No one should be "delighted" to work with DT on any issue, no matter

[pnwmom]

how much the person might agree on that issue.

And no one should ever express that delight publicly because it only feeds into DT's publicity machine.

Would you be "delighted" to work, unarmed, in a swamp with a crocodile? Would you think you could influence him by smiling and acting friendly?

Anyone who thinks s/he supports a position of DT's needs to put aside his "delight" and work very thoughtfully, cautiously, and suspiciously.

Never let the narcissist's charms and temptations draw you into behaving as an ally. You can agree to agree on certain issues without being an ally.

[Ubermensch777]

1. Agreed

That is so true, why should anyone want to work with "someone" who is at war with both reality and the people who he will be making miserable?

[sheshe2]

3. +1000

[bettyellen]

4. Disturbing to see anyone ignore the huge damage he is doing.

[joshcryer]

5. Especially when said "issue" was canned months ago.

This is taking the wind out of the progressive movement simply by normalizing Trump's actions.

[JCanete]

10. No. Behaving principled and non-partisan when it comes to standing by the ISSUES rather than

doing what the GOP did for the last 8 years, is what we should do. It distinguishes us as the adults in the room without ceding a fucking inch to his bad rhetoric and bad policies. The reactions here are totally ridiculous. As much as you or anybody else wants it to be, this is not a trend towards normalizing Trump, and it is not some example of selling out the Democratic Party. I assure you, there will be remarkably few things that we will be able to agree with Trump on(though more will almost certainly happen with the blue dogs and middle Dems than with Sanders), but there is no harm in distinguishing ourselves as the adults in the room by saying "in that one instance where Trump is doing something right...I will work with him."

[BlueCaliDem]

19. Like the average American voter cares. Jeezus. You can't play by the rules while your opponent

cheats and steals with impunity. Fuck acting like the adults in the room. Even in action movies, if our hero keeps playing nice while being clobbered, you just wanna slap him upside his head and kick his butt into the fighting rink.

As they say, you don't bring a knife (or a daisy) to a gunfight, and Republicans know that politics is all about bloody fights.

So excuse me when I tell you that your opinion on how Democrats should act is seriously off, especially after EIGHT FUCKING YEARS of Republican obstructionism of President Obama.

They drew first blood, JCanete. Time for you and others who wanna play nice with Republicans to realize that or Democrats will never, ever win power again.

[JCanete]

22. what? You totally misinterpreted what I said. We should fight where we disagree. To say Sanders

should fight Trump where he agrees with him is just weird. It doesn't make any sense. I didn't want Clinton or Obama in 08 BECAUSE I didn't think they were going to fight Republicans.The only one saying what we're saying now, was Edwards, which is the single reason I was for him. Obama and Clinton talked about being conciliatory. When Obama actually tried to be, I admit I was hopeful, because I thought his public charisma might actually shame the Republicans into a corner, but that was a miscalculation, given the realities of gerrymandering and corporate media.

I am all for us playing dirty when it comes to obstructing Trump on things we don't want, which is just about everything, although we're almost entirely powerless to do so within congress. But we should refuse to seat a Supreme Court justice for the next 4 years if it comes to it.

[Dustlawyer]

50. It's hard not to take the bait, but we shouldn't.

This is an end around the not to criticize rules. They would rather divide than achieve anything.

[BlueCaliDem]

121. No. We should give Republicans a taste of their own obstructionism medicine. Period. Even the bills

they agreed on in the past were obstructed when President Obama pushed for them.

We'll survive 4 years of Trumputin under President Obama and Democratic policies as long as we don't capitulate. But each and every Democrat - and those who claim to be Democrats but are not in the Party of - should give Republicans a taste of their own medicine that they've been dishing President Obama for eight fucking years.

There's a time to conciliatory, and a time to be recalcitrant. Republicans have shown us that the time to be recalcitrant is now.

[Cha]

84. Thank you, BlueCaliDem!

"So excuse me when I tell you that your opinion on how Democrats should act is seriously off, especially after EIGHT FUCKING YEARS of Republican obstructionism of President Obama."

[BlueCaliDem]

123. You're welcome, Cha. It needed to be said. Oh how some of us so quickly forget the extreme

partisanship on the Republican side when President Obama was inaugurated, and how difficult they made it for us and him all throughout. They even refused to hold hearings for President Obama's pick for the Supreme Court who was a man they were all swooning not a year before!

Now some are calling for working with this illegitimate White House occupant because Sanders says he will on things he agrees with, so now it's a-ok?

I just can't wrap my head around that. How can they have already forgotten?? Shameful.

Republicans drew first blood. Either we take on the challenge and give as good as we got, or Democrats will forever be seen as spineless capitulators. In this country, strength is admired, not capitulation.

[Cha]

133. It would help normalize trump who uses the slightest toe hold

to point to.. see such and such wants to work with me.. and then they'll turn around and stab them in the back.

They used MLK III to give them cover.. wish he wouldn't have given blotus cover like that.

And, it's not just that they vowed not to work with President Obama on DAY ONE.. trump is a fucking psycho.. anybody can see that who is not brainwashed by him.

[BlueCaliDem]

135. Heheheh...'blotus'. Perfect nickname for that bloviating p.o.s.!

Yes, he's a fucking psycho, and if they don't give two shits that Republicans have obstructed President Obama for eight years - or even agree with the GOP on that regard - at least don't support a sociopathic wannabe dictator! Don't make things worse!

Working with 'blotus' will require wheeling and dealing and chipping at everything good that President Obama has done for us these past years. No. No "working with" because they're not going to get everything they want and blotus will still win by chipping away at President Obama's legacy.

Obstructionism is the only and safest bet Democrats and Democratic allies should take for the next four years.

[tecelote]

20. +1!

[pnwmom]

37. It isn't necessary to express "delight" about working with the Minotaur.

Working with him on particular issues may be okay; giving DT free accolades for pro-worker policies he is extremely unlikely to carry out is WRONG.

[JCanete]

61. he didn't. he said IF, and that really was the important caveat you are intentionally missing. nt

[pnwmom]

62. The "if" implies that it's possible DT will change -- and it normalizes him.

He will not change. He's going to remain a monster who can't be trusted.

[JCanete]

63. no. you infer that. It does not imply that. Again, from the mouth of a person who calls Trump a

pathological liar, this is hardly a vote of confidence that Trump will come through on these things.

[pnwmom]

74. I said that the "if" implies that it is possible -- not probable.

I don't see how there is a logical argument against that.

[uponit7771]

91. THANK YOU !

[joshcryer]

80. Worker "policies" he's using as propaganda.

Words vs actions.

Let's see the actions before showing "delight."

The actions are going to be far different from what is claimed.

Except, somehow, a Democrat actually acts, like getting more people on health care, and it's bemoaned and shit upon, but a Republican speaks, as if they are for something good, and it is believed.

It's like how Ken Buck (Colorado congressman) lied about his stance on abortion, pretended he was pro woman, and somehow he won that race even though the guy literally said it was wrong even in the case of rape and incest.

[JCanete]

92. You're making shit up though. Sanders said "IF" Trump does this, he would be delighted to

work with him. There is no assumption there that he actually will do this. From my perspective it comes off as a taunt..

He doesn't expect him to do it, and like Sanders already has been ever single day(as if you don't know this), you can expect him to take Trump to task every time he fails to live up to those few flakes of gold in his shit pile of rhetoric.

[dionysus]

127. Its like talking to a brick wall. It's clear now that ppl are fucking obsessed

with bernie, pouring over every single damn word just looking for ANYTHING to be outraged about!

"I'll be delighted to work with him if he's not fucking with the middle class" isn't glowing praise.

Anyone finding fault with this isn't just nitpicking, they have a huge axe to grind!

[KPN]

156. EXACTLY!!! Thank You for pointing out what should be obvious.

These people have no objectivity when it comes to Bernie.

[Gothmog]

94. Trump and Sanders are giving China a gift

The main purpose of the TPP is to limit the power of China in the region. Trump is giving China a gift here

[pnwmom]

165. Yes, he is. And he wants our environment to descend to China's level. n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

164. Oh for fucks sake. You know when they say "my good friend across the isle"?

Or my "esteemed colleague"?

That's bullshiit. I hate to break it to you.

That doesn't mean they are going to be swapping spit in the showers.

Besides, have you ever known Bernie to be "delighted" about anything? Love the guy but he has the disposition of my dad having a gout attack.

Some people need to come down out of the Philippine Mountains and lay down their weapons. The primary war is over.

[WePurrsevere]

168. I totally agree. It's bullshit that's been...

covered in flowers to give the illusion to the public that a relationship is a rose garden, not an over ripe manure storage pond on a hot Summer day.

After all these years of watching politicians (and performers) do it I just shrug it off as SSDD.

[MountCleaners]

60. I agree!

This will remind people of who really has opposed bad trade agreements and who has been truly pro-labor and pro-jobs. And most of Trump's friends on the right don't agree. They probably want to get rid of him ASAP.

[Gothmog]

73. Sadners is backing up trump

[R B Garr]

90. Wow, this after he is my-way-or-the -highway with

Democrats. Wow.

[JCanete]

101. Thanks for chiming in. nt

[Gothmog]

110. So Trump and Sanders want to make China stronger

I am amused that trump and Sanders agree that China needs to be stronger http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/23/politics/trump-tpp-things-to-know/index.html

But already, Chinese leaders are angling to take the United States' place and expand the country's influence in the region.

"We must remain committed to promoting free trade and investment through opening up and say no to protectionism," Chinese President Xi Jinping said in a speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos last week.

Obama had pitched the TPP as a way to counter China's growing influence by imposing US-backed labor, environmental and patent protections. China is unlikely to seek or support such protections in its own trade negotiations -- allowing those countries to produce cheaper goods, but with fewer worker protections.

The 11 remaining TPP nations are now set to regroup. Trade ministers from those nations say they intend to press forward with the deal -- but the United States' withdrawal could mean a major rewrite, or an opening for another global superpower to pursue an alternative agreemen

Sanders and Trump agree that China needs to be stronger.

[dionysus]

130. Thats a load of shit, and you know it. A year ago DU was all against the TTP,

Until hillary was for it. Now that twitler is against it, the TTP is *totally* teh awesome...

[joshcryer]

76. I assure you that what comes up with will be 100x worse than TPP.

To believe he did anything that helps workers is absolutely asinine.

What's utterly baffling is how a Republican can make a false, absolutely propagandist measure, and it is seen as sacrosanct, somehow, some way. Especially coming from a narcissistic demagogue like Trump.

It's mind boggling how we are so easily fooled.

[JCanete]

93. Well who is believing this though? That's your narrative and it is hogwash. It isn't meted out

in the facts as to the nature of Sander's statements. Of course Trump has worse things in store, but show me where Sanders doesn't know it.

I get the impression that people here want to hear what they want to hear. You already have your mind made up, so everything corroborates it. You distrust and dislike Sanders so this is the nonsense you hear, but its not really there...sorry.

[sheshe2]

141. Tell me why Sanders thinks he can work with tRump on pro worker policies..

When tRump starts off on day one freezing jobs and salaries of federal workers...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/23/trump-freezes-federal-hiring/?utm_term=.ff31ee34e7b2

Federal labor leaders were ready when President Trump froze government hiring Monday. It was a campaign promise they criticized before the election and did so again shortly after he made good on the pledge.

“President Trump’s action will disrupt government programs and services that benefit everyone and actually increase taxpayer costs by forcing agencies to hire more expensive contractors to do work that civilian government employees are already doing for far less,” said American Federation of Government Employees President J. David Cox Sr. “This hiring freeze will mean longer lines at Social Security offices, fewer workplace safety inspections, less oversight of environmental polluters, and greater risk to our nation’s food supply and clean water systems.”

So how do you work with him on worker policies when he refuses them to hire workers?

[JCanete]

146. Short answer? He doesn't. nt

[sheshe2]

147. K

[uponit7771]

89. BULL FUCKIN SHIT !!! NEVER EVER EVER NORMALIZE A BULLY UNTIL THEIR BEHAVIOR IS CHANGED!!!

[JCanete]

95. That didn't happen. He agreed with Trump's position on something Have we lost our fucking minds here

Trump's behavior is not going to change, that's absurd. But if you want to talk about actual bullies...kids who are learning...you know what? It would be pathological to dump on them for everything, even when you thought they were doing a good thing, just because you knew they were bullies. How would that help?

The point here isn't that we're normalizing bad behavior or bad policy. Sanders believes the TPP was a bad idea. So he is giving Trump his due for also opposing it. Big fucking whoop. All the other shit is us embarrassing ourselves on these boards.

[dionysus]

137. "All the other shit is us embarrassing ourselves on these boards."

Truer words were never spoken.

This is the first time i ever saw so many DUers advocating acting just like the rethuglicans did with obama...

Obstruction no matter what, wanting our own joe wilson to shout liar, ect ect.

Ive never seen it like that and i was on DU when it first began. It wasn't like this under shrub for crying out loud!

[Demsrule86]

173. We should for sure follow your advice if we want to lose.

Do not work with Trump period.

[JCanete]

174. utterly ridiculous. He's not likely to do anything else that is actually good,but if he did,

Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2017, 02:43 PM - Edit history (1)

we are not supposed to be the party that will play politics at the expense of the people. The Republicans don't give a shit about us. We could crawl into a ditch and die for all they care, and some would even get off on it, but for us to draw the same obstructionist line in the sand would be just as disgusting. If we can alleviate any pain at any level, and we refuse to because...politics, then that is pretty shitty.

Again, that has nothing to do with whether or not anybody actually believes that Trump will introduce or back anything that is bipartisan in nature going forward. Compromising or caving by accepting bullshit that he proposes is not at all the same thing, and we should absolutely not do this. if on the other hand, in some alternate reality, he wanted to raise minimum wage to 12 or 15 dollars, why would we fight that?

explain.

[Demsrule86]

181. In 2008, the GOP lost everything/

They won it back by stopping everything cold. So yes for the ultimate good of the country, we need to fight every damn thing. And I called Sherrod Brown who is up for election in 18 and told him a vote for the worst cabinet in history is a vote to destroy this country. Sherrod Brown will have a tough re-election campaign and this is not how you win.

[JCanete]

6. You're inserting a lot of shit that was not said or implied...to suggest that Sanders, who

publicly calls Trump a pathological liar, would not be approaching anything that Trump has done with said caution and suspicion, is an entirely self-serving narrative not born out in facts.

[pnwmom]

8. I purposely didn't name Sanders. I was speaking much more generally.

But he needs to guard his public approaches to DT and not give say anything that implies enthusiastic support for DT as a person.

The crocodile might have something in his mouth that is very important to you. But no one would be delighted to work with a crocodile in a swamp -- though you MIGHT be willing to.

[JCanete]

13. sure, but other people mentioned sanders, and then I did a search, and lo and behold, Sanders said

"delighted" just today. Not posting the name is almost disingenuous. It comes off as veiled.

I disagree with you by the way. Going on record as being positive about the few areas of Trump's rhetoric and even actions that you agree with, only strengthens your ability to lay on thick the disappointment when the man reneges on the couple almost decent things he campaigned on , and adds legitimacy, if even in small part, to all other criticisms of the man's policies.

Sanders has himself been resolute as it comes to TPP. It does not serve us to say one thing and then to say the other when a man we hate is in Washington. Yes, that works for republicans, but nobody actually trusts the republican congress...they just don't expect any better, and the media has made that okay for them.

edit:
and....oh my god, I should have read this thing before I posted. Sanders didn't even fucking say he was delighted to work with Trump. He said he "would be delighted to work with him" "if" Trump is actually serious about a new policy to help American workers. Well we all know he isn't. This is just more ground work with the intention of contrasting Trump's actual policies with his bullshit.

[pnwmom]

38. Bernie could go on record without saying he'd be "delighted" to work with the monster.

Just work with him and not give him the free, positive publicity among Bernie supporters.

[kacekwl]

48. Never known Bernie to be other that

thoughtful , cautious and I'm sure he is suspicious. But also knows trump likes his head patted and his belly rubbed. Working on getting something good from the Orange one . IMO.

[JCanete]

97. again, that's your absolute bullshit interpretation. nt

[pnwmom]

39. The words had the effect of normalizing DT and taking him at his word.

He is a proven liar who will say anything.

[JCanete]

98. fucking Christ. Exactly as Sanders has said over and over and over. He calls him a pathological liar

[whathehell]

41. They are delighted about the ISSUE, not the person..

I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[secondwind]

45. I agree. n/t

[QC]

55. What are these "issues" of which you speak?

Are you trying to suggest that there are things to discuss other than who's in and who's out and who's dreamy and who's a poopiehead?

Fascinating....

[whathehell]

124. Lol

Yes, like the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Good to see that disaster bite the dust.

[BlueCaliDem]

126. China is, too. They're probably partying right about now.

Does that make you feel better now?

[yardwork]

25. Sanders said he was delighted to work with Trump. True or false?

[JCanete]

28. actually false. Though I don't care. The insinuations are well beyond whether or not

Sanders said he was "delighted," to be able to work with Trump on something. They are that he is somehow teaming up with him or giving him unconscionable legitimacy. Well let me ask you, is it every day that people call the President elect a pathological liar, because Sanders does that regularly when referring to this one. I don't think that's very ambiguous. He's not walking back his opinion on Trump or behaving as a sycophant here. He's saying, "I don't trust you, but if you actually do good, I will note it."

Here is what Sanders actually said, if you care:

"If President Trump is serious about a new policy to help American workers, then I would be delighted to work with him.”

[yardwork]

96. Did Sanders ever say anything similar about working with President Obama?

[JCanete]

99. is this a serious question? Do you want me to find a time where he used the exact word?

Is that all you'll accept here or will any praise or positive sentiment due? I suspect not. It has to be "if obama does this thing, I will be delighted to work with him..."

that is fucking wild.

[yardwork]

102. You seem upset. My question was sincere.

As it happens, I would genuinely like to know if Sanders ever said anything enthusiastic and positive about working with President Obama. I hope he did. I would be glad to hear that he did.

[DRoseDARs]

36. "If President Trump is serious abt a new policy 2 help American workers, then I wd be delighted..."

"“I am glad the Trans-Pacific Partnership is dead and gone,” Sanders said. “For the last 30 years, we have had a series of trade deals — including the North American Free Trade Agreement, permanent normal trade relations with China and others — which have cost us millions of decent-paying jobs and caused a ‘race to the bottom’ which has lowered wages for American workers. Now is the time to develop a new trade policy that helps working families, not just multinational corporations. If President Trump is serious about a new policy to help American workers, then I would be delighted to work with him.”"



The TPP was a widely-criticized proposal here on DU and I dare say most wanted it stopped. I'm sure that honest and decent people here on DU would be upset if Hillary Clinton's words were ever taken out of their proper context, completely changing their meaning, and would NEVER do something so dishonest like that to someone else... say Sanders, right?

Right?

[DRoseDARs]

30. The disingenuousness from some on DU remains astounding.

You can almost feel the rage-spittle hitting the screen whenever his name is mentioned...

[Raster]

56. Oh yeah.... they have not stopped...

...nor do they have any intention of doing so.

[pnwmom]

150. I didn't even mention his name in the OP, or refer to any specific incident,

speaking only in the most general terms -- because I don't want ANY person in Congress to normalize DT ever -- but you seem determined to connect him with this.

Ironically, there were some people in this thread who didn't even know that Sanders had said he'd be delighted to work with DT, but now, thanks to you, they know it.

Good job!

[JCanete]

155. you already responded to this post, and I responded back as to your "not mentioning"

the person who you keep saying said something that that person didn't actually say. You think other people don't put two and two together, maybe, I don't know, use Google? And somebody mentioned Sanders before I did in this thread, not that I care about the lid coming off that strange secret.

Purposely "avoiding" saying his name BUT using the precise word used, is just silly, if not full on disingenuous. What was the value of that. Was it intended so that you could accuse him of doing something he didn't do, without actually accusing him of it, so that everybody in the know could come around and totally dump on him while you all smirkingly pretend like this is just some principled stance?

It's a ridiculous stance at that. I guess Obama normalized Trump when he went through the whole ceremony of transferring power to him, shaking his hand, etc. etc. Why not just say "Suck it Drumpf you aren't legit", and then blow him a raspberry?

Issues first. There will be ample opportunity to dress this lousy sack of shit down based upon his policies and rhetoric that suck, and little opportunity not to .By the way, other people have stated on this board that we should deny every policy under the Sun if it comes from Trump or the GOP. Well we fucking know how likely it is that anything actually good will come out of this man, but if it did, people actually think that we should deny the American people of something that would benefit their lives just because the Republicans were okay with doing that for the last 8 years, and because Trump is a shit? That is the pettiest bullshit I hope to ever hear on DU.

[pnwmom]

158. Obama never said he was delighted about anything to do with DT.

No one should, ever.

People will have to work with him but no one has to normalize him with expressions of enthusiasm.

[JCanete]

161. do you realize how stupid this is getting? You are making a whole argument about "normalization"

out of a single word that doesn't do that, and cannot do that in and of itself. If I were to say to you, "you know, the other day Lieberman literally got on his hands and knees and thanked Trump for the pleasure" you'd probably say, "but did he at any point use the word 'delighted?'" (actually sorry for this crass scenario, and when I have the energy will change it).

In fact, in the context it was actually used, there's an implicit impression I get that there will be no such delight happening. Its the kind of over-exaggerated language people are more apt to use with their enemies than with their friends. Its like saying "I would like nothing more," or "please enlighten me." Seriously, I could see you doing the same thing if Sanders had used enlighten. "I look forward to Trump enlightening me on how he is going to bring jobs back to American workers." Then there'd almost certainly be a post about some anonymous congress person who used the word "enlighten," which empowers the groper in chief as somebody who could in-fact have the knowledge and legitimacy to "enlighten" someone on anything.

[KPN]

159. +1000!

[pnwmom]

9. And when was he ever "delighted" to work with Obama? n/t

[whathehell]

44. When he worked with him on the AFfordable Care Act..

Maybe it's time to get over it. Seriously.

[kacekwl]

49. +1000

[whathehell]

154. Thank you. n/t.

[pnwmom]

151. Do you have a link for that? I haven't been able to find any expressions of delight. n/t

[whathehell]

153. Maybe

They're classified.

[Cha]

70. It doesn't seem anything since he wanted him primared in 2012

[JCanete]

103. that sounds like really solid methodology you employed there Cha.

It should definitely be the gold standard...

[Cha]

128. Talk to sanders.. he's the one who wanted President Obama

primaried in 2012

[NurseJackie]

179. I cannot recall such a thing ever happening ...

... or being characterized in that manner. Weird, huh?

[ehrnst]

17. Thank you. (nt)

[JCanete]

14. uhuh...good thing we got rid of the post-mortem forum..nt

[Raster]

40. We didn't. It just morphed into whatever forum the anti-Sanders brigade...

...currently posts in.

Same shit, same people. Now they just try to find a more clever way to disparage Senator Sanders and/or anyone that dared to question the Clinton candidacy, or whatever perceived slight du jour is trending today.

OVER IT!

[Longtime lurker 99]

12. Oppose everything

Good afternoon All
I am a long time lurker who finally signed up for an account because I wanted to post. I couldn't start a thread of my own because of my post count. I want to say something (actually a lot of things) and this looks like the correct thread.

These Democratic senators and representatives need to oppose EVERYTHING! The republicans were rewarded for it. In 2009 the republicans were even a greater minority than the Dems are now. They opposed everything that President Obama tried to do and now look at them. Unfortunately, I feel like this is going to be 2002 all over again and the Dems will roll over. I really wish that they would grow some balls.

[compsports]

26. I completely agree with you

Longtime lurker,

I completely agree with you as one who voted for Sanders in the primary. Never say you are delighted to work with a snake.

By the way, I called Senator Warner's office about the letter he and Senator Kaine signed along with 13 other Senators asking to work with the Republicans to save the ACA. I wanted clarification and the staff person explained they were trying to save parts of it.

My response was that there was nothing worth saving and that if the Democrats worked with the Republicans to come up with a watered down bill, it would be a disaster and they would get blamed. They need to say to the Republicans, "You break it, you own it.".

[pnwmom]

33. Welcome to DU, Longtime lurker 99!

Your idea is something they should be thinking about very carefully, given what we know about from recent history.'

Glad you've joined the discussion.

[tavalon]

138. Pussys actually. I wish they would grow some vaginas

And we need to call them every single day to let them know what we expect them to do.

Work for us = win. Work against us = lose.

[jalan48]

15. I was more concerned with Obama wanting to work with the Republicans to pass the TPP.

[JCanete]

16. yeah, no shit. It really isn't about policies for us on these boards. We think the hate can save us

from the hate I guess.

[tecelote]

23. It's really a small cabal here but they are very vocal.

You could start a thread with just "Bernie Sanders" as the title and content and they could not help themselves but vent over and over again.

He's a powerful force on our side. He may not be a Democrat but 40% of America is Independent. We're fools to play the elitist card.

[Gothmog]

18. Agreed

[LexVegas]

21. Sanders is who I thought he was. nt

[Talk Is Cheap]

24. Maybe Sanders' haters could form their own group...

Maybe someday people here will understand that Senator Sanders is 'playing chess' and working his ass off for real Democratic (i.e. normal) values.

[pnwmom]

31. His chess game isn't that good then. n/t

[QC]

51. Why should they when they're allowed to run the whole site? n/t

[Raster]

57. No fucking shit!

[pnwmom]

77. The post was deliberately written in a general way and didn't name anyone.

He may have been among the first to say something like this but he won't be the last.

[Talk Is Cheap]

79. No offense, but your statement is weak at best...

[QC]

82. That is a truly Spicerian statement. n/t

[melman]

83. You know this thread was meant as a Bernie-bash thread

and so does everybody else. Why are you even bothering with this game?

[pnwmom]

86. It's meant to criticize an action that I don't want ANYONE to take,

now or in the future.

NO ONE SHOULD BE NORMALIZING THE CROCODILE IN THE SWAMP.

[sheshe2]

144. What are...

What are real Democratic (i.e. normal) values? Who are the real Democrats? Please explain what makes a real Democrat. TIA.

[Liberal In Red State]

27. To late. Matt Damon says he'll pitch clean water program to Trump . That's just what the

Grabber-in-Chief wants . . . Hollywood to come knocking.

[Cha]

58. Oh hell no.. right drumpfuck will go for "clean water" meanwhile

Damon is normalizing him.

[NightWatcher]

29. I'd be delighted to help him pack to move out of the White House next month.

And by "help" I mean chuck his tacky shit into one of those rolling dumpsters.

[MBS]

32. + 1000 n/t.

[mac56]

34. How very glad I am that we've all gotten over fighting about the primaries.

[pnwmom]

35. I wrote this to apply generally because it would be wrong no matter who did it.

Bernie said the words, though, so this is on him at the moment.

[Raster]

42. with all due respect, You meant your comments to be aimed directly at Senator Sanders...

...all you're doing now is trying to be cagey to not break the rules. You're not fooling anyone.

[melman]

47. Exactly

All this "I didn't mention Sanders" stuff is ridiculous.

[QC]

52. +1

[elmac]

46. I voted for Bernie in the Primary

and have been a fan of his for over 10 years but you are 100% right for calling out any progressive who thinks we should work with or be delighted to work with the orange monster or the whole fascist party. We must not give in one bit, no matter what.

[Cha]

67. This has nothing to do with that.. and you should know that. This is

trump we're talking about.

[elmac]

43. Agree

there should be no working with that monster no matter how sweet the deal sounds. Any progressive should have known better, the high road crap has got to end.

[Squinch]

53. That was an assinine statement he made. I guess we know who will NOT hold the line.

[handmade34]

54. agree

no matter how much I love having Bernie represent me... I agree "No one should be "delighted" to work with DT"

[Sienna86]

59. What if DT wants single payer?

I'd be delighted to support that issue. Don't bash Democrats.

[DRoseDARs]

68. SANDERS ISN'T A DEMOCRALBAHLBASLKJDFINIHSDNF!!!!111!!!!1

BLBLBJEIURHKSLHDVLMHCFNJUIGNLJKSDVF*fizzle**pop*

Seriously, they have little else but their hatred of Sanders because he dared stand in her path towards her eventual nomination. Even after the vote tallies show she won by 3 million popular votes, even after Russia had been exposed as directly interfering with the election they rage at him, blame him. Unthinkable that they take their teeth out of him and apply more force into the flesh of Republicans.

As you say and DU rules stipulate: Don't bash DemocraaaAAASANDERS ISN'T A DEMOCRALFDKFISCDHSNHVGLSDHG!!11!!

[Hekate]

69. DT lies with every breath. And Sanders is not a Democrat, by his own choice and repeated testimony.

[JCanete]

118. Isn't it stated very clearly here to not bash Democrats or allies? Sanders being specifically named?

[Hekate]

129. Oh, was she talking about Sanders specifically? He was not named in the OP....

Personally, I did not find the OP to be bashing Democrats or our allies, but a thoughtful comment on the necessity of being extremely careful about getting sucked into ANYTHING by Trump or his minions. They lie with every breath.

That was my take on the OP.

[JCanete]

136. I don't think that op was bashing, whether she had listed his name or not.

Why she didn't was kind of silly, and as I posted elsewhere, seemed veiled. But, had you argued that there was nothing bashing about the post, I would have agreed with you.

But you thought it more fun to post "he's not a democrat," as if that would then absolve any bashing done to him. Or to be fair, you saw a window and thought it was another great opportunity to point out something entirely irrelevant for who knows what reason.

What is actually funny, is people thinking that Trump is deceptive and tricksy. He is, as Sanders has said, a pathological liar. He is also not competent enough to even be a good one. Nobody isn't being careful, and even saying that we need to be "careful" is going way too far to assume that we'll actually walking into some barn for a moot with him and surrendering our weapons. Again, nobody is doing this. The comment that IF Trump would do a certain thing Sanders would be delighted, is more taunt than anything. It is basically a challenge to do these things. It doesn't do much, but it puts Sanders on record as not opposing everything the idiot proposes or does, and Sanders didn't have to compromise on any issues to do it.

[pnwmom]

152. Which Democrat are we talking about? I'm confused.

And I wasn't bashing anyone. I'm saying we don't need ANYONE to normalize DT.

[NurseJackie]

64. It's a mistake, in my opinion, for anyone to do anything that legitimizes Trump.

I'm also of the belief that those who do such things are motivated less by any minor points of agreement and more by the possibilities of personal gain or professional gain.

When Obama was in office, the GOP used his willingness to reach across the aisle against him ... and they still opposed him at every opportunity. There were even one or two who betrayed Obama.

Now that Trump is in office, the GOP will AGAIN use the "sense of fairness" and willingness of those who think it's okay to "reach across the aisle" yet again.

It's as if they haven't learned anything. The Democrats need to learn to play dirty too.

When they go low ... WE NEED TO GO LOWER!! Otherwise, we'll always lose.

[Tom Rinaldo]

65. Bernie always has and always will be guided by his principles

Many politicians use double speak to mask their real motivations, Bernie never has and never will. What he wants and what he does is always consistent with what he believes is in the best interests of the American people. Really, not pretend. Sanders doesn't expect Trump to deliver for the American people on a vast spectrum of issues. And when he doesn't he will not hesitate to call him out pointedly and vigorously over it. Sanders doesn't trust Trump on anything, he repeatedly calls him a pathological liar and he means that seriously, not rhetorically.

I'm not worried about Bernie propping up Trump or normalizing him or any of the other fears some seem to have. He will almost always be a fierce opponent of Trump . But if Trump improves NAFTA for American workers, for example, Sanders would cooperate on passing an improved treaty. I have no problem with it. And, by the way, it is also politically smart. Some of those who want Trump to succeed should be on our side, except they felt too desperate and gambled on Trump instead. Abstractly saying that we will oppose him on everything, even those things that seem on the surface to greatly benefit average Americans is stupid. What is smart is exposing Trump each and every time that his rhetoric in favor of working Americans and his actions in favor of the wealthiest Americans collide. And no one does that better than Bernie.

[Hekate]

72. Sure, and his principles are that he is a gadfly

[JCanete]

120. which is far far better than no gadflies. nt

[Hekate]

131. Well, when your target is always your supposed friends because you want them to be perfect....

....it does lose some of its charm over time. Just sayin'

[JCanete]

157. made-up narrative. "want them to be perfect..." "always target your friends..."

Neither of those things are remotely true. That's your selective filter working. The only time YOU pay attention to Sanders is when he's saying something that gets YOU riled up and defensive. Don't give me some line of bullshit about all he ever does when you don't actually know.

[pnwmom]

78. How can anyone be "delighted" to work with a crocodile in a swamp?

You do it because you have to, because that monster has your baby in its jaws, but you're not delighted.

[Tom Rinaldo]

85. The "delight" would be in easing hardships for most Americans

If in fact there were ever an important instance where Trump was actually ready (for whatever reason) to do right for the American people. The delight would be in achieving something meaningful, not in the process by which it was done. Bernie knows why he is in Washington. He hasn't forgotten where he came from. I can understand if people feel a need to debate whether all Democrats should treat Trump exactly the way Republicans treated Obama, even when that hurts the nation - as it was with Republicans refusing to to support massive infrastructure rebuilding when people needed jobs. But to get hung up on the use of the word "delight" is, I believe, petty and misguided.

[pnwmom]

88. That's what should be said then.

But speaking of being delighted to work with DT has the effect of normalizing him.

[melman]

100. He has to live in reality

The reality where he is a senator and Trump is the president.

Others can just post nonsense on a message board, but he has to actually do stuff. Which is considerably harder, but also far more beneficial and important.

[pnwmom]

104. I haven't heard Elizabeth Warren say she'll be delighted to work with DT

on anything. Have you?

And I'm sure she will accomplish as much as can be accomplished in working with the swamp thing.

[Cha]

66. It's "normalizing" that idiot..and there's nothing normal about

him.. trump is a sick fuck.

Witness this fucking weekend.. CIA, inaug speech, spicer presser.

[Gothmog]

81. Normalizing Trump is not a good move

[BlueCaliDem]

132. Normalizing Trumputin is the dumbest thing any Democrat or Democratic ally could do

after EIGHT FUCKING YEARS of unprecedented obstructionism by Republicans against THE BEST president of my lifetime - bar none - and then they actually came right out and boasted about it! Haven't they learned anything??

This, of course, in addition to Republican voter suppression laws, voter roll purges, shutting down early voting days, putting a single polling place in a hugely populated minority district, gerrymandering, FBI collusion, Russian hacking and interference, and a media propagandizing BENGHAZI!!1, EMAILZZZZ!11, private server!!!, made-up accusations of corruption against our Democratic candidate...yet now some believe we should forgive any Democrat or Democratic ally who has come out publicly and stated that he is "delighted" to work with Putin's puppet on issues that the mangled-mango has the weakest record on? Seriously??

Fuck that and anyone who even thinks of working with this Russian candidate in the White House.

[Hekate]

71. Right. You are being thoughtful.

Also, I trust others will concur with me that you should survive the alert.

[tirebiter]

75. Back to Smoot-Hawley we go

It took the 1929 Depression and FDR to undo protectionism and establish free trade. Get ready for a bumpy ride.

[uponit7771]

87. +++DEMOCRATS SHOULD BE TAUGHT HOW TO DEAL WITH BULLIES !!!+++ Bullies are not assholes in

... public or in certain settings because they don't want to be disliked either or they're in a place they can't control.

When they feel secure they turn into 200% assholes... that's ANOTHER reason why Benedict Donald waits until he's behind a phone to act out.

Benedict Donald is a punk... a typical wimp... punch him in the face he's done ...


DO NOT NORMALIZE DONALD TRUMP !!!

[former9thward]

105. How long are you going to re-fight the primaries?

[pnwmom]

106. The OP has nothing to do with the primaries.

It has to do with not taking any actions going forward that serve to normalize DT.

[SidDithers]

107. DU rec...

"Never let the narcissist's charms and temptations draw you into behaving as an ally. You can agree to agree on certain issues without being an ally."




Sid

[Uponthegears]

108. I have no problem with this

but ONLY so long as the same standard is applied to EVERY Democrat.

From this point forward ANY Democrat who supports ANYTHING Trump proposes is to be immediately excoriated by the entire DU community.

If this isn't the standard for EVERY Democrat . . . well . . .

THE PRIMARY IS OVER

[pnwmom]

111. This isn't about supporting DT on any particular issue. It's about expressing

delight in the possibility of working with him -- which serves to normalize him.

And I would oppose that on the part of ANY Democrat or any member of the media.

[Uponthegears]

114. I actually agree with you

On the "delighted" terminology.

I also think there is a reason for even considering Trump's move NOT a good thing at all (even if you oppose the TPP). Withdrawing from the TPP is a good thing ONLY if it is part of an overall trade policy that protects the environment, distributes wealth to workers, etc. Trump isn't doing any if that so, coming from him, even withdrawing from the TPP is a bad thing.

Unfortunately, as I pointed out above, there is more bashing Bernie going on in this string than discussing why Trump's move won't help the people he claims to be helping.

Trump's the enemy, not Bernie.

[pnwmom]

115. You make some very good points.

The trade and environment policies DT will advocate will NOT be an improvement on the TPP, as flawed as it may be.

[Uponthegears]

117. So true

In the very areas where the TPP hurt this country the Trumplacement will be a hundred times worse.

[Quayblue]

109. Kick

And Rec

[Uponthegears]

112. I'll miss Chuck

I thought he could lead the fight against Trump but:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/chuck-schumer-donald-trump-231672

Off to Excoriateville with him.

[pnwmom]

113. Could you point to the place where he talks about being delighted to work with DT?

Being willing to work with DT and being delighted about the prospect are two different things.

[Uponthegears]

116. No

We agree 100% on that!!!!!!

[MurrayDelph]

119. Not true! I would be delighted to work with him

IF, what I was working with him on was the confession that would remove him and Pence from the Oval Office, remove his Cabinet choices, and take down the Congressional quislings that assisted him.


Other than that, fuck him.

[forjusticethunders]

122. The only response any principled person to make to a Trump offer

is "get behind me, Satan".

He could offer to abolish capitalism tomorrow and my answer will still be "fuck off".

[dionysus]

125. Oh FFS, he isn't jumping up and clicking his heels in joy, he was

Being polite.

He also, if i recall, couched it in the terms "i'll be delighred to work with DT if he's not fucking over the people..."

[tavalon]

134. I am a nighrshifter and I just woke up

Is this a generalized statement (which I wholeheartedly agree with) or are their specific Congress critters who need our slecjal attention for some utterly stupid statement today?

If it is the latter, we need to help them understand, through calls, letters, pictures of Saturday's protest, that we are powerful and they answer to us, they cooperate with us and that is how they get our power.

Collaborating with the enemy will also earn them our power, but in that case, it will be in the form of wrath and loss of their political career.

[pnwmom]

139. Someone said it, but I purposely wrote the OP not to be specific,

because I don't want ANY Senators or Congresspeople to do anything that serves to normalize DT. Working with him, very cautiously, is one thing. Feeding DT's ego with words that DT can use for favorable publicity is very different.

[tavalon]

140. Well

I figured it out. I'll need to fact check but if it was said, I have no problem taking my very favorite Senator to the woodshed.

[JHan]

142. Bernie erred here, not a smart political move by any measure.. sigh.

[retrowire]

143. His use of "delighted" is absolute.

Meaning, he'd be delighted to work with a crocodile that does everything his way, the right way.

Bernie is a good guy. Never forget.

[SaschaHM]

145. I'd be ok with it if folks applied their "normalizing Trump" outrage to every situation...

but they don't and it's very selective.

[triron]

148. That's for sure!

Cancelling TPP bad idea

[Rex]

149. He treats everyone like shit.

And that is one of his better traits.

[betsuni]

160. Yeah, that's like walking around with a "Kick me" sign taped to your back.

And wondering why people have been kicking you all day.

[womanofthehills]

162. Why did you not post the actual quote - what Bernie really said?

CNN)Calling President Donald Trump's executive action to withdraw from the negotiating process of the Trans-Pacific Partnership "a positive step," Sen. Bernie Sanders on Monday said he would be "delighted," IN THEORY, to work with the White House to build a trade policy that benefits working Americans rather than just the wealthy.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/23/politics/sanders-says-he-would-work-with-trump-for-new-trade-policy-cnntv/index.html

You left out IN THEORY.
definition
used in describing what is supposed to happen or be possible, usually with the implication that it does not in fact happen.
"in theory, things can only get better; in practice, they may well become a lot worse"
synonyms: in principle, on paper, in the abstract, all things being equal, in an ideal world;

[pnwmom]

163. Because I wasn't specifically talking about Bernie.

He did happen to say that he would be delighted to work with DT (toward policies he supported), but I don't think ANYONE should say things like this. Bernie may (or may not) have been the first, but he's probably not going to be the last.

ON EDIT: Why did you leave out the title of the article you just posted: "Sanders: I'd be 'delighted' to work with Trump on trade policy"

Bernie did not actually use the words, "in theory." That was the writer's paraphrase. What Bernie said was "If Mr. Trump is serious about moving in that direction I'd be delighted to work with him."

But we all know DT is not serious about developing pro-worker policies, so we shouldn't be giving public credence to his lies.

[JCanete]

166. but he isn't giving credence to it, in fact he is opening up a dialog as to whether or not Trump is

actually serious about it. The very statement is not what you would say about somebody you had confidence in, or wanted other people to believe you had confidence in. Then you would probably say, "President Trump is committed to," or "I believe President Trump is committed to." The very use of if here actually casts a dubiousness regarding Trump's supposed intentions. Now that's just my read, but maybe you should allow for some wiggle room on your own.

[QC]

170. Because that would not serve the purpose of refighting the primary

in a sufficiently indirect, wink-wink manner to avoid a possible deletion.

[MFM008]

167. ugh

just ugh.

[Tom Rinaldo]

169. Hillary "normalized" Trump's presidency the most by attending his inaugaration.

She even acted delighted to be there. Hillary more than any of the Democratic members of Congress who also attended normalized Trump, because she was the formal leader of the opposition in the election that installed Trump in the Oval Office. I don't personally find fault with her for doing so, I respect her reasons for being there. But her attending his inauguration afforded Trump the same legitimacy in the transfer of state power as was afforded any of his predecessors in that office. State business as usual.

This all is an essentially irrelevant distraction from the work that lies before all of us which, in the political realm, is to make sure that the government of the United States helps the people of this nation rather than screwing us, and that is always a multi-faceted fight that is seldom pure and simple.

[Orsino]

171. An elected representative had better at least pretend to be delighted...

...to be doing what s/he is paid to do, though I suppose it might depend on what that work is--something you omitted.

But I see Post Mortem is no longer taking your calls.

[Jake2413]

172. If you are working with Trump

you are working to increase his personal fortune. It is only good for the country if it is good for Trump.

[mvd]

175. But this is the Democratic Party's position during the tRump years.

Work with him when you can and oppose strongly everything else (which will be the vast majority). As long as Sanders puts things in perspective, I am ok with it. I am confident Bernie will provide strong opposition.

[pnwmom]

176. The issue is how you do it. Saying publicly that you would be

"delighted" to work with him -- especially on something you KNOW he won't do -- feeds into his publicity machine and normalizes him.

[mvd]

178. Well, personally it does not bother me

Just so he is enthusiastic in his disgust about all the bad things. I am sure he will have that.

[NastyRiffraff]

177. Thank you for this thread, pnwmom

This is a discussion we need to have. We can support good, progressive policies no matter where they come from as long as the proposed outcome is clear. That's very different from being delighted to work with the SwampPeople. Although sometimes it's necessary, even desirable, we don't have to, and shouldn't, be "delighted" to do so. And, we should be very wary of doing so; these people believe facts are things that can be manipulated at will...their will.

I think Democrats (real ones) should fight Dump's Cabinet nominees tooth and nail, even though they most likely will lose. Why? Because it will enrage and frustrate Dump, who I believe wants nothing less than 100% approval, without annoying questions of the candidates. They should fight every single policy decision that will hurt working people, seniors, women, LGBT, the disabled, the poor.

[Gothmog]

180. McCain: Without trade pact, China will be economically dominant

Trump and Sanders are helping China http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/john-mccain-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-234093

President Donald Trump’s decision to back the United States out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement will ultimately cede economic and political power to China, Sen. John McCain said Tuesday morning, making it a decision that “is not good for the United States of America.”

“My concern is that we consign the Asia pacific region to China,” McCain (R-Ariz.) said Tuesday on “CBS This Morning.” “They have now a very significant economic role, where 60 percent of the world's economy is in the Asia-Pacific region, and we are stepping back. I have talked to leaders of Asian countries who have all said that this will cede the field to China. And that, to me, is not good for the United States of America.”

I disagree with McCain on most issues but even a broken clock is right twice a day