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cleveramerican

(2,895 posts)
Sun Sep 25, 2016, 04:42 PM Sep 2016

officer safety vs. public safety

If officer safety is a cops first priority
then public safety MUST come second.
this is what has become so clear to so many these last few weeks(months... years)
maybe it was alway this way and the public didn't fully know
Can this even be fixed, should it be?

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Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
2. That's not a clear explanation of it at all
Sun Sep 25, 2016, 05:34 PM
Sep 2016

Officers in fact on a daily basis place the safety of the general public above their own.

Any time officers respond to a call that has a report of a dangerous person or situation they are in fact doing that- moving themselves from a place of safety away from the incident to a position of more risk at the incident in order to contain it or end it to preserve the safety of the general public.

Now, when you are dealing with a criminal suspect at a scene, that is different than the "public". And even there cops do accept more risk, however there is a line and if the officer on scene perceives that the person is a threat of death or bodily harm to themselves or someone else than they always have the right to self defense.

Some of you may feel that is extreme- but you are wrong. In fact in most states a private citizen would have a right to self defense under the same situation if they perceive a threat. The big difference is that the private citizen has no obligation to go forward and get involved in situations like that and can just cut and run if they wish, but the police can't do that.

It's a highly complex, highly fluid dynamic that requires instant decision making under huge amounts of stress. I doubt most here could handle doing use of force simulations with simunitions and come anywhere close to handling things the way they think officers should, much less under the stress of the real world.

Igel

(35,332 posts)
3. There are two different ideas here for "public safety."
Sun Sep 25, 2016, 05:36 PM
Sep 2016

The first is, "If the policeman has to put himself at risk in order to save lives, should he?" Yes. That is part of the job description, whether it's taking on somebody who's a risk to the public or rescuing somebody. It's an ideal, however, and if a policeman fails to live up to the highest standard in this regard, well, he's still a human being. Self-sacrifice can be a touchy matter.

Notice that the value "self-sacrifice" is not one confined to the police. If a parent sees her offspring in danger, if a teacher sees her students in danger, if a Scout leader sees his charges in danger, self-sacrifice is one of the options that should be seriously considered.

It also pays to keep in mind that often when a policeman shoots somebody it's in order to protect the public. If an armed man is threatening somebody and he's shot, we don't usually see those videos. In fact, even when the man is shot we see the video, hear about how it's impossible for the guy to be armed, and then when it's clear he *was* armed we stick fingers in our ears and sing, loudly, la-la-la-la. Or we simply forget the details because, well, they're just not important, but retain the idea that this was another case that should provoke indignation. There were a couple such incidents over the summer, and even after it was clear the shooting was of an armed man who might well have been reaching for his weapon memories continued to say otherwise.


The second idea is, "If the policeman is personally threatened by a person, should he assume the risk of being shot simply in order to avoid injuring the other person"? I assume that nobody else is immediately involved.

Sure. The cop should avoid harm. But the standard has to be set much, much lower, because the policeman is also part of the public and he's not necessarily putting himself at risk to save an innocent. Moreover, if the policeman sees that he's in danger and may be shot, it's also got to be considered that having an armed man who just shot a cop walking down the street may not be best for public safety. "He's confused and mentally ill" is scant justification in this case. If he's confused and shoots a cop, he might stay confused and kill a kid. It still goes back to, "Do we even consider cops to count as 3/5 of a human being?" For many people, that 60% mark is aspirational, something they may finally achieve after decades of working on cultivating at least minimal regard for blue clothes.


Part of my response is due to a simple fact: We watch a video of an unarmed black man being shot by police and then the topic shifts, silently, to the idea that this doesn't happen to some other group *or* numbers are cited on how rampant shootings are but the numbers include *armed* black men. It sharply biases the discussion and it's even painful to point out that such posters are either dense or trying to trick and deceive those who want to be deceived because of the outrage that daring to question the accusations provokes.

There's another issue at hand, though, and that's one of trust and perception. Many assume that all things being equal, the cops should be regarded with extreme suspicion. They boldly claim that the opposite must be true: All things being equal, until the bullet actually leaves the gun and hits a cop, the cop must fully trust people, especially those who hold them in the highest suspicion and have no trouble insulting and abusing them. The dichotomy in views is extreme, and that kind of extremism is part of the problem. If you're convinced that the other side is out to get you, you regard the other person with extreme distrust and you assume that even misinformation spread about the side you distrust is true. This only makes sense. However it explains at least a portion of the unarmed black death rate and how cops are perceived to close ranks, not just the "community's" response to cops.

cleveramerican

(2,895 posts)
4. closing ranks happens on both sides
Sun Sep 25, 2016, 06:02 PM
Sep 2016

of course the chief initially backs up his cop
i would expect nothing less of my boss

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