Body cam and dash cam videos of the Scott shooting in NC. It was a BAD shoot!

[tblue37]

Body cam: look at the 28 second mark. There is no gun anywhere near Scott.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/charlotte-police-release-video-of-shooting-that-left-black-man-dead/ar-BBwAkWp?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Dash cam: look at the first 15 seconds. From the 11 second to the 15 second mark, he is backing away, with his hands hanging down by his sides. He doesn't lift his hands or arms, nor does he point anything at anyone before the shots are fired.

http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000004669386/police-footage-of-charlotte-shooting.html?smid=pl-share

I bet that the videos they have not released yet are even more damning!

[BootinUp]

1. I am doubtful there is any video that will enlighten us more than we know now

Here's what we know: The police saw him with a joint and a gun in his car. They yelled orders at him and he did not follow them. He made no threatening motions at the police as far as we know. He got out of his car and started moving backwards towards where his wife was. He received a volley of bullets and dies. There have been no statements about or video showing what he was doing with the gun. For all we know it was in the ankle holster.

[tblue37]

2. We don't actually *know* that the cops saw him with a joint and a gun in his car.

That is what the police say, but we have a lot of reasons to mistrust cop narratives in these kinds of shootings.

If they had any good evidence of these claims, I think they would be putting it out there.

The fact that these are the videos they chose to release, when apparently they have others, suggests that the other videos do even more to call the police narrative into question.

[uponit7771]

22. +1, he posed no immediate threat to anyone at the time they saw him roll a something to smoke

... that's clear in the video.

The CPD didn't know he was rolling a joint, they had no reason to suspect it was a joint other than what they saw and having a gun in NC in the open isn't against the law unless the person is black.

[Schema Thing]

3. It sure the fuck wasn't in his hands.

[Egnever]

7. I don't think that is clear from any of the videos.

I don't think it is really pertinent to the shooting. If he had a gun in his hand and at this point I don't think there is much question he did. I think it is pretty clear he never pointed it at anyone. Sadly he does not have to for it to be ruled justified.

[tblue37]

8. Where is that supposed gun when the body cam spots him on the ground at the 28 second mark? nt

[Egnever]

10. underneath him

You can see the cop in red bend over to retrieve it.

When you put that vid together with the one shot by his wife where you can see the gun appear after the officer in red bends down over him and then with the photos of the gun on the ground in the same position afterwards I don't think anyone can credibly argue it was not there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8184048

[exboyfil]

12. Check out 0:27 sec

of this video. It is light in color (something to do with reflection) but it is the shape of a gun. It is just out of the shadow of the pick up.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/charlotte-police-release-video-of-shooting-that-left-black-man-dead/ar-BBwAkWp#image=1

You can go crazy looking at these low resolution videos, but I agree with you that a gun shows up in the wife's video about 9 seconds after the shooting (the first time you could possibly see it after the wife pans back to the scene). The officer in red then anchors himself over it (as I would if it was a gun I didn't want to walk off or be kicked out of position).




It is also possible that the gun was under his body and was thrown back to the later position by the officer in red.

I don't think there is any conspiracy here. Just bad police tactics (they should have waited him out in the SUV) instead of pounding on it. They should have made it very clear in a much calmer fashion to exit the SUV without the gun. Also, unless he is raising his left hand off camera, I think they could have been more patient with him dropping the weapon. I

[Egnever]

15. Good catch I see it.

I did not catch it before. I think you are right.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. Surprising how often people of color get "bad police tactics" but whites get better "tactics". . nt

[BootinUp]

23. Where's the sarcasm tag?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. None needed. I am serious.

People of color are too often on the receiving end of bad police tactics.

On the other hand whites get much better tactics on average.

This is a problem.

It's not fair. It's very damaging to the individuals, to the police, and to the nation.

Is it 2016 yet? Is it even 2008 yet?

It is surprising that, even at such a late date as this, we have such a sad state of affairs.

No sarcasm intended. I'm serious. I mean every word I wrote and it took a little time to find the phrasing to make it fit (I had to recorder the sentence clauses). Why did you think I was being sarcastic? I try to write clearly and directly.

[uponit7771]

35. So true, there's a vid of a guy in a 6 hr "standoff" where Scott wasn't doing anything to warrant

... their reaction from the beginning seeing by their own words he was sitting in the car rolling something with a gun... which is neither illegal or reasonably threatening.

Count "sitting in the car" while black is some other shit I can't do

[BootinUp]

36. We both agree that it is a real problem. Surprising

is not a description I would choose, though. This is what the BLM movement is all about.

[exboyfil]

42. No argument

[uponit7771]

47. +1

[Schema Thing]

40. more likely it was on his ankle.

[uponit7771]

17. There's no vid of him being lifted and there's no blood on the gun shown. Also, thx for being a

... sound mind in this.

This discussion does need someone to give the CPD the benefit of the doubt even if its small... I'm not giving it to them

[Egnever]

21. I was wrong it is not underneath him

another poster caught it. At the 27 mark in the body cam footage you can see it on the ground near the shadow from the truck. It is light in color perhaps from the exposure of the camera but you can see it.

[uponit7771]

26. I see something light colored on the left side of him, the gun pic circulated is dark also the wife

...wifes vid shows no one reaching over to pic anything up on that side of him.

Another thing, he was in his car rolling something with a gun... neither are illegal in NC... he posed no immediate threat to the public or the police.

Nothing he was doing warranted their reaction, they said it was a blunt but there was no way for them to know it was MJ...

this was a bad shooting from the start

[Egnever]

30. You have no argument from me this was a bad shooting

here is where I see it.

[uponit7771]

34. The cop in the red isn't near the gun, someone earlier showed the cop in the red scooting

... something away from Scott that could've been a gun (but not his, I'm not even giving them that).

I'm now of the feeling gun or not there's little reason to escalate the situation seeing he was sitting in his own car minding his own business and posed no threat to anyone like the CPD is claiming.

this is so fucked up

[Egnever]

38. The pic in the post above is before the cop bends down over him

it is after he stands back up that he kicks the gun back and then stands over it.

I am working on a post with all of the photos and videos in one place for clarity.

[livingonearth]

51. If that's a gun, it is not very clear.

Maybe it is, but it is not clear to me.

[Egnever]

57. after looking at it multiple times now in the video itself

I no longer believe that is the gun. I don't think we ever see the gun in the police footage. The only place I think we do see it is in the wifes video.

However I do think you can see his ankle holster in the bodycam footage. I posted another thread to try and clarify all of this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028185880

[Schema Thing]

11. Oh it's pretty clear in the dashcam footage.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. Your post is very ambiguous in its claim about being clear. What is "pretty clear"?

[Schema Thing]

14. That he does not have a weapon in either hand.

[Egnever]

18. No that is not clear at all

and when you take all of the footage together I think it is more than clear he had a gun. I wasn't 100% untill the bodycam footage. Now I am.

[uponit7771]

37. I don't see a gun in any of the vids that have shown so far, the PDs that clam up and have bad ...

... relationships with the community they service have shown overwhelmingly so far to be fucked up.

Tulsa didn't blow up... I wonder what the citizens there think of the local LEOs... I'd put money on it they have a decent enough relationship there.

A bad shooting happened here in DFW this year, no one blew up ... no riots ... NOTHING...

[uponit7771]

19. I think so too, there's nothing in his left hand that indicates he has a gun and his wife said he d

... doesn't have a gun

[Chemisse]

24. He could have had one in his right hand.

It was hard to see, but they should be able to magnify it.

He was not aiming it at anyone if he did have it. And he has a legal right to have it in his possession in NC, apparently.

[Schema Thing]

28. No, if he was holding a gun, it was definitely NOT in his right hand. Possibly his left, but sure

doesn't look like it. Maybe palmed (as opposed to in shooting position) in a non-threatening way to show compliance.

[doc03]

44. I found one frame in his wife's video at 35 mark he clearly has nothing

in his left hand, the mirror on the car obstructs the view of his right hand.

[uponit7771]

48. could you post a pic?

[doc03]

49. It is on the video I had to go thru it several times one frame at a time before finding it.

Chances are he is right handed though.

[Egnever]

59. yup he is likely right handed

You can see he does not have a gun in his left hand in the body cam video. His right hand however is hidden and he appears to have an ankle holster on his right leg which would imply he would have the gun in his right hand.

[doc03]

60. So his wife said "Kieth, don't do it". That likely meant

don't pull the gun. I think she knew he had a gun and people do lie, we witness that every day from the Donald.
Still if they have other videos that could clear it up why aren't they releasing them.

[tblue37]

53. No--his right hand is definitely empty and hanging by his side--and the left hand is

also hanging by his side. Neither hand or arm comes up, nor does he point anything at anyone.

As he gets out of the vehicle, it looks as though he might have something in his left hand, but it could be anything--maybe the joint they claim he was rolling. Maybe a cell phone. Maybe a pen. Whatever it is, he never raises it at all--and certainly never points it, whatever it is, at the cops; both of his hands stay hanging by his side.

[world wide wally]

4. Looks like "Murder 1"

[Egnever]

5. Sadly this will be ruled justified.

Cops do not actually have to be threatened they only need to feel threatened. I agree with you I don' think he points the gun at anyone ever. Sadly that will not matter.

[tblue37]

6. I am not at all sure that he has a gun in his hand. He seems to have something in his left hand,

when he gets out of the car, but it could be anything---even that joint the cops claim he was rolling in his car when they saw him.

[Egnever]

9. at this point I am fairly certain he did

when taken all together the videos and pictures leave little doubt there was a gun.

[uponit7771]

20. There's a gun that appears on the scene with no blood on it... after being plugged 4 times I'm not

... thinking there's no blood on the gun

[Egnever]

29. CNN and the police claim there is blood on it.

Blood and fingerprints actually. I am going to try to put all of this together in one post now. I think clarity is important.

I am very firm in my belief at this point that this was a completely unjustified shooting in a situation created mostly by the cops. That said I don't think anyone is done any favors by making this any more inflammatory than it already is. Infact I think it obscures the real conversation that needs to be happening and that in my mind is that cops use force far too often and in fact create situations such as in this case that become deadly.

Conspiracy only takes focus away from the real issue in my opinion and inflames people. I don't think it helps anyone.

[uponit7771]

31. The pic of the gun circulated on CNN has no blood on it from what I saw. The reason it gets

... more inflammatory is PDs who clam up like this and do bullshit releases of information that prop their narrative have shown to be lying out of their ass's in the past.

It would only be a conspiracy if there wasn't a past of some of these PDs who have really bad relationships with the citizens not fucking up so often and the current situation of the needless clam up vs saying... here's the vids, we're doing an investigation.

[doc03]

45. The gun they show looks like a short barrel version of a 1911 .45 cal

and they say he had an ankle holster. That would be awfully uncomfortable to carry around in an ankle holster they are very heavy and bulky.

[Crabby Appleton]

55. Although it looks like a 1911

the Colt Mustang .380, it's really quite small.

[Schema Thing]

64. So the gun was photographed on the pavement. Is it normal that it would be evidence photo'd

with the clip taken out and no where in the image?

[jmg257]

65. I do not think they would touch it to remove the mag...yet leave the slide closed

and the hammer back(?)

In the image with the crime scene tape it appears there is no mag.

[Schema Thing]

66. weird i'nit. I think the guy was confused as to the best course of action.

He'd after all seen Terence Crutcher get gunned down in cold blood by a cop the day before.


He'd also shown the cops the weapon - or maybe not. who knows? Or he did, but he had no idea they were cops (almost certainly didn't if/when he brandished a weapon in the car), and didn't recognize them as the SAME dudes he'd threatened off from his vehicle minutes before (protecting himself).



Cops created this situation top to bottom.

[Schema Thing]

25. If he has anything in his left hand, it sure doesn't look like a gun being held like a gun

I suppose it could have been being held palmed, in a non-threatening way. But I don't think we can definitively see any movement, or object that would indicate he is holding anything at all.

[uponit7771]

27. +1

[LeftInTX]

52. Yeah, it appears when he is walking backward, that there might be something in his left hand.

It could be a cell phone. It could be a gun. I don't see him wave it or anything. The lighting isn't the best and the left hand is at the edge of the frame making it hard to view.

This is from the dashcam view.

[mnhtnbb]

62. With an ankle holster on his right leg, it's very doubtful he'd have a gun in his left hand.

[Schema Thing]

63. unless he was just carrying it, not even in a pistol grip fashion, to show that he posed no

threat

[OldRedneck]

33. Obviously . . .

. . . no one commenting on this thread has ever heard of a "drop gun."

In Vietnam, in my infantry platoon, we always had a few AK-47's. That way, if we killed someone who was not armed, we always had an AK that we "found" with the body.

Cops do the same shit. A cop arrests a guy with two pistols. One is turned in to the property office, the other disappears into the cop's car, gear bag, somewhere. If the guy says he had two pistols, the cop says he's lying and that's the end of it. Then, if the cop shoots someone who is not armed, the "drop gun" comes from under the seat and . . . miracle of miracles . . . the unarmed dead guy suddenly has a gun lying on the ground next to him.

[gwheezie]

39. When you think about it

Who's going to admit the cops stole their illegal gun.

[Egnever]

58. Oh I have heard of them

I just don't think it is plausible in this case.

I think the videos we have now make that pretty clear. Possible yes but not really plausible. I would be much more inclined to believe it if you could not see the ankle holster in the body cam video.

[gopiscrap]

41. Typical fucking cops

[moondust]

43. No threat.

Backing up slowly with hands at his sides.

[uponit7771]

46. +1

[Waldorf]

50. Backing up, holding a gun and refusing officers demands to drop it is a threat.

[moondust]

54. Why haven't the police

released information on the gun registration, victim's license to carry, etc, or the lack thereof? Surely they looked up all that days ago. Why so slow to release footage that is "inconclusive" when the family wanted it released? Would the wife calmly lie to the police about him not having a gun if she knew he might have one and might be unstable enough to use it?

The whole thing smells.

[branford]

56. The gun could not have been legal and registered.

Scott was a convicted felon and could not legally possess a firearm under current and long-standing federal law.

He had a significant multi-state criminal record which might be relevant to any investigation.

http://www.inquisitr.com/3532399/keith-lamont-scott-criminal-record-violent-past-arrest-record-includes-assault-with-a-deadly-weapon/

This information and much more is widely available in a number of articles with a simply Google News search.

[malaise]

61. K & R n/t

[Lee-Lee]

67. A man with a gun not complying with demands is not "no threat"

And anyone who says so is a clueless fool with no idea how quickly a gun down by side in a hand can be fired- less than half a second.

If someone breaks into your home with a gun and refuses to leave but is aiming the gun down are they "no threat"? Of course not.

If a man comes up on a woman in a dark alley with a gun down by his side and tells her to take her clothes off, is he "no threat"?

If a gang of racists surround a black man with guns but none of them aim the gun at them are they "no threat"?

The answer to all those questions is of course the person is a threat.

Likewise if a person has a gun in the hand and is refusing clear police demands to drop it but instead is trying to get away from the police that person is a threat. I can show you that a gun by the waist in the hand can be raised and fired in less than .4 seconds- and that's faster than most people can see the threat, process it in their mind and react to squeeze a trigger even if they already have a gun aimed. And he could hair bend the wrist and take a shot from the hip even faster, I've seen it timed at less than 1/4 second, way faster than anyone covering him with a gun can react and shoot back before he gets a round off.

If you have a gun and the cops tell you to drop it and you refuse you are intentionally making yourself a threat to them. Period. There is no other reason to not drop the gun unless you intend to use it.