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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 12:46 PM Dec 2016

We lost control of the narrative.

Let me be the first to say that not everything is sunshine and roses in America but we are in an infinitely better spot than when President Obama took office. The official unemployment is 4.6% If real unemployment is higher than what is published than it was higher than what was published under President Obama's Republican predecessors. The GDP is growing at a 3.2 clip. Real incomes are starting to rise. Poverty is starting to fall. Crime is at relatively low levels.

Out of all the mature large industrialized democracies we are in the best economic shape.

Things are much better now than when Reagan ran his 49 state winning "Morning In America" campaign.


Everything is relative. You need to compare things to like things. I am befuddled that Trump got to portray America as being in the shitter and that only he can fix it.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We lost control of the narrative. (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 OP
Wouldn't losing control of something imply once having it? HughBeaumont Dec 2016 #1
Re:CNBC. Obama has been pretty good for the markets, like Clinton DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #3
But the GOP is "perceived" as the party of business, and better for business. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #5
That's the irony. The research suggests Dems are better for the economy, from the highest ... DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #7
Much, much better for the economy. They break it; we fix it. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #18
True, but as has been posted here, the media gave minimal attention guillaumeb Dec 2016 #23
Because we lost control of the narrative pscot Dec 2016 #25
Agreed. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #26
Oh, indeed he has. HughBeaumont Dec 2016 #9
Some of the smarter ones on CNBC do. There are a few good apples . DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #13
I'm more befuddled that people actually fell for it. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #2
Trump said real unemployment is 42% DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #6
Because FOX, Breitbart and Trump all pushed fear, anger and resentment. And the brain chemistry KittyWampus Dec 2016 #10
All news is local. This is not an evenly distributed recovery Amishman Dec 2016 #16
Clinton won on the economy, according to exit polls. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #17
"they're clearly gullible and easily influenced" SubjectiveLife78 Dec 2016 #20
Because Democrats generally appeal to logic and rationalism. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #21
+1,000 etherealtruth Dec 2016 #24
Are the people that voted for Trump for those reasons you stated the ones that won him the election? SubjectiveLife78 Dec 2016 #29
They voted for a pathological liar who is a sociopath. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #30
Given that the corporate media is owned by the 1%, as are many politicians, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #4
The likely GOP voter isn't interested in your narrative Johonny Dec 2016 #8
A large enough number of those people WERE interested in Obama's narrative and delivery. KittyWampus Dec 2016 #11
"Everything is relative. You need to compare things to like things." SubjectiveLife78 Dec 2016 #12
Things are relative to each other. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #14
Yeah, but there's only one President at a time SubjectiveLife78 Dec 2016 #19
Beginning January 20th, 2017 workinclasszero Dec 2016 #15
Speaking in abstracts does not work. Caliman73 Dec 2016 #22
The narrative was right there, people just didn't pay much attention outside their comfort zones. Sunlei Dec 2016 #27
we lost control of getting our votes counted. The big democratic citys have nothing but broken putitinD Dec 2016 #28

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
1. Wouldn't losing control of something imply once having it?
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 12:49 PM
Dec 2016

Sorry to say, but the "old college try" just isn't working in the face of evil owning damned near everything . . . including the narratives (and conspiracy theories) that middle America swallows like comfort food at a Cracker Barrel.

When you have at least 3-4 channels on cable news that are pushing blatant Republican politics in such a way that the far right gets mainstreamed, that's just hard to fight. CNBC, for example, is loving the fact that they can be unchained and even MORE right-skewered than ever now that their man is in. Ad dollars played a huge influence in this election.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
5. But the GOP is "perceived" as the party of business, and better for business.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 12:55 PM
Dec 2016

Perception wins over reality.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
7. That's the irony. The research suggests Dems are better for the economy, from the highest ...
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 12:59 PM
Dec 2016

That's the irony. The research suggests Dems are better for the economy, from the highest to the lowliest, because their economic policies are more stimulative.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
23. True, but as has been posted here, the media gave minimal attention
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 05:56 PM
Dec 2016

to steady job growth under President Obama, but made a production out of Trump bribing Carrier to save a few hundred jobs even as it outsourced many more.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
25. Because we lost control of the narrative
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 06:16 PM
Dec 2016

There was a blizzard of really professional propaganda directed at all of the Dem leaders. We had no answer for it beyond, "Oh, people will never believe that".

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
26. Agreed.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 06:19 PM
Dec 2016

And the proliferation of fake news sites, and the acceptance of O'Keefe, and Breitbart, and FOX as legitimate news organizations is another example of losing control of reality as well as the narrative.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
9. Oh, indeed he has.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:13 PM
Dec 2016

You'd be hard pressed to find someone on that 24-hour anti-Obama ad who would credit his steady leadership for the markets NOT collapsing like a drum falling down a flight of stairs, though.

TwilightZone

(25,473 posts)
2. I'm more befuddled that people actually fell for it.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 12:52 PM
Dec 2016

The living epitome of corporate elitism convinced nearly half the voting public - including a not-small number of "progressives" and other liberals/Democrats/minorities/etc. - that he was an anti-elite, anti-establishment populist.

I know we're not supposed to stereotype Trump supporters, but I quite honestly do not understand how anyone would vote for the guy outside of rich people. Not even them. Sorry, but they're clearly gullible and easily influenced. Seemingly all of them.

I really didn't think there were enough gullible people in the country to elect him. I was grossly mistaken.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
10. Because FOX, Breitbart and Trump all pushed fear, anger and resentment. And the brain chemistry
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:15 PM
Dec 2016

involved is addicting.

Once you get fed that stuff, it takes hold and requires great effort to overcome.

Amishman

(5,559 posts)
16. All news is local. This is not an evenly distributed recovery
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:40 PM
Dec 2016

The places we lost are not seeing the jobs and recovery.

There are plenty of jobs in Exton, King of prussia, and Philly. Things are great that direction. But an hour away around Lancaster and Berks counties jobs are hard to find and pay a lot less. I spend well over two hours commuting daily to get to my nice job. I have that luxury, but others (like single parents) might not.

It's like the popular vote totals, the national numbers don't tell the whole story.

TwilightZone

(25,473 posts)
17. Clinton won on the economy, according to exit polls.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:53 PM
Dec 2016

Including in the rust belt states many seem to assume voted largely based on economic issues.

Trump won on immigration and terrorism. Latinos and Muslims. Build a wall and throw 'em over it.

Voting for Trump was inherently irrational. Attempting to apply rational arguments to irrational decisions is misguided, at best. Sometimes, the most obvious answer is also the most likely.

 

SubjectiveLife78

(67 posts)
20. "they're clearly gullible and easily influenced"
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 02:17 PM
Dec 2016

Then why can't Democrats, who I'm sure are smarter than Republicans, win them over? Because they're racist? Well, think up a strategy to get around the racism. Especially since race and racism are social constructs anyway.

Saying clearly gullible and easily influenced after an election just sounds like they're idiots because they didn't vote for the side I'm on. If they had voted with me, all of a sudden they're not clearly gullible and easily influenced? Or are clearly gullible and easily influenced people always clearly gullible and easily influenced regardless of who they vote for, but if you win those people over to your particular side, you're not going to say that to them?

TwilightZone

(25,473 posts)
21. Because Democrats generally appeal to logic and rationalism.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 02:27 PM
Dec 2016

That doesn't work with people who are making decisions based on fear, an inherently irrational state, and/or ignorance, intentional or otherwise.

"just sounds like they're idiots because they didn't vote for the side I'm on."

Well, yes. Anyone who voted for Trump is gullible. He was shown to be a pathological liar by every fact-checker in existence, and people took him at face value anyway. That's the very definition of gullible. To believe anything Trump says, in the face of incontrovertible evidence that he's a lying sociopath, nails it on the head.

I'm not interested in winning over Trump voters who voted for him based on building a wall and rounding up American citizens and putting them in camps or worse. Or believe Hillary is running a sex crime ring out of a pizza joint. They're a waste of time. Our time would be much better spent refining our message and increasing and maintaining turnout in the areas that are already strengths.

 

SubjectiveLife78

(67 posts)
29. Are the people that voted for Trump for those reasons you stated the ones that won him the election?
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 08:11 PM
Dec 2016

Were the wall and concentration camp people the famous apathetic voters of years past that don't bother to vote? Usually the people that don't vote are the younger people. Usually the younger people aren't wall and concentration camp kinds of people.

Not sure I'm a fan of saying one side of a political divide has more logic and rationalism on its side either. Democrats, Republicans, those are just generalized names we have for groups of people. It's too easy to say the side I'm on is of course the logical and rational side, because obviously I wouldn't be on the illogical and irrational side. We're always the hero in our own story.

If every side thinks the other sides are just stupid, then nobody is ever going to agree on anything. Which is fine, maybe that's just how humans are. We're still a tribal species, despite our mass society. Technology has forced everyone together, when otherwise they wouldn't be. Or at a smaller scale at least.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
4. Given that the corporate media is owned by the 1%, as are many politicians,
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 12:54 PM
Dec 2016

it is not surprising that the GOP narrative is so pervasive in the media. Sites like DU and the few progressive radio stations are fighting against the huge number of right wing sites and outlets.

Johonny

(20,864 posts)
8. The likely GOP voter isn't interested in your narrative
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:01 PM
Dec 2016

they just wanted to win. Now they've won and the idea for many of them that "change" is actually coming is not what they wanted.

Trump played the winner and they love that.

For most Americans...they waited all election for the media to actually start talking about the issues. They never forced the Trump campaign to do that. The media sucks. But the majority of Americans didn't buy into Trump. That the presidency can be won in the fashion he won it is frightening. That he will run an unpopular agenda from day one is scary. That his real agenda is more unpopular than the fake agenda he ran on, should be a wake up call to all Americans... but it isn't. Most won't care until the * hits the fan. Its W all over again. Most people need only one lesson in life, but GOP voters seem to never learn. We call them suckers.

 

SubjectiveLife78

(67 posts)
12. "Everything is relative. You need to compare things to like things."
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:21 PM
Dec 2016

That doesn't make sense. If everything is relative, then the numbers you throw out there might not mean anything to any other given person, because the context they live in is different.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
14. Things are relative to each other.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:25 PM
Dec 2016

A .400 batting average in baseball or a .500 field goal average in basketball is stellar when compared to the batting averages or field goal averages of other players.

A 4.6 unemployment rate is stellar when compared to president Obama's predecessors.

 

SubjectiveLife78

(67 posts)
19. Yeah, but there's only one President at a time
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 02:02 PM
Dec 2016

They all deal with variables that none of the others will. 4.6% today, or in 2000, 1970, 1920, they all mean different things.

America at one time had a booming middle class and was human manufactured goods machine. Then things changed. Now the world has opened up, and 5% of the human population isn't going to dominate the way it did for a short period of time. Or whatever small percentage of that 5%.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
15. Beginning January 20th, 2017
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 01:33 PM
Dec 2016

Trump and his party start an all out war against health care, food assistance and social security.

The BS "I'm for the working man" narrative that Dumpf peddled will fall away and the true ugly face of republicanism will surface.

The democratic party needs to be ready to seize the day and the narrative post Jan 20th.

Caliman73

(11,742 posts)
22. Speaking in abstracts does not work.
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 02:43 PM
Dec 2016

People who are not seeing the effects of those positive economic percentages are more likely to vote and they are more likely to vote for the people who will tell them how they are going to fix their most pressing problems.

Trump lied when he said he would bring people's jobs back. Of course he won't tell you that he lied, he was just using a "euphemism". He lied. He said what people wanted to hear.

Perhaps out of all the "mature large industrialized democracies" or spreadsheets look better, but if you ask the average middle class person in those countries what they get from society (jobs, school, healthcare, etc...) Most of them will tell you that they get almost all of what they need to be content.

It isn't about a percentage of the population that is employed, it is about whether that job provides enough income to purchase necessities and some leisure time. It is about whether that job is secure, or can it be closed up or shipped away at any moment. It is about how society as a whole balances work and personal time.

It is pretty evident historically that Democratic Party governments have done better economically than Republican Party governments. Where we as Democrats have lost our way in some sense is that we are not actively pushing for a more equitable distribution of the great advancements we have made economically over the last 30 years. President Obama has spoken about it, but other Democrats had tried to distance themselves from that populist, progressive platform. If the Democrats want to be the party of the working people, the poor, and the marginalized, then we have to go all in with them and really talk about why people aren't feeling the benefits of low unemployment and decent GDP growth. Then we need to talk about how we are going to fix that, which means we are going to piss off some more recent funding sources like banks and Wall St. firms.

putitinD

(1,551 posts)
28. we lost control of getting our votes counted. The big democratic citys have nothing but broken
Wed Dec 7, 2016, 06:20 PM
Dec 2016

machines. We need paper ballots, hand counted TWICE everywhere

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