"Traditional Chinese Medicine" takes a big hit.

[Archae]

And it's about time.
There isn't any TCM to begin with, people use different mthods and plants and stuff in different areas in China.

Mao liked to push TCM because he claimed it was better than "Western medicine."
Like so much else about Mao, it was flat-out bullshit.

Actress who relied on TCM therapies dies of cancer

Chinese actress Kitty Xu Ting has been killed by lymphoma after choosing to use acupuncture, cupping, and other traditional Chinese treatments rather than chemotherapy. Press reports and her own blog indicate that she declined chemotherapy for reasons of cost, and fear of pain. However, the TCM treatment turned out to painful as well as ineffective. [Davy M. Chinese actress Xu Ting dies from cancer after choosing traditional Chinese medicine over chemo. The Straights Times, Sept 19, 2016] When Ting's condition worsened, she finally underwent chemotherapy but it was too late. [Palazzo C. Chinese actress' death sparks national debate over traditional medicine. The Telegraph Sept 16, 2016] At the time of her death, she was 25 years old.

http://www.straitstimes.com/lifestyle/entertainment/chinese-actress-xu-ting-dies-from-cancer-after-choosing-traditional-chinese

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/16/chinese-actress-death-sparks-national-debate-over-traditional-me/

[malaise]

1. I could name 50 people who opted for chemotherapy and also died

Cancer kills period. The lucky ones find out early and survive

[Siwsan]

3. I have little doubt that the chemo killed my sister faster than the cancer would have

The oncologists wore her down, treating her like a cash cow until they couldn't get away with it, anymore. She always had great trust in her doctors so she was the perfect target.

As for me, until for-profit medicine becomes a legal crime (I already think it is a moral one) I'll never really trust any physician.

[pinboy3niner]

6. I'm sorry you lost your sister, Siwsan

[Warpy]

7. Sometimes it does.

Palliative (comfort) care has been shown to extend life span in some people with the truly dire diagnoses like pancreatic cancer and some inoperable solid lung cancers. In addition, it doesn't ruin the time a person has left.

However, some people see life goals like seeing their children married off and getting that first grandchild and will submit to the most extreme heroics just to live long enough to achieve them. Sometimes the aggressive treatment works well enough that they do.

It's a choice that should be offered to every patient.

[malaise]

9. Mine too

[backscatter712]

22. Depends on the cancer, but chemotherapy can definitely improve your odds. n/t

[Avalux]

2. Acupuncture, cupping and herbal remedies are therapeutic for certain ailments.

Anyone who claims such things can cure cancer, or a bacterial or viral infection for that matter, is a quack. I had too many HIV positive patients go that route and lose their lives.

That said, I had an acupuncture treatment after injuring my hip and it gave me immediate relief. So for that it's good.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water; as in everything, there are gray areas.

[Archae]

5. "Gray?" seems black and white to me.

Whenever acupuncture, cupping, any of these Asian or Chinese "traditional" methods or medicines are given proper (as in peer-reviewed) scientific testing, they flop.

Every time.

http://skepdic.com/tcm.html

[pinboy3niner]

8. For minor ailments some Chinese remedies work

My wife had a growth like a wart under her thumbnail. American doctors, after prescribing several drug treatments that didn't work, told her she needed surgery that might affect the use of her thumb.

On a visit to Vietnam she went to an apothecary in Cholon, the Chinese section of Saigon, who mixed a concoction that cured the problem after ony a few applications.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. You're not seriously suggesting that anecdotal evidence should be taken seriously, are you?

If you want to make the case for TCM, or anything else, you need statistically significant evidence.

[pinboy3niner]

16. Of COURSE I'm not suggesting anything as a generalization

But to someone who always considered Chinese traditional medicine as nothing but woo, this experience was impressive--especially after the dire pronouncements of American doctors.

The guy in the Chinese-Vietnamese apothecary took one look and mixed some ingredients with a mortar and pestle and cured an ailment that American docs had tried, and were unable, to cure. How could I not be impressed by that?

But I didn't generalize from that. I just said that "some work" based on this experience and others that have been reported.

[Coventina]

10. My main complaint about "TCM" is that the ingredients seem to come from endangered species.

I grow tired of hearing about how this or that species being depleted because of its use in TCM.

Having said that, acupuncture did help my dog with her arthritis.
It didn't cure it, by any means, but it certainly helped with her mobility for a while.

[Wilms]

12. That OP fails college logic 101. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. TCM is mostly bullshit

If an herb chewed 5000 years ago for ailment X actually worked, there would be no ailment X today.

I have no doubt that certain of those herbs help with the shits or with headaches, but not with anything serious.

[backscatter712]

20. Ah, herbal medicine...

The correct thing to do, and has been done in many cases, is to put the herbal medicines through double-blind trials.

The ones shown to actually work, rather than just being placebos, simply get called "medicine".

[canetoad]

14. Naaah

How else are you going to 'expel stagnation' except by cupping

[MattBaggins]

15. Spooning

[Codeine]

17. Leeches, obviously.

Duh.

[backscatter712]

21. Gotta make sure your humours are in balance...

Go back to the 18th century - the latest "doctor" says arsenic is just the thing for cold symptoms.

[ismnotwasm]

23. We actually use leeches

In certain types of micro-vessel surgeries where something called "venous engorgement" becomes a problem. I don't mind it really but it's not my favorite thing to do. Little critters are wiggly.

The traditional "bloodletting" use is bogus of course.

[kimbutgar]

18. My Dad died from his body being weakened by the poison in chemotherapy.

[backscatter712]

19. Old-wives tales vs. double-blind scientific studies...

If I ever get cancer, I'm going with the proven treatments. Correctly dosed and administered chemotherapy does a hell of a lot better than herbs and spices and potpourri.

[MineralMan]

24. Any malady that will go away on its own can

be cured with TCM. Or with no treatment at all but letting time pass. Other ailments need scientific, tested treatment. Lives depend on that.