game. H doesn't know about the end-game either.

Finally you have the Dugin/Putin/Bannon axis. For them this is ideological. They don't care a fuck about money, they just want to destroy the west to rid the world of its corruption. They are the Queens: the pieces with the full goal in mind, and the actual power.

How do we achieve checkmate from here??

[SticksnStones]

54. The chess analogy is spot on.

and my inner child wants to upend the chess board while screaming "you cheat and I'm not playing anymore"!

Still once you've got all the power, then what? Countless minions peeling your grapes? Plan a colonization of Mars?

The kind of power they seem to want to amass, whether through ballots or bullets, what does it do but make your chosen few richer. You can't sustain a society with that plan.

I think we need to execute a game plan that uses many of the same techniques but without losing our souls in the process.

Here in America, I think it's about convincing all those millions who didn't vote that they simply must. I think voting should be mandatory, like filing taxes or stopping at red lights.

Voting should be not an option of citizenship but rather the dues you pay to belong to the club. And frankly, if someone wants to vote for None of the Above, so be it. But get your behind to the ballot box.

Election Day needs to be a National Holiday. Pawn to ballot box.

[Delphinus]

117. Yes - you're so right -

you can't sustain a society with a plan like that.

For so long I have said that very thing - in different words, but the same point: they (the rich) need us to serve them. I don't know what they are thinking, trying to wipe us out.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

95. Ha! Bannon as the Red Queen (Angela Lansbury) in the Manchurian Candidate movie! . . nt

[calimary]

145. MOST interesting analogy, GliderGuider.

Sure seems to fit. Kinda like a custom glove.

[anarch]

74. this is something that's always bothered me

I think I can succinctly summarize the goals of progressive liberalism: to organize society in a sustainable way that most equitably benefits all members of that society, with the goal of maintaining peace and prosperity that can be handed down to future generations.

The right wing? As best as I can put it, their goal seems to be to create a system that effectively maintains the concentration of wealth for the privileged few, and most efficiently allows that privileged ruling class to continue to extract wealth from the poor huddled masses--and the best way to do that seems to be to ensure that the lower classes are set at each others' throats, fighting amongst themselves just to maintain sheer sustenance so that we put up with (or don't notice) the privileged class taking everything for themselves. Prosperity would be handed down to future generations in this case too, but only for the rich few...and that concentration of wealth sort of requires that a great many people remain impoverished. I guess there's also some kind of religious component that's important for some of them--something like the divine right of kings, which somehow or other makes it imperative to maintain an oligarchy because it's God's will or some such...

Or, more succinctly: a functioning society where we take care of our own, vs. a situation where it's basically everyone for themselves for all but the privileged class (who benefit from the suffering of the masses).

[SticksnStones]

76. Very well said.

I do think though, that the religious beliefs they stir into their stew is nothing more than a means for assuaging their collective consciences.

You'd be hard pressed to find a public conservative whose piety matches his/her voting record.

[wordpix]

131. I think the repugs just want to get richer and have more guns

that's it. Even if they're billionaires, they want to have more billions. And if they have an arsenal of high powered weapons, they want more weapons. Simple

[workinclasszero]

106. "Ok, you have all the money. Now what?"

Power.

Naked political power.

The kind of power that can suppress science and bend the "truth" to your will.

The kind of power that can set up a theocracy on the bones of a dead democracy.

All the money was just a steppingstone to the POWER!

Did Hitler just do it for money or power?

Stalin? Mao? Pol Pot? The Ayatollah?

Power takes money with no recourse to the victim, power rules.

And the republicans have all the power now.

[GliderGuider]

109. Actually, the Republicans have very little of the power that counts right now.

They think they do, but only because they still think they're playing a national game. When you understand that it is transnational, and the power that is being sought is the power to utterly destroy a society - Democrats and Republicans alike - the picture changes dramatically. That is the sort of power the Dugin/Putin/Bannon axis now have in their hands. Bannon is a RINO - he's actually self-identified Leninist who wishes to destroy the country. Don't ask me how someone like that ended up on Trump's team - ask Putin.

This is WWIII. It's already under way, and in terms of the last war, the West is basically Poland.

[workinclasszero]

110. Undoubtedly Putin's in to destroy western liberalism and democracy

Trump is his faithful puppet.

As he creates a power vacuum by building walls around our boarders, building trade barriers and becoming isolationist, Trump will be busily dismantling NATO for his good buddy the Russian Bear who will gladly move into that vacuum.

Hegemony.

Putin will have it in spades over Europe with us out of the picture or actively on his side, whatever.

And with Trump's saber rattling towards China a hot war between the USA and China would leave mother Russia in the drivers seat worldwide, eh?

Do you think Putin is blindsiding republicans with his tool BLOTUS Trump?

You may have something here for sure!

[GliderGuider]

111. Yes, I think Republicans were as blindsided as we were.

Monopolar Eurasian hegemony is the goal. Either China is on the menu or Putin assumes that they will soon fail economically and ecologically, and thus not be a player for more than a decade or so. IMHO.

[Sunny05]

45. I agree.

I don't have whole big picture figured out -- well, maybe now that I've read this. I have thought he's just a signature, though, for some time. Am learning Dugin now. The bannon/putin part regrettably, horrifyingly makes sense.

Also, what about ryan? And priebus. Not sure if priebus a conduit for ryan or if functioning at same level of influence or attempted influence. And btw, which is it -- real or attempted real influence? Or does it depend on situation?

[gordianot]

59. When you put Trumps thoughts to words you sound as irrational as he.

That is why Ryan reputed the millions of illegal voters in the current Trump allegation. If true every election result in the United States is tainted and as Congressman Lewis observed illegitimate. From this day forward there is a spectre on the American government proclaimed from the top down.

[wordpix]

132. having he most $ makes you the kingpin. Money is power to these people

they don't even care about their own health or their children's. If they did they wouldn't be polluting the planet like they do

[old guy]

56. Trump has always been the means to an end.

This is going to be a real right wing horror show which he has no control over, even if he doesn't know it.

[gordianot]

67. Trump will need to be disposed of first, safely.

I worry if there are suicidal tendencies Trump does not show caution in harming himself in what he says.

That would be a first Presidential suicide.

[world wide wally]

44. Have you noticed that the further Trump slips into mental illness, the more the

GOP coalesces around him and protects him?
They are almost ready to throw out the Constitution to defend him. Look at Rubio and McCain and Graham in the past few days. Some harsh language, some macho talk, and then they cave to whatever the man baby cries for.
Scarey times, folks.

[workinclasszero]

104. Yeah...let that sink in America...and the world in general.

Trump is mentally ill his actions and beliefs are not those of a rational person. Unfortunately he has access to nuclear launch codes.

[lastlib]

27. I think you are 100 percent right on this!!

Last edited Wed Jan 25, 2017, 10:19 PM - Edit history (1)

They want to take us back to the 1700s--socially, economically, and politically. The economics of Adam Smith, the politics of the Tories, and the morality of the Puritans.They may not want slavery back, but I suspect that is mere genuflection to what helped to push us down the road to a liberal democracy. It's going to take all the courage we can muster to fight their agenda. There may be blood. Dig in, folks! We (literally) have everything to lose.

[Sunny05]

50. All good points.

I wouldn't put slavery past them, if they could get it. But your points economics, poltics, morality -- spot on.

Okay, so this and OP in to something. Now, where do ryan and oriebus fit in? Another axis? Will they have signif long-term influence? Or do they not fit into scenario, significantly, anyway?

[no_hypocrisy]

2. It's the reversal of The Enlightenment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

The Enlightenment (also known as the Age of Enlightenment or the Age of Reason;[1] in French: le Siècle des Lumières, lit. 'the Century of Lights'; and in German: Aufklärung, 'Enlightenment')[2] was an intellectual movement which dominated the world of ideas in Europe in the 18th century. The Enlightenment included a range of ideas centered on reason as the primary source of authority and legitimacy, and came to advance ideals like liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government, and separation of church and state.[3][4] In France, the central doctrines of les Lumières were individual liberty and religious tolerance in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The Enlightenment was marked by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy – an attitude captured by the phrase Sapere aude, "Dare to know".[5]

[GliderGuider]

3. Yes, that's exactly what it is. nt

[cilla4progress]

62. A return to

The Dark Ages.

[LittleGirl]

14. after reading that description

you need to read the Rolling Stone article about Mike Pence posted yesterday, a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

[no_hypocrisy]

17. Out of the frying pan, into the fire . . . .

[LittleGirl]

87. yup. eom

[JNelson6563]

5. I completely agree.

These seeds have been sown and cultivated for decades. Now coming to fruition. It's a real Lord of the Rings kind of moment, middle earth stands upon the precipice.

Thinking of heading toward Canada myself. Don't have enough money to just go relocate. Perhaps some husband hunting is in order...(she said only half jokingly)

[Xipe Totec]

7. We've been here before. Don't worry

[GliderGuider]

9. I'm worried anyway. nt

[cilla4progress]

65. Where DOES

Canada fit into this? Is it only a matter of time?

[GliderGuider]

69. Yes, just a matter of time.

We managed to wriggle free of Harper, but Putin will get another chance once the coming economic collapse weakens us enough.

[cilla4progress]

72. Oh man

Terrifying. But you seem legit.

So what is your prescription for a way out of this?

[GliderGuider]

79. I don't have a way out. What I recommend is resistance to any degree necessary.

We're barely into the game, it's very hard to see how it's unfolding, or what the next events will be - the smokescreens are too thick. So no, I can't see a way out from here. Maybe one will appear, but D/P/B axis has been very good at closing off possible escape routes. We all need to keep our eyes open.

[wordpix]

133. reminds me of recent news: the other side's richies are going full "survival" mode

Digging underground shelters and stocking up for the coming uproar of the people. Think this was on NPR in past few days.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. Worry, but don't fret. Action helps avoid fretting. We will survive, damaged, but surviving.

Liberalism and progressivism and the Democratic Party and the best features of the United States will survive. They will be rebuilt in time.

Дональда Трампа and rightism in Europe is a major setback but ultimately they will fail, especially comrade tRump. Their failures will mean that in the long run liberalism will be more secure.

[annabanana]

16. When?

really . . .

[Xipe Totec]

21. Reagan Years

Massive shift to the right. That's what Bloom County was satirizing.

The pendulum swings both ways. The higher the swing, the stronger the rebound.

[annabanana]

25. Qualitative difference.

Reagan, as regressive as he was, operated within America's political norms.

[Xipe Totec]

26. The cartoon shows what the perception was at that time.

The similarity I am pointing out is between our perception of the situation now, and the perception of the situation then.

[annabanana]

28. just because we hadn't been confronted with what we are seeing now..

The gaslighting is a dangerous new wrinkle, for one thing...

[Xipe Totec]

123. The point is, and it's important that we realize this, is that we always assume perfect knowledge

If you transport yourself to that time, knowing only what they knew then, you would see that situation exactly as we see it now; as the bleakest possible world.

One can argue, that this is much worse. Perhaps correctly. But one has to imagine a future, far more dire than this at a latter date, when we will look back at this moment and laugh at how overly dramatic we were then (and by then I mean now).

[Cary]

32. Did Cheney operate within norms?

Lying us into war so we could steal oil? Torture?

[Sunny05]

46. Good Q

And there was another pres as kng who may not have known real end game. I am of the opinion this is worse. Too many more Cheneys and other evil types in picture, some of whom is putin.

[hibbing]

37. The swing left is what used to be moderate

It rarely swings as far left as it does right, at least that's my perspective. These fascists would be appalled by some of the actions Reagan took.


Peace

[Paladin]

22. Actually, we've NEVER been here before. And it's damn sure time to worry.

We've got a madman in the White House, and he's busily shoving this country off a cliff, right into all-to-real fascism. It's really happening, it's no illusion, and nobody's preventing it from happening. If you're not worried and preparing for the worst, you're not paying attention.

[Xipe Totec]

24. Spare me. nt

[Paladin]

30. I stand by my prior comments.

I'd rather over-react to the current situation, than be fatally naïve.

[Xipe Totec]

34. Your pompous pontification is tiresome, Paladin. Truly. nt

[Paladin]

35. Deal with it or put me on full ignore. I stand by my prior comments. (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. Can I split the difference between you two folks and I will elaborate if you both want ?

[Paladin]

71. Please feel free to voice your opinions on this, DSB. Thanks. (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. Your interlocutor is accusing you of being melodramatic.

There has been a debate over whether Donald Trump represents the apotheosis of GOP politics or a radical departure. One can point to the fact that so many Republicans have fallen behind him that he must represent the apotheosis. On the other hand all his Republican predecessors have at least paid lip service to pluralism, democratic norms, and the rule of law.

I believe Donald Trump represents a radical departure from the rough consensus we have forged over our two hundred fifty or so year experiment in self governance. He represents those who want to be ruled, not governed.

And now the GOP holds all the levers of government. Reagan had to contend with a Democratic House for all of his tenure and a Democratic Senate for some of it.

Checks and balances fail to work when one party holds all the levels of government. When I was in grad school in the eighties we used to talk about centrifugal forces. They are more powerful than ever now. Many Americans want nothing to do with their fellow Americans. The only thing that is preventing dissolution is force.

I am a liberal democrat before I am a Liberal Democrat. I really believed America, despite all its flaws, was special. I no longer believe that.

[Paladin]

81. Very well said.

Many thanks---from one Liberal Democrat to another.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

83. I was a college student during the Reagan years. I hated his politics....

I was a college student during the Reagan years. I hated his politics. But he wasn't scary like Trump.

[Paladin]

84. No he wasn't. Not by a mile. (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. Intimidating people wasn't part of his personality. He wasn't a bully.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028534028

[Xipe Totec]

125. Thank you for your kind offer, but it won't be necessary

The other person and I have had a mutual dislike that goes back a long way. Somehow, he must have aged out of my ignore list, but I've now corrected that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

127. The irony is a lot of folks with whom I had beefs with in the past are now my compadres

The irony is a lot of folks with whom I had beefs with in the past are now kindred spirits in our mutual loathing of Trump. A few are still sadly re-litigating the primaries. I avoided 2016 Post Mortem like a plague. I think I made a grand total of five post election posts.

Trump is really a hateful guy.

I think of the movie Glory. A lot of the border state Union troops were as bad as the Rebs when it came to the freedman but they were united with the northern troops in their desire to preserve the union.

Sad such a grand union produced Trump.

[Xipe Totec]

128. He is (Trump) a hateful guy

And I do sincerely loathe him.

But I do not think liberals will be hunted out of existence like Bloom County was predicting. Liberalism is part of the human psyche, just like conservatism is. They are ying and yang, and one cannot be destroyed any more than the other.

We will be in eternal combat, but consider this:

If conservatism had the upper hand in this fight, we would still be hunting game with rocks and sticks.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

129. The irony is all the gains liberals made conservatives act like they were for them all along.

I remember reading an article by William Buckley where he mused whether in fifty years hence folks will have seen the Catholic Church's opposition to gay rights as quaint as their opposition to dancing centuries ago.

[Xipe Totec]

130. Let them think whatever they want

So long as humanity progresses.

If they want to take credit after the fact, let them have the credit.

It's progress we want, not credit.

[Sunny05]

57. Well, then, Paladin's

pompous pontification is our pompous pontification. I know many who feel this way, even if they haven't mapped out whole big picture like this thread has.

[Sunny05]

47. I'm with you.

This situation is too bizarre and has to many danger signs.

[GliderGuider]

49. Yes, I think you should stand by them.

The West is screwed.

[Sunny05]

55. Yep. nt

[Bradical79]

122. We actually haven't -nt

[Xipe Totec]

126. Matter of opinion. -nt

[mountain grammy]

10. I don't think it's over the top at all.

In fact, I'm glad to see this here and so well said.. the assassinations in the 60's? They thought that would finish us all off.. guess what, we're still here, but I expect any kind of real leadership to be put down quickly..
Dangerous times we're living.

[Tanuki]

11. Rwanda

There is a survivor of the Rwanda genocide who attends my local Amnesty International chapter meetings, and although he always considered the United States to be a beacon of freedom and democracy, he is alarmed by what he is seeing here.

[Delphinus]

119. Thanks for sharing that.

I have a friend who lived in Germany during the time of the Nazis and is alarmed (not a strong enough word, but it will work) too.

[Useless in FL]

13. You are right!

I'm in total agreement with your assessment. The fact that this administration is openly presenting "alternate facts" is frightening ... this is not longer a conspiracy theory We are moving into a "1984" era for sure.

[RKP5637]

33. Exactly! The spreading of alternative facts, falsehoods, lies and propaganda to destabilize the

population to spread mistrust and to bond against the evil ones, Hitler type tactics, similar to any dictator. It's very chilling and my greatest fear is many Americans are too naive for many reasons to see/understand/comprehend what is going on.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. tRump and the RepubliCons majority are greatly over-reaching. They will thus fall harder.

Their failure will point out how bad hard right and alt-right and ultra-cons policies are.

Just like Ultra-Cons Kansas (Consas) is failing.

When tRump & Republican supporters realize that voting for rights for billionaires leads to removal of their rights and their supports they will turn and vote them out of office.

Attention needs to be put on ending gerrymandering and ending voter suppression.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

41. I think you are right.

Look at all the protests and push back against Trump we've had so far and he hasn't even been president for a week yet. People are already responding in ways that show they disagree and do not support what he has been up to so far.

[world wide wally]

52. Two problems with that.

The next election is a very long time from now and they will be working on more and more sophisticated methods of voter suppression.
At the rate things are going we may not even have a right to vote again. Look at the carnage in just the first four days, and Republicans are looking at more protections for our mentally challenged leader.
I'm s a little too late for the vote.

[Ligyron]

82. I'm concerned that Trump now calls for an investigation of the election.

Unless we are careful, the "results" they manufacture will be the excuse for more anti-liberal voting laws and voter suppression.

[GliderGuider]

112. I think that's the goal.

The D/P/B axis is working hard to makes the last election "The Last Election". I suspect this investigation is one of the tools.

[Delphinus]

120. My thought too!

The manipulation is scary.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

94. There are elections frequently. Important elections.

State elections are important. We need to get districting out of the hands of state legislatures and into independent commissions. California did this.

Other elections are important for keeping the pipeline full of progressive liberal Democrats.

Municipal elections elect mayors and councils who can stand up to overbearing state and federal governments. See for example San Francisco declaring itself forever a sanctuary city in the face of tRump.

[barbtries]

19. you may be absolutely right.

BUT: there are more of us. my plan: RESIST to the end. I have children and grandchildren, and their future matters. fired up, ready to go.

[Vinca]

23. My husband is also a Canadian . . . and I've never been more grateful for that.

They might have to build a wall to keep us in.

[SticksnStones]

29. It's like there's this global economic Darwinism going on...

Like a separating of the wheat from the chaff...the haves from the needs, the winners from the losers...all done with a kind of twisted certainty that it makes a country great to cease carrying all that extra dead weight.

And the lack of humanity in their missive is counterbalanced by their affirmation of the church. Let the church take care of the poor and the needy. Problem solved.

It's bone chilling.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

39. Conservatives will only cause Liberalism to become more popular by trying to eliminate it

because they will reveal how diabolical they are in the process of trying to do so.

[padfun]

43. Actually, I think you are right.

I've thought very similar thoughts over the last two decades and now this is the point of no return.
There is a battle of control in the "powers that be" and I think the liberal wing has lost that power.

Hang on for a rough ride.

[GliderGuider]

48. Steve Bannon Told Me He Was 'A Leninist' Who Wants To Destroy the State

Steve Bannon, Trump's Top Guy, Told Me He Was 'A Leninist' Who Wants To ‘Destroy the State’

I met Steve Bannon—the executive director of Breitbart.com who’s now become the chief executive of the Trump campaign, replacing the newly resigned Paul Manafort—at a book party held in his Capitol Hill townhouse on Nov. 12, 2013. We were standing next to a picture of his daughter, a West Point graduate, who at the time was a lieutenant in the 101 Airborne Division serving in Iraq. The picture was notable because she was sitting on what was once Saddam Hussein’s gold throne with a machine gun on her lap. “I’m very proud of her,” Bannon said.

Then we had a long talk about his approach to politics. He never called himself a “populist” or an “American nationalist,” as so many think of him today. “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant. “Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties, as well as the traditional conservative press.

Trump’s decision to take on Bannon indicates that he wants to wage his campaign along the lines laid down by him—that of destroying the Republican leadership and the Party as we know it. Trump’s behavior thus far has been compatible with Bannon’s belief in Leninist tactics. As the Bolshevik leader once said, “The art of any propagandist and agitator consists in his ability to find the best means of influencing any given audience, by presenting a definite truth, in such a way as to make it most convincing, most easy to digest, most graphic, and most strongly impressive.”

This is why I put Bannon in what I call the "Dugin/Putin/Bannon axis".

If he has his way, the Republicans and Trump supporters are going to end up caught in their own crossfire. Bannon wants to burn it ALL down.

[GliderGuider]

113. The Bannon article was down, now it's back. nt

[GliderGuider]

51. The impeachment door is no longer an escape route because of Pence.

If Trump is impeached or taken out by other means, the game goes on under Pence.

The bag America is in looks like it's water-tight. I've never seen, or even imagined, a setup this diabolical.

[Sunny05]

63. Exactly.

So, just to complete picture a little more, how does paul ryan figure in to this? priebus?

Are they just other mid-level chess pieces?
Are they trying to hang on to their own power, wrestle this away from b/p/d?
Are they joining forces w/ b/p/d?
Other?

I'm totally with you on what you have shared in this thread. I am now just trying to put together the rest of the chess game players and strategies.

Thanks.

[GliderGuider]

93. Ryan and Priebus look like mid-level players from where I sit. Rooks.

Except that Ryan is in line for the throne if both Trump and Pence are taken out of the game. Ryan is probably not as malleable or suborned as the two ahead of him. I have no idea what happens in that case.

[Sunny05]

96. Ahhhh.

That gels w/ all that has been said here, all observed over last several months, all that is marinating in my head.

So ... other things I wonder ... and if you have thoughts on them, please share ...

I wonder if bannon is thinking that he is using putin (surely, if he wants to destroy state?). Or if he is really "in" w/ putin.

Regardless, I would think putin is undoubtedly using bannon and that, if push came to shove, putin would get his way, "win" (whatever he wants), in the end -- over bannon (and trump, etc.), at least.

From previous point, I go on to wonder at what stage of chess game this would happen. That is, if bannon reaches the point of winning power struggles over ryan, Dems, etc., here in U.S., would that be the time when a bannon-putin power struggle would happen (if it happens). Or I suppose it could happen sooner; things coukd easily go negative w/ any one or two of the b/p/d triad.

In all of above items, am wondering if should name dugin with every mention of putin. Or if dugin would align w/ whoever is winning the chess game (which I am guessing would be putin).

And finally, yes, I recall the OP was about chess game or power struggle between bannon/dugin/putin and liberal west (or U.S. as we know it). But am just guessing that -- or asking whether -- the struggle will shift OR a new struggle will be added -- one between bannon (already here in U.S., wanting his own power, his own way) and putin (and probably dugin w/ putin).

[GliderGuider]

99. My thought at the moment is that Bannon and Putin are cooperating.

I would say that if my thesis is correct, there will be no power struggle between them. As long as the USA is being torn asunder, they will both be satisfied. Bannon only wanted power as a means to that end. He now has the power, and his goals coincide with Putin's.

But hell, the smokescreens are so thick we can't see more that the dim outline of the real action. My OP is intended mostly to get people thinking about the possibilities in terms a bit broader than simplistic national politics, and what a nasty piece of work Trump is.

[Sunny05]

101. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. I follow you. Indeed, great OP in purpose and content.

And yes, knew you meant bannon/putin/dugin on same team now. Just started wondering where this could all go. And your thoughts on Bannon -- he wants U.S. brought down, does not necessarily have power per se as end goal. But, again, you are not meaning to go further than what you stated in OP.

Shoot ... find myself wondering about kushner ... if he is clueless like djt or is not clueless but attempting to protect djt (and family interests) or .... I know, I know, I'm going beyond the OP!

[GliderGuider]

105. Yeah, Kushner is an unknown quantity for me at the moment..

He may just be a callow youth who is playing the game because he likes power. He doesn't strike me as someone who would have the chops to be admitted to the inner circle. But I have no insight there.

[Sunny05]

108. Okay. Thanks! nt

[uponit7771]

142. +1

[dlk]

53. Republicans Have Been Behaving Like Fascist Bullies and Getting Away With It

Let's hope the election of the madman Trump will be a wake-up call for too many Americans who have been lulled into complacency by believing "it can't happen here." It can and we're in the process of seeing it happen.

[cilla4progress]

58. What are their goals?

You are saying this is a transnationalist fascist movement? How does that merge with nationalism, closed borders?

Trump is fomenting instability so we will look to him as a strongman.

Our democracy has never been more threatened.

Next he will be imprisoning his political enemies.

Obama may want to stay in the V.I.

[GliderGuider]

64. How does that merge with nationalism

It doesn't. As far as I can tell, nationalism and populism are nothing but gaslighting and smokescreens.

The goal is apparently to utterly destroy Western states for ideological reasons. That's all.

[wordpix]

134. Pres. O is

still in DC on standby, I hope

[world wide wally]

60. We need an American hero, and we seem to be in short supply of them.

We need a formidable politician or even military leader who truly cares about what America and our Constitution REALLY stand for and who stands up for it. Then we all need to have that hero's back.
Sound too much like a movie or novel?
It is.
American heroes have gone the way of the dinosaur.

[joshcryer]

61. I've been talking about Dugin for years now.

Trump is the puppet which will bring it all to fruition.

Read this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028303221

[GliderGuider]

66. You were spot on. nt

[joshcryer]

70. It's amazing really.

Not to be right, it's kinda obvious when you read about it (first read about Dugin when Ukraine was being bullied), but it's amazing that this is happening.

Again.

Have we not learned anything as a species?

[Sunny05]

68. will do ... nt

[herding cats]

92. You've been paying attention.

Russia has also been meddling in Latin America. Which will only become worse now that the US has taken the turn it has.

An article touching on some of this: http://www.businessinsider.com/its-time-to-start-worrying-about-what-russias-been-up-to-in-latin-america-2015-3

Dugin's geopolitical plans are terrifying, and they're being achieved.

[Yavin4]

73. What do they want? The future.

They want to create a new royal class based on pure money and power. A class that cannot be tempered with by democratic rule, constitutional government, laws, or anything else. This scions of this class would be allowed to rule over you.

You want to start a business? You need to ask this class for permission. Not just the money, but permission. This class could be benevolent or malevolent. They don't have to follow any laws or bend their will to your morals or standards.

That's what they're after. Complete dominance of the earth in perpetuity.

[AlexSFCA]

75. back

I turned off DU a few weeks ago when I was dissapointed in its direction, not even here anyone truly understood what's going on. FINALLY! Someone else sees it! It is so much easier to see from abroad I guess.

Times are going to get MUCH worse.This is the most ideological administration and they will do anything to destroy liberal democratic values and will 'help' other liberal democratic countries - France next. They want to set an example for others to follow - say goodbye to EU, it will be gone as we know it in a few years.
I live in California and you think we are immune? You could not be more wrong. The administration is going to go HARD against our state. We are about to witness a very brutal gubernatorial election in 2018. They are using gays for now to turn against muslims but they'll get to us with 'religious freedom' act soon followed by dissolution of marriage equality with two justices appointed by trump.

The democratic supermajority in CA is enormous responsibility. Be vigilnant, the war is coming to California. Trump has unlimited power because his administration will supply any "facts" they need in order to complete their mission. We can never achieve anything if can't even understand or beleive even (cause it sounds crazy to some) what is truly happenig and about to get much much worse quickly.

Expect massive ICE raids coming soon. this will be the beginning of violent social unrest which is necessary to elect 'law & order' candidate.California has open primaries so for all I know they may plant an 'independent' candidate.

I recently got polled by a polling company. While it can be some opposition reseach, who knows, but the questions were very clever. The main focus was on how likely am I to change my democratic registration to republican kowing the following issues...

I have to say as a liberal democrat, the issues they raised have broad appeal and could even fool me if the independent candidate shows up. Big focus on government employee pensions, law & order but also 'religous freedom'. Next thing I read on the news that Peter Thiel is either considering a run or will be involved in the battle.

[riverbendviewgal]

77. I left America in 1969

Became a Canadian in 1993. I am not dual citizen. I relinquished my US citizenship when I became Canadian.. No regrets. I find Canada is very democratic with the social health care that most of the world has. It is a kind and caring country with clean water and lots land. Go north where it is cheaper.

We need doctors in the north. I live 300 miles north of Toronto in a small town, with a hospital. I call my town the tiny apple. I can walk to everything i need. Toronto is the little apple. I grew up living near the Big Apple, which I loved. I lived and worked in and around Toronto until I moved north when I retired. I go often to visit the little apple. Toronto is a fantastic city.

For those of you who want your children to be educated with real facts, move to Canada, if you can. If things get worse you may even be eligible to apply for refugee status.

[Docreed2003]

138. Our family has discussed it...

As a physician, I'm certain we could make the move. As a veteran, that's a prospect I never thought I'd ever in my life be forced to consider.

[riverbendviewgal]

143. Do your research

Where you may feel comfortable in Canada. Visit the area/areas. Perhaps buy a property. Look at all the pros and cons. Keep in mind the US still taxes you while living outside the country. (FATCA). it was easier for me as my husband and I came with only $200 and 2 suitcases of clothes. We were accepted as refugees. There was no Cdn govt assistance then like refugees now have. I was pregnant with our first child at the time. We got private medical insurance until the basic govt health kicked in months later. We were not professionals but our life was good here. We had another son 4 years later. My husband and our younger son were diagnosed with cancer 2 months apart in 1998. Our son died of brain cancer and my husband of Non Hodgkins lymphoma. We did not have any debt due to their illnesses.
I love Canada. It suits my ideology, a country government that is kind and just. I like my Prime Minister. I vote Liberal/ NDP. Our Conservatives are like Republics but more central left.

[tparrett62]

80. Goldstein's Book

I've read and re-read "1984" dozens of times, and it seems like they're taking their moves right out of the book O'Brien gives to Winston. Too much to post here, but it does seem like they're making a concerted effort to "freeze" the "high", "middle", and "low" right where they are now.

A passage that sticks out to me regarding Trump's behavior, and why he is such a bully...
=======

O'Brien: 'How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?'

Winston thought. 'By making him suffer,' he said.

'Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined."
========

Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation- Trump's MO.

[Ligyron]

86. In this scenario, what happens to the vast majority of the population?

In the olden times serfs or slaves were needed to do all the work required by a society.

Machines are doing a lot of the jobs the average Joe did back then and this situation will get worse.

A lot of people are going to be superfluous and just an expensive drag on their plans for the society they would build.

How will they be eliminated one wonders? The overpopulation is at odds with their tools objection to birth control and abortion.

One step at a time I guess.

[Maven]

88. I think you're right. And we should all have a Plan B ready for when things become untenable.

By Plan B, I mean a "GTFOH fast" plan.

[nini]

89. This has been going on since Reagan

We're just at the end result now.

[MountCleaners]

90. Of course it's a war on liberalism

Trump has made it clear that he is going to do whatever his racist base wants him to do. And they want something done about liberals. Particularly liberals in cities and in government agencies.

Fact is, Republicans can't get elected without large numbers of racists and anti-government types. Those types turned on and ridiculed every other Republican candidate. Dissent is not allowed anymore in what used to be the "conservative" base. They have turned nationalist and are most angry about "liberals" or government.

If you want to know what Trump's plans are, he's practically getting them from the Heritage Foundation's web site.

[GliderGuider]

91. And the Heritage Foundation is getting them from overseas.

We have to start looking beyond the figurehead of Trump. He's being moved around the board by others.

[GliderGuider]

97. What is the end-game?

I believe the goal of this exercise is the total annihilation of Western liberalism and all the nations that harbour it, leaving the Eurasian axis standing astride the world.

Make no mistake, this is World War III. Steve Bannon is now the leader of a "fifth column" of subversives fighting for the enemy inside our ranks.

[Generator]

98. Well I'm paying attention

If I have to go to the other side of the earth I will. I am not going to die for Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. Or maybe I will. It depends on what happens. Maybe dying for freedom is not a bad thing or maybe I'm not sure I want to die for idiots. I have done a lot of thinking on this. Who am I voting for? Why am I voting? Can I help or save people that don't care or see their own undoing?

I'm not giving it long. Maybe 2 years and then decisions will be made. Even this Christmas every year I look at my live tree that I sacrificed for the greenery and could not imagine where we will be in December 2017. I just don't know anything for certain anymore.

But what is happening now is not sustainable. Freaking middle of the road Josh Marshall tweeted that today. It's not going to hold.

[AlexSFCA]

100. What can be done?

Last edited Wed Jan 25, 2017, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Why so few people are aware of what's truly happenning?
I know of no politician actively speaking out about it and educating the public.
And with this knowledge what can be done? It seems the more we resist, the more powerful trump becomes.
Kasparov is right - winter is coming.
You can now forget about fair elections, trump has federal investigators so he can get any results he wants in 2018 with the new CIA by his side.
Somebody mentioned there is hope, e.g. NC gubernatorial election. But that was before trump became president. As I said previously, trump admin will have virtually unlimited power using their own 'facts' to justify anything.

[JustAnotherGen]

103. I've made this point in the months

Leading up to the election:

This is the beginning of a moral cleansing. It is being energized by right-wing talk (hate) radio - which carries very disturbing echoes of Rwanda

Thank you. The constant onslaught of media pushing the dehumanization of 'liberals' and all of the other derogatory names for us - is eerily like the Rwanda airwaves the world refused to jam.

[GliderGuider]

107. Was it you I got that realization from? If so, THANK YOU!!!

Rwanda was what made the penny drop for me about what was really going on here. This view behind the curtain is totally fucking terrifying.

[TrishaJ]

114. I agree with you and I see it as

a Western Judeo-Christian white supremacy movement and includes Russia.

[many a good man]

115. Global alliance forming against muti-ethnic, multi-cultural Liberal Democracies

Dugin and his fellow philosophers are very clear about this. They want the world carved up into separate land masses where each is ruled by its "rightful owner," whichever race or religion dominates there. They get to run their own domain (none of this post-Westphalian nation-state crap) and need to be as pure as possible. Foreigners and outsiders dilute the purity and power and will have no rights.

In order to get there they must destroy Atlanticism and Liberal Democracy. The goal can be an illiberal democratic state or whatever form best suits the ruling group in each land mass. They need to destroy the Western Alliance, NATO the EU and all international human rights groups. They need to weaken the United States and unseat it from its position as the dominant world power.

Each will respect the other's sphere of influence. They will open the sea lanes and allow necessary trade but otherwise will not mingle. Russia will rule Eurasia, the Chinese will rule Asia, whites Europe and North America. Muslims can rule the Middle East and Africans can even rule their own continent if they can find someone strong enough. They are expected to impose the dominant group's religion (if they want) and cultural values over their own areas but not anywhere else.

Dugin's long term strategy was greatly accelerated with the global financial crisis, the current refugee crisis, Brexit, and election of Trump. Nationalist Parties are surging in Europe and working in common cause, including with Americans like Bannon. Conservatives in the US have complete control of the federal government and most states.

Republicans are aware of the shifting demographics that will block them ever winning a national election again yet they refuse to reach out to minorities. They know their time is now or never so they are doing their hardest to roll back the past 100 years of progress. It will require intimidation and suppression of civil rights and the vote as much as possible to prevent fair midterm elections.

Expect a blitzkrieg of legislation and executive orders. Look for the "nuclear option" getting executed on the Senate filibuster for SCOTUS nominations. Most Republicans are not Duginists but their interests coincide. The next two years are going to be crucial so please organize and resist.

[GliderGuider]

116. Someone who reads.

That's a good summary of where we're at with the Duginists. I hope we get those two years.

[workinclasszero]

140. Sounds like ethnic cleansing to me

"They want the world carved up into separate land masses where each is ruled by its "rightful owner," whichever race or religion dominates there. They get to run their own domain (none of this post-Westphalian nation-state crap) and need to be as pure as possible. Foreigners and outsiders dilute the purity and power and will have no rights."

[GliderGuider]

118. Apparently even Glenn fucking Beck has Bannon figured out.

From a Newsmax article from last August:

Conservative talk radio host Glenn Beck has described Steve Bannon, Donald Trump's new campaign CEO, as "a horrible, despicable human being."

He elaborated on that Wednesday on MSNBC's "The Last Word," telling host Lawrence O'Donnell that Bannon, head of Brietbart News, describes himself as a Leninist.

"He is not a Marxist," Beck said. "He doesn't believe in Marxism or socialism or communism or anything else. What he means by that, and he has explained it, is that he is a destroyer of everything. He believes that Lenin was right the way he went in, destroyed the system, destroyed the Duma, brought down the parties, and then punished his enemies."

Beck told O'Donnell he was appearing on his show because "I am gravely concerned about the direction of the country, and it is very important for conservatives or constitutionalists to stand up and let the left know, 'Hey guys, we're not all like that.'"

'This is why Alexander Dugin loves this guy," Beck said. "He runs the chaos party over in Russia. He's a dangerous man, dangerous."

Google "Dugin Bannon" and read your little heart out.

[wordpix]

135. that explains why Trump listens to Bannon

They're bros in destruction

[TrekLuver]

121. FUCK THEM...we ain't going back. Obviously there are setbacks..some worse than others *cough cough*

[EarthFirst]

124. They know where to find me...

Resist.

[C_U_L8R]

136. Their big strategic error

Is believing that Liberals won't fight back.
They may be in for a surprise.

(Just ask every tyrant and fascist in history who came up against us)

[Hamlette]

137. Rwanda? Seriously? Get a grip.

we are all going to get outrage fatigue if we don't settle down and take positive action instead of getting hysterical.

[GliderGuider]

141. It's only been 6 days. It takes time to process the shock.

The enormity of the situation America is in, especially when you factor is the availability of weapons and the ubiquity of hate radio, invites the Rwanda comparison.

[akbacchus_BC]

139. I am Canadian too. Americans have faced this shit before, but not in this enormity!

I believe that they will fight this asshole and win, might take four years unless the dipshit gets impeached. Americans are resilient and I hope this trump era will be over soon.

[GliderGuider]

144. To be plain about this, Steve Bannon is Putin's asset in the WH

I mean that literally. I think Bannon is the point man for executing a Russian disruption operation in the USA. He agrees with Dugin's goals and methods, and his current actions fully support this interpretation.

There are undoubtedly more of them in stategic positions throughout the administration. It's a nest of vipers.