White America, It’s Time to Take a Knee

[babylonsister]

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/09/20/white-america-its-time-to-take-a-knee/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=John+Pavlovitz&utm_content=White+America%2C+It%27s+Time+to+Take+a+Knee


White America, It’s Time to Take a Knee
September 20, 2016 / John Pavlovitz


For the past month I’ve watched lots of white Americans lose their minds in response to Colin Kaepernick and other NFL player’s peaceful National Anthem protests. I’ve seen them question these young men’s patriotism, malign their motives, attack their methods, and treat them with the kind of open contempt usually reserved for serial killers and child molesters.

For simply taking a knee during a football pre game in an effort to foster a conversation about the deaths of young men of color at the hands of police, these men have been made into the enemy by so much of white America. In some twisted, ironic, almost laughable missing of the point—it’s somehow become the angry black man’s fault for disparaging his country.

And today, as the footage of unarmed father of four Terence Crutcher’s public execution goes viral, I’ve been looking to these same people for some semblance of grief at his passing, some anger at the circumstances of his death, some outrage at the sickening deja vu these images are manufacturing.

But I’m finding none of these things. Instead I’m finding victim blaming and rationalizing and lots of efforts to tell us why our eyes aren’t seeing what they’re seeing.

I know what my eyes see.

They see humanity ignored, they see fear metastasized, and they see white people excusing away murder instead of facing the brutal truth that maybe institutional racism is real and maybe Colin Kaepernick and his brethren are worth listening to, and maybe they shouldn’t be vilified outliers that we’re trying to shut-up.

Maybe we should all be kneeling right now.

White friends, if your immediate response to the shooting of Terence Crutcher is to try and justify why he’s dead, you may be the problem here. If you aren’t greatly burdened with grief for his family and you aren’t moved with compassion for the way scenes like this repeatedly kick people of color in the gut, you need to ask yourself some difficult questions about your own patriotism, your own appreciation of freedom, your own civic responsibility. You need to ask yourself whether you’re really for Liberty—or just white comfort.

Because from where I’m standing, I see Colin Kaepernick and those like him doing what many of you aren’t doing. I see them trying to keep more people from dying. I see them doing something to stop the bleeding instead of trying to make peace with it. I see them being the best of America in the face of the worst of America.

more...

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/09/20/white-america-its-time-to-take-a-knee/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=John+Pavlovitz&utm_content=White+America%2C+It%27s+Time+to+Take+a+Knee

[tonyt53]

1. I resent the fact that the author of this article is attempting to shame me for not following

Kneeling during the National Anthem does nothing but divide. It changes nothing. The way to bring change is to get out and speak at city council meetings, vote in elections for candidates that represent your values, or even running for office at the local level. Change isn't brought about by putting on a show. It is brought about by actions - actions a lot more meaningful than kneeling for the National Anthem.

[GeorgeGist]

2. Your white privilege is showing.

[tonyt53]

6. Special kind of person aren't ya. My great son-in-law is black and the father to three grandkids.

I grew up very poor in a small southern town in the house that was the closest to the only two black people in the town; two old women. Growing up I was called that name usually reserved for blacks many, many times because of where I lived, and the fact that we helped those women whenever we could. One of them sat up with my grandmother during WWII listening to the radio while my dad was fighting in the Pacific and her other two sons and son-in-law were fighting in Europe. Those two women were treated like family by us, as we were to them. We all wept at their funerals as though we had lost a family member.

I don't jump on a bandwagon cause. I understand what really works. Division doesn't work. Working together gets things done. You need to take a long look in a mirror and then ask yourself what you have done besides agree with not kneeling during the National Anthem. After you do that, then get back to me.

[Bradical79]

37. You're more offended over manner of protest than murder

Despite having some black family members, you are still part of the problem. The fact is, you don't understand what really works. Your personal feelings of comfort are simply more important to you than people being murdered and abused these days. Your self declared credentials don't mean shit if your going to get so upset about someone's nonviolent form of protest making you uncomfortable. Maybe you were a valuable ally at one time, but now you are going out of your way to divide people and shame nonviolent minority protesters. It's simply stupid to assume someone bringing public attention to a problem through an extremely mild form of protest is somehow taking away from other real work being done. You need both. Concrete changes would never have happened without the far more distruptive protests and actions of the civil rights movement. The behind the scenes work and city council meetings will go nowhere otherwise.

Protests like this don't happen in lieu of real action. They happen because complaining to city council and trying to enact real change through other means half been failing. They've been doing that for decades, and this isn't some new bandwagon cause.

[tonyt53]

54. You guys just have no idea, do you. I also care jack shit about your opinion.

I live in the real world. Not a world of FB posts or twitter rants. Outside is brutal. Not standing for the National Anthem is symbolic, like a FB post. Getting out and doing something to try to get change moving is real life. To think that trying to shame and bully people on here, FB, or other places will get anything done is a gross distortion of reality and shows a great disconnect between the real world and online world. Time to get off your asses and start doing something meaningful. To hell with those symbolic acts. Put down your damned phone and move.

[Tumbulu]

89. Agree! Action is what matters

But some people do find comfort in symbolism. They do not exclude each other. But like you, I prefer to do the work of change making.

[heaven05]

48. I see no need for the OP author to "get back to you"

as someone who has no clue. Distraction, diversion a tried and true reality here. If enough good americans "kneeled", metaphorically, we would not already be so divided. The OP or Colin Kaepernick, take your choice, are pointing to this fact of deep division along racial lines not causing it. That damage has been on going for 250+ years and NOT getting any better.

[foo_bar]

29. .

[Iggo]

3. Change begins by pissing off the comfortable.

I'm okay with that.

[Stellar]

20. If they don't care that PEOPLE are being 'murdered' with impunity, they have no souls anyway. nt

[Iggo]

21. Gotta get 'em woke.

Some only need a word.

Some need a nudge.

Some need a shove.

Some need their blankets yanked.

But they gotta get woke the fuck up.

[Bradical79]

41. Yup

Doing things the official way don't work unless people are paying attention. That's usually why you get protests. It's to spark something that will hopefully lead to change BECAUSE the safe comfortable processes in place have failed.

[classykaren]

91. Me too

[anoNY42]

5. I agree and disagree

You are correct, insofar as you are speaking about normal everyday people like me and yourself. (except I still disagree about the divisiveness, I believe is it only divisive insofar as the opposite side of the divide is populated by people who feel racism is no longer a problem).

You are wrong if you are talking about football players kneeling. They have a very wide audience of people who are more likely than not the type of people who think racism doesn't exist anymore (read: white lower-income Trump supporters (and Jets fans, who suck!)) When the football players kneel, they are doing something that impacts a whole lot of people and makes them talk about stuff like racism. If that is divisive, that is wholly the fault of the people who think racism is no longer a problem.

In fact, Colin Kaepernick has probably done a whole lot more by starting these protests than he could have done running for town council or speaking at a meeting.

[tonyt53]

7. What exactly has been accomplished? Ask John Lewis if that works.

[anoNY42]

9. Effects

1.) There have been numerous articles, blog posts, and comments on what Kaep and others are doing.

2.) It is only week 2 of the season, so let's hold off on saying there is nothing gained by this.

I'm not saying he has or will change the world, but at least his protest is aligned with our own ideological beliefs (unless you are a racist, I guess). Why not support it merely because you believe he is right that racism is still a problem in this country?

[tonyt53]

14. Words, only words; to borrow from President Obama. Real actions speak louder than words.

Articles, blog posts, and comments are words. What is he doing during the week? Is he going to city council meetings? Is he meeting with neighborhood groups? Is he arranging meeting between police and neighborhood groups? He isn't practicing or playing football 24/7. Those actions get things moving (unless you want to call everyone that doesn't agree with his kneeling as racist, I guess). To support what he is doing, for the reason you just gave amounts to jumping onto a bandwagon when you add the word "merely" into the statement.

I don't need a professional athlete to tell me that racism is alive and thriving here in the US. I see it every day.

[anoNY42]

17. Come on now

1.) "He isn't practicing or playing football 24/7." He is fighting for a starting quarterback spot, which pretty much assures he is practicing, working out, watching tape, taking snaps, etc. almost all of his waking hours. Even if Kaep is just sitting on his butt all week, what about the other kneeling players who actually start/play?

2.) Kaep has already said he will direct all money from his jersey sales to charity work involved in the issues of policing and the black community. Since his protest has actually massively increased sales of his jersey, this seems to me like something that might be useful to the community.

3.) Bandwagons: This seems like a good bandwagon for Dems to jump on, sure. Once again, it aligns with our beliefs.

4.) "I don't need a professional athlete to tell me that racism is alive and thriving here in the US. I see it every day. " And what about those football fans who do not see racism every day or think that it just doesn't really exist anymore?

I agree that Kaep is not MLK Jr. However his protest has enhanced the visibility of a crucial issue at exactly zero cost to normal folks. If you think respectfully protesting the anthem by kneeling is "divisive", then you should state why that is the case. This protest is only "divisive" because some folks don't like to be made to think about certain issues. They would rather cram their heads in the sand or put their fingers in their ears than be subjected to the dissatisfaction of black people. I think it does some folks some good to have this protest broadcast on every game they watch.

[tonyt53]

28. Uh, yeah, players DO get time off and away during the season for a few hours each day.

Those jersey sales? The NFL owns the marketing rights to all jerseys, meaning the NFL gets most of the cash. More money for the NFL, as if they need it.

Democrats do not need a bandwagon. Democrats live it in their souls - real Democrats to anyway. I registered as a Democrat for one reason, and one reason only, and that was social issues. I grew up in the 60's and saw social injustice and saw every night on TV how real change was started in motion. Blacks and whites marching together as one demanding change. Marching while under attack from their opposition, both verbally and physically. I heard how people talked about our neighbors. Again, I do not need some coddled professional athlete reminding me. I have my own eyes and ears.

You think that creating a division is going to change any minds? In the real world, that doesn't work.

I just told you why kneeling during the National Anthem is divisive. The last thing we need is division.

Your petty attempts to bully me into agreeing with your opinions aren't working. And yes, that is what you are attempting to do. You are stating your opinions that are based upon the belief that most people really give a big rat's ass about what a professional athlete think. Actions speak louder than words. Some actions say it louder when those actions are put into motion. Bullying isn't going to cut it.

[anoNY42]

53. Come on now #2

1.) "Again, I do not need some coddled professional athlete reminding me": You are focusing too much on the messenger. Why does it matter who is doing the talking if the message is just?

2.) "Marching while under attack from their opposition, both verbally and physically. ": Hmm, would have have told those folks their marching was "divisive" and that they should instead run for city council or something? The marching itself was necessary and it was the right thing to do. There is little difference between that action and Kaep's actions, except the threats of physical violence are no longer present.

3.) "You think that creating a division is going to change any minds? ": You just had an entire paragraph about how marchers were demanding change while other people were abusing them. How in the hell is that not "creating a division"?

4.) Bullying: That is a buzzword nowadays, yes.

5.) "You are stating your opinions that are based upon the belief that most people really give a big rat's ass about what a professional athlete think.": Maybe, maybe not. But many people are talking about it. I bet you have never in your life had that effect on the debate about civil rights.

I don't think Kaep is Jesus or some such nonsense like that. I think he is doing what he can to bring a crucial issue to the foreground. I think that Kaep can have more impact leveraging his status as an athlete than he could donning a shirt and tie and running for town council. Furthermore, don't forget that this is no longer limited to just one player. Perhaps we should see where this goes before we judge it as useless, huh?

[tonyt53]

105. Uh, "bullying" is what you are attempting. Sort of odd how you call it a buzzword.

You jump on a bandwagon like the kneeling, but laugh at bullying. Appears that you are one of those people that jump on the daily bandwagon, while forgetting about the one you were on yesterday. That kneeling is symbolic and nothing more. Oh, and your opinion still means jack shit to me.

[anoNY42]

107. I was doing nothing of the sort

Now you are bullying me by continually calling me a bully when it isn't true. See how easy it is to through that word around when it has no meaning anymore?

"That kneeling is symbolic": Of course it is. So is marching in the street waving a sign. As I already pointed out, Kaep is also giving his earnings on jersey sales (which are increased due to...tada...his kneeling protest) to groups working on the issue he is protesting.

Anyway, you are saying that protesting police violence against black people is a "bandwagon". I know you don't think that, given your history as you stated. You complain that Kaep's protest is divisive, but you do not answer my point that all protest is divisive, even the protests of the 1960's.

[awoke_in_2003]

68. You're getting upset about protest

while referencing John Lewis? That is rich.

[gollygee]

79. ROFL

Yeah, John Lewis would never have protested. /sarcasm

[malaise]

10. FFS

Sometimes silence is a better option

[arthritisR_US]

11. Protest IS action and its louder than anything I've heard thus far.

As a pasty white old dame, I totally agree with the chap, it's time to join him in his dissent. When your anthem protects all peoples in your land equally then and only then should it be respected and revered. Right now it appears its primary function is as a coffin drape.

[jtuck004]

24. It sounds like you would prefer they protest from the back of the bus.

Maybe stay out of the front, a place you seem to think you have a right to without any extra effort.

I gotta say, it certainly seems as if your side is winning. Good work.


“I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.”
Harriet Tubman

[LanternWaste]

32. It would appear the shame you infer does not actually appear in the article

It would appear the shame you infer and react against does not actually appear in the article, regardless of the rest of your wholly unsupported allegations (e.g., changes nothing, putting on a show, etc). In effect, your entire defense is in reaction to your own inferences rather than both the premise and conclusion of the article, regardless of the irrelevance of your resentment.

"...actions a lot more meaningful than kneeling for the National Anthem."
Or standing for the National Anthem for that matter.

[LiberalLovinLug]

44. "Change isn't brought about by putting on a show. It is brought about by actions"

With all due respect, isn't it about both? all great social movements that changed things used both public displays of discontentment along with actual practical work towards that. They feed each other IMO.

[kcr]

66. Oh, what a novel idea! Good thing you thought of that! Voting.

Someone should hurry up and point them to this thread! OMG! That way they can stand up for the National Anthem again! They'll be so grateful to you! And you won't have to feel ashamed anymore for not kneeling, either. Win/win!

[awoke_in_2003]

67. CK and those with him

Are using the stage they are given. Had they not started on the sidelines, no one would be talking about it, and they would not have had a platform.

[gollygee]

80. Protesting is what has brought a great deal of the change that has happened in our country

And the world.

[JTFrog]

111. /facepalm nt

[milestogo]

4. I like it when football players play football...

That's why they have a massive audience, because they are athlete-entertainers. I don't give a shit about their politics.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Not Wanting Unarmed People To Be Shot Is Politics?

On which planet?

[milestogo]

27. Does Kaepernick ever protest when he's not in front of an audience gathered to watch football?

I don't think so.

[Codeine]

34. What impact would that have? nt

[milestogo]

38. That would show him to be a real activist

and not just a grandstander.

[Bradical79]

45. What?

Do you even know what a protest is? The audience is a pretty important factor. What kind of idiot thinks the smaller an audience is, the better the protest is?

[milestogo]

86. Yeah, that's what I said.

I must be some kind of idiot.

Too bad Ghandi and MLK Jr never thought of using football players to get the message out.

[Codeine]

51. Wow. You do realize a protest without an audience

is like a football game in an empty arena -- nobody sees it, so it means nothing. Right now he's got a bully pulpit like few others. More power to him.

[gollygee]

81. Why would he want to protest in an ineffective way?

Of course he does it with an audience. There's no point in protesting without an audience.

You must have some understanding of how protests work.

[milestogo]

82. No point in protesting like most activists do?

Taking to the streets, carrying signs, passing out fliers, etc? So all the protesting most of us has ever done is "ineffective" because we aren't celebrities?

If he'd ever once done something like that, I might give him a little credit.

[gollygee]

83. You said the problem was that he had an audience

The other protestors you're talking about also have an audience.

But the bigger the audience, the more effective the protest. He has a huge audience, and people have been talking about this frequently for a while now. It's been very effective.

Any protestors are going to get as big of an audience as they can. He has the ability to get a larger one than most people.

[milestogo]

85. The audience is there to watch football.

[Lancero]

90. And watch football they did.

...or was the football game canceled on account of his protest?

[alarimer]

108. "Shut up and sing."

There are versions of this refrain whenever a public figures does something we disagree with.

The Dixie Chicks faced it for a relatively innocuous comment.

These people are citizens; they have every right to use the platforms they have to make their views known. That doesn't mean people have to like it, true, but it is their right to do so.

[cwydro]

16. Lol. Does Kaep ever even play?

Didn't play a single down against the Panthers.

[LanternWaste]

35. These particular football players are in fact, playing football.

These particular football players are in fact, playing football; hence it seems the point of your missive is irrelevant at best.

[milestogo]

39. Missive?

Missive: a letter, especially a long or official one

I gave my opinion, which is what people do on a messageboard.

[Orrex]

96. Maybe it was a dis-missive?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

104. this is not about politics, this is about their lives. what you are saying is you want entertainment

but you have no compassion for those who exist to entertain you.

[milestogo]

114. ...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

115. Lol. Such drama.

[B2G]

8. He's free to kneel. I'm free to stand. nt

[WillowTree]

12. ^^This!!^^

And I enthusiastically support both our rights to do so.

[Stellar]

15. More than 2/3 of pro football players are Black, I hope they all take a knee. nt

[jalan48]

18. I've never liked the enforced militarism before games.

Last edited Tue Sep 20, 2016, 12:06 PM - Edit history (1)

It a form of brainwashing-look at how angry people get when someone questions it. Kaep is doing a bigger service than he understands.

[arithia]

25. considering all that "patriotic pageant" sh*t

is largely the product of the McCarthy era (much like the mention of "God" in the pledge) , I'm right there with you.

It's propaganda. Subtle, effective propaganda for the masses.

Athletes kneeling during games exposes that fact. It's why many people lose their damn minds over it- either they simply cannot process the facts of reality or they are desperately trying not to.

[alarimer]

109. This bothers me a lot too.

I would refuse to stand for the anthem for this reason alone. To protest the mindless patriotic, militaristic nonsense propagated by the NFL.

[Baitball Blogger]

19. It's time they take a knee to the groin.

[Iggo]

22. LOL.

[ileus]

23. I need a take a knee for me volunteer...

[Coolest Ranger]

26. Everyone keeps saying that my voice as a black American

matters but every time I try to voice my opinion through the black perspective, I'm reported on by people who don't want me to speak. I'm told to shut up and that I need to just accept the cops word as they say it. My life apparently doesn't matter

[AlbertCat]

30. But I’m finding none of these things.

Really? NONE?

I'm skeptical of this statement. I've "found it"...along with victim blaming and rationalizing and everything else one would expect.


"I know what my eyes see. "

Well, maybe, because eye witnessing is one of the most inaccurate things around! People see what they want to see. Also, anecdotal evidence is useless.

[hfojvt]

31. just watched the two Crutcher videos

My thinking is a) first it is hard to see what happened right before the shot. and b) it looks like he could have easily avoided getting shot simply by doing what he was told.

It sucks when young people die needlessly, but at the same time, what the hell was he doing?

I still see far more people getting shot by criminals than I do by police.

"what many of you aren't doing".

Whatever we are or are not doing this author has no clue what anybody is doing, other than public figures in the brief time they are in the public eye. I mean, I probably volunteer over 200 hours a year and do my little things every day. Gosh, if only there was some public way that I could say "I hate this country" then I could be a hero like Kaepernick and be making the world a better place.

[AlbertCat]

36. if only there was some public way that I could say "I hate this country"

Kneeling football players are not saying "I hate this country".

They are saying "I'm disappointed in this country" and perhaps "We can do better".

[hfojvt]

71. what did he say directly?

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

He has no pride in the country, by his own words. By not standing, he shows he has no respect for it.

The country will always be able to do better.

If he is only going to respect a perfect country, then he shouldn't complain if I am only going to respect a perfect quarterback.

[HughBeaumont]

42. "Raising your hands and unarmed" = "instant death sentence"??

What was Terrence doing that warranted him being killed in the middle of the street?

Spare me this "we don't have all the facts" bullshit. I'm so fucking tired of old white people justifying and excusing shit cop behavior. COME on.

[hfojvt]

72. Well I am not going to apologize for either being old or white

You could try to make a point without referring to other people's race and age.

Whatever the videos show, they do show this - he did NOT have his hands up when he was shot.

unarmed is a post facto judgement. Yes, we now know he was unarmed. That could not have been known at the time. The video does not show, either of them, what he was doing. Was he reaching in the van window when he was shot?

Why did he feel the need to keep walking when they told him to stop?

Dude, people have guns drawn on you, you probably should listen to them.

Shaun King said his car had broken down. Well, how did he get from a non-working car to having guns drawn on him?

[HughBeaumont]

74. He didn't have his hands raised at the time of being shot because he had just been tased.

Not one human being alive is going to have their hands completely raised in the air when you just got probes shot into you.

The thing is, why did he have guns DRAWN on him? What CRIME was he committing? WHAT CRIME WAS HE COMMITTING?

Movement is not a fucking crime. This is such bullshit. "Oh, gee, you're not listening to me, that means I'm legally allowed to shoot you dead and get away with it!" IS THAT WHERE WERE GOING???

His car malfunctioned. He wanted help and he got fucking murdered and now every son of a bitch is making excuse after fucking excuse to exonerate these incompetent police officers [font size=4]because you will not stand and admit that there is even ONE bad cop!!! IT'S FAR MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU THAT TERENCE CRUTCHER ABSOLUTELY MUST BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN DEATH THAN FOR PEOPLE TO ADMIT THAT THERE IS EVEN SUCH A THING AS A BAD COP!![/font]

You're officially just as bad as any Stormfront/Yahoo/discussionist AnCap if you excuse Betty Shelby and blame an unarmed and hands-raised man who is committing NO CRIME for his own death. You're just as bad as all of these bastards that blamed Tamir Rice and John Crawford for their own murders.

GOD DAMN IT.

[atreides1]

77. K&R

1,000,000,000,000

[Orrex]

97. "comply or die"

Thus we (as a nation) grant carte blanche to cops who want to murder black people in the streets.

Being black now qualifies as "posing an imminent deadly threat to officers."

I'm not quite "old," but a generic white male and I'm likewise fed up with the old white guy justification bullshit, infallibly siding with the murderers until "the facts are known." And once "the facts are known," well, we weren't actually there, so we have to trust the cops' experience and judgment. Or whatever bullshit rationalization we're expected to swallow.

I can't summarily execute someone simply because he's taller and darker than I am, but cops routinely get away with it. Since cops can so often murder with impunity, it follows that we should demand that they maintain a higher threshold for the use of deadly force.

You're officially just as bad as any Stormfront/Yahoo/discussionist AnCap if you excuse Betty Shelby and blame an unarmed and hands-raised man who is committing NO CRIME for his own death. You're just as bad as all of these bastards that blamed Tamir Rice and John Crawford for their own murders.

+10,000

[JTFrog]

112. I seriously hate seeing that thin blue line here at DU.

Every fucking shooting they come out with the same bullshit defenses.

GOD DAMN IT. Sick of it.

[hfojvt]

120. you seem to have a lot of detail

I certainly did not see that sequence from either video.

It is awfully nice of you to read my mind and make my argument for me.

Okay, actually no it is not.

At no point have I ever said that there are no bad cops.

No, I said he was responsible for his own death because he could easily have avoided getting shot - in any number of ways.

1. answer simple questions
2. stop moving around
3. keep his hands up (yes, I am going to continue to believe that he put his hands down and then got tazed, absent actual video proof of a different sequence)

Who the heck is John Crawford and why are we talking about him instead of Angel Hooper or Ranisha Jones?

[ecstatic]

87. You can't be serious. Let's pretend that he was, as you're suggesting,

not following directions... Is that really a good reason for being executed in the street? Really? !

And why was he treated like a criminal because his car broke down?

Have you ever been told to put your hands up because your car broke down?

[a la izquierda]

94. You said it far better than I could

I just about had a coronary reading that post.

[hfojvt]

118. according to the cop's account

which is the only one we have - he put his hands up on his own.

Why was he being treated like a criminal because his car broke down?

Well, why do you think?

Okay, that was too easy. You think it was because he was black.

All either of us have is speculation. I think he was being treated as a threat, because he was - not behaving normally. This is supposedly her account (if you can trust the media to report accurately)

" Wood said that Shelby then said to Crutcher, "Hey, is this your car?"

Crutcher didn't respond, simply dropping his head while continuing to look at Shelby, "kind of under his brow," Wood said. Crutcher then began to put his hand into his left pocket, Wood said, adding that Shelby told Crutcher, "Hey, please keep your hands out of your pocket while you're talking to me. Let's deal with his car."

Crutcher did not respond, Wood said, so Shelby ordered him again to get his hand out of his pocket. He then pulled his hand away and put his hands up in the air, even though he was not instructed to do so, which Shelby found strange, Wood said.

Shelby tried to get Crutcher to talk to her, but he simply mumbled something unintelligible and stared at her,"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/tulsa-police-officer-shares-side-story-terence-crutchers/story?id=42243843

See, now I would expect a normal person to respond somewhat normally to a simple question. Either with a yes or a no.

Everything escalates from there. Because he did NOT respond in a normal way. Now he seems like a threat instead of a rational person.

I know this is a huge, gigantic leap, but just assume for half a second that her story is true, and put yourself in her position. Would you not consider his behavior at least a little bit threatening?

[ecstatic]

121. OR, instead of viewing him as a criminal, she could consider the possibility

of him being in a medical emergency, perhaps a diabetic crisis or something. If every citizen is a threat to you, you probably shouldn't be a cop.

I know this is a huge, gigantic leap, but just assume for half a second that her story is true, and put yourself in her position. Would you not consider his behavior at least a little bit threatening?

Since when does someone acting weird mean they should get the death penalty? Worse case scenario, get back in the f*cking car and wait for backup.

[NaturalHigh]

33. No thanks.

[Vinca]

40. No, it's time to start prosecuting cops for murder.

[Egnever]

43. Nope

Fuck this author and the folks who think like him.

They are part of the problem. I see a whole lot if black players not taking a knee either yet it's the white folks that need to do it.

I am sick to death of this divisive bullshit.

I am all for players taking a knee and would likely do so myself if I was at a game but tell me I need to cause I am white and you can just fuck right off.

[Renaissance Man]

47. Love the white privilege. It's showing, along with your slip.

There are a lot of black players not taking a knee because of their contracts and what can be deemed "conduct detrimental to the league." It is not spelled out clearly in their contracts (it's vague and not defined). Even though protesting against injustice isn't what I would deem "conduct detrimental to the league," an owner could use that vague clause to terminate the contract of a player since taking a knee during the singing of the national anthem has drawn so much ire from the NFL's primarily white, male, conservative fan base.

Also, yes, if you have an ounce of humanity in you, you'd be right alongside Colin Kaepernick and all of the rest of the players and people who support his stance if you actually cared about the common welfare of your fellow American, regardless of the color of his skin. I guess this site isn't as liberal and progressive as I thought.

[Egnever]

50. More bullshit

There are plenty of reasons to stand for the national anthem. America is a great country despite its warts.

And honestly fuck white privilege I am sick and tired of fuckwitted bigots hiding behind that bullshit.

I find it hilarious you can find all sorts of excuses for black players not kneeling but have decided white people must.

And yup when it comes to the white man is responsible for everyone in the worlds ills I am not progressive at all.

I have spent the majority of my life living in racially diverse neighborhoods and if there is one thing i have learned in all that time it is that there is no monolithic racial attitude. I have meet assholes of every single color as well as people I highly respect. Time and time again it is the folks that want to pretend all (insert color of your choice) need to do something or are something that are the biggest assholes and usually the biggest bigots.

[Renaissance Man]

57. State-sanctioned murder is a wart?

Last edited Wed Sep 21, 2016, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Wow. I guess expecting your government's law enforcement to not murder people in your community is just a "wart," you know "a minor inconvenience."

God Bless the U S of A, while the blood of unarmed citizens at the hands of their government continues to flow in American streets.

This is not about who is an asshole or how diverse of a community you've lived in, because of course this is all about you.

Thanks for completely missing the point. You can continue to stand and sing. I'll be sitting and taking a knee wondering about my fellow American.

[Egnever]

59. State sanctioned murder is such hyperbole. It makes the rest of your post pointless to read.

[Renaissance Man]

60. Actually, it's not hyperbole.

Aren't police law enforcement officers? You know, the people paid to enforce civil and criminal law of the states/territories in which they are located.

Aren't law enforcement officers agents of municipalities?

Aren't municipalities/cities/counties located in states?

Aren't law enforcement officers paid by tax dollars?

So, again, how is saying that an officer that kills a citizen unlawfully by use of excessive/unwarranted force = state-sanctioned murder, hyperbole?

[Orrex]

98. ^^That

[Wednesdays]

76. How you've survived here this long

is a mystery to me.

[heaven05]

46. as usual

hit the bullseye of truth. Something people here and elsewhere have foresaken because the truth is in short supply everywhere in america these days.

The star spangled anthem furor is something I had never thought about and had accepted this anthem on face value every time it was played and sung by americans. Then, thank you Colin Kaepernick, I learn that a slaveholding, dyed in the wool pro-slavery chump, penned this anthem with stanzas calling for the masscre of blacks who were promised their freedom by the 'enemy'(the british), if they fought against the american white man, the ONLY one with rights who were enslaving human beings based on some religious/social construct(s) created to justify slavery by the white man as a god given right. Whomever and whatever that god may be. Because of this latest rise in racism dredged up by the trumpenfuhrers campaign what could white americans expect from the victims of racist hate, murder and execution by white male and female police officers, police wannabes like zpig and hateful white supremacy cult wannabes and active members? These killings/murders are becoming the catylyst for trumpshirts racism along with the racist hyperbole from their fuhrer's campaign for POTUS.

g. zimmerman turned on, with his murder of Trayvon Martin, this latest spotlight on american racism that has always either been turned off with bullshit "be patient" ect. caveats, ignored with bullshit caveats of turn the other cheek, wait for the court case, which 9 out of ten times releases the murderer back into society with his/her gun toting rights intact to murder again. Betty Shelby, the officer that shot and killed an unarmed man shows me why there are so many adoring women in ecstasy at the trumpenfuhrer rallies. I have seens this type of reaction of adoration in rallies of pre WW2 and post 1933 germany when the first fuhrer was present.

As the OP suggests, take a knee white america and bow your head and ask for forgivness in letting white privilege and comfort guide you instead of a decent conscience when someone is murdered like a Trayvon Martin, Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown and many others including our latest murder victim, Terence Crutcher. I will never stand again for the national anthem because I know it WAS NOT written for my ancestors or even me today given the racist racial climate that is very ugly and widespread in this election season and is providing fertile ground for the rise of a New Nazi Party forming right here in Amerikkka.

HRC is our only hope to turn back thec RW tide that has been unchallenged and allowed to grow every since the 2000-4 RW theft of our electoral process and as the OP suggests, having enough people of good conscience take that metaphorical knee and in numbers enough to let the Nazi Party of America know that it won't be the same as it was in 1933.

To me it was/is very sad that an AA POTUS is what it has taken to show the truth of american culture/society, politics and race relations.

[loyalsister]

75. + 1000000

So very well said. Thanks!

[DustyJoe]

49. How about

We do as our government always tell us to do.

Keep a calm head, wait for all the details, not jump to conclusionns
and
Let the American justice system under AG Lynch at President Obamas direction adjudicate this matter.

I'll continue to stand if I hear the countrys National Anthem as our leaders work on the problem.
I take a knee at church, nowhere else.

[Renaissance Man]

56. This is ironic.

Always doing what our government tells us to do without question is kind of the very definition of fascism.

Thanks for revealing who you are.

[DustyJoe]

58. revealing it is

President Obama always cautions us to not make snap judgements, so according to you following our Presidents suggestions makes him a fascist leader I guess. Very revealing on your part indeed. How renaissancy.

[Renaissance Man]

61. Is President Obama a dictator?

... or is he a paid public servant that is sworn to faithfully execute the laws of the United States?

If he's the latter, then he's sworn to faithfully execute the First Amendment, and I (nor any other American) is required to follow his lead. This means that we can question law enforcement at any time during an issue of public concern, not only when he wants us to.

Unless we live in a fascist country.

[liberalmuse]

52. Suspected terrorist bombers get better treatment...

than innocent black men. This is unacceptable.

[DustyJoe]

62. ^this is the one post that makes the most sense^ no judgements made, just astute observation NT

[Orrex]

99. "innocent black men"

Some cops see that as an oxymoron.

Wish I could k/r your reply.

[LeftyMom]

55. So far this thread has been entirely predictable.

There are some people who swear they're not bigots yet they're more likely to see a sasquatch than a sympathetic black man.

[johnp3907]

63. I must have all the "right people" on ignore.

Yours is the only comment I see!

[JustinL]

64. +1000. If anything, the author is being too polite.

IMO, "if your immediate response to the shooting of Terence Crutcher is to try and justify why he's dead," saying "you may be part of the problem" is a gross understatement. My thoughts about you are more along the lines of "disgusting racist," "boot-licking authoritarian," "enemy of humanity," etc.

[bighart]

65. The difference between a "moment" and a "movement"

is sacrifice. I hear Joe Madison say that all the time.

Would you rather whites join in a moment like taking a knee, or a movement like petitioning the government for a redress of grievances and working to hold police officers accountable?

Demanding anyone participate in a MOMENT does nothing advance the cause.

[kcr]

69. If you think it's so easy to not stand for the national anthem in post 9/11 America

You try it, next tim you're at a major public event. Or even at a small town one, which really now that I think about it can be even worse. Not standing for the national anthem can be a sacrifice right now in post 9/11 America. It's a brave thing to do. It gets students failing grades. It gets you at best dirty looks. It can get you much worse. Does nothing? Hardly. It sends quite the message.

I haven't been to an event like this but it has sent chills up my spine to see such bravery. And if more white people did this? Hell no it wouldn't be meaningless.

[bighart]

73. What changes do you expect simply not standing

For the national anthem will bring about?

[tonyt53]

101. I said the same thing early on in this thread. They don't get it. They have no idea.

When I suggested they attend city council meetings, run for a local office, or arrange neighborhood meetings between police and those living in the neighborhoods, they laughed and said that doesn't work. To me anyway, it is high time that they put down their damned cell phones and start moving. I even told them to ask Rep. John Lewis how to protest. It is like they have never heard of the guy or what he did. No friggin' idea.

[awoke_in_2003]

70. K&R

Too bad this has gotten a lot of white DUers worked up (BTW, I am white).

[davidn3600]

78. Anyone can sit or stand as they please

First amendment and all.

[melman]

84. If white Americans start 'taking a knee'

some blogger is guaranteed to find that offensive because appropriation etc etc..


and half these same people will rec it when it's posted here.

[Rex]

88. Nothing wrong with taking a knee, humility is sometimes the better way.

Good luck finding humility on the WWW.

[jack_krass]

92. No (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

93. Perhaps Joe Biden should take a lead on this,

as the most senior white person in the country?

[Dr. Strange]

102. Or maybe Hillary?

She's now the face of our party. She could take the lead.

[Nye Bevan]

103. I'm sure Bernie's fans too would be inspired by him taking a knee,

next time the National Anthem is sung in his presence.

[Dr. Strange]

106. Probably.

But outside of the "Bernie Bros", I don't think anyone would care.

Building on this OP, imagine Obama and Hillary together at some event, both taking a knee during the anthem? That would be seismic. An act of frickin' biblical proportions.

[Odin2005]

95. The amount of White Privilage in this thread is horrifying.

When the fuck did DU turn into Reddit???

[Nye Bevan]

100. And yet zero posts in this thread have been hidden by a jury.

Clearly changes need to be made.

[Odin2005]

116. The "Brogressives" have taken over.

There are several posters here who are unrepentant apologists for the Gamergate misogynist hate mob, and whenever there is a thread involving Islam it is infested with Islamophobes spewing RW bullshit.

[JTFrog]

113. 2012

The all new and improved DU.

[Blasphemer]

122. This past year has been terrifically eye-opening

Allies are few and far between. I recently ended a friendship because I am tired of self-proclaimed allies who are anything but.

[markpkessinger]

110. Kneeling in silence is not a disrespectful gesture . . .

. . . Indeed, if it is, someone had probably better inform Roman Catholics and many Episcopalians, who kneel regularly as an expression of reverence!

But beyond that, what kind of 'respect' is standing during the national anthem anyway if it is compulsory? Genuine respect can only be earned and then received as a gift; it can never be demanded or compelled.

[LWolf]

117. This white American agrees.

Either you're okay with racism, either you are okay with innocent black men killed for no good reason, or you become part of the efforts to bring attention and demand change. I don't see a middle ground. Not anymore.

[tenderfoot]

119. I cannot help but notice that the only people upset by this are WHITES

eom