how many never trumpers are there?

[mopinko]

i want to believe that someone in d.c. is walking around w articles of impeachment in their back pocket.

is there any hope the never trumpers can save our collective ass, and will?they are the closest thing to sane republicans out there. i dont know how many there are but i am praying there are more in the closet, anyway.

they could give us the few votes we need to bring the articles, and to convict in the senate. i hope.

please dont say but pence. we could always impeach him, too if we had these folks on our side.

who do you think is/might be never cheeto? lets count heads.

[Else You Are Mad]

1. To be honest.

Trump is less of a monster than Pence. Trump is pro-gay marriage, Trump is pro-choice, Trump is anti-trade deals. At the end of the day, Trump is the one that signs the bills into law. I would rather him to be holding that pen than Pence who is pure evil.

Impeaching Trump would be an even worse disaster than allowing him to finish out his four years. Pence has committed no impeachsble offense and is a favorite of the Kochs and other billionaire donors. He will do their bidding, and the donors will tell the Congress not to impeach Pence.

In sum, the never Trump's are always Pence.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. But, He Has No Teeth

Opposition to him is far less politically dangerous since nobody voted for him. (i know the name is on the ballot, but nobody really voted that way because of Pence.)

He'd be like Ford. Yeah, an evil version, but still toothless politically.

[Else You Are Mad]

5. He wouldn't be.

Pence would most likely tap Paul Ryan as his VP. It doesn't matter what people voted for, Pence still would have the power of the presidency, and, given the pattern of the last 40 or so years he would have another term. That is the US will re-elect Pence. Since Reagan, only one sitting president lost the election for their second term -- and that was largely because of Ross Perot stealing a large number of Bush voters.

And, again, if you look not at Trump's words but his actual stances, he is much more liberal than Pence. I do not want a petro-industry and far right Christian puppet Pence presidency.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. Do You Remember 1974?

Ford was POTUS. Nobody cared what he said or thought. A "never heard of him" governor from Georgia beat him without even a full term to have a chance. He was a national joke. Chevy Chase built his career making fun of him.

[Dream Girl]

18. Pence is a lot more cunning than Ford ever was...he would get a second term

Best bet is to endure four years of Trump and then run a TBD superman/woman against him

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Well, We Have To End This Disagreeing

Pence doesn't stuck me as the least bit cunning. He wears his intentions on his sleeve. He doesn't fool anybody and he's not trying. He's a governor because he has southern Indiana locked up. Same reason Rauner won Illinois. South of Springfield might as well be Alabama.

[Else You Are Mad]

20. That is an oversimplification of what happened.

He was Tarnished from the prior administration. And, four years later, Carter lost to the populist Reagan. That was over 40 years ago, now presidents -- once elected -- are almost guaranteed to have two terms. This is even more true should Trump/Pence push the fact that they will be war time presidents. People used to make fun of Reagan in the 80s, Clinton in the 90s, Bush in the 2000s, and Obama in the late 2000s. That does not make a difference anymore.

People, except for the 92 election that had the spoiler Perot, have shown that since 80 prefer continuity to change. We are going to have to pull a 92 like spoiler campaign if we have any hope of winning in 2020.

[mopinko]

6. exactly. or george ryan, w indictments pending.

as voltaire once noted about the british navy-

they like to hang an admiral from time to time so as to encourage the others.

pretty long past time we hung an admiral. wouldnt just straighten up pence, but all the others.

and i did sorta ask that this not be the discussion. whether or not it is a good idea, can the neverdrumphers deliver it?

[Else You Are Mad]

8. The problem is that the Never Trumpsters...

Will be always Pencesters when their billionaire backers tell them not to do anything to hurt Pence - - who is a known puppet for the rich right donors.

[lapfog_1]

3. There is a problem

Many of them are radical right anyway (no EPA, no HUD, DHS to round up all undocumented is just fine, no to science, etc). So Trump is taking them to the promised nirvana that currently is Kansas or Wisconsin (lower taxes on high income people, much lower on corporations, cap gains). So Donald is actually doing what they have always wanted. That he is a lying corrupt self dealing showman and probable national security risk is something they might just learn to live with and thing that Rinse Penis plus his generals will help keep Twitler from starting wars... maybe.

Also, they are afraid that the 20 million or so Trumpeteers will turn against them if they try to oppose (much less overthrow) Twitler.

End result, they will do nothing.

We (the 65Million plus majority) will be totally on our own.

[mopinko]

7. my question is how many are there?

who are they? who might they be?

we may have no choice but to impeach if he starts an international incident.
we may need to impeach in the space of time it takes him to press the button.
i cannot be the only one thinking this.

[Else You Are Mad]

10. We didn't impeach Bush when he started international incidents.

American presidents have started international incidents over the last few centuries. That doesn't rise to an impeachsble offense.

[mopinko]

11. still not answering my question.

he is not any american president. many people were behind what w did.
no one will see what cheeto does coming.

i am really talking about extreme circumstances that may well be coming. not politics as usual of the last couple centuries. there is no comparison.

so who might be with us if dr strangelove appeared on the scene is what i am asking.
we should know this.
we should be sending feelers.

[Else You Are Mad]

12. What I said about Pence also applies to Trump

Those that were never Trump in the Senate, still have the same donors as the pro-Trump members of Senate. These people will want to keep receiving the donations from the billionaires that are set to benefit from Trump's presidency. I believe that there will be no vocal never Trump Republican Senate members.

It is sad, and why we need to get all money out of politics.

[mopinko]

13. well thanks for kicking the thread.

you remain stuck in normal. this is not normal.
what makes you think he does not have the capacity to completely horrify even the rich? or to threaten their interests, too?

[Else You Are Mad]

15. What makes me think that is, simply put:

His tax plan. He will save them millions in taxes. Right wing billionaires have no moral concerns so long as President Trump saves them money on their tax bill.

Don't get me wrong, I wish Trump would be impeached, as well as Pence, but the true power broker's don't care about anything but money. If they can save money on taxes, they wouldn't care if America was a burning, post apocalyptic waste land.

[MFM008]

4. Disagree

Pence is a typical repuke. Standard not extraordinary. Like Ryan. He would never behave like maggot. Impulsive and unexpected. Yes he's a bigot and homophobe but so are the rest of the gop.

[mopinko]

9. not sure where i disagree w that.

did you mean this for one of the replies?

that is not my question, tho. who are they, and how many might there be? is what i want to know.

we should be calling them.

[Generator]

16. YES I agree

It's that bad. Trump has to go. I will take Pence. I will take any human that has a lick of sense and won't start nuclear wars and take away the 1st amendment. I think the worst is possible with Trump-war with China/Russia when he gets mad at Putin? War with Iran! Or some random shit that gets masses murdered. Trump is insane and believes in nothing but his own power. He is the most dangerous thing to happen to this country. Losing gay marriage and medicare and abortion are small nightmares. We can get those things back. Can we recover from nuclear war? A civil war?

[Generator]

14. Evan McMullin

Lindsey Graham and as usual McCain is an half arsed. Never trust him. Besides that I don't know. Graham has called for investigation into Russia influence.

I would welcome some more names!

[mopinko]

21. and who of the money men was nevertrump?

i know adelson was for a while, then threw in.

srsly peep, we need to sniff out who on the other side might throw in w us instead. we dont need that many. just enough to make it a fair fight.