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SHRED

(28,136 posts)
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:19 AM Dec 2016

I think Obama confused a "peaceful transition of power"...

...with "normalization".

These are unprecedented times and call for unprecedented action.

I wish he'd "speak truth to power". Spell out his concerns. Detail tRump's cabinet picks and their backgrounds. Warn the American people. Raise Hell about Russia. Lay out a step by step resistance plan.
I know that's not his style. Instead we get, "I could win another election against tRump". WTH?

I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I think Obama confused a "peaceful transition of power"... (Original Post) SHRED Dec 2016 OP
that isn't his role BainsBane Dec 2016 #1
I didn't know we had "roles" considering what's coming SHRED Dec 2016 #2
The Constution defines the president's role BainsBane Dec 2016 #4
Maybe because Bernie has been outspoken against Trump... Docreed2003 Dec 2016 #27
Some have always expected Pres Obama to act as a dictator mcar Dec 2016 #31
I agree. I love POTUS but business as usual is not how you deal with AmericanActivist Dec 2016 #3
Transfer of power ought to be halted We don't have tRump's taxes we don't know AmericanActivist Dec 2016 #5
That's ridiculous BainsBane Dec 2016 #8
I'm a bit irrational tonight SHRED Dec 2016 #9
It is horrifying BainsBane Dec 2016 #12
This is not me not dealing with election results. You don't know me. And with all due respect AmericanActivist Dec 2016 #10
And for the record I am advocating people I power seriously defend the AmericanActivist Dec 2016 #11
You think Trump is a threat BainsBane Dec 2016 #13
Are you suggesting we delay Trump's becoming President for six months ... spin Dec 2016 #16
Good luck with your approach and btw 2020 "election" is irrelevant because the AmericanActivist Dec 2016 #19
You ask me to prove that Trump's election was legit. ... spin Dec 2016 #21
He is still POTUS Phoenix61 Dec 2016 #6
If true, president obama said he would not say anything for six months to a year yeoman6987 Dec 2016 #23
'We'll see' huh? Kingofalldems Dec 2016 #24
Oh, yeoman6987. Did you get that meme from Kennedy on Fox news? Kingofalldems Dec 2016 #26
And Newt Gingrich thinks he's desperately trying to save his legacy BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #7
he wants to be their friend Skittles Dec 2016 #14
PBO has about three weeks left canetoad Dec 2016 #15
Obama spoke his concerns in last few weeks of GE, but ignorant white wingers didn't care. Hoyt Dec 2016 #17
Like I said... SHRED Dec 2016 #18
Actually your response seems rational it's tRump who is insane and the AmericanActivist Dec 2016 #20
He will - just you wait and see malaise Dec 2016 #22
AMEN!!!! LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #25
"Normalization" of the Republicans has been the order of the day for 8 years vi5 Dec 2016 #28
16 years. LisaM Dec 2016 #30
Well, I was more referring to President Obama's approach.... vi5 Dec 2016 #32
That is not what the outgoing President should be doing. frankieallen Dec 2016 #29

BainsBane

(53,037 posts)
1. that isn't his role
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:26 AM
Dec 2016

He has authorized an investigation of the Russia hacks and will release a declassified version to the public before he leaves office. It is not appropriate for him to attack Trump's cabinet picks or do the other things you want. There are plenty of others who can, including Bernie. Where is he on this? I've heard a great deal of criticism about Democrats from him. Is he doing anything about Trump?

BainsBane

(53,037 posts)
4. The Constution defines the president's role
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:32 AM
Dec 2016

As does precedent.

Why is it that you expect the one person who can't appropriately speak out on Trump's cabinet picks to do so and ignore those who can? You completely ignored my question about Bernie. Why does he get a pass?

Docreed2003

(16,868 posts)
27. Maybe because Bernie has been outspoken against Trump...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:53 AM
Dec 2016

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie are two lone voices in the Senate right now. Bernie has been extremely critical of Trump if you follow his press statements and tweets. (FYI I'm not picking a fight here...I agree completely with your point that what the OP is suggesting is not appropriate for President Obama to address, I'm just addressing the Bernie question). Frankly I'd love to see MORE democrats in positions of leadership that do have the voice to speak out to do so. Some are, and some aren't being covered. At the end of the day, much of the opposition will fall to us. We have to lead the opposition in ways that we can in our daily and local lives. Through that opposition, we need to hold our leadership accountable. If they aren't willing to fight for us, then we find people who will.

mcar

(42,340 posts)
31. Some have always expected Pres Obama to act as a dictator
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:00 AM
Dec 2016

It amazes me how many people voted for the man without any real understanding of who he is and what he stands for - and what the Constitution, precedent and tradition allow.

AmericanActivist

(1,019 posts)
5. Transfer of power ought to be halted We don't have tRump's taxes we don't know
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:35 AM
Dec 2016

The extent of his foreign ties or how they threaten US interests and Americans We don't yet have details regarding Russian interference we only know that they did intentionally interfere with the purpose of electing tRump. The FBI's political role is also still unresolved. Everything is UNPRECEDENTED and ought to be dealt with using prudence, extreme caution, and putting the defense of USA first.

BainsBane

(53,037 posts)
8. That's ridiculous
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:41 AM
Dec 2016

You don't get to overturn democracy because you think Trump may be illegitimate or a threat to democracy.

You are advocating the end of constitutional rule in this country.

If something serious is later discovered, he can be impeached. But to call for what amounts to a coup because you can't deal with the election results is incredibly irresponsible.

Trump will be president. We need to organize around stopping him from selling off and privatizing everything, insist he be held accountable, etc.... But this kind of crap just undermines Democrats' moral authority.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
9. I'm a bit irrational tonight
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:43 AM
Dec 2016

I'm just stunned when I consider him and his minions at the levers of power.

BainsBane

(53,037 posts)
12. It is horrifying
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:48 AM
Dec 2016

Beyond belief. I'm with you there. And we need to organize so he doesn't roll over us. We need to stay informed on his legislative agenda and pressure our elected Reps to take positions we want, to oppose people like Sessions, etc...

I don't disagree with your outrage, just how to channel it.

AmericanActivist

(1,019 posts)
10. This is not me not dealing with election results. You don't know me. And with all due respect
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:43 AM
Dec 2016

If you think it's ridiculous yay for you. You're entitled to your own opinion. Thanks for sharing.

AmericanActivist

(1,019 posts)
11. And for the record I am advocating people I power seriously defend the
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:45 AM
Dec 2016

US Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, not as you say the end to it. You completely misunderstand.

BainsBane

(53,037 posts)
13. You think Trump is a threat
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:51 AM
Dec 2016

I do too. He was, however, elected. He can't be stopped from assuming office without violating the constitution. No way is Obama going to go down as a president who refused to leave when his term expired, who interfered with the transfer of power. And how could he do it anyway? Only with the military, which would refuse.

spin

(17,493 posts)
16. Are you suggesting we delay Trump's becoming President for six months ...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 03:07 AM
Dec 2016

or possibly a year?

Who exactly would have the power to halt his inauguration under the Constitution? Would Obama remain our President while the issues you mentioned were being resolved? Can you imagine the backlash? Trump voters would probably NEVER vote for a Democrat again.

Maybe we should simply declare Hillary the winner of the election but who is "we" and where are "we" granted that power?

There is no requirement for a Presidential candidate to have to reveal his taxes. Perhaps there should be and maybe we could pass legislation that would make it a requirement for future Presidential candidates.

Putin probably did hack the DNC's computers and may have provided information to Wikileaks. Comey definitely was out of line. Should we invalidate the election if this ithe Russian hacking is proven beyond a reasonable doubt? What do we do then? Hold another election next year?

I fear we are stuck with Trump. The recount idea was a flop as was the attempt to get the electors to change their votes.

If he steps too far out of line we can always try to impeach him. In my opinion at this point that is the only legal way to remove Trump from office in the next four years. Of course we may be able to vote him out in 2020.

AmericanActivist

(1,019 posts)
19. Good luck with your approach and btw 2020 "election" is irrelevant because the
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 03:52 AM
Dec 2016

Election/Voting system is broken. No guarantee your vote will matter at all since 2016 votes cannot be verified.

You're entitled to your opinions. I don't have all the answers. I know if tRump,isn't stopped before Jan 20th he won't be stopped at all. And if our election system isn't fixed now it won't matter in 2018 or 2020. Apparently you see it differently. In my opinion anyone willing to accept tRump or normalize him or treat him as legit, viable Pres-elect is part of the problem.

If you think he's legit, prove it. You can't btw cause he votes aren't verifiable. The electronic system is not secure it can be hacked and 17 US Intel agencies say Russia interfered intentionally to elect tRump.

This is a completely UNPRECEDENTED situation in USA. How to deal with it? Good question. Letting tRump take power when he already is abusing power, demonstrates he's mentally unfit, and says laws don't apply to him while appointing people who clearly intend to destroy American institutions is, imho, the WRONG approach.

spin

(17,493 posts)
21. You ask me to prove that Trump's election was legit. ...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 05:08 AM
Dec 2016

as it is possible to hack our electronic voting machines.

That is well above my pay grade. I don't have the authority, the tools or the skills to determine that. That would be largely up to the intelligence agencies of our government and the FBI.

To the best of my knowledge no one has found any proof of such hacking of our voting machines. Of course if there is proof positive of such activity the results of the election would be questionable and perhaps should be voided. in my opinion suspicion that it could have happened is nowhere near the evidence that would be required to overturn the election.

It does appear the Russians hacked the DNC computers and possibly provided info on John Podesta's email to WikiLeaks. Obviously this is way out of line but apparently the information revealed was accurate. For example several people at the DNC resigned from their jobs including Debbie Wasserman Schultz.


Following the release by Wikileaks of a collection of emails indicating that Schultz and other members of the DNC staff showed bias against the presidential campaign of Senator Bernie Sanders in favor of Hillary Clinton's campaign,[2] Wasserman Schultz resigned her position as chairperson of the Democratic National Committee after the 2016 Democratic National Convention.[3] She was subsequently appointed honorary chair of the Clinton campaign's "50 state program".[73]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Wasserman_Schultz


The release of Podesta's email obviously hurt Hillary but there doesn't seem to be any solid proof that they were false or fictional.

I totally despise any foreign nations interfering in our elections and have the same feelings about our interfering in the elections of other nations. Still I don't think we can overturn the election because DNC and Podesta's email were released to the voters.

In my opinion we better have damn good reason to overturn the results of the latest Presdential election. It definitely would create a constitutional crisis and most likely a severe backlash against the Democratic Party. It might even precipitate violence and possibly cause some states to consider seceding from the Union.

As I said in my opinion the best approach is to impeach Trump if and when he steps too far over the line. If that proves impossible than work to vote him out if office in 2020. However I agree that we are both entitled to our own opinions.

In passing we do live in interesting times.


Phoenix61

(17,006 posts)
6. He is still POTUS
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:38 AM
Dec 2016

It would be counterproductive for him to say anything, publicly, now. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say when he is no longer POTUS.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
23. If true, president obama said he would not say anything for six months to a year
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 07:42 AM
Dec 2016

He said he appreciated president bush keeping quiet during his tenure. We'll see.

BeyondGeography

(39,377 posts)
7. And Newt Gingrich thinks he's desperately trying to save his legacy
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:40 AM
Dec 2016

Last edited Tue Dec 27, 2016, 03:20 AM - Edit history (1)

by abstaining on the UN settlement vote, banning oil and gas drilling in the Arctic and calling for a select committee to look into Russian hacking among other things. While you say, "Thanks, Obama." Sounds like his entire presidency right there in terms of how two sides view it.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
17. Obama spoke his concerns in last few weeks of GE, but ignorant white wingers didn't care.
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 03:07 AM
Dec 2016

They won't now. I do hope Obama stays engaged, but tradition indicates he won't criticize new prez for awhile.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
18. Like I said...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 03:36 AM
Dec 2016

...forgive me but tonight it just hit me hard again who is going to run our Executive Branch of government soon.

I'm not being rational I know.

AmericanActivist

(1,019 posts)
20. Actually your response seems rational it's tRump who is insane and the
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 04:01 AM
Dec 2016

gaslighting and normalization is insane worse than GWB/Cheney.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
28. "Normalization" of the Republicans has been the order of the day for 8 years
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:56 AM
Dec 2016

Nothing about what they did to our current president was "normal". But by treating it as such and being so calm about it, and still operating as though he were living in the days of Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather in the media, and with Tip and Ronnie going out for beers at the end of the day, he in effect normalized the Republicans treasonous behavior.

And unfortunately for President Obama and for all of us, his legacy and whatever accomplishments he was able to muster through these obstructionist assholes will be rendered non-existent.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
32. Well, I was more referring to President Obama's approach....
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:38 AM
Dec 2016

...but yes, the Democrats in Congress caved and internalized their talking points almost as much. But they could at least say that they were out of power. President Obama did this even when we had control of Congress.

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
29. That is not what the outgoing President should be doing.
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:51 AM
Dec 2016

There are plenty of others for that, plus RWers won't listen to him anyway, what good would it do?

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