Anti-Semitism at My University, Hidden in Plain Sight

[oberliner]

Providence, R.I. — Last semester, a group came to Providence to speak against admitting Syrian refugees to this country. As the president of the Brown Coalition for Syria, I jumped into action with my peers to stage a counterdemonstration. But I quickly found myself cut out of the planning for this event: Other student groups were not willing to work with me because of my leadership roles in campus Jewish organizations.

That was neither the first nor the last time that I would be ostracized this way. Also last semester, anti-Zionists at Brown circulated a petition against a lecture by the transgender rights advocate Janet Mock because one of the sponsors was the Jewish campus group Hillel, even though the event was entirely unrelated to Israel or Zionism. Ms. Mock, who planned to talk about racism and transphobia, ultimately canceled. Anti-Zionist students would rather have no one speak on these issues than allow a Jewish group to participate in that conversation.

Of course, I still believe in the importance of accepting refugees, combating discrimination, abolishing racist law enforcement practices and other causes. Nevertheless, it’s painful that Jewish issues are shut out of these movements. Jewish rights belong in any broad movement to fight oppression.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/opinion/sunday/anti-semitism-at-my-university-hidden-in-plain-sight.html?_r=0

[Nye Bevan]

1. Some microaggressions are more equal than others,

it would appear.

[oberliner]

2. Indeed

It is disturbing to see how this has played out for many Jewish students on a variety of college campuses (and other settings).

[JI7]

3. this is fucked up and a serious problem among many on the left

It's almost like this is their way to prove how pure they are.

In reality it's just bigotry .

[oberliner]

6. Agreed

And some people on the far left seem not to want to address it (or worse, they excuse it).

[smirkymonkey]

30. +1000

It's so wrong and very discouraging to see this kind of behavior on the left.

[Adrahil]

4. The author...

Seems to equate anti-Zionism with Antisemitism. While I would agree there is lots of Antisemitism, I think it is important to separate it from anti-Zionism.

[oberliner]

5. No, the author does not do that

But the author does acknowledge that antisemitism does sometimes manifest itself under the guise of anti-Zionism.

Anti-Zionists ought to do a better job of making sure that they separate themselves from anti-semitism - this does not happen as often as it should.

[Adrahil]

8. I would agree to an extent

I do think many Antisemites try to cloak themselves as "mere" Anti-zionists.

I think anti-zionists need to be extremely clear about the separation.

But as someone who very much opposed to Antisemitism, but also very critical of the State of Israel, I am
Sensitive to the conflation of the terms.

[oberliner]

17. Fair enough

But this article raises issues unrelated to Israel and Zionism, such as this point:

For example, non-Jewish students at Brown tell me that I cannot appreciate a history of marginalization because, as they see it, Jews have historically been a powerful group, the Holocaust being the only few years of exception. They play down the temporal and geographic scope of that history so that the oppression appears circumstantial rather than global and systemic.

I would point out that Jews are subject to hate crimes at fairly alarming rates around the world, including in the United States.

In fact, with the rise of Trump there seem to be no end of Jew-haters on Twitter spouting anti-semitism at any Hillary supporter with a Jewish sounding name.

[leftynyc]

48. Wait a minute

That article says that college students - at a premiere ivy league school - think the holocaust is the only time that Jews have been discriminated against? How fucking ignorant are college students these days?

[Albertoo]

35. Is there a definition of "anti-zionism"?

Assuming it was indeed possible to find "anti-zionists" who are not just plain antisemitic
(antisemitic in the sense anti-Jews, I know Arabs are semites),

is there a definition of "anti-zionism" that would not mean most Jews expelled from Israel?

Because Hamas, Iran or the Muslim Brotherhood all want to expel the Jews.
Unless Jews are happy to accept dhimmi status, something very doubtful.

[JI7]

7. that's crap and just an exuse people use to defend their bigotry

[Adrahil]

9. Do you think they are the same? NT

[JI7]

10. what the fuck does keeping a transgeder activist from speaking on transgender

Issues have to do with zionism israel etc ?

[Adrahil]

11. I didn't say anything about that....

easy... I agree with the author on most of the points made. I just pointed out something I have seen frequently. You don't have to agree. It's not compulsory. But there's no need to blow your stack either.

[JI7]

12. If you read the article that was the point made

Yet you tried to do the whole zionost v semitism thing.

[Adrahil]

13. What are you implying?

C'mon... don't dance around it.

I'm not "trying" anything. I do not like conflation of the terms. That's it. End of what I'm doing.

[JI7]

14. i think a lot of anti semites try to use anti zionism as cover for their bigotry

Preventing he transgender activist from speaking being a good example

[Adrahil]

15. Okay, we can agree on that.

I agree that it happens, and I do think that Antisemites cloaking themselves as Anti-Zionists should be called out.

However, more than once I've been called an Antisemite for my criticism of the modern state of Israel. I want to be sure that the subjects are kept separate. My criticism of Israel is political. Not ethnically or religiously-based.

[oberliner]

21. What do you think is the best way to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Do you support a particular approach and/or solution?

[Adrahil]

22. I support a two-state solution.

I think the formation of Israel was wrong in how it was done, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Israelis and Palestinians must be able to live side by side.

The illegal settlements must be reversed, however.

[oberliner]

23. Check this out

http://www.geneva-accord.org/

[Adrahil]

24. Very nice.... Here's hoping it catches on.

Those people have suffered long enough.

[romanic]

16. Palestine and Arab causes are the cause du jour of the left.

Rooting for Palestine is cool and progressive, rooting for Israel and Jewish people is not. That's pretty much how it is.

[Exilednight]

19. Being Jewish and being Israeli are not the same thing.

I'm firmly against anti-Semitism, but I refuse to support a country that continually breaks treaties as they take land that doesn't belong them.

What Israel is doing to Palestinians is no different than what Americans did to native Americans.

[oberliner]

20. Which treaties has Israel broken?

Just curious to know what treaties you are referencing.

I would also point out that the OP deals with issues of antisemitism that are unrelated to Israel.

Edit to add: "What Israel is doing to Palestinians is no different than what Americans did to native Americans." - you can't possibly actually mean this literally, can you?

[Exilednight]

27. Google illegal settlements in Israel.

[oberliner]

29. Fair enough

Last edited Mon Oct 3, 2016, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)

The international consensus is definitely that the settlements are in violation of international agreements.

I thought you meant treaties that Israel has with individual countries (such as Jordan and Egypt).

I think it's impressive that they have held up for so many years (on both sides).

Here's hoping for peace and happiness to all peoples of the region and the world!

[GulfCoast66]

25. So tell me which treaty they have broken?

The one they signed with Egypt they have strictly maintained even when they could have cheated.

Now some of us who are not into the leftist cause de jour remember another treaty that almost happened. It was overseen by President Bill Clinton. It would have created a Palestinian State recognized by Israel and the rest of the world. It looked like a done deal and would have resulted in peace in the middle east and a Noble Prize for Bill.

And it was at that time that many people realized that it was all bullshit on the part of the Palestinian leadership, starting with Yasser Arafat. Because he walked away from the deal. And why? Because the Arab world need Israel to remain the enemy to distract their people from how shitty their own governments treated them. And that Arab world financed Arafat. And even more important, Arafat did not want to end up like Anwar Sadat, killed by Islamic nuts for signing the peace treaty with Israel.

Israel is the one democracy in the area. And when people say they hate Zionism, that means they hate the whole concept of a modern Jewish state.

I do not like the Israel leadership right now. But there is no doubt they are surrounded by people that want them dead or gone. When they have signed treaties they have kept them. And they have negotiated in good faith only to have their adversaries walk away from the negotiation at the last minute in a show of bad faith.

Why the hell should they give anything to people sworn to their destruction.

Israel is liberal, the rest of the Arab world is regressive. That should be the determining factor for people on the left.

[Exilednight]

28. Israel is liberal? You can't be serious.

Bibi is more right-wing than our conservatives.

As far as treaties, just Google illegal settlements in Israel. As far as the article goes, it's pure speculation. The author offers no concrete facts. It sounds more like an op-ed than a piece of journalism.

[GulfCoast66]

32. Compared to the EU, no way

Compared to all their neighbors, including both Palestinian states they look like the paragon of virtue.

It is getting really hard to make Israel look bad compared to ALL their neighbors.

[Marr]

34. That's why it's hard for me to give much credence to criticisms of Israel.

Given the antisemitic fervor that's present all around them, it's absurd to expect them not to take draconian positions on national security. I mean, if the Mexican and Canadian presidents made regular rants about destroying the United States, and sent suicide bombers our at regular intervals, I expect things would look a bit different here, too.

[Exilednight]

40. I'm with Obama when it comes to his criticism of Israel.

Israel is also a very poor ally to have in the middle-east. They can offer no militarry or diplomatic support when it comes to the middle-east, and we must constantly defend them.

They have absolutely zero to offer us in the way of commodities that are in high demand and we constantly subsidize the few low demand commodities that they do have.

[leftynyc]

49. That computer you're posting from

got a majority of its parts and technology from Israel. Would you also like a list of the scientific and medical advances this "have absolutely zero to offer us" entity has brought to you? Compared to its neighbors, Israel is a bright star and contrary to your BS above, has adhered to every treaty it has ever signed.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. No, it is you who can't be serious.

So "Bibi" is conservative (more "right-wing" than our conservatives?! Have you been watching the news?), it doesn't indicate all of Israel is not liberal.

Pure speculation? Offers no concrete facts? Seriously? Did you actually read the article? From the article:

Other student groups were not willing to work with me because of my leadership roles in campus Jewish organizations.

...a lecture by the transgender rights advocate Janet Mock because one of the sponsors was the Jewish campus group Hillel,...

Jews (who are the most frequent targets of religiously motivated hate crimes in the United States)

Even hummus has become politicized

"It sounds more like an op-ed than a piece of journalism." Uh, it is an op-ed piece. But what a "creative" way to be dismissive.

[Exilednight]

39. I read the editorial and fact checked it.

One by one.

Other student groups were not willing to work with me because of my leadership roles in campus Jewish organizations.

Where is the person's proof? No quote, no transcript, in essence the author offers nothing to back up their accusation.

...a lecture by the transgender rights advocate Janet Mock because one of the sponsors was the Jewish campus group Hillel,...

The author confuses anti-zionism with anti-Semitism. Hillel could have dropped their sponsorship and all would have been good.

Jews (who are the most frequent targets of religiously motivated hate crimes in the United States)

You should follow the authors own link. It clearly states how some crimes are reported as against Jewish people, even though they're not. Basically the author took the word a very flawed study. It also says the study found that hate crimes against Jewish people are on a steady decline, while hate crimes against Muslims is steadily rising.

All of this propaganda is the very reason I moved out of Israel and back to America.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. Sure, ok.

"Where is the person's proof? No quote, no transcript, in essence the author offers nothing to back up their accusation. "

Yeah, you fact checked this. And you accomplished this how? Oh that's right, there wasn't a mile-long paper trail for you to approve ad 'declare' "factual", therefore, to you, it didn't happen.

"The author confuses anti-zionism with anti-Semitism. Hillel could have dropped their sponsorship and all would have been good. "

No, that would be you. Demanding a JEWISH group drop its sponsorship for something that didn't have jack shit to do with Israel is anti-Semitism. So, once again, we see the conflating of Israel and Jews, thereby allowing people to be comfortable in dismissing anti-Semitism by claiming it is something else.

"You should follow the authors own link. It clearly states how some crimes are reported as against Jewish people, even though they're not. Basically the author took the word a very flawed study. It also says the study found that hate crimes against Jewish people are on a steady decline, while hate crimes against Muslims is steadily rising. "

You should read the stats from the FBI. With regards to population size and hate crimes, Jews (followed by gay men, then AA) are the three most targeted groups. Hate crimes against Muslims isn't the topic, but the predictable "jingling of keys", the "hey! look over there!" move is very tired and, as I said, oh so predictable. The mantra of some..."mustn't discuss anti-Semitism at all costs!"

The fact you label a discussion about anti-Semitism, "propaganda", pretty much demonstrates the premise of the article.

Goes to show the "Animal Farm" principle is in full effect in regards anti-Semitism: "All bigotry is equal. But, some bigotry is more equal."

Hummus.

[Exilednight]

42. it's amusing you call me an anti-Semite. You know nothing about me.

Exactly how many years have you been an Israeli citizen, and how long did you live there?

I'm really curious to know what first hand experience you have.

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Please, do point to where I called YOU an anti-Semite?

Oh wait...I did nothing of the sort!

Being an Israeli citizen has SHIT to do with the discussion about anti-Semitism. However, I am a Jew and quite experienced with anti-Semitism, including studying it.

Keep trying to change the subject. That tactic does not work on me.

Anti-Semitism is the topic. Anti-Semitism is bigotry. Anti-Semitism is worthy of discussion and worthy of battling against and calling it out.

[Exilednight]

44. Right here where you accused me of an act of ant-Semitism.

No, that would be you. Demanding a JEWISH group drop its sponsorship for something that didn't have jack shit to do with Israel is anti-Semitism.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. That is NOT calling YOU an anti-Semite.

Nice try.

The act is anti-Semitic. Demanding a Jewish group sponsorship BECAUSE it is a Jewish group is bigoted.

Being an anti-Semite is much more than a single, ignorant demand in a biased post. I am not the one throwing around accusations of people being an anti-Semite, you are.

ETA: As a Jew, what have been your experiences with anti-Semitism? Havre you [I}ever experienced anti-Semitism? Witnessed it? Studied it?

[Exilednight]

46. You're attempting guilt by association.

"hey, your posts are anti-Semitic, but you're not, exilednight."

If you want to argue on the merits, then begin with providing evidence to support the author's claims.

I played out my argument, but you've provided nothing concrete to dispose of them.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. Wrong...again.

It isn't "guilt by association", it was YOUR suggestion! Just because you made a suggestion which is bigoted in nature doesn't mean you are a bigot by nature; it's called nuance.

The support for the author's claims are already there, you just refuse to acknowledge them. The Janet Mock incident was even posted here at Du as was a few of the hummus "incidents". Since YOU are the one having trouble with the veracity, I suggest YOU look because I doubt I could ever provide anything YOU would find "acceptable".

You have "played out" nothing! The only thing you have "played" is that anti-Semitism isn't an issue, even less so if Israel is the topic.

So, as a Jew, what experience do you have with anti-Semitism?!

[Exilednight]

54. As a 1/2 black person with a Jewish father who was a civil rights lawyer

I've had Molotov cocktails tossed at my house, swastikas painted on my car and house along with enough death threats that I actually had to have state police protection when I started junior high up thru my first year of college, seven years total.

I, also, split time living between Israel and the states, rotating back and forth every three months, after spending the first three in Israel exclusively, for eleven years.

You're first hand experience is what?

[Behind the Aegis]

56. As a gay person with a father who was an EEO for many years...

I was threatened with murder for being a "Christ killer", I was made to sit in the hallway during holiday parties, my religious holidays counted against me, swastikas scratched into my residence hall door, death treats, twice resulting in FBI protection (junior year in college required agents to follow me for three weeks), and various other anti-Semitic taunts from passing cars, and posters.

I have only lived in the US, so I am personally unfamiliar with anti-Semitism in Israel.

[leftynyc]

51. BTA did NOT call you an anti semite

In one post you proved this entire article right on the money.

[leftynyc]

50. Why the fuck should Hillel

have dropped their sponsorship because some ASSHOLES had a problem with a Jewish organization (not Israeli, JEWISH) doing the sponsoring. And if you did 5 fucking seconds of research, you'd know your pathetic statement that crimes against Jews was going down (it's absolutely NOT going down) was nothing but wishful thinking.

[Exilednight]

53. They're Israeli, not Jewish. They will not sponsor, in fact they will actively

go against, anyone who criticises Israel.

Kind of goes against everything higher education is suppose to be about. Talk about hypocritical.

[leftynyc]

58. BULLSHIT

They are a JEWISH organization - the largest in the world and they were founded in 1923 - BEFORE ISRAEL EVEN EXISTED. Either you're lying or woefully uninformed - but it's causing you say things that are quite simply not true. Do a little research next time and you wont be in the position of not only believing lies but trying to spread them on DU.


Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life (simply known as Hillel International or Hillel) is the largest Jewish campus organization in the world, working with thousands of college students globally. Hillel's stated mission is "to enrich the lives of Jewish undergraduate and graduate students so that they may enrich the Jewish people and the world".[1] In practical terms, campus Hillel foundations engage Jewish students in religious, cultural, artistic, and community-service activities. Hillel is represented at more than 550 colleges and communities throughout North America and globally, including 30 communities in the former Soviet Union, nine in Israel, and five in South America.[2] The organization is named for Hillel the Elder, a Jewish sage who moved from Babylonia to Judea in the 1st century and is known for his formulation of the Golden Rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_International

[Exilednight]

60. Sure. and their ban on anti+Israeli speakers is not pro-Israel?

[leftynyc]

64. Moving goalposts is the

surest way to admit you're losing the argument. So now any group that is merely pro-Israel (and not Israeli as you first charged) is suspect and shouldn't be allowed to sponsor events? Given that the VAST majority of Democrats AND Americans are pro-Israel, why should a teeny minority that hates them get to decide that? Hillel and any other group that DARES to be pro-Israel shouldn't bend to the whims of the teeny minority you're part of.

[Exilednight]

65. I've moved no goalposts. I just find it intellectually dishonest that

anyone actually believes that Hallel is about advancing Jewish causes, when the only thing they've done in the past twenty years is silence critics of Israel.

[leftynyc]

67. What a load of horseshit

You obviously don't know crap about Hillel - you just keep spouting off garbage because you were made a fool of due to your own ignorance. That's entirely your problem. Meanwhile, you obviously still think any Jewish group that doesn't hate Israel shouldn't be allowed to sponsor events - time to look within your own heart and soul and discover why that may be.

[Exilednight]

68. It's not about their words, it's about their actions.

They actually sued a charter group of theirs who sponsored a pro Jewish, anti-Israeli current government critic.

That's true ignorance.

The charter group eventually left their umbrella.

[leftynyc]

69. Awww - how adorable of you

to judge an entire group with a history of almost 100 years with one event. Well done!!!!! And I maintain what is patently obvious, you don't know shit about Hillel.

[Exilednight]

70. Awwww, how adorable of you

to show your ignorance on the issue. There's been more than one action. I just chose that one as an example.

[leftynyc]

71. LOL

You should really stop embarrassing yourself - first making outlandish claims about an organization you so obviously don't know anything about, moving goalposts when caught in your ignorance. It's almost hard to watch.

[Exilednight]

72. You should take your own advice.

You swore up and down that they're not pro-Israel, even when you're shown that they stifle speech against anyone who criticises Israel.

People with enlightened minds can separate Israeli politics from Jewish issues.

Using the argument that being anti-Israeli policy is equal to being anti-Jewish is no better than Republicans saying that being against conservative causes is anti-American.

[JI7]

26. it's very similar and there is a connection. not all black people live in inner cities but we know

who people are referring to when they say certain things about inner cities. and it includes black people who don't live there either.

[MicaelS]

63. The "problem" of the Palestinians

Could have been solved a long time ago, if their Arab / Muslim brethren had given them citizenship, but they didn't. Instead they keep the Palestinians in a perpetual state of victimhood so they can use them to keep their own populations stirred up as a way to divert attention from all their own problems.

Any Palestinian who thinks they are going to return and reclaim land and property from Israelis is seriously deluded. Just like Cuban-Americans who think they're going to return to Cuba and reclaim property lost during the revolution.

Of course, is some on the Left didn't have Palestinians and Muslims as underdogs to champion, they would have to find other underdogs, or make one up.

[smirkymonkey]

31. You are right and it's really a terrible thing.

Do they have any idea how hypocritical this is?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

18. K&R here is a 5th recommendation to publicize Anti-Semitism

Holocaust Survivors and Remembrance Project: "Forget You Not"™
Check out this website:
http://isurvived.org/AUSCHWITZ_TheCamp.html

[Marr]

33. Oh definitely.

Anti-semitism is probably the only bigotry that's not just acceptable, but weirdly expected in some segments of the left, most notably the campus crowd.

I think it stems from the same place that the kneejerk defenses of Islam come from. It's this bizarre confluence of PC thinking and anti-establishment foreign policy.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. I stay out of most conversations about Israel with some "progressives", because there's way too much

bullshit.

First off, I think the occupation has been a serious error on Israel's part and I (unlike BDS) support a 2 state solution.

But too many on the "left" are stubbornly ignorant of the historical context that the occupation sprang out of, like the 6 day war, which I have had people here claim was an "act of unprovoked Israeli aggression". Sure, and Nasser bragging that he was going to kick the Jews into the sea just beforehand, was just a hallucination.

[font size=1] (Lebanese Newspaper Cartoon, during Arab military buildup prior to 6 day war)[/font]



And then you hear how Israel has "stolen land from Palestine"- errrr, there's never been a "Palestine", what is now the West Bank used to be "occupied" by Jordan (and Jordan treated the Palestinians terribly, by the way) and the Palestinians had multiple opportunities to create a state side by side with Israel, starting with the UN partition, but instead chose war. Never missed an opportunity, so they say, to miss an opportunity.

To the people will want to argue with this post- don't bother. Like I said, I'm not interested in debating it.

What matters, anyway, is where to go from here. Unfortunately, the voices working for a real solution - on either side- don't seem to have as much traction as they did in, say, the 1990s.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Summed up perfectly in the last paragraph...

These are serious issues, and social justice movements should be addressing them. I recognize my white, male and other privileges, and, accordingly, I listen to people of color, women and members of other marginalized groups and support them as allies. Likewise, I expect non-Jews at Brown and elsewhere to recognize our oppression to include us in efforts for change.

This is on display on so many "liberal/progressive" sites and it explains why so many are dismissive of anti-Semitism, even down to "disagreeing" on the definition, ranging from "it's about Semites" to "it is about how the person "feels" not what they say or do." So, when people can't even get the basic definition correct, it should be no fucking surprise people don't "see" anti-Semitism.

[guillaumeb]

52. Anti-Semitism should be identified and attacked.

But so should attempts to brand all criticism of the State of Israel as inherently and exclusively motivated by anti-Semitism.

What happened here is just as bad as attempts to brand the BDS movement as anti-Semitic.

[oberliner]

55. Fair points

I do agree with your point that "attempts to brand all criticism of the State of Israel as inherently and exclusively motivated by anti-Semitism" is wrong and should be called out.

I do think, though, that people should also acknowledge that sometimes such criticism is linked to anti-semitism, and folks ought to not be afraid to call that out when it is the case.

Similarly, one should feel comfortable pointing out anti-semitism within the BDS movement when it occurs (which it sometimes does).

I think one can look at each specific individual and comment and make the appropriate assessment.

For instance, saying that the Israeli settlements are illegal and should be dismantled is not in any way an antisemitic statement.

[guillaumeb]

61. 100% agreement on all points.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. How true.

One should also address anti-Semitism when it is used to "criticize" Israel, not pretend it is actually "something else" or pretend anti-Semitism isn't the motivation for some people/groups. It is no different than attacking Islamophobia, but attempts to brand all criticism of Palestine (or any Muslim-majority country) as inherently and exclusively motivated by Islamophobia.

What happened here is just as bad as attempts to paint anti-BDS groups as Islamophobic and racist.

[leftynyc]

59. Kind of difficult

when I'm battling someone right here who is so disgustingly ignorant of the facts, it's giving me a headache. Trying to convince DUers that Hillel is an Israeli organization even thought it was founded in 1923 - they're pushing either ignorance or lies. Dealing with abject ignorance is not something I think I should have to do here on DU but it seems they are very jazzed to prove the OP 100% correct.

[guillaumeb]

62. I think that Oberliner put it well.

[Mc Mike]

66. Jewish rights do belong in any broad movement to fight oppression.

I'm a non-Jewish person, but when I see any "lefty" or rightie being anti-semitic, that's an automatic sign they're with the bad guys, to me. It immediately sets all the alarms off. It's not worse than anti-Black, anti-Hispanic, anti-Woman, anti-Moslem, anti-Asian, or anti-LGBT prejudice, but it's equally as bad.

Seeing an attack on this small percentage group of our population is like seeing a sudden downturn in the population numbers of a key indicator species. It reflects a disproportionately large threat to our political and social ecology.

Being against Netanyahu, Likud, and the whacked out righties who assassinated Rabin doesn't translate into being able to say with any legitimacy that Jews are no good, and Israel is all bad. I do boycott Sabra hummus, but my brother in law uses anti-MS drugs that were invented in Israel. I love that nation's advances in drip irrigation, they made the desert bloom.

[Blue_Tires]

73. Disappointing, if true...

I always thought Brown a little more enlightened than that...