In case you thought I never criticized Obama: Today was a screwup.

[TheWraith]

The Obama admin should never have invoked executive privilege on these documents. It takes a tiny story that the Republicans have been trying to make something out of for months, and it immediately super-sizes it and puts it on every political news segment for a week at least. Plus it was Obama's first use of executive privilege in what has otherwise been a privilege-free administration, which adds to the newsworthiness. They simply shouldn't have done it. The appearance of trying to hide something is far worse than whether or not you're actually trying to hide something.

If the documents couldn't really have been turned over, then Eric Holder should have fallen on his sword months ago and tied this thing off. There's no real way to deny it was a colossal fuck up, and Holder either knew or should have. Him getting out was the fastest way to cut the footing out from under the Republicans who now have just been handed a shiny new hammer.

No, I don't think it makes a big difference long term. It's not going to bring down the Obama administration. But it's a distraction that takes time away from hitting Romney on the economy, and lets the Republicans play to their strengths.

[cthulu2016]

1. That makes some assumptions

Do we know the documents are not politically worse than releasing them would be?

I have no idea. Not suggesting anything. I genuinely have no idea, so I cannot weigh the political merits one way or another.

Anyway, I think it was a forced non-political move. If Congress was seeking documents of internal deliberations then EP has to be invoked for institutional reasons.

Also, the invocation makes the contempt charge legally moot. That's why it was made prior to the vote. (Holder cannot be held in contempt for not turning over privileged documents. (!!!) They would have to go to court to show they were not privileged and then make the contempt charge.)

[BootinUp]

2. Another view

One could argue that the President by invoking executive privilege, is taking responsibility, and is making a command decision. Some voters may see that in a more favorable light than a less forceful response. At least thats my thinking right now. Besides which, if Obama and Holder think documents need to be held from those untrustworthy repukes, I support their decision.

[TheWraith]

4. Problem is, without this most people would never have heard of this story.

Without the attention, it's an asterisk.

[Bolo Boffin]

3. Holding Holder in contempt supersizes the issue all by itself.

Fuck sword-falling when it's not necessary. Give in to these assholes in Issa's committee, and any Congress will be able to fuck with the President by threatening this type of charade.

Holder is being held in contempt for not providing documents about Justice Department deliberations AFTER the program was suspended. This isn't about who did what with Fast and Furious. It's a witchhunt, and if Obama had cut Holder loose, people would be here slamming Obama for being spineless.

[morningfog]

6. Holder hasn't been held in contempt.

[Bolo Boffin]

15. A House committee has held him in contempt, yes.

It goes to a vote by the full House next week.

[morningfog]

16. The committee recommended he be held in contempt.

He has not been held in contempt. The committee recommended the full House find him in contempt.

[Bolo Boffin]

18. Go split your fine hairs some the fuck place else, alright? n/t

[morningfog]

21. What is your problem?

He hasn't been held in contempt yet. Hopefully, he won't be and I don't think he will.

I am just trying to keep it straight.

I am sure Holder appreciates the "splitting of hairs" at this point. He and Obama are watching this very closely. Right now, it is just a committee chaired by an asshole recommending contempt. That is a far cry and thankfully for Holder and the administration, from actual contempt. Which means something much more.

By the way. Get over yourself.

[Bolo Boffin]

26. Right, because sanity will prevail in the full House.

Issa's committee voting for contempt is the equivalent of Judge Roy Moore winning the GOP primary for Alabama State Supreme Court Chief. Sure, the actual election hasn't happened yet, but that's strictly a formality. Moore is the next AL Supreme Court chief, and the House is voting Holder to be in contempt.

Please don't pretend we don't have history discussing issues.

[morningfog]

27. When the full House votes, then Holder will be charged with contempt.

I have no hope in the House as far as their sanity goes. You were just a little premature or you overstated it. No big deal.

[randome]

5. Obama isn't perfect.

But he is smart. I find it hard to believe he did this without a reason. I know that won't be enough for the fence-sitters but still...

[cthulu2016]

10. It's a legal maneuver

The assertion of privilege moots (legally) the anticipated contempt vote.

[morningfog]

7. It was a screw up, and if it was done because the administration has something to hide, it

will be even worse.

[ProSense]

9. How so?

"It was a screw up, and if it was done because the administration has something to hide, it will be even worse. "

Did you envision a scenario in which Issa hounds the administration, holds a contempt vote (which was scheduled today even before Obama's action) and creates the impression that the administration "has something to hide" would be better?

Or should the administration simple have released the documents against its better judgment just to appease that fuckwit Issa?

The admin did the right thing, basically telling Issa to fuck off!

[morningfog]

11. Unless they claimed executive privilege to hide something improper.

They either should have headed this off long ago or produced the docs. The OP's point, and I agree, is this was mishandled. It gives fuel to the fire. I think ultimately it will be no harm no foul. Unless the privilege was claimed to hide something more.

[ProSense]

12. No

"They either should have headed this off long ago or produced the docs."

There was nothing they could have done to head it off (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002834649). Republicans weren't interested.

Releasing the documents was out of the question. Period.

[morningfog]

23. I wish Dems were as good at investigating and prosecuting actual crimes

and improprieties as repubs are at witch hunts.

[sad sally]

25. Maybe some of the screw-up is about who knew what and when did they know it

From the sounds of what we know, the program had all the makings of one that had the potential to go bad.

The ATF sells "marked" guns to "straw purchasers" in the US who turn around and smuggle them to the Mexican drug cartel. ATF tracks the sale of the guns with gun shops using their Suspect Gun Database. What could possibly go wrong with a gunwalking plan like this? The gun owners don't like to be a part of it? The ATF agents don't like the idea of it? Oh, ATF looses track of who all has the guns and an ATF agent gets killed by one of the guns? Guns included AK-47 variants, Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifles, .38 caliber revolvers, and the FN Five-seven - just the kind of weapons drug cartels like. When did the DEA, FBI, ICE and IRS join the ATF in this sting operation?

Then, in an interview with CNN Espanol in May 2011, the President talked about Holder knowing nothing about it until that date, then in May 2011 Holder says he just found out about it a couple of weeks before. Maybe it doesn't matter, but these are the kind of "who knew what and when did they know it" things that get politicians in trouble.
-----------------------

Obama Spoke About "Fast & Furious" Before Holder Claimed He Knew

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There have been problems, you know. I heard on the news about this story that -- Fast and Furious, where allegedly guns were being run into Mexico, and ATF knew about it, but didn't apprehend those who had sent it.

Eric Holder has -- the attorney general has been very clear that he knew nothing about this. We had assigned an I.G., inspector general, to investigate it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

...Holder's testimony to Congress on MAY 3, 2011, where he said he had only just recently heard about the Fast & Furious gunrunning program. "I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks," Attorney General Eric Holder said.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/13/obama_spoke_about_fast__furious_before_holder_claimed_he_knew

[magical thyme]

8. Phew! For a moment I thought hell froze over. I disagree.

While I think this should have been put to bed long ago, Obama did the only thing he could do today, and while it's a distraction I'm guessing one way or another, the GOP is going to end up looking more obstructionist and idiotic than ever.

[spanone]

13. disagree.

[JoePhilly]

14. Disagree for a number of reasons.

1) The story is too complex for the GOP to be able to explain. Its doesn't fit on a bumper sticker. Holder turned over 7500+ documents ... and the same folks who said they couldn't read a 2700 healthcare bill, now want over 80,000 documents.

2) Everyone in the country already knows that the House GOP hates Obama with the heat of 1000 white hot suns. So it is extremely easy to point out that this is nothing but business as usual from them.

3) Somewhere, Mitt Romney is banging his head on a table because this is all happening right in the middle of his awesome bus tour. Did you see many quote from Mitt today? Nope, he's irrelevant. He did say one intereating thing this week, that Obama is out of touch because he doesn't know when to send US jobs overseas ... but that's OK, that little quote will be playing in advertisements very very soon. The GOP won't reallly be able to make any ads out of this F&F stuff.

4) Its good to see Obama telling the House GOP to F**K off. Look like a strong leader.

[madokie]

17. Sorry but you are wrong

[ecstatic]

19. Does anyone other than teabaggers care about this issue?

I do feel that fuel was thrown on the fire, but at the same time, the repubs have completely lost it! The way they spoke to Holder and the way they're trying to change the rules when it comes to AG Holder and Pres Obama is disgusting. They're desperately trying to change the subject from their miserable failure nominee to something else.

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. Tiny story? Tell that to Brian Terry's parents. How long did we shout Pat Tillman's name from the

rooftops?

Remember... It's not the crime, it's the cover-up.

Claiming executive privilege was a brilliant stroke though... it effectively tables the discussion after this news cycle and until after ballots are cast in November.

What happens after that is anyone's guess, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that Eric Holder's days as AG are numbered, and that number comes due just before President Obama gets inaugurated in January.

[rufus dog]

22. Disagree

It is a major FUCK YOU! to the pukes. Obama can keep throwing people under the bus or stand up and fight. He has chosen to fight a Republican congress with an 8% approval rating and can lay them out for being obstructionist MOTHER FUCKING ASSHOLES.

About time.

[lonestarnot]

24. What strength is in nutfuckery?