What is the fascination with Nazis? And why do people want to idolize Nazis?

[jillan]

Researching something I want to purchase online, I was taken to ioffer.com

I sell on Ebay. I was intrigued - so I looked around to see what kind of website it was...
and stumbled across this...

http://www.ioffer.com/c/Collectibles-150000/

For those of you that don't want to click on the link, let me fill you in on some of the things that are listed on that page:
*A Nazi Uniform - complete - $510
*Bronze Nazi Eagle with Nazi logo
*Nazi Iron Cross
*1941 Nazi coffee mug
*Nazi Flag - Several
*WW2 German knife
*Nazi Pin

And that's just on page 1!

Who is buying this stuff?????? And why???

[freshwest]

1. People who don't feel powerful romanticize it. People who hate Hitler imagine they're better.

The level of self-deception in human beings has always been impressive.

Makes for a lot of drama to learn by.

[SoutherDem]

2. White supremacists?

That would be my first thought, but WW2 collectors maybe. I wouldn't want such trash in my house. But that is just me.

[FarCenter]

3. If style won wars, they would have won

[MADem]

7. Intimidating, well-tailored uniforms, hats that made the wearer appear taller, those mean and shiny

jackboots (perfect attire for the well-dressed "jackbooted thug" after all!)....and the intricately crafted insignia and Gee-Gaws. They had more fruit salad/Xmas decorations on their costumes than the Rockettes!

But they were bad, bad, BAD people. What good is fine tailoring without humanity?

[sarge43]

20. Eons ago I read an article that made a good argument that

in a all others things being relatively equal the army with the more gaudy uniform is more likely to lose. At least beginning with industrialized warfare and especially in the higher ranks

[MADem]

39. I'll buy that--some of the biggest banana republics (and oil based/other dictatorships) have

uniforms that are totally ready for the catwalk, with more fruit salad than a brunch station at the Watergate hotel!





A ton more at this site--some real beauts: http://www.filibustercartoons.com/pictessays_leaders_olddict.php

[sarge43]

46. When you got it, you don't need to flaunt it.

With the exception of the scrambled eggs and the shoulder doodads, our WWII flags compared to the German brass were positively understated -- Patton excepted.

[MADem]

48. +1!!! nt

[sarge43]

55. Yeah, when image is more important than the mission, a FUBAR is about to report in. n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

24. If you ever have the chance to see Scrapbooks from Hell...

...watch it. It's scrapbooks from a commander from one of the camps.
The saddest and scariest part is that they were just normal people. It would have been easier to take if they had been monsters. This is something someone says on the show. It is the scrapbook where all of the pictures we have of the camps come from.
Those poor people had been so dehumanized, the German people didn't think of them as people and it made it easier to ignore it. Until the war ended and they made every single one of them walk through the camps and help to bury the dead.

[MADem]

28. The Human MIND...it can be strong and it can be very, very weak.

We learned a bit about the mechanics of the latter condition from Stanley Milgram!

[MADem]

43. I remember that documentary. It was ... ghastly. Picnics while the people burned! Horrible! nt

[YellowRubberDuckie]

58. Yes.

Ghastly. Not a word I hear all the time. Good word.

[Posteritatis]

40. "The side with the simplest uniform wins." (nt)

[FarCenter]

47. So take a look at the US Army dress blue uniform that you now see on TV

This is often worn by officers testifying in committee hearings in DC and on other occasions. When worn with a tie, it is casual, and when worn with a bow tie, it is equivalent to a Tuxedo. Note the retro look, harking back to the Civil War, with the shoulder bars and the yellow stripe on the pants.

The mess dress uniform is more formal.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zOm-saPqCpw/SrJUTi9gG-I/AAAAAAAAACs/0_y_N4hOcDk/s400/galan+ausa+1.jpg

Actually, uniforms are just a symptom. One problem that the Germans had in WW II is that their designs were too complicated, they had too many models of stuff, and they emphasized design over reliability. This strained maintenance and spare parts logistics and reduced their overall effectiveness.

The US and Russia, on the other hand, produced simpler, cheaper, more reliable, and more standardized weapons in larger volumes. There is, for example, no reason to machine a surface of a casting or forging if the dimension and finish isn't critical to operation. Making it look nice is not functional.

[MADem]

49. OTOH, that uniform is rarely worn--the day-to-day uniform looks like pajamas!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Combat_Uniform

[Posteritatis]

52. I'd kind of exempt most dress uniforms (and all mess dress uniforms!), but yeah.

Most actual combat uniforms these days are at least pretty functional, and certainly a far cry from the ones a century back where they were still throwing primary colours around at times.

When you're pushing design or appearance on the stuff people expect to be shot at while wearing, your priorities are definitely heading in the wrong directions, as you said.

[jillan]

4. I went on page 2, and there they have busts of Hitler.

done with that site!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

5. My uncle kept a Nazi Naval Officer's dagger and scabbard in his house for years

Last edited Sun Jun 24, 2012, 02:28 AM - Edit history (2)

But in his case he killed the Nazi officer during the liberation of the port of Marseille. He was in the resistance and I have photos at home taken by war journalists showing him shooting a heavy machine gun in street fighting.

________________________

On Edit: Here's a photo of him I found on a website about the liberation of Marseiile. I've seen his photos appear many times in newspapers on the commemoration day of this battle. He's wearing his father's Navy uniform from World War I.

[TheMadMonk]

6. Nazis knew how to put "the wrong kind of people" in their "proper place".

Sadly, it's as simple and appealing as that.

[MrSlayer]

8. Honestly? Because they had the coolest uniforms.

There is nothing to recommend the Nazis or Nazism but their uniforms and insignias were badass. That's why people collect them, they look great. Hell, they're Hugo Boss.

Pretty simple.

[Scootaloo]

9. Pretty much; It's why there's a Nazi fashion scene in Japan

They couldn't give a damn about the political aspects of the stuff; they just like the fashion.

Sort of the same reason we emulate the Roman empire in so much of our government architecture. The romans were pretty huge fucking assholes too, but damn they could make a nice-looking building.

[Art_from_Ark]

18. You mean like these idiots?

http://matometanews.com/archives/1400278.html

Fortunately, the "Nazi fashion scene" in Japan is limited to a few dum-dums.

[Scootaloo]

56. Yeah, like that... Well, except for the Stalingrad Cowboys

[Speck Tater]

17. There's something to this.

Before I even opened the thread, just based on the title of the O.P. my very FIRST thought was "because they had the coolest uniforms." It's a fact. Plain and simple. Just like the modern Republicans have all the coolest slogans and slickest propaganda campaigns. Unlike the Democrats the bad guys always seem to realize that APPEARANCES MATTER.

All politics aside, NOBODY is saying to themselves "I wanna look just like THIS guy".

[MADem]

31. I'd rather look like Barney than "Captain Orange" Bonehead! ANY day! nt

[-..__...]

27. That they did.

Surprisingly, the most recognized uniform associated with Nazi Germany (the black and silver uniform of the SS), was only in fashion for two years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Many years ago you could find all this at the swap meet

Granted, the folks who sold them, also sold US Nam era uniforms, bayonets et al.

In fact, I bought a bayonet, it was used as a rescue knife for many years, together with a dedicated one. It probably saved my life too, and the dedicated Gerber knife could not have done that. Started to slip on the side of a steep hill, dug that thing so hard into the ground that it held, until I could get my footing back... by the way my prusik cord (and knott) failed.

Yup it took two weeks with a sharpening stone and ten minutes every day, to remove all the pits on the sharp edge.

As to what is the fascination? It is the last good war, and many of the vets brought these things across... now their kids and grandkids want them... I mean what did grand dad do during the war?

Of course there are the sick fucks who actually believe the ideology... and at times separating one group from the other can prove interesting.

Oh and the guy who sold these things... he was a WW II vet himself, he spent some time in the Boccage. His war came to an end when he stepped on a mine... as he put it., it's a living.

[dionysus]

13. was that before or after you used your bullwhip to swing across a chasm to escape the rolling

boulder?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. The same reason they idolize vampires, zombies, and Rush Limbaugh.

[dionysus]

12. if i had the dough I'd buy vintage WW2 stuff as collectors items. doesn't mean i like nazis...

plus it's rare and valuable.

[HubertHeaver]

14. Several reasons. One big one is period fascination.

The war cast a very long and dark shadow. Veterans had trouble letting go of the war. Their children couldn't understand their clinging to the past. These artifacts are a tangible reminder of a father or uncle(s) that one just could not understand.

The items on the OP's list were probably brought back a war trophies. A former neighbor had a house full of ordinance--German potato-masher style grenades, US pineapple style grenades, mortar shells, small-arms ammunition, 20 MM and on and on. He had the stuff displayed in plain sight. The pineapple grenade looked as though it had not been "safed" so I asked. He said no, everything was live. My children did not enter his house.

The night he died (in the hospital) his wife called the police dept to tell them there was ordinance in her house and would they please come and get it. She was not going back in there until it was gone.

Then, there are the White Supremacist and Aryan Nation knuckleheads who glory in this stuff.

[SheilaT]

15. My take is that these people have absolutely

no idea what the Nazis really did, nor what they really tood for.

I recently read "A Train in Winter" which is about women of the French Resistance who were rounded up in 1940 and 1941 and sent to concentration camps. The true brutality of those camps is largely forgotten until you read something like this.

[Odin2005]

16. 1. Collectors, 2. Neo-Nazis.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. I have a few relics from the Nazi era

My collection is just a few coins and stamps from Nazi Germany and some occupied countries, just to maintain a tangible reminder of this sordid page of history for future generations.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

21. Lots of Nazi stuff on Amazon as well.

Anything for a buck.

[moh]

22. Racists and less educated

People are buying them as they do not understand what the nazis actually did, neither do they understand what would of happened if the nazis had won the war.

As many people are starting to get radical views about muslims and jews they are looking to a way to express that anger and they believe that if the nazi regime had won WW2 they wouldn't have to deal with these problems.

i would say it's mainly based in economic hardships and the civilian population often need someone to blame so they blame people who are not from the same country as them or do not have the same heritage. So buying this uniform they could be sending a clear message to the people who are not like him saying that they are the pure race and no one else should be allowed in there country.

Also another reason is that they may just like the uniform.

Hope these are enough reasons.

[jillan]

51. Welcome to DU & thanks for your thoughtful post!

[kenny blankenship]

23. Sometimes a corporatist needs to slip into something more comfortable

Repukes and third wayers need loungewear too, maybe something naughty to set the mood.

[Johnny Rico]

25. Firearms which are "Nazi-Marked" can be worth considerably more than those that aren't.

I have about a dozen Nazi-issue firearms in my collection. Even at the time of WW2, our soldiers would go out of their way to acquire souvenirs of the enemy, be it guns, knives, medals, etc. Today, I think it's in large part because the Nazis are the "greatest" villains in history...which makes their stuff cool to collect.

This assumes we're speaking of originals. I don't see the appeal of reproductions, myself.

[dionysus]

26. how cool woulde it be to get an STG-44\MP-44?

they got to be very rare and ard to get a license for...

[Johnny Rico]

42. Well, if you have $15,000 in spare change lying around...

I believe that's the ballpark price for an MP-44. The license isn't that hard to get, as long as you have a clean record and don't live in one of the dozen or so states that prohibit private ownership of full auto weapons. I went through a very similar process when I purchased a silencer last year. The paperwork cost $200 and took about 7 months to process.

[Nevernose]

30. I have one.

If sold, it could not only pay off my student loans, but buy me a car, too. I only keep it because it's a family heirloom.

[Johnny Rico]

44. You have one...what, exactly?

I'm curious, since very few Nazi-marked firearms are worth tens of thousands. They're worth money, yes...but almost none of them are worth that much.

[Quantess]

29. You can't assume the interest is all about admiration.

Some jewish people are interested in this particular point in history. There can be healing involved when we look into hurtful or horrendous events.

[-..__...]

32. Apparently the same people who buy butterfly knives, brass knuckles and bootleg CD's/DVD's.

The delivery/shipping charge is more than any of that crap is worth.

[Nevernose]

33. With the teenagers I see

I think it's mostly an issue of rebellion and "rooting for the bad guy." It's childish, granted, but they are just children. It's been both fascinating and horrifying to watch some of my students, though: they were raised up in this racist, neo-nazi bullshit, and a family's influence is far stronger than a school's or community's.

[Adsos Letter]

34. All the Nazi stuff I see on that page are reproductions, not authentic pieces.

there is no way you're going to get an authentic "WWII NAZI GERMAN 1939 KNIGHTS IRON CROSS WITH OAK LEAVES" for $77.50, or a "WWII NAZI GERMAN SS M32 UNIFORM SET" for $510.00.

Which makes the question of fascination even more relevant given that the items are reproductions and not authentic artifacts.

[Auggie]

35. Where's the Nazi Pez Dispenser?

Holy Fascist Dictator ... there IS one!

[-..__...]

37. Bad marketing...

I'd be tempted to buy some of these just for the absurdity/bizarreness factor...

[Romulox]

36. Their ideology was repellent, but their iconography was stunning. I would NEVER purchase

any of that garbage, however.

[Posteritatis]

41. That's a good, simple way of putting it. (nt)

[DefenseLawyer]

38. Authoritarians find the tenents of fascism very comforting

always have and always will. That's why it's so easy for fascism to take hold, even though it seems patently insane to normal people.

[MADem]

45. If you're comfortable being told what to do, like to color between the lines, never stray from the

path, I suppose the fearful and insecure would regard it as a warm hug--assuming they were in with the "in crowd."

And some people just don't feel ALIVE unless they have an enemy--someone to blame for all their woes!

Sounds like the GOP....

[Egalitarian Thug]

50. Exactly +1. Too many Americans really believe that HItler's only mistake was killing the Jews.

Just look at the republican party and about half of the Democratic, these people are more than anxious to surrender to Big Daddy who will tell them what to do and keep them safe.

[Nye Bevan]

53. Are collectors of civil war memorabilia idolizing slavery?

Perhaps some are, but I don't think all.

[Posteritatis]

54. Yeah, I don't like the whole "interested in X" = "advocating for X" attitude.

It's a way for someone to dismiss someone else's legitimate interests because they're not the correct interests (which is to say, those of the person doing the complaining).

I can study military history quite a bit without losing pacifist credentials for doing so, for instance, and a lot of people are fascinated by the more uncomfortable periods of history for any number of reasons. It doesn't means they "idolize" them.

[sabrina 1]

57. Film makers, or theater people might buy some of that stuff.

I bet much of the Nazi material in Schindler's List eg, was pretty authentic, or very good replicas.

Other than that, or for collectors for historical purposes, I can't imagine wanting to own any of that stuff. I just read three books about that period of time and I think what strikes you the most, is how ordinary people can be co-opted into supporting anything their leaders tell them to support. The use of 'patriotism' and 'my country right or wrong' jingoism, seems to lull people into a cult-like state of total complicity.

Three of the books are about women who survived the Nazis, two who were incredibly heroic, both joined the French Resistance, one was German and definitely no hero. But all three books were so well written making you feel you were present in that awful time. And also making you question, 'what would I have done'?

One person interviewed said that after the liberation, it was hard to find a Nazi in Germany. Human beings are very weak, and I hope we are never tested the way so many were at that time.

Ron Wyden's father wrote one of the books I read about a schoolmate of his in Germany, who ended up betraying her own people. He found it hard to believe and to understand as he once had had a huge crush on her before his family managed to leave Germany. She probably caused the deaths of hundreds of Jews by her betrayal. But many others chose to die, rather than do what she did.

I have a feeling it could happen anywhere, after watching how easily the Bush Administration used fear to strip away rights with little or no resistance, and vilification for those who did resist, I now find it harder to judge the German people the way I once did. Not to mention Democrats who will defend policies no free person should be willing to defend even now.

We do not learn from history.
.