Krugman: It's an act of patriotism to call Trump an illegitimate president

[highplainsdem]

Mediaite article on the column:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/paul-krugman-its-an-act-of-patriotism-to-call-trump-an-illegitimate-president/

Link to the NYT column, "With All Due Disrespect":

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/opinion/with-all-due-disrespect.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

But let’s not talk about Mr. Trump’s ravings. Instead, let’s ask whether Mr. Lewis was right to say what he said. Is it O.K., morally and politically, to declare the man about to move into the White House illegitimate?

Yes, it is. In fact, it’s an act of patriotism.

-snip-

Was there even more to it? Did the Trump campaign actively coordinate with a foreign power? Did a cabal within the F.B.I. deliberately slow-walk investigations into that possibility? Are the lurid tales about adventures in Moscow true? We don’t know, although Mr. Trump’s creepy obsequiousness to Vladimir Putin makes it hard to dismiss these allegations. Even given what we do know, however, no previous U.S. president-elect has had less right to the title. So why shouldn’t we question his legitimacy?

And talking frankly about how Mr. Trump gained power isn’t just about truth-telling. It may also help to limit that power.

-snip-

What this means is that Mr. Trump must not be treated with personal deference simply because of the position he has managed to seize. He must not be granted the use of the White House as a bully pulpit. He must not be allowed to cloak himself in the majesty of office. Given what we know about this guy’s character, it’s all too clear that granting him unearned respect will just empower him to behave badly.

And reminding people how he got where he is will be an important tool in preventing him from gaining respect he doesn’t deserve. Remember, saying that the election was tainted isn’t a smear or a wild conspiracy theory; it’s simply the truth.

-snip-

[uponit7771]

1. +1, At this point even the deplorable... AT LEAST.... know somethings not right about this election

... even though they'll not admit the not right favored Benedict Donald.

For now they're calling his actions "trolling the left" or something close...

After a year of this they'll call it something else... they'll never want to admit their vote is fucked up or they have a bad sense of choice in character

[dalton99a]

2. This is a must read.

[Jacob Boehme]

22. Yes..Absolutely a must read.

As Krugman noted.... just three Congress members with conscience enough to stand up for our Country would be enough to deprive tRump of some of his destructive presidential powers.

[Achilleaze]

3. The Russian-Republican Regime of Comrade Casino is ILLEGITIMATE

[Cha]

4. Put that in your turmpipe and suck on it, manchin

[Satch59]

5. Excellent...

Charles Blow has a similar OP ED today...using the word illegitimate...

Watching the news coverage of reporting on the upcoming inauguration...and it's so not right to normalize any of this...such a farce.

[Akamai]

8. Charles Blow has been always excellent on this topic, and also Krugman, Kristoff, Collins, & others.

Charles Blow has absolutely no difficulty in speaking truth to power. Really a tremendous voice against the madness.

[highplainsdem]

14. Agree. Here's a link to that column by Charles Blow:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/opinion/johns-gospel-of-trumps-illegitimacy.html

[Botany]

6. From the article

Yes, it is. In fact, it’s an act of patriotism.

By any reasonable standard, the 2016 election was deeply tainted. It wasn’t just the effects of Russian intervention on Mr. Trump’s behalf; Hillary Clinton would almost surely have won if the F.B.I. hadn’t conveyed the false impression that it had damaging new information about her, just days before the vote. This was grotesque, delegitimizing malfeasance, especially in contrast with the agency’s refusal to discuss the Russia connection.

Was there even more to it? Did the Trump campaign actively coordinate with a foreign power? Did a cabal within the F.B.I. deliberately slow-walk investigations into that possibility? Are the lurid tales about adventures in Moscow true? We don’t know, although Mr. Trump’s creepy obsequiousness to Vladimir Putin makes it hard to dismiss these allegations. Even given what we do know, however, no previous U.S. president-elect has had less right to the title. So why shouldn’t we question his legitimacy?

And talking frankly about how Mr. Trump gained power isn’t just about truth-telling. It may also help to limit that power.

[Akamai]

9. Great points! not just truth-telling but maybe helping to limit that power.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

7. K & R

[2naSalit]

10. K&R

[leanforward]

11. Patriotism

I'm with these gentleman. To me, whatchamacallit (sp), is personally repulsive in appearance, delivery, and what he has said about various individuals, family, and a how to on sexual assault. THEN, along came Comey and the Russian overtly-covertly actions of influence.

I do not know how a good christian Republican can continue to stand with Trump.

With that said, I am a member of the loyal American opposition.

"power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

[Cryptoad]

12. Dont worry abt Trump becoming Prez,,,,

that time has passed.... worry abt him leaving office when ever that time comes..... knowing him, he may refuse to leave office!

[bdamomma]

18. tRump is going by Putins playbook.

tRumps health may be a factor if he continues or not.

[Cryptoad]

21. He looks like a walking dead man ,, now

[bdamomma]

23. you know he may

have a mental breakdown. or meltdown.

[brer cat]

13. Truth to power!

Krugman is a vital voice for the resistance and not one to back away from a fight. I have no doubt that trump will try to silence him, but I can't see him succeeding.

[radalpha]

15. Coup d'etat in progress

Are we seeing a coup d'etat taking place and patterned after Putin's takeover of Russia? Elimination of valid voting by gerrymandering and voter suppression. "Crosscheck" spoiled votes. Selective voting machine errors in democratic counties resulting in unusual numbers of blank and spoiled votes. Disinformation and foreign involvement. Unusual involvement by the FBI in the middle of a contested election. Extensive contacts between Russian actors and Trump's campaign. FBI leaks to R. Giuliani prior to public release. Denigration and suppression of media coverage by the Trump organization. Denigration of the intelligence services. Rapid elimination of multiple governmental officials.

[erronis]

26. Good, and terrible symposis.

We all dither around the edges whining about this incredible deviation from the norm, or about how the vox populi was not even closely matched.

In reality, as you said, there is a coup d'etat happening. It probably started 20+ years ago when the republicans realized their only path to power couldn't be through reason - it had to be through careful/devious planning. Twenty years is plenty of time to insinuate moles into most organizations. Remember the words back in the 80's about first controlling the school boards, then the town/county?

This is not just a grass-roots effort - this is scripted. Koch or Russkis. Take your pick.

[PatrickforO]

16. Do a little experiment with me, please:

Google 'treason' and then click on the word 'Images.' This will give you all the images of treason Google came up with.

The second one is Hillary Clinton.
Numbers 3, 13 and 14 are Obama
Number 10 is Trump
Number 20 are the Republican assholes that drafted and signed the 'warning' letter to Iran
The Turtle is a bit further down

This illustrates how DIVIDED we are as a nation, and folks, sitting here saying the opposition is ALL bigots, racists, homophobes, xenophobes and haters isn't going to get us any further along than it did them when Obama was in power.

Yes, Trump and everyone he's bringing in are odious, horrible people. No argument here, but if it's SO obvious, as it is to most of us, then why did the opposition get so many votes - I'm talking local, state and US Congress - they PICKED UP SEATS and now have more majorities than they did before the election. WHY????

Don't tell me, 'oh, it's because they're ignorant, stupid, haters, racists, etc.' because my rejoinder to you is yes, but it has happened. So now what will we do?

First, it's gonna be a LONG GAME. The right wingnuts started getting engaged in the local Republican party in the mid-1980s. They weren't powerful enough to actually send wingnuts to DC en masse until around 2010. So that's 25 years of grass roots effort THAT WE DIDN'T MATCH.

Next, how do we get OUR word out in competition with the corporate owned media, as well as the Fox noise machine (Fox was actually sued for knowingly lying and still calling it news, and Fox WON - did you know? So they can lie during their broadcasts with impunity and not worry about those pesky legal consequences)?

We HAVE to change our dialog, people. Making fun of the opposition doesn't help, though I know it feels good. But it doesn't help. I've recently read what I believe to be a brilliant essay about what we can and should be doing to bring these Trump independents back into the fold. Oh, we're not gonna get that 20% that really ARE right wing nuts, but we need to get the sane people to at least listen.

Here's the link - it is an essay by Rabbi Michael Lerner that I think hits it right on the head in terms of what we need to do with new messaging: http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/psychopathology-in-the-2016-election-3

Please read it, and then join one of more of the huge numbers of old and new Dems that are doing good things at the local and state levels.

[SunSeeker]

25. Coddling the right wing has only enabled them. Fuck that. I'm done with it.

Of course we need to get involved at the local level. But calling out Trump and local involvement is not an either-or proposition. We can do both.

[bdamomma]

17. K&R

[UCmeNdc]

19. To ignore illegal actions is cowardly and promotes more illegal actions.

To allow illegal elections is unpatriotic and undermines the whole system.

[Gothmog]

20. I agree with Prof. Krugman

[SunSeeker]

24. I agree. Time to make a stand!

[FreeStateDemocrat]

27. Far too few real journalist like Mr. Krugman still have a voice. Getting down to a single candle to

hold back the night.

[highplainsdem]

28. Krugman's a treasure.

[NastyRiffraff]

29. Now we're being told that we must "respect the office"

I've never understood the concept. I mean, "the office" doesn't care whether we respect it or not. Sure, I get that the office of the presidency is a place of power and influence. But the OCCUPIER of the office is who we're talking about. I respect Barak Obama, deeply. I do NOT respect the pile of shit in the shape of a man who is about to take the office. And I never will.

[Luka Boyd]

30. Its clear this election was comprimised to some degree

The only way to make it legitimate is to redo it. Hand counted paper ballots only. So what if it takes 6 months to count. If Trump is so sure that the people are behind him and the election was legit then he should win again no problem, right? And if he does then he is legitimate president

[GP6971]

32. So who would be the president

while the recount is done? I'm not sure this an answer to that question.

[calimary]

34. Welcome to DU, Luka Boyd!

Now that's an interesting argument. If he's so legit, let's see if he wins a do-over.

Too bad it won't work that way. It should. But that's just me.

[ReRe]

35. 2 Posts?

Welcome Luka. You've been reading my old posts haven't you? I've been saying the same thing for years. Who gives a shite how long it takes to count the votes? A genuine paper trail is what we need going forward.

[Hekate]

31. KnR

[humbled_opinion]

33. Excellent points + added bonus

Every time a Democratic politician or constituent calls him illegitimate, he lashes out showing us just how unhinged he is, which makes more people reflexively think of him as illegitimate. Eventually, this could wear him down to the point where he simply resigns in disgrace.

[dlk]

36. If The Situation Were Reversed...

We should all take a moment to reflect just exactly Republicans would be doing at this point in time if the situation were reversed with the discovery of credible evidence that a hostile foreign power manipulated the results of a presidential election. Also, what would the MSM be doing instead?