***WARNING*** FUD MEME: "... America interfered with other nations elections too ... "

[uponit7771]

Anyone notice this come up MULTIPLE times this week?

Be careful of the false bars and distractions

"we interfered with other nations elections"
- we SHOULD NOT accept the interference in ours

"There's no proof it helped Clinton"

- False bar, there's proof there's interference from an outside actor, that's enough for a revote ... PERIOD.

FAUX news mentioned it and in the congressional hearing (or whatever that was this week) and I think it was said twice during the hearing as if its a justification for America accepting our elections being interfered with by Russia.

This also is more than just Russia interfering, this is Russia gaining and maintaining access to state and local electoral boards

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028439094

AND

The Russians actively campaigning for McPootin by hacking the DNC systems after McPootin invited the hacking during a presser.

NONE ... NONE of that means we should ACCEPT the Russians interfering with our elections or accept

America put a man on the moon before I was born... we can have a damn revote .....that aint rocket science ...

fuck all the dumb shit

Your take?

tia

[GoCubsGo]

1. Yes, I noticed this, as well.

I also have been noticing an awful lot of "How come no Democrats blahblahblahblahblah?" Much of it coming from people with low post counts who I have never seen before. Nothing but attempts to discourage Democrats from keeping up the fight. They want us to just roll over and give up. Sorry. Not playing that game.

[uponit7771]

2. TWICE TODAY !!! TWICE !!

[TheBlackAdder]

20. We interfered in some other country's politics, and traitors in those countries went along with it!

.


Yes, the USA worked to overthrow the legitimate Iranian government and governments in Latin America.


The perversion is that there were traitorous country folk who went along with the USA actions...

just like how many in the GOP, including former anti-Soviets and anti-Putin people, have been flipped.



So when some jerk mentions the USA actions, which are nothing to be super proud of, they fail to see that the real parallel is that the GOP and Trump types are no different than the Shah of Iran's supporters...except instead of being beholden to the USA, they are beholden to Mother Russia.

.

[uponit7771]

21. Putin is a white nationalist, the white supremacist in the US relate to that and that's not good for

... country with racial diversity like ours.

[Generic Brad]

3. This sounds like something a Russian troll would say

Native Trumpers are not that self aware or cognizant of actual history.

[uponit7771]

4. Yeap, read it twice today here and heard it multiple times on FAUX news and one time on another

... mixed political board.

FUD is out on this meme.

DU is the most popular sole political forum on the internets relative to hits (no wonder we were hacked) so its no wonder why they'd hit this joint first with that meme.

[Generic Brad]

14. Plus they are calling those who disagree with them "Snowflakes"

The "Snowflake" name calling feels more alt-right than Russian troll though.

[uponit7771]

15. Whoa... that should be tagged RWTP here... yeah, snowflake is what cons are using on mixed forums

... to mean something.

The other thing you bring up is Putin is a white nationalist too... so no wonder Benedict Donald's cabinet is full of white nationalist.

Unless dem MoC start doing something strange we're fucked... we see Putin's prints all over this election in so many ways.

[KittyWampus]

39. someone on Dailykos called me "Snowflake". I'd love to hear more about this if anyone knows..

[Volaris]

23. Yeah and fuck them. They bitch that we need bathrooms to be 'safe spaces'.

But clearly, if they don't have the ENTIRE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, the country isn't 'safe' for them and their backwards ass ideas.

Well no shit. Sorry, snowflakes but Progress is not for the timid. Like the evolution their side doesn't believe in, the weak die. Their times coming. I can't wait=)

[emulatorloo]

5. People who say that don't give a shit about fair elections.

As you say, it is a bullshit justification to get us to believe the hacking by a foreign government is no big deal.

[uponit7771]

7. +1, its also an indicator that FUD wants to affect opinion on the matter seeing this is some messed

... up stuff with any election.

I'd think they'd come up with something better... I started hearing it before the intel breafing... they knew what was coming

[emulatorloo]

10. Yes, heard it here on Thursday. Pro-Trump/Pro-Putin right-wing talking points with a candy-coating

of "progressive" language.

[uponit7771]

13. yes, that's what I read too !!!! Basically "we should accept the election and fuck Trump" with a LPC

... member.

Yeap, no wonder DU was hacked

[triron]

6. Heard this mentioned on either CNN or MSNBC

and thought wtf!

[Cha]

8. President Obama didn't.. Hillary didn't. Russia interfered

with our Democracy.

If they want to accept that then I suggest they Proceed.

Resistance!

[uponit7771]

9. Amen, there's no way this meme should be pushed on a progressive forum

[Cha]

11. Yeah, it's the neener neener neener defense of the dictator putin.

[LaydeeBug]

12. k n r

[Solly Mack]

16. It's hypocrisy to be against interfering with elections in other countries

but cheer the same thing happening in America. Or attempt to excuse it.

So, either people saying it are for interfering in elections of other countries, so they are OK with it happening here.

Or...they are hypocrites whose principles are not worth the breath it takes to communicate them.

Either way, both groups are wrong.



It's not OK to interfere in the elections of other countries. Period.

The very fact that the election was interfered with is enough to call the election results into question.

[uponit7771]

18. +1, yes... you have a point... its a soft admission that the election here was interfered with and

... we shouldn't accept the results

[Solly Mack]

45. I don't think the intel will change anything.

No do-over of any kind.

Trump will be president whether I call him that or not. And I'll continue to call him anything but, unless done so with sarcasm.

He might get impeached with the Russian taint being the reason they give, and Pence moves up.

They might also decide Pence is just as tainted. If Trump is impeached, we'll know Pence's fate by who he picks as VP.

But then again, no impeachment, no nothing, and Trump/Pence/GOP together destroy the country for the next four years.

I think that more likely.

Bush did not win in 2000. Didn't change anything. Nothing was done to make sure things like that never happen again.

Things got worse, actually. Voter suppression got worse over the intervening years.

Our democracy is only strong when everyone defends it. Sad truth is not all Americans, especially some in positions of power, care enough to defend it. They want to turn it into something else. Some went along to get along.

We were a weakened nation already. Selection 2000 weakened us. Torture and the lack of prosecutions weakened us. The attacks on civil liberties weakened us. We showed the world just how vulnerable we are, and what we would accept as a nation.

Unfortunately, the Obama years did nothing to change the hearts and minds of those who would cause harm to America and its people. Those people have been biding their time. I'm not even talking Russia or ISIS, I'm talking our fellow Americans, with their greed and their perversion of what America should be, who have caused harm to our democracy. Our biggest threats have always been internal.


I'm sorry to be a downer.

[malaise]

17. I mentioned this

more than once.
I know it's hard to take and I too hate Groper Don the Con - but there are no saints among world powers - what's good for the goose is good for the gander. You cannot forget that HRC campaigned against Putin.
It is still treason by the Con.

[uponit7771]

19. Its not just you but this is a common meme and its a poor one for ACCEPTING the results of an ....

... interfered election.

That means democracy doesn't have the value we say it does or that people place on it.

We do NOT have to take that to mean we should accept the results

[Bradical79]

22. It's some of the same people

Paul Manafort, for example, advised multiple U.S. presidents AND foreign dictators who undermined Democracy around the world. It's a continuation of right wing policy, not some "ironic comeuppance". People happy about the U.S. "getting what they deserve" are idiots.

[JHan]

24. Hearing Republicans say it though ... is really precious.

[treestar]

25. Especially if it was years ago

LOL, what is "McPutin" based on?

[uponit7771]

33. So true.. to use that as a current justification is bunk

Mcputin is Trump small

[treestar]

41. lol good one!

[ck4829]

26. K&R. I guess in Trump/Putinland, two wrongs DO make a right

Our government has meddled in the affairs of other countries, has gotten rid of fair leaders and helped to replace them with dictators. It was wrong and morally reprehensible.

It is still wrong and morally reprehensible when Russia does it here.

These people need to get out of this either/or thinking.

The US supported contras and death squads too, another fact I have no problem admitting. Will that make it OK for Putin to support creating death squads and polonium poisoners here as well?

[mythology]

27. You do realize the Constitution provides for no revote right?

So comparing it to the mission to put a man on the moon is utterly irrelevant. It looks more than a little silly as a comparison.

If the notion of another country "interfering" in our politics is such a bother, how do you so blithely disregard our actions in other countries? If one is bad, and it is, then both are bad. But much like we don't torture because it's morally wrong (and doesn't work), part of why we don't is that it gives us the moral standing to say torture is wrong. It's not saying that we "deserve" it, but that it's hard to claim it's inherently morally wrong with "interfering" in our election, when not mentioning our own issues there.

I also think that it does matter that we are clear in terms of what happened. Russia didn't hack voting machines, they didn't take people off of voter rolls. They released some emails that looked bad. There wasn't much of an impact based on polling. Clinton's polls dropped because of the second Comey announcement. If she hadn't used that stupid email server, she would be president now. You can't say that about the Russian leaks. To me that matters.

I also think it looks really silly to claim that Trump calling for Russia to hack the Clinton email server is a sign of coordination. That would require an enormous amount of stupidity to make such a public announcement.

[yallerdawg]

29. We have a way of removing the president. We have that Constitutional remedy!

Even after everyone acknowledged the Russians and WikiLeaks were interfering and dumping stolen documents and private conversations well before Election Day, Republican voters didn't care - even today they don't care!

Just like most Democrats - even today! - never gave a shit about the rightwing spin up about any email servers!

Hillary isn't stupid, either.

[The Wielding Truth]

28. Don't we interfere to promote democracy or to make the world safe for democracy?

Isn't that the difference? Other counties may come after us to destroy our power by and for the people. That is the essence of our American way.

If that in any way, is taken from us we will cease to be the country that all public officials have sworn to protect according to our Constitution.

If Trump or any Republican makes laws which curtail our rights they have broken their oath of office and IMO must be removed from their job in the public's interest. If any foreign government corrupts our functioning democracy they are to be met with an invasion defense to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. We must keep our basic democratic rights.

[truebluegreen]

44. No. We don't.

We interfere to make the world safe for our corporations, or what used to be ours.

Learn our history. Start with Iran in 1953: our CIA ousted a democratically-elected president who wanted his country's oil to benefit his countrymen. We installed the brutal Shah instead. Do you wonder Iran hates and distrusts us?

Guatemala in 1954. Chile in 1973. How democratically did those turn out? How safe? How about Iraq?

[The Wielding Truth]

47. That is certainly a corruption of the Constitution. WWI, WWII as well as

the Korean and cold wars were the workings of the mandate to promote and secure the safety of the growth of democracy.
Also,we rose our support for the protection of the Serbian people, the Arab Spring rebels. It is our way to assist any peoples wishing to attain freedom that a well educated and open democracy can provide.

When we enter an unjust war, as we have time and time again, it is most likely under the guise and betrayal of "supporting democracy" or it is an irrational rush to steal resources under our corrupt leadership.

That is not who we are to be. I have seen this corruption and thuggery and I am aware of our greedy and self serving past and the lineup of robber barons setting up to do that and more are back again. Yet, I say that we have the responsibility to follow the correct path and push the true meaning of what it is to live as and be an American.

It's time to shout our message to all the jokers and small minded businessmen in charge and tell them that we are not having it.

That this is not who we are or will be.

[truebluegreen]

48. I fear you are naive.

There's nothing in our constitution about supporting democracy everywhere. In fact, the Founders wanted us to avoid all foreign entanglements and not to have a standing army at all (that is in the constitution), let alone using it all over the world.

Our wars have been all about us promoting and protecting our own power. We got in to WW1 very late but in time to influence the post-war world. WWII was to stop expansionist Japan and Germany. The Cold War, and its proxy wars including Korea and Vietnam--which you omitted--were all about the domino theory and resisting Soviet hegemony. Our actions in Iraq and the so-called Arab Spring were all about oil. Even Syria, which doesn't have much oil, nevertheless straddles the route for a proposed pipeline desired by the US and our Saudi allies, but opposed by Assad and his Russian allies (pipeline would undercut Russia as big supplier to Europe). So we push for regime change in Syria.

I don't care how much propaganda we put out, our motives are not about spreading democracy.

[mcar]

30. K&R

[dubyadiprecession]

31. Uh OK, since we may have interfered in other nations elections...

Russia please hack us to death to teach us a lesson.

[uponit7771]

34. lol. Right!!! They invite Russia

[Fla Dem]

32. Meet the Press sunday morning, Rick Santelli obviousioly got the playbook.

Almost got into a shouting match with Andrea Mitchell over that meme. One of the few times I've seen Andrea Mitchell actually take a position on anything.

[yurbud]

35. fud? bar? explain the new jargon please.

[uponit7771]

36. False bars are part of false dichotomy

[tblue37]

37. What does FUD mean? nt

[uponit7771]

38. Fear Uncertainty Doubt... Something Putin spreads good and fast through the internet

[yurbud]

40. those two things are not the same. The second is debatable, the first aint.

[uponit7771]

43. .... and neither are a justification for accepting the results of America's elections being interfer

... interefered with at all.

[yurbud]

46. correct. The first should make us pay more attention to our gov't doing it in the future and put a

stop to it.

It was and is being done based on the assumption that we are and always will be the world's sole superpower.

History hasn't worked like that ever, in the last couple of centuries, the life expectancy of empires has gotten shorter and shorter.

[Generator]

42. Two wrongs don't make a right

Republicons always think so though. They main thing I get from the other side is oh-Clinton did this-if you point out something Trump or his lackeys have done. Even though what they claim Clinton did is usually false- THAT's NOT THE POINT. It remains wrong no matter what someone else did. They literally would say-so Clinton murdered people-(no proof) if PROOF came out that Trump murdered someone. And I well aware our CIA is hardly innocent of shit for the last 60 years.