Amazon on Monday unveiled the latest plan to automate American workers out of existence

[Kilgore]

A futuristic grocery store without any cashiers.

The company wants to open more than 2,000 brick-and-mortar grocery stores, compared with about 2,800 operated by The Kroger Co., now the nation’s largest full-service grocery retailer.

Amazon’s plans mark its latest push into the $800 billion-a-year grocery business, following its AmazonFresh delivery service that began expanding across the country in 2013 and arrived in Brooklyn in late 2014.

It also threatens countless jobs at grocery stores, which are the leading employers of cashiers and had 856,850 on their payrolls in May 2015, according to the latest figures from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Britt Beamer, president of America’s Research Group, a consumer-behavior research and consulting firm, estimated that Amazon’s cutting-edge technology had the potential to wipe out 75 percent of typical grocery-store staff.

“It’ll be a big job-killer,” Beamer said. “It’ll eliminate the cashier, it’ll get rid of the baggers, it’ll eliminate the stock clerks. This could be big.”

http://nypost.com/2016/12/05/amazon-introduces-next-major-job-killer-to-face-americans/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&sr_share=twitter

http://nypost.com/2016/12/05/amazons-new-grocery-store-wont-have-any-checkout-lines/

[still_one]

1. While I am sure people will do this, a lot of people won't. There are enough people who

want to select their fresh food themselves

This service would be most advantageous to those who could not get out.

[rzemanfl]

2. That isn't how this would work. n/t

[NWCorona]

3. Are you talking about amazon fresh? This is a bit different.

[still_one]

5. Unless I don't understand it, looking at a live cam virtually is not the same thing as

far as I am concerned

[Statistical]

18. Did you watch the video. It is a grocery store.

As in you walk in, pick out the produce you want, and walk out.

[still_one]

21. No, I went to the NYPost link in the OP which described it as a virtual experience. Obviously, I

didn't understand the article fully.

Just saw the video, and now I got it, thanks

[lunasun]

33. Did u watch the op video?

[Hoyt]

4. The bright side is that there will be a bunch of higher skilled workers necessary to

maintain those places. In any event, we have to find a way to provide a guaranteed income soon.

[area51]

23. Yes,

we definitely need a guaranteed income.

[AngryAmish]

26. Roughly 40 percent of Americans have IQs 92 and below

They are going to be unemployable.

[HughBeaumont]

27. There are a LOT of things we need to find a way to do.

With America now almost 100% Teabagger-controlled, aint-a gonna happen no matter how much it desperately NEEDS to happen.

[NBachers]

6. People will flock to it. You'll be surrounded by people who look just like the ones in the video.

They're so up to date!

[Warren DeMontague]

12. People arent going to do it because they think it makes them hip

People are going to do it because the current system of standing in line for a half an hour waiting to be checked out is ripe for improvement.

[Maru Kitteh]

20. Thank you. I hate shopping. I hate having to identify all of my vegetable selections

"It's an Anaheim pepper."
"As a matter of fact, parsley and cilantro are not really the same thing at all"
Asking the cashier to please reweigh my two pears that somehow came in a 3.2lbs because an elbow or a belly was resting on the scale just a bit.


I find no advantage to spending what feels like forever waiting in a line with screaming kids or some jackass yammering on his phone about how drunk he was last weekend, surrounded by "As Seen on TV" crap, National Enquirer's latest on Bill Clinton's alien baby and People Magazine.

[Kilgore]

25. He had an alien baby?? Really!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.....

[brooklynite]

7. You've never been to the Apple Store, have you...

People scan a product with their iPhone, pay with ApplePay and walk out with the item.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

24. I have, and it's dreadful.

For whatever reason I find the Apple Store the most chaotic, unpleasant shopping experience I've ever had to endure.

If the future of shopping is anything like the Apple Store.... ugh.

[Starry Messenger]

65. I've been in Apple Store and usually interface with a human.

Even when I've prepurchased online. Which Apple stores are these?

[brooklynite]

66. It's available in every Apple Store for off the shelf items (software, keyboards, sound systems, etc

[eleny]

8. it gives me the creeps

more and more we're isolated from one another. anyway, i hope kroger doesn't follow this model. i'm old. i like chatting with staff.

i even like to sew things. i'm glad.

[csziggy]

14. Me, too - I like the cashiers and baggers at my local store

They are always friendly and very kind. Some days when I've turned down help, the baggers have insisted on helping me out to the car because I looked tired and they were happy to do everything to help me.

But then I shop at Publix which is employee owned. While their political views are not progressive, they do treat their employees well and everybody seems to be happy working there.

[HockeyMom]

39. No Self Check Out at Publix either

Plus they still have express lines with live cashiers. "Did you find everything you needed"? During busy Season they just hire more temp people and add more lines. Sometimes I have even seen the Managers working the checkout lines.

"Can I help you to your car with your groceries?" Always ask that. What supermarket has big umbrellas for the customers to use? BTW, they also hire people with disabilities quite a bit also.

I love Publix.

[csziggy]

51. Yes! And as soon as lines back up they open new ones

I grew up fifteen miles from where Publix started and can remember the first Publix store. When they opened one in my home town in the late 1950s it was a major event - I think that was Publix #4 or 5. Once Publix came to town Mom seldom shopped anywhere else. There was an Albertson's for a while but it was dirty, the produce was substandard, and the service was not as good.

They always ask if they can help you but a few times when I was really tired - and must have looked it - they have not taken "No" for an answer. At the one I shop most often, there is a sweet young man with disabilities that is always so nice when he bags my groceries. The other day I had on a shirt with warblers he said he liked my cardinal shirt but he was confused why none of them were red. I tired to explain that they were a different kind of bird but it just confused him more.

The last time I was there a manager bagged my stuff. Unfortunately she didn't do a very good job - over four bags, the cold items were split a few in each bag rather than being packed together, for instance. I'd rather have the young man who likes cardinal - he's a little slower but he knows how to pack the bags so like items are together!

What I like is that unlike some stores, Publix encourages their employees to engage with the customers. I've been at stores where the employees were expected to be "professional" and thus came across as cold. It's just not as nice to shop at those kinds of stores.

[Ilsa]

9. Can I just go to the grocery store to eat, then?

Carry in some wipes and water to rinse fruit and salad stuff. Chow down. Open a box of crackers, bread, fixins, make a sandwich. Kind of like Leonard Nimoy in the Bruno Mars video.

Buy a soda on the way out for dessert.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. I DEMAND THE RIGHT TO WAIT IN LINE FOR AN HOUR BEHIND ELDERLY COUPON ARGUMENT LADY!

Er, actually, no. I think it sounds like a great idea. Sorry.

[kcr]

35. That will appeal to the white working class! n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

61. I think not wanting wait in interminably long lines cuts across all demographic categories

but maybe I'm wrong.

[lunasun]

38. I can't wait . Service were I live is terrible and often quite discriminatory . If I can leave them

and customers resembling your post above behind and get out with a phone app, I am all for it . I perhaps wouldn't be this way if I didn't live the last few years around a lot of asshole trump types.
I'm sorry too

[pipi_k]

13. "A futuristic store without any cashiers"...

Well I'll tell ya...

judging from some of the stores I've been in, it doesn't look like all that many human cashiers would be losing their jobs because the lines are always backed up and it appears like they have to almost pull cashiers in off the street.

And some of those cashiers are downright surly.

I don't need happy little bluebirds that fart rainbows, but it's always nice when people can be halfway decent to the customers.

[The Genealogist]

45. Definitely depends on the store

I can cite two examples. I live near a grocery store. The staff is so morose there that I expect them to break out any time into "Skid Row" from "Little Shop of Horrors." Coupled with expired food on the shelves and a dingy interior, it makes me not want to shop there. Ever. The store I do my regular shopping at has very friendly staff; even the stockers will greet you and ask if you are finding everything. The store is clean and well lit. I am guessing management makes the difference.

[NightWatcher]

15. Adapt or die, right? It will take a while to get going industry wide.

So that's the warning to get adapting.

So much of my industry went online self service, but we've adapted within the industry and are getting by.

[metalbot]

16. I think the title is misleading

Automation is coming, and it's coming for a lot of jobs across the low to middle wage spectrum, with robotics on the low end and machine learning on the high end.

This isn't an amazon thing, it's a reality thing.

We as a society better be headed towards basic income, or we're going to be in trouble.

[HughBeaumont]

28. Well . . . . . "here comes trouble", then . . . .

Last edited Wed Dec 7, 2016, 09:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Buzzwords and vague brush-offs like "innovation", "new industries", "risk-taking", "start your own business", "education is the key" aren't going to solve the problem of millions with absolutely no potential to collect a paycheck. Multiply economic regression by millions upon millions of citizens and, sorry to break this to you, you're going to have a heaping biblical problem on your hands that's likely going to turn bloody and ugly. If we're proposing every generation from now on will have to work until they're gurneyed out while throwing our kids to an economic environment that offers such minimal opportunity to succeed (with an enormous entrance fee, of course) . . . that's not much to look forward to. That's going to lead to cataclysm and murders. How can we avoid this?

[alarimer]

44. And this "innovation" is not going to happen in east middle-of-nowhere Wisconsin

Or any other rural areas. As you said, there are millions for whom there will be no work. Even if they can be retrained, what are they going to do in the middle of nowhere? These amazing new opportunities will be somewhere else. I mean, how much artisanal mayonnaise do we really need?

I'm afraid it is going to turn ugly (well uglier). I don't understand why so many so-called liberals don't get this. I guess they are all insulated from the reality and they will just blame racism, rather than our politics of the last 30 years. Now, we are just arguing about how best to resurrect the Democratic Party. It may not matter if there is no political solution. A decent social safety net would help defuse things, I think, but in the end: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." JFK.

I don't think anyone has the answers for this, not even Sanders. I don't think anyone can bring decent jobs back, or at least not enough of them. So a guaranteed basic income sounds better and better, if only because it might prevent a great upheaval.

[HughBeaumont]

47. They can't even answer the glaring problem of how a debt-strapped millennial buys things.

May seem like a simple issue, but this is our future.

How does Capitalism continue if there's a dearth of gainfully employed people to make it happen? That brings up another problem . . . with no revenue coming in BECAUSE millions of people AREN'T gainfully employed, WHERE is the money going to COME from to FUND a Universal Basic Income? Does anyone think the rich are going to stand for paying a 75% tax with no loopholes allowed to fund "LAZY PARASITES AND CLOCK-MILKERS"?

Nobody even cares. They just think "oh, la la la, let's offshore and automate all the jobs and be a nation where everyone does each others hair and sells each other stuff and competes and risks and everything will work itself out LA LA LA LA LA!!" It simply amazes me that we have THIS many deluded idiots believing the trickle-up fairy tales and pie-in-the-sky "solutions" Republicans dismissively offer. You can't pay bills with the hypothetical success of a crapshoot. It just doesn't work that way.

[Locrian]

56. yep - well said

Add in climate change an dwindling resources, completion for the remaining resources (food, air, energy, water) - it's going to get a LOT uglier unless we stop playing the zero sum game and learn to cooperate.

[killbotfactory]

17. This is a sign of things to come. Next up, white-collar office workers.

We either get a universal basic income to supplement our wages and every just works less (the horror), or we devolve into a dystopian shithole.

[kcr]

37. Yep. No one gives a shit because people stopped caring a long time ago.

Everything is about marketing, including our politics. It's going to be a dystopian shithole unless people decide to care and choose otherwise.

[HughBeaumont]

42. More people are starting to come around to this eventuality.

Don't get me wrong, Universal Basic Income is going to be necessary as long as the moronic brain surgeon fucks who run our industries have the mindset that any job not automated or offshored (except their own, of course) represents Communism winning . . . or something.

I mean, never mind the fact that products and services being purchased require this thing called "a gainfully employed population with disposable income" to happen; not really seeing how capitalism survives with that being taken out of the equation.

The problem is, there are another group of moronic brain surgeon fucks (lobbied and funded by the first set of brain surgeons) known as "Republican and Third Way Congressdumbasses" that would never in a thousand years enact something that represents Konstantin Chernenko winning . . . or something . . .

See, too many people think reasonable people run America. THEY DON'T and November 8th proved it. Today's Democrats are economic Republicans, today's conservative is Dubya on steroids and hallelucinogens and today's CEOs all learned their craft from Milton Friedman, Martin Feldstien, St. Ronald Wilson Reagan and Chainsaw Al Dunlap.

They would rather see us starve and die on ice floes than lift finger ONE to help us. We're expected to just rugged individualize our own futures . . . . lack of patronage, privilege, luck, resources and time be damned, it's expected to JUST HAPPEN and if it doesn't, it's our fault for not trying hard enough and that's that. That's the way America and it's Crapitalism works. I don't like it anymore than anyone else, but I'm not one ounce optimistic that people are going to change for the better. I'm just not.

[Statistical]

19. Automation is a reality of life and it 'could' be a wonderful thing.

The only problem is we refuse politically to adapt to it. Technology which free people from the bondage of a meaningless repetitive job is a great thing. However society needs to change. UBI would be a great first step. Imagine how many new ideas and ventures people could come up with if not forced to bag groceries or risk being homeless.

[workinclasszero]

22. Within ten or 15 years

These jobs will all go away.

Where are all those millions of people going to work?

[HughBeaumont]

29. Well, they won't. They're not getting any money either.

They'll starve and then die.

Bleak? Sorry, that's who America put in office. That's who America thinks is "great". That's who America looks up to, because they NEVER think THEY'LL be the ones on the chopping block.

To institute a Universal Basic Income would be admitting error. That's the cardinal SIN of Republican politics - admitting that everything you were taught and are teaching is wrong. And that's simply why it's NEVER going to happen . . . because that would make them (cringe, shudder, go into convulsions) LIBERAL.

Our futures are not THEIR problem. Our futures are OUR problem. You try and physically stop them, their police and military (and make no mistake about it . . . it's THEIR police and military. It always HAS been) will blood-dust you and not lose an ounce of sleep over it. That's why they are who they are; because there is not a single thing that we can do to stop it.

[Vinca]

30. But how will the robot know the piece of salmon you're returning is really rotten?

We need to start an anti-automation movement. No wonder we're all out of touch with each other if we never have to interact.

[Kilgore]

32. Look up the definition of luddite

[Vinca]

34. I don't have to look up the definition. We Luddites read.

I prefer a nice hardcover book myself.

[IADEMO2004]

31. Shit. Saturday night grocery shopping is my main social event.

[get the red out]

36. I prefer Kroger's new service

I often shop online with the Kroger app, then go to the store at a scheduled time to pick up my groceries. There are generally three people who bring me my groceries to the car, and take my payment. I am sure people stay busy gathering up people's pick-up orders as well.

If Amazon requires my physical presence in the store to shop, they are already behind the times, IMO.

[brooklynite]

40. The don't require it; but they recognize the brick and mortar is still a "thing"

SOme people prefer to shop that way; and they're tapping in to that market.

[brooklynite]

41. Remember the good old days of the Soviet Union?

You stood in one line to order something, stood in a second line to pay for it, and stood in a third line to pick it up.

Jobs for all!

[HughBeaumont]

43. Unbridled Capitalism or Soviet Russia.

Do any of those lines contain "reasonable happy mediums"?

[LisaM]

46. Wow, these responses.

So much for keeping in touch with the working class. This idea sounds awful. And Amazon Fresh is annoying, too. At the apartment where I live, a lot of people use this and their delivery truck just plunks down in the left turn lane out front with its blinkers on for 10 or 15 minutes. And they only seem to have one person per truck when it would be faster and easier with two.

I don't really mind waiting in line for a few minutes but I have noticed that grocery store employees are less well trained than they used to be back when they had unions in most of them.

People give lip service to the concept of good jobs but don't seem to want to exert themselves on any level to support them.

[SubjectiveLife78]

54. It's coming

It's already here. It's not about keeping in touch with just the working class. Jobs in any industry are in danger. It's not about lip service, or unions, or how employees are trained. If the employees aren't necessary, none of that amounts to anything.

[LisaM]

57. So there's a disconnect between people who think the Dems are out of touch

and people - many, apparently - on this website alone who see no problem with pushing millions and millions out of work so they don't have to engage with anyone at a grocery store or pay ten cents more a pound for potatoes.

When I first moved to Seattle, most of the grocery stores had union employees. I knew the ladies in the Safeway down the street - Marie and Rowena - and they knew us, and my BF's grandmother, who started shopping at that Safeway when it opened in the 1950s. They always smiled, they didn't need ID for checks, they always asked after Oma (as we called) her, and they also both made decent money, had worked their way up, and ended up retiring comfortably.

Why on earth do we want to give this up? How can we be a functioning society if we don't provide jobs for people? The money we spend on groceries needs to go somewhere. Are we just going to give up and let it all go to shareholders and executives? Because that's where it goes.

[metalbot]

62. It's not about wanting to give it up

It's about where the future is going and what the herd is collectively willing to do about it.

If we as a society value the interactions that we have with humans when we shop, then we'll pay a premium to shop with humans. If we don't value that, or if we value it at less than we value potential savings, we'll shop with robots. At some point, if not enough people value the human interaction, then the human interaction won't be an option due to insufficient demand.

Personally, I don't value human interaction when shopping. I'd rather go to a website, order what I want, and have it delivered, preferably by someone I don't have to talk to. On the other hand, I'm not unsympathetic to the notion that people need jobs, and that what I'm doing hurts those jobs. The only logical solution is to support the idea of universal income, under which my ethical dilemma is partially solved.

[JI7]

64. the reason this would be successful is because Working Class would use it also

[LisaM]

70. Ugh.

If you're going to get up and go to the store anyway, wouldn't you rather have it staffed by decently-paid people that you know?

[MineralMan]

48. Well, as my wife says,

"Soon, there will only be Amazon when you want to buy something."

She may be right, to some extent. The local supermarket I use most of the time always has long checkout lines, because they refuse to keep enough checkers on hand. Because of that, I usually use the self checkout system, which lets me check my own groceries and pay. I can do it faster than any checker currently employed by that store.

On the other hand, I'm more than aware that such systems hurt employment. If the store had enough checkers on duty to prevent lines six deep, I'd use the checkout aisles. It doesn't though, so I do it myself.

That store has never bagged groceries, so that's on me, as well. Interestingly, at the self checkout, my purchases go directly from being scanned into a bag, saving one handling of the items.

Many people will not use these automated Amazon stores, either from inability to cope with the system to the probably low depth of product such stores are likely to have. I won't use them, either. I'll continue to go to a supermarket where empty shelves are constantly restocked and that have an extensive selection of products.

But, my wife is still right. I use Amazon online for pretty much all other purchases.

[LisaM]

52. After reading how they treat people at their warehouses

I just can't. That's all I can think about when I see an Amazon box, people being run off their feet to meet expanding quotas, not to mention being searched every time they punch in or out. Of course they probably want to get rid of even those crappy jobs.

[suffragette]

60. Agree, see my post below.

[pipi_k]

67. Don't know how many

clothing manufacturers are left in the US, but back in the 80s I worked for one of them that made kids' clothing under different labels.

It was like working in a prison. Luckily, I was only an office slave, and didn't have to undergo the daily search lines before I could leave the building. Yes, the actual sweatshop workers...all of them women, and most of them either Italian or Hispanic because of the location of the factory, had to line up to be searched before they could go home. Because...god forbid...they could smuggle out a few spools of thread or a pair of scissors.

I was downstairs in the offices. People hated their jobs and the place was miserable to work in. No fear of us office slaves stealing a bottle of white-out or a couple of pencils...no...the supply closet was locked at all times except when we needed something and then we had to fill out tons of request forms before we could get it, so needing too many erasers would have led to interrogation as to WHY.

It's closed now...probably went overseas or something.

But anyway, I see so many people putting down Amazon for treating their workers like animals.

Well, here's a list of ten companies worse than Amazon. Which isn't to say that working at Amazon is a walk in the park, but it's also not the biggest villain in the world either.


http://listverse.com/2015/08/24/10-companies-that-treat-their-employees-even-worse-than-amazon/

[Yavin4]

49. You will always need people to fight wars.

That's where we are headed.

[gollygee]

50. I wish I could tell people there's a way to stop automation, but there isn't

There's huge money in it and no legal way to keep businesses from doing it.

We have to move to a universal income so that people who can't find jobs because of things like automation don't starve to death.

[LisaM]

69. But a universal income on top of basic benefits

The only proposals I have seen would give a national income, then compensate by making it cover things like healthcare and food. So there'd be a net loss to the recipient.

[ksoze]

53. What's a "Cashier"? Have not seen one for a while. Nor a gas pump attendant.

There are more self-service lanes at grocery stores where I go. And its a PIA. This will at least make the lack of cashiers work better. Need to get with the times - cashiers are being replaced by us and automation like Amazons will at least make it more tolerable.

[matt819]

55. Mixed feelings

I generally avoid the self-service checkouts because it almost never goes smoothly. Maybe Amazon can fix this problem its proposed system. Maybe not. Some questions.

Will the robots clean up in Aisle 5?

Will the robots stock all the shelves? How do route sales people fit in? Or, more important, who will stock the beer?

Will the robots deal with the fresh produce?

Who will slice your cold cuts and cheese and bread?

Who will tell me where the fucking Veggie Wash is?

Maybe there will be a reallocation of the workforce, and some positions may be eliminated. This sucks, but that's the way things are going. But there are, according to a google search, 38,000 supermarkets in the US. It's a vast market, and perhaps Amazon stores will appeal to part of that market. But I think it might be a bit early to panic. Remember the Amazon drone delivery?

[sarcasmo]

58. Elon Musk is right, humans will need a guaranteed monthly income.

[suffragette]

59. Dire news for occupations with highest employment in the U.S.

This won't just be about Amazon built stores. Amazon will likely use these as proof of concept and license the technology to others.

They'll at least need security to monitor line coming into store and people coming out for payment.

Yet another area where security monitoring becomes an everyday dominant experience.

More money for CEOs and more financial insecurity for a large number of citizens.

For employees currently at Amazon who are testing this, their job, health care and now grocery purchases are all maintained by the company that employs them. How will Amazon use/abuse this data?



http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2016/retail-salespersons-and-cashiers-were-occupations-with-highest-employment-in-may-2015.htm

Retail salespersons and cashiers were occupations with highest employment in May 2015
MARCH 31, 2016
Retail salespersons (4.6 million) and cashiers (3.5 million) were the occupations with the highest employment in May 2015. Combined, these two occupations made up nearly 6 percent of total U.S. employment. Annual mean wages were $26,340 for retail salespersons and $20,990 for cashiers. Office and administrative support was the largest occupational group, making up nearly 16 percent of total U.S. employment. Annual mean wages for workers in this group were $36,330.


Employment and annual mean wages for largest occupations, May 2015
Occupation Employment Annual mean wage Percent of total employment
Retail salespersons
4,612,510 $26,340 3.3%
Cashiers
3,478,420 $20,990 2.5
Combined food preparation and serving workers, including fast food
3,216,460 $19,710 2.3
Office clerks, general
2,944,420 $31,890 2.1
Registered nurses
2,745,910 $71,000 2.0
Customer service representatives
2,595,990 $34,560 1.9
Waiters and waitresses
2,505,630 $23,020 1.8
Laborers and freight, stock, and material movers, hand
2,487,680 $27,840 1.8
Secretaries and administrative assistants, except legal, medical, and executive
2,281,120 $35,200 1.7
Janitors and cleaners, except maids and housekeeping cleaners
2,146,880 $26,180 1.6
General and operations managers
2,145,140 $119,460 1.6
Stock clerks and order fillers
1,934,060 $25,940 1.4
Heavy and tractor-trailer truck drivers
1,678,280 $42,500 1.2
Bookkeeping, accounting, and auditing clerks
1,580,220 $38,990 1.1
First-line supervisors of office and administrative support workers

[RB TexLa]

63. It makes me think about this horrible job killer

Think how many jobs these machines have destroyed!

[meadowlander]

68. Next week's headline:

epidemic of shop-lifting at Amazon grocery stores. Amazon responds with innovative new technology to microchip bananas with only a marginal increase in price for consumers.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

71. goddamn mexican and chinese stealing all our jobs. how dare they?

The repeal of NAFTA will fix this real fast.

(dear jury, this is clearly sarcasm)