Uber drivers go to war against self-driving cars

[FrodosPet]

Uber drivers go to war against self-driving cars

NYC drivers’ group plans campaign ‘the likes of which they have yet to see’ against Uber’s driverless initiative

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/uber-drivers-wont-accept-autonomous-cars-without-a-fight-2016-09-15

By Caitlin Huston | Sept 16, 2016 7:20 a.m. ET

While Uber Technologies Inc. sees the launch of its self-driving car program as a step forward in transportation, its drivers are not so sure.

Uber announced Wednesday that it had begun a pilot program of self-driving cars in Pittsburgh for select passengers. Right now, the driverless cars come with a human engineer who intervenes when necessary, but drivers fear a future in which they will be entirely replaced by software and sensors.

Jim Conigliaro Jr., founder of the Independent Drivers Guild, which represents 35,000 Uber drivers in the New York City area, said he found the launch “concerning” particularly because Uber has been working with regulators to allow ride-hailing in cities on the premise that it brings jobs to the community.

“We don’t expect Uber to move to driverless cars in New York City anytime soon, but they can expect we would launch an aggressive campaign, the likes of which they have yet to see, to halt such a move,” Conigliaro Jr. said in an email.

~ snip ~

[Renew Deal]

1. It's inevitable. There is no reason to fight it

[kcr]

5. There is no reason to fight this because it's Uber.

The technology is not ready yet. This has a huge potential to be a disaster and if so this will set back driverless cars for possibly decades.

[FrodosPet]

6. Questions about your handle and avatar

OK, Renew Deal: As in "New Deal"?

Democratic avatar. The Democrats are the party of the little guy, right? That's what my grandparents always taught me.

They told me FDR was the President that stood for "The Working Man". Were they incorrect? Or is the new 21st Century mantra "Shut up, little man! And do what you are told!"?

Absolutely. these self driving cars will cut down traffic deaths. Just be ready for some "Oh, SHIT!!!" accidents to come.
So, who should be responsible for saying they are secure enough and safe enough to roll in public? Cautious, but supportive engineers, scientists, etc? Or the money movers in the corporations who need to show results on the books "YESTERDAY!!!"?

And WHAT jobs are going to replace driving jobs? Or is it, "Too bad! So sad! Sux to be you!"?

It seems many people are tired of hearing about this shit. They are tired of me posting about the range of consequences of this transportation revolution. I have some terrible news. They are going to really hate 2017. Short of a shooting war or gigantic natural disaster, it WILL be one of the top stories post election.

[LanternWaste]

7. More accurately, yours is less a range of consequences, and more a...

"me posting about the range of consequences of this transportation revolution..."

More accurately, yours is less a range of consequences, and more a narrowly defined set of dogmatic prophecies... any deviance from which results in your indictment that someone is neither progressive nor a friend of labor, often ending with a dramatic narrative of a personal martyrdom.

[FrodosPet]

8. Thank you!

I've been looking for something to put in my holiday cards this year! LOL!

[FrodosPet]

15. Regarding the potentially displaced workers' concerns

I get it, I can inject myself to deeply into my posts, and it is a flawed self. Passive aggressive? Guilty as charged. and the last few days I have had a cold ("Awwww, baby wanna bottle? &quot making me extra cranky. I am a lifelong smartass. and like pretty much everyone else who regularly posts here, I like language, writing, and arguing with total strangers about crap I have spent considerable time studying and have next to zero influence over.

But back to the topic: What is your remedy for the fears of drivers and others who have invested heavily in the current system? Are their concerns really completely irrelevant in the face of the potential long term safety benefits of SDCs?

Some people seem to be almost taking glee in the fact that people heavily invested in the current system have fears and concerns. Their statements, such as "It's inevitable. There is no reason to fight it" seems completely authoritarian, cold, and counter-productive.

I, more than most, DO understand at great technical detail how these cars work. I know they are inevitable, and I know they can save lives. They are better at maintaining safe positioning on the freeway than human drivers 99%+ of the time.

I also know that they are still a work in progress, for all the reasons stated in other messages. It is challenging as hell for several interconnected computers to take 20 to 30 omni-directional multispectral "snapshots" a second, combined with extremely detailed geolocation and xyz motion data, to provide precise steering, acceleration, and braking to remain on or return to the optimal course. Is that a pothole or a puddle? Where did the road lines go? It's snowing, where did the road itself go? Ooops, a tire blew. Where is it safe to pull over? How will it react to a range of faults, from minor to major?

Can you throw anything in here other than your opinions of my motive and effectiveness?

[Renew Deal]

9. Change happens

Driverless cars are an inevitable technological advancement. Just like motorized cars were over horse carriages.

I'm sure there were people arguing about what will happen to stable operators, carriage drivers, etc when that change happened. That's just how things go.

But this driverless car/autonomous vehicle change is significant and positive overall. It will have major risks at first (malfunction, hacking, unintended consequences), but it's positive long term. What's important is for it to be made safe before it's unleashed on society.

[Egnever]

14. Interestingly Obama has weighed in on this.

By POTUS

Things are a little different today than when I first moved into the White House. Back then, my watch told me the time. Today, it reminds me to exercise. In my first year, I couldn’t take pictures with my phone. Last year, I posted on Instagram from Alaska.

Of course, American innovation is driving bigger changes, too: In the seven-and-a-half years of my presidency, self-driving cars have gone from sci-fi fantasy to an emerging reality with the potential to transform the way we live.

Right now, too many people die on our roads – 35,200 last year alone – with 94 percent of those the result of human error or choice. Automated vehicles have the potential to save tens of thousands of lives each year. And right now, for too many senior citizens and Americans with disabilities, driving isn’t an option. Automated vehicles could change their lives.

Safer, more accessible driving. Less congested, less polluted roads. That’s what harnessing technology for good can look like. But we have to get it right. Americans deserve to know they’ll be safe today even as we develop and deploy the technologies of tomorrow.

That’s why my administration is rolling out new rules of the road for automated vehicles – guidance that the manufacturers developing self-driving cars should follow to keep us safe. And we’re asking them to sign a 15-point safety checklist showing not just the government, but every interested American, how they’re doing it.

We’re also giving guidance to states on how to wisely regulate these new technologies, so that when a self-driving car crosses from Ohio into Pennsylvania, its passengers can be confident that other vehicles will be just as responsibly deployed and just as safe.

Regulation can go too far. Government sometimes gets it wrong when it comes to rapidly changing technologies. That’s why this new policy is flexible and designed to evolve with new advances.

There are always those who argue that government should stay out of free enterprise entirely, but I think most Americans would agree we still need rules to keep our air and water clean, and our food and medicine safe. That’s the general principle here. What’s more, the quickest way to slam the brakes on innovation is for the public to lose confidence in the safety of new technologies.

Both government and industry have a responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen. And make no mistake: If a self-driving car isn’t safe, we have the authority to pull it off the road. We won’t hesitate to protect the American public’s safety.

Even as we focus on the safety of automated vehicles, we know that this technology, as with any new technology, has the potential to create new jobs and render other jobs obsolete. So it’s critical that we also provide new resources and job training to prepare every American for the good-paying jobs of tomorrow.

We’re determined to help the private sector get this technology right from the start. Because technology isn’t just about the latest gadget or app – it’s about making people’s lives better. That’s going to be the focus of the first-ever White House Frontiers Conference on Oct. 13. And what better place to hold it than Pittsburgh – a city that has harnessed innovation to redefine itself as a center for technology, health care and education.

We’ll explore the future of innovation in America and around the world, focusing on building our capacity in science, technology and innovation, as well as the new technologies, challenges and goals that will shape the next century.

The progress we’ve seen in automated vehicles over the past several years shows what our country is capable of when our engineers and entrepreneurs, our scientists and our students – backed by federal and private investment – pour their best work and brightest ideas toward a big, bold goal. That’s the spirit that has propelled us forward since before the automobile was invented. Now it’s up to us to keep driving toward a better future for everyone.

[FrodosPet]

19. This is a good start

This is incredible, and what I have been TRYING to say all along (albeit not as well as Pres. Obama)

I really like this part:

~ snip ~

There are always those who argue that government should stay out of free enterprise entirely, but I think most Americans would agree we still need rules to keep our air and water clean, and our food and medicine safe. That’s the general principle here. What’s more, the quickest way to slam the brakes on innovation is for the public to lose confidence in the safety of new technologies.

Both government and industry have a responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen. And make no mistake: If a self-driving car isn’t safe, we have the authority to pull it off the road. We won’t hesitate to protect the American public’s safety.

Even as we focus on the safety of automated vehicles, we know that this technology, as with any new technology, has the potential to create new jobs and render other jobs obsolete. So it’s critical that we also provide new resources and job training to prepare every American for the good-paying jobs of tomorrow.

~ snip ~

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. You attacked the poster and not their point. How many ice haulers do you see these days?

Refrigeration put ice cutters and haulers out of work.

But do you feel that we should get rid of refrigeration and go back to ice boxes stocked daily by horse-drawn carts full of ice? Why not? It employed lots of people.

Peak coal employment was in the 1920s. Peak coal production was in the 1950s. We should go back to steam locomotives so that we can keep coal workers employed?

How about dealing with the inevitability of change? The question is not "Will we change?" but "How will we manage change?".

Progress is inevitable unless Trump is elected.

[font size = "+1"]Please attack posts not posters.[/font]

[Loki Liesmith]

2. We have seen such a campaign before. It failed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

[The2ndWheel]

3. They get a bad name

Luddites weren't any different than unions are today. Fighting against the tide and all that. Fighting for the known over the unknown. Fighting to live in their world, not the world of some increasingly distant center of power.

It is funny how when it comes to things like this, so many do look at it without questioning it. We love the working class people. People who work hard. The lower income people who we have to watch out for. Do not interfere with technological progress though, because there is a greater good, which you may or may not benefit from. You do not matter. You do have a TV and microwave in your house even if you're poor, right? You're doing ok.

[FrodosPet]

10. Especially with the way people are spitting it out, seething through their teeth

Luddite may end up becoming more of a compliment than a slur.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. I wouldn't bet on it.

[The2ndWheel]

20. I'd agree with the other response

I wouldn't go as far as compliment. I'd even say eventually not a slur. Nobody will care, because opinions don't matter.

What are you going to do if self driving cars are all that's allowed on the road at some point because the technology gets that good? Openly drive your own car on the road? Maybe as a hobby on a track somewhere, but not to get around everyday.

We're prisoners of history, and slaves to the future.

[FrodosPet]

22. After 2056? I will probably be dead or in a vegetative state

Economically and socially, it will still be decades before prohibitions on human driving.

Auto autos are going to have to share the road with humans for AT LEAST another 30 to 40 years. And there WILL be political and economic opposition to removing humans from the driver's seat.

And then there is political pressure from negatively affected parties. Does anyone here REALLY think they will all back off because someone calls them a "Luddite"?

"Oh no! I was called a Luddite! I should rethink my position on self driving technology, and calmly and quietly accept the collapse of my career or business." Not saying it WON'T happen, it just won't happen very often.

[Glassunion]

24. Congrats on 5000 posts.

[FrodosPet]

11. What is your advice to help people overcome their fears?

Are their any alternatives to "Shut your pie hole and accept the inevitable"? That tends to piss people off and create pushback.

YMMV.

[Loki Liesmith]

13. I have no advice except

Don't work for Uber. They've made their goals pretty explicit from the beginning. And it's not like Uber drivers aren't doing the exact same thing to taxi drivers that machine learning will do to them.

Everybody wants to be part of innovation until they are innovated out of a job.

[longship]

4. "Uber drivers protest all those flying cars"

That was the first output from the iNews 5000 WiFi Headline Translator when input "Uber drivers go to war against self-driving cars".

Let's try that again!

Spring sprong, bling blong, DING!

Translation: Next stop, the Uber transporter. Energize Scotty!

Let's try that again!

Spring sprong, bling blong, DING!

Translation: 98% of Uber driverless vehicles end up in oceans, rivers and lakes.

[Egnever]

12. How funny you are now allied with UBER drivers

[FrodosPet]

18. I have ALWAYS been united with GOOD Uber drivers. The slack asses and criminals, no!!!

My beef is with Uber. I want to see them treat their drivers better, however much longer they have them.

I will be the first one to say the traditional taxi business has been filled with assholes and thieves. If and when they bite the dust, GOOD.

From a pure selfish economic perspective, Uber was a late blooming blessing. 2014 and 2015 was pretty scary for us, we shrunk for the first time in the company's history. But we hit some nice niches in account runs for hospitals, hotels and local factories. With so many of our competitors gone, I am back to working call volumes I haven't seen in years.

Even if they wanted to, not everyone is in a position to use Uber.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. First it's self-driving cars...

Next it's self-flying planes, self-cleaning clothes, self-delivering pizzas, self-educating college students, self-filing taxes, self-assembling vehicles, self-repairing computers, self-photographing cameras, self-smelting steel, self-refining oil, self-mining uranium, self-chopping trees, self-pulping paper mills, self-extracting teeth, self-ejecting appendices, self-administering antibiotics, and self-cutting hair.

Everyone will be out a job forever and the rich people will be yuuuuuuuuugely rich even though there's no one left to sell shit to.

[LeftInTX]

23. I'm in desperate need of self-cutting hair....

Tired of hairstylists...........They're good at first, then you stick with them awhile and they start pulling stunts, then you gotta go and find a new one, which isn't easy.....

(Same with housekeepers)

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. It's coming, alright.

Got a few bugs to work out, though.

[Codeine]

21. It was okay when they took advantage of technology

to take jobs away from cab drivers, but bad when technology takes their jobs away.

[FrodosPet]

25. The Hype Of Self-Driving Cars

[Skittles]

26. fuck Uber

seriously, fuck them

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. Ironic because Uber drivers are putting licensed hard-working taxi drivers out of jobs.

I wonder if the OP sided with the taxi drivers against Uber drivers? Now apparently the Uber drivers are the heroes.

[FrodosPet]

30. I support good drivers, whether traditional taxi or ride share.

My main issues have been with Uber's treatment of drivers and their lack of respect for established laws covering taxi-type services.

Things like sending them to airport pickups where the drivers end up ticketed and sometimes towed. Sure, Uber will compensate you, or perhaps even forward you the money. But the driver is stuck with embarrassment, lost time, lost income, and in a small # of jurisdictions a ding on their driving record.

Things like deactivating drivers on the uninvestigated word of a passenger who may or may net be truthful.

[KWR65]

29. It is estimated that by 2025 50M people will lose their jobs...

to technology. This first happened in the factories. Now it is going to eliminate every low skilled job in AMerica. Even middle managers will be replaced by computers with AI. I guess by 2025 million of Americans will live in shanty towns.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. If income & wealth inequality is not addressed ASAP, the coming AI revolution will create riots.

If it is addressed, then the AI revolution will create prosperity and enhance society.

[BobbyDrake]

32. Hmm, that's weird. None of the sci-fi movies ever predicted it would be cab drivers who started the

robot apocalypse.

[FrodosPet]

33. I thought John Connor was a Lyft driver?

And ran some Amazon Flex runs every Monday and Tuesday afternoon.

[BobbyDrake]

34. Poor John Connor...

Sends his best friend back in time to guard his life, and what's the first thing his best friend does? Bones John's mom. SMH