General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCome 2018, driver licenses from nine states wont be accepted as IDs at the airport
Signs have already begun to pop up at airports across the country: If you live in nine particular states and are counting on your driver license to get you through security, youll soon be left grounded.
Thanks to a federal law passed in 2005, residents of Kentucky, Maine, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Washington will need another form of identification to present to the Transportation Security Administration at airports effective Jan. 22, 2018.
The REAL ID act, which was passed with bipartisan support, requires certain security measures to be taken, including a broadened measure of basic information included on ID cards, a common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements and anti-fraud measures for the people issuing IDs.
While the law does not compel states to change their process or standards for ID cards, it does require that federal organizations reject any IDs from non-compliant states, which would include domestic air travel.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/nation-world/national/article122744239.html
raccoon
(31,111 posts)I've got a passport, but I think this is ridiculous.
TexasTowelie
(112,252 posts)I don't have a passport, but I don't expect to be flying anywhere either. It's been about 15 years since I last flew for a business trip to Florida.
greymattermom
(5,754 posts)and some of those states required id to vote?
So, the id required for id to vote won't be good enough to fly.
Will anyone in those states be able to vote?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Freddie
(9,268 posts)PA actually passed a law in 2011 (sponsored by Republicans, when asswipe Corbett was Gov) mandating non-cooperation with the law, stating objections to a "national ID database" and the costs involved. So now I have to spend $150+ on a passport to visit my son in Florida!
Callmecrazy
(3,065 posts)dumbcat
(2,120 posts)They are $110 for a renewal, plus the passport photo and the postage to the Dept of State address. I just did mine this month.
Callmecrazy
(3,065 posts)I got mine ten years ago and that's what I paid.
And by the way, according to federal law, you are not required to present ID to board a plane. Check the Code of Federal Regulations for commercial aviation. Available online.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)if you fly.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)will you need a passport for return flight to Florida? I think everyone should just get a passport too.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)Also, this OP is about flying, so if you can afford to fly you certainly can afford a passport.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)You shouldn't need a passport to fly in your own country.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)have to get a passport. Everyone should have one anyway, as why would you want to negate the option of travel outside the US. You can get a United States Passport Card, which is only good in Bermuda, Canada, Mexico and some Caribbean countries, but is valid for domestic air travel inside the United States for only 30 USD.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)Long ago, I could fly to Cosumel Mexico, Dominican Republic, USVI etc with a picture ID and birth certificate, no passport. I've never had one. Shouldn't need one for travel in US.
I'll work on boycotting those states.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)You're wrong.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)It is, as a bottom line, a security thing. If these states want to opt out, then their ID's are not up to par security wise, so then, yes, you want to fly, sorry, you have to get an ID that complies.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And people without them will have to order birth certificates, the cost of which varies by state.
https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/passports/FeeChart/Passport%20Fees%20Chart_TSG%20March2016.pdf
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)it is RealID compliant
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)A passport card is valid only for travel by land and by sea to the following locations: Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)3.Prepare for the checkpoint: If you are concerned that your state-issued drivers license or photo ID may not be accepted by TSA
beginning January 22, 2018, apply for an alternative identification document well ahead of your planned travel dates. Ensure you have
an acceptable ID and boarding pass ready before arriving at the airport. Refer to the current list of acceptable IDs below or at
tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification:
Drivers licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent) in accordance with REAL
ID enforcement schedule described above.
U.S. passport
U.S. passport card
DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
U.S. military ID (active duty or retired military and their dependents, and DoD civilians)
Permanent resident card
Border crossing card
DHS-designated enhanced drivers license
Airline or airport-issued ID (if issued under a TSA-approved security plan)
Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID
HSPD-12 PIV card
Foreign government-issued passport
Canadian provincial drivers license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card
Transportation worker identification credential
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Card (I-766)
http://ttr.sandia.gov/forms/acceptableformsofidentification.pdf
REAL ID Act
List of Acceptable Forms of Identification
The following information is extracted from REAL ID Act of 2005 Implementation: An Interagency
Security Committee Guide. It is intended to provide options for consideration regarding
acceptable forms of identification. For access to Sandia-controlled premises, DOE is the authority
for determining which identification documents are acceptable, and not all of the documents
below may necessarily be approved by DOE. This list is neither authoritative nor exhaustive and is
subject to change at any time in accordance with DOE direction.
1) Federally-issued Identification
a. U.S. Passport
b. U.S. Passport Card
c. PIV or Federally-issued Personal Identification Verification Interoperable (PIV-I)
Cards
d. Drivers License issued by the U.S. Department of State
e. Border Crossing Card (Form DSP-150)
f. DHS Trusted Traveler Cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
g. U.S. Military ID (all members of the U.S. Armed Forces [including retirees and
dependent ID card holders]) and veterans.
h. Veterans Health Identification Card issued by the U. S. Department of Veterans
Affairs
i. U.S. Permanent Resident Card (Form I-551)
j. U.S. Certificate of Naturalization or Certificate of Citizenship (Form N-550)
k. Employment Authorization Document issued by DHS (Form I-766)
l. U.S. Refugee Travel Document or other travel document or evidence of immigration
status issued by DHS containing a photograph (Permit to Re-enter Form I-327 and
Refugee Travel Document Form I-571)
m. Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC)
n. Merchant Mariner Card issued by DHS/United States Coast Guard (USCG)
snip
https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/information/card.html
Yes, the passport card has a vicinity-read radio frequency identification (RFID) chip. The RFID technology used in the passport card enables a unique number in the card to be read at a distance by an authorized U.S. Customs and Border Protection reader mounted alongside the traffic lane.
The chip contains no biographic data. It has a unique number linking the card to a secure database maintained by Department of Homeland Security and Department of State.
Even though the chip contains no biographical data, the passport card comes with a sleeve that prevents the unique number from being read when the card is not in use.
snip
here is the Real ID Act itself
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/real-id-act-text.pdf
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)in exactly the same way -- that is, to mean what it says.
http://flyingwithfish.boardingarea.com/2013/04/20/the-u-s-passport-card-identification-anomaly/
The U.S. Passport Card Identification Anomaly
April 20, 2013 by flyingfish 24 Comments
Today marks the tenth time I have used my United States Passport Card as identification while flying a domestic flight rather than my drivers license since I received it this past February. Today also marks the fourth time a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Transportation Security Officer (TSO) checking identification and board documents has looked up at me and told me they needed a valid form of government issued identification, such as a drivers license or
wait for it
a passport.
The U.S. Passport Card, like a conventional passport, is issued by the United States Department of State for international travel, although it has limitations. The U.S. Passport card is Valid only for international land and sea travel between United States, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda, however it is a valid U.S. government issued piece of identification for all domestic purposes
after all it proves my identity and citizenship as a United States Passport.
The TSA TSO who first refused my U.S. Passport Card was at Los Angeles International Airport, who told me he could not accept it, as U.S. Passport Cards are valid for land and sea travel only. That said, I was traveling from Los Angeles to New York, a domestic flight where a passport is not required and proof of citizenship isnt required. After a brief back and forth the TSO asked his supervisor to look at the Passport Card and it was accepted as valid identification.
The second time my passport card was refused was at Honolulu International Airport, and Id almost give the TSO a pass on this. The TSO told me she had never seen one before, which is understandable due to Hawaiis geographic location. The statistical number of Passport Card issued in Hawaii is probably lower than anywhere else in the United States.
The third issue with a TSO no initially accepting my U.S. Passport Card was at New Yorks JFK Airport Terminal 3, where I have used it more than anywhere else. The TSO informed me that the identification looked fake. Hed never heard of a Passport Card or seen one. This TSO summoned over his supervisor because he wanted to have the police get involved over the use of a fake Federally issued identification. Obviously that never happened, the Supervisor informed him that U.S. Passport Cards were valid and a legitimate form of identification.
SNIP
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)approaches, I am sure the TSA training will be better, if it is not already.
The simpler thing is for the 9 states to get their cards in line with the other 41. Some of the 9 have options to get an enhanced ID/DL, so there's that too. The basic underpinnings of a lot of the federalism and state-centric things (the EC for one) in the US constitutional government's apparatus are being exposed as shopworn and open for abuse and gaming of the system by a tyranny of a united minority. If you think its bad now, wait until 4 to 8 years of Rethug dominance (Real ID was bi-partisan, btw) of the vast majority of state houses, statewide elected offices, state governorships, combined with a sweeping RW control of all 3 parts of US federal government.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)But unacceptable for international air travel. It's listed by the TSA as acceptable form of identification: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
And from the State Dept https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/news/real-id-not-needed-for-domestic-flights-until-2018.html
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)despite that verbiage.
http://flyingwithfish.boardingarea.com/2013/04/20/the-u-s-passport-card-identification-anomaly/
The U.S. Passport Card Identification Anomaly
April 20, 2013 by flyingfish 24 Comments
Today marks the tenth time I have used my United States Passport Card as identification while flying a domestic flight rather than my drivers license since I received it this past February. Today also marks the fourth time a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Transportation Security Officer (TSO) checking identification and board documents has looked up at me and told me they needed a valid form of government issued identification, such as a drivers license or
wait for it
a passport.
The U.S. Passport Card, like a conventional passport, is issued by the United States Department of State for international travel, although it has limitations. The U.S. Passport card is Valid only for international land and sea travel between United States, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda, however it is a valid U.S. government issued piece of identification for all domestic purposes
after all it proves my identity and citizenship as a United States Passport.
The TSA TSO who first refused my U.S. Passport Card was at Los Angeles International Airport, who told me he could not accept it, as U.S. Passport Cards are valid for land and sea travel only. That said, I was traveling from Los Angeles to New York, a domestic flight where a passport is not required and proof of citizenship isnt required. After a brief back and forth the TSO asked his supervisor to look at the Passport Card and it was accepted as valid identification.
The second time my passport card was refused was at Honolulu International Airport, and Id almost give the TSO a pass on this. The TSO told me she had never seen one before, which is understandable due to Hawaiis geographic location. The statistical number of Passport Card issued in Hawaii is probably lower than anywhere else in the United States.
The third issue with a TSO no initially accepting my U.S. Passport Card was at New Yorks JFK Airport Terminal 3, where I have used it more than anywhere else. The TSO informed me that the identification looked fake. Hed never heard of a Passport Card or seen one. This TSO summoned over his supervisor because he wanted to have the police get involved over the use of a fake Federally issued identification. Obviously that never happened, the Supervisor informed him that U.S. Passport Cards were valid and a legitimate form of identification.
SNIP
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)cannot get passports unless both parents agree. That is impossible in many situations.
So...you advocate children in this situation not be allowed to fly?
Interesting view.
I rarely read that we need MORE restriction on traveling on this website.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)TSA does not require children under 18 to provide identification when traveling with a companion within the United States. The companion will need acceptable identification.
https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)or even a passport card (which allows travel only to limited locations, such as Canada.)
http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans-have-a-passport-2/
The quick answer is that yes, the majority of Americans do not have a passport. The percentage of Americans who have a valid passport, according to the most recent statistics as tabulated by the State Department, is about 46%. This number excludes passport cards, which are identification cards that only allow sea and overland entry to the U.S. from Canada, Mexico and certain parts of the Caribbean, but not the rest of the world.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)a person needs to have a compliant ID. We are only talking about 9 states atm that refuse fully or partially with the requirements. I suggest people there petition their state to adopt a compliant ID.
Flying is not a right.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)The majority of Americans don't.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)then they will have to get it if they wish to fly. They have had years upon years to sort this out, and still have over a year to go.
I live in London, I am a dual citizen, so if that makes me "elitist" then I do not know what to say. Every adult I know has at least one passport, and many of these are far from wealthy individuals. It is far from unfair to make a universal security requirement to fly.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)then everyone does. Only 46% of Americans have a passport book or a passport card.
Till now, flying from New York to California hasn't been like traveling from England to France. We haven't required international passports to travel by plane from state to state.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)states now have in the form of their state ID/DL's. People residing in those 9 states need to take it up with the state government, or simply comply with an acceptable form of ID by other means. The bi-partisan national law was passed, and it has been given years to be adopted by the states. It is a matter of security for travel within the US.
A comparison of people I know based on where I live is hardly a priori elitist, it simply shows cultural and governmental compliance differences of one location versus another.
kcr
(15,317 posts)You are on a website where a lot of people lean Dem/progressive, and Real ID is not popular. That's why you're getting some guff. You might be fine with it personally as a matter of security. You're entitled to your opinion, but factually speaking there's nothing about Real ID that makes any of us safer.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)13 years ago. I am a dual citizen who lives in London. Biometric ID's are standard EU wide and in most USA states as well. They definitely add an extra layer of security. It's funny you to frame it as a non progressive issue, when the main resistance has mostly historically come from the far right and also the tin foil hat conspiracy crowd, ie. Alex Jones and his flock of chemtrail/FEMA camp loons and like-minded ilk, plus Sovereign Citizens, militia groups, and Bundy types as well.
raccoon
(31,111 posts)crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)I had one as a child, but it expired when I was in high school (90s). I never renewed it. Renewing it would set me back time and money that I would rather not spend when international travel is not in my immediate future. Should I make travel plans to leave the country, then I'll get one. But until then, I'd rather spend the almost $200 on something else.
I was last on a plane 6 weeks ago and used a drivers license to board. I can fill out employment paperwork with my DL and SS card or birth certificate.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)Passport is 110 usd and good for 10 years. 15 year olds and under get them for 15 usd and 80 usd. Your statement of "most people can't afford that" is not valid. You are implying that 170 to 200 million or more Americans cannot afford that (as "most" means far over a majority). The USA is not Chad or Malawi or some other impoverished nation.
Also, close to 90% or so of Americans live in states where a simple state ID or DL is sufficient to fly domestically. I am fairly certain many of the 9 remaining states will come around after enough pressure is applied to them. The Real ID Act was non partisan and people will have had 13 years to comply. That is long enough. It's necessary for security.
doc03
(35,349 posts)about $150 I think. The cost would be a problem for many people.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)90% of people dont even need that as their state ID or DL is Real ID compliant.
We are talking about flying here, which is expensive in and of itself, plus it is not a right.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)life, etc.
I understand that people who actually reside in the US have much less desire, on average, to travel internationally than most other industrialised nations, but I think it is entirely healthy for the country at large if more so did go and see how the rest of the world is.
If a person is too old or ill to travel abroad, then yes, they do not need a passport, but IF they wish to fly, they will need Real ID compliant ID (such as the 30 usd US Passport Card) in 13 months or so, and for security purposes, they will have to get it, if those 9 stubborn states refuse to upgrade. It is just part of the overarching federal security system that was voted in by both parties.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)a fraudulent ID and or if you are a potential threat. It is all about security, which is unfortunately a paramount concern today. It was passed with huge bi-partisan support almost 12 years ago.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Seems to me that things were working fine before the law was passed.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)their state driver's licenses last for 25 years!
It strikes me as unlikely that licenses from Arizona that are about to finally expire would be compliant with any new security measures, but maybe I'm wrong?
I found out about the 25 year duration a few years ago while attending a conference about Pseudoxanthoma Elasticum (PXE), a genetic condition that causes early blindness and other problems.
I talked to the actress, Jessica Harper, and her brother Charles. Both of them have PXE like me.
Charles showed me his still-active AZ driver's license despite his legal blindness. Jessica, also legally blind, was upset and demanded that Charles give her the license so she could destroy it! He said that he didn't use it to drive anymore, but she still wanted it! He laughed as he held it high above her so she couldn't reach it. She also had trouble seeing where he was holding it, obviously. They acted like young siblings bickering over something that they both wanted!
Jessica's IMDb page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0363888/
Her brother was a hoot!
Krytan11c
(271 posts)As far as I knew it lasts until you're 65 here in AZ.
former9thward
(32,028 posts)Anyone can get a new license at any DMV site.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,855 posts)He showed me his AZ driver's license about 8 to 10 years ago, I think, and it wasn't due to expire for many more years. His sister was upset that he still had a driver's license since he was legally blind at the time, like her.
I'm assuming that Arizona required everyone to complete a new vision test when they issued the new "real ID" driver's licenses?
Ohio requires a vision test with each new license, and they only last 4 years at a time.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)don't have transportation to the DMV. Mine isn't on a bus line, which would affect people dependent on public transportation.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)They did not even give me the option of obtaining this so-called "real I.d."
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)HeartachesNhangovers
(814 posts)The "enhanced" license - which costs a bit more & requires additional documentation - WILL work for flying domestically in the future. My wife and I got these this year.
Since the writer of the article doesn't know this about WA state, it's possible that some or all of the other states listed also have a similar option.
Wounded Bear
(58,670 posts)"a bit more" is kind of understated, it is double the price. Since we go for 6 years at a pop, the diff for me was about $58, which I didn't have, living on a fixed income. Thankfully, I can upgrade later, at only the diference in price, which I will probably in 2017 some time, as I have family in California and am getting a bit old to drive.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)they'll have no need for their airports. Things could get pretty ugly.
former9thward
(32,028 posts)And the date gets extended every year or so. That is why those states have not complied with the law. It will get extended again and they know it.
dembotoz
(16,808 posts)Cause the parents who fly once a decade or so find out the family needs enhanced I'd to get on a plane.
Screaming kids, angry parents...If they are black they will probably get shot...
Fun fun fun
0rganism
(23,957 posts)do we need passports for interstate travel now?
pangaia
(24,324 posts)0rganism
(23,957 posts)but you can never leeeeeeaaave
welcome to the hotel Minnesota
brooklynite
(94,602 posts)...between his anti-terrorist mantra, and pissing off people in States that voted for him?
Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
doc03
(35,349 posts)licenses from 4 different states. I am wondering if he could vote in 4 states. He was one of the guest workers
that work on the drilling rigs and pipelines. They are mostly from the western or southern states..
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)"Papers" please at all the borders.
Is this something that Obama can stop before Trump implements it?
Johnathan146
(141 posts)I'm not sure what this has to to with Trump. Obama has had 8 years to repeal it if he wanted too.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Someone has to do something
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,862 posts)Because it IS just bullshit, just as every other "security" nonsense since September 11, 2001, is pure theater.
I'm speaking as a former airline employee who started working at a major east coast airport several years before any security whatsoever. The reason the first security screenings were implemented were to stop the almost weekly skyjackings that were occurring by the early 1970's. And it worked. Skyjackings stopped.
Then 9/11 occurred, and we got all this absolute nonsense about not being able to bring knitting needles or embroidery scissors or nail clippers on board. Nail clippers? Really?
So then, in their infinite idiocy, our Congress (or whoever) decided we need some sort of bullet proof drivers' licenses. Sigh.
Here in New Mexico, in the few months since our drivers' licenses conform to the Real ID standards, there have been all sorts of problems. Such as the DMV being unwilling to accept a valid passport as good enough. WTF??? Do they not know what hoops you go through to get a passport?
Luckily for me my DL came up for renewal earlier this year, about a month before the Real ID implementation.
I recently renewed my passport and got the passport card while I was at it. I keep that in my wallet, which means if I need to flee to Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean suddenly, I'm good to go.
I tend to be of the opinion that everyone should have a passport, but the financial reality for some people is that the cost of one might be out of their financial means, and I've been much poorer than I am now, and so I get that. Someone who has no interest in international travel, even if a passport is affordable, is different. If that someone were a personal friend of mine, I'd try to convince her to get a passport, mainly because I can't imagine not ever travelling out of the country. That's just me.
What is nice about current passports is that they are good for ten years. I think my first passport was only good for five years.
dflprincess
(28,079 posts)it's also a pain in the neck to get.
It's only available at driver's license examining stations which most people only go to when they first get their license. There are other offices, with more convenient hours, where you can can go to renew a regular license.
The enhanced license also costs more and requires more ID and proof of residence than you need to get a passport. In fact, a passport is a piece of ID it's suggested you use to get the enhanced license.
If your concern is being able to fly and you have a passport, just use that. It's all the TSA requires and there's no point to putting yourself through the hassle of getting the license until the the state requires it. Though I personally think it's pathetic that this is being required for travel within the U.S.
Afromania
(2,769 posts)I recommend that people everywhere get as many forms of ID as they can because the Republicans insist on being ill. On the surface of things I don't exactly disagree with the need for national picture ID's. However, being something new there should be more of an allowance of time, and perhaps an federal outlay of money, for people to get the supporting ID's required to get this federal ID.
While the US Passport ID "could" be as little as 30$. It's completely dependent on you already having the corresponding walk up documents. Let's be honest, most people are broke or pretty close to it in this country and digging up the time and money to gather up all of the documents is an undertaking. At each stage of the ID process you are going to require something that either costs money to replace or a document that requires an outlay of money to get.
Birth Certificate = Varies (could just be info on who your parents were, where you were born, etc) or a picture ID, Fee depending on state
Social Security Card = Birth Certificate (cost depends on place of birth), U.S. Government Picture ID(license, state ID , Passport)
Drivers License = Birth Certificate, Social Security Card or a combination of other stuff that may require you have the Birth Certificate or Social Security card, Fee's associated with getting a drivers license
Passport = Birth Certificate(or other early life document), Drivers License (55$-in person 30$-online limited to a few states)
I've helped a few of my older relatives get replacements for lost birth certificates. The costs have been as little as 9$ and as much as 45$. The costs are then further compounded by an individuals ability to travel to the place where they were born. Some places have taken the filing process online, but the vast majority of places still require an in person visit. From there you are outlaying varying amounts of money at each step of the process making the final total for a Passport something considerably more than 30$. From there it becomes even more complicated with the Social Security Card, Drivers License, and Passport requiring at least two of the other forms of ID.
With the exception of the Social Security Card everything else is going to cost something. Each of the ID's requires you have one, or more, of the others. There may be certain situations where the process catch-22 its' self. What happens when you need a replacement Birth Certificate from a place that insists on a drivers license, or other picture ID with signature, as proof; and you can't get the drivers license without the Birth Certificate. This push for federal ID's needs to be streamlined somehow, and free.
MarkCross7
(36 posts)Before 9/11 I drove from NY to Detroit threw Canada all the time without a passport.