Either Edward Snowden Is Lying—or His Former Boss Is

[DonViejo]

How much did the NSA leaker really know about the agency’s surveillance? Snowden and the man who supervised him are making radically different claims.

SHANE HARRIS

09.17.16 1:13 AM ET

Either Edward Snowden is lying or his former boss is. That’s one way to read contradictory statements from the two men about whether Snowden actually knew that much about one of the most controversial surveillance programs that he exposed to the world three years ago.
It’s a program that gives the National Security Agency access to data from the world’s biggest technology companies, including Facebook and Google, and it features prominently in the new Oliver Stone biopic “Snowden,” which premieres Friday and portrays its namesake as a genius hacker who saw first-hand how the NSA abused its formidable powers. That movie has renewed a long-simmering battle between Snowden and his critics. And it’s revealing new information about the biggest leak from the U.S. intelligence community in decades.

For the first time, the man who hired Snowden as a contractor for Booz Allen Hamilton at an NSA facility in Hawaii said Snowden actually didn’t have any access to that program, known commonly as PRISM. What’s more, Steven Bay said, Snowden failed to understand the regime of oversight and legal scrutiny in place to prevent unauthorized spying on Americans.

“He asked me two or three times on how to get access to what essentially was the PRISM data—we didn’t call it that internally, but that’s kind of what everyone knows it is,” Bay told the national security publication The Cipher Brief this week. (The interview came days before a blistering report by the House Intelligence Committee that appeared timed to sully Snowden’s reputation in advance of the movie’s release. Snowden vehemently rebutted the report on Twitter.)

“That’s one of the interesting things about his story is that people don’t realize,” Bay continued, “he never actually had access to any of that data. All of the quote domestic collection stuff that he revealed, he never had access to that. So he didn’t understand the oversight and compliance, he didn’t understand the rules for handling it, and he didn’t understand the processing of it.”

-snip-

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/17/either-edward-snowden-is-lying-or-his-former-boss-is.html

[rgbecker]

1. So he didn't have access and it was carefully guarded....

And that's why it's now available at almost every major news organization across the planet.

Steve Bay is apparently an idiot.

[randome]

3. What do you mean by 'available'? I doubt major news organizations have any use for PRISM.

Which is just a secure means of transmitting sensitive data. Always presumably with a warrant, of course.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[rgbecker]

6. They may not have any use for it, but they now know of its existance.

PRISM began in 2007 in the wake of the passage of the Protect America Act under the Bush Administration.[11][12] The program is operated under the supervision of the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA Court, or FISC) pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).[13] Its existence was leaked six years later by NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who warned that the extent of mass data collection was far greater than the public knew and included what he characterized as "dangerous" and "criminal" activities.[14] The disclosures were published by The Guardian and The Washington Post on June 6, 2013. Subsequent documents have demonstrated a financial arrangement between NSA's Special Source Operations division (SSO) and PRISM partners in the millions of dollars.[15]

Documents indicate that PRISM is "the number one source of raw intelligence used for NSA analytic reports", and it accounts for 91% of the NSA's internet traffic acquired under FISA section 702 authority."[16][17] The leaked information came to light one day after the revelation that the FISA Court had been ordering a subsidiary of telecommunications company Verizon Communications to turn over to the NSA logs tracking all of its customers' telephone calls.[18][19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

[randome]

7. But PRISM is NOT used for mass data collection.

At least Snowden did not provide evidence that it is. He and Greenwald thought we would be cowed by...(this still makes me laugh)...a Powerpoint slide! With no context, no corroborating evidence. Just the low-hanging fruit of convincing us that we should be afraid such things exist.

Well, I'm also afraid that nuclear weapons exist. Will that be his next revelation?

If the NSA has a warrant to monitor someone's Internet usage, it makes perfect sense that there would be software enabling them to do so. Big deal.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[stonecutter357]

2. Time to come home comrade Edward!

[FreakinDJ]

4. Plausible Deniability

[randome]

5. If he DID have access, he could have revealed redacted info.

Remember, the NSA can read the President's email. The NSA can see our thoughts as we type. Any evidence of that, Snowden? Nope.

He always conveniently left out information about the checks and balances that prevent abuse of this system. Because he had no idea what they were.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[truebluegreen]

8. Yer funny.

I suppose you consider the rubber-stamp FISA court a "check."

[randome]

9. Yes. It is.

Prosecutors rarely go before a court -any court, not just a FISA court- without a firm conviction that their request will be granted. Only once in a blue moon do they come away disappointed.

If you want to convince anyone that the FISA court is different, then you need to look at how non-intelligence agency courts handle requests from law enforcement.

I have no doubt you'll find that the vast majority of those requests are also granted.

Of course maybe the entire judicial system in America is a 'rubber-stamp'. But you'd have a hard time convincing me of that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[truebluegreen]

10. There is theory and there is practice.

In my view the government is broken and will remain so, because the people who own it want it that way. The government and its prosecutors have their agenda and will pursue it, using the trappings of law and the myth of perfect safety to justify protecting the government's power above all else (think COINTELPRO for example).

I realize there is no way of convincing you of that so I'm just going to leave it there.

[RAFisher]

11. I'm agreeing with you.

No way do I think a court that meets in secret and who's membership is picked by one man (Chief Justice John Roberts) is somehow not a kangaroo court. Snowden revealed some of the seemingly unconstitutional programs that the court allowed.

[truebluegreen]

12. Thank you.

And welcome to DU.

[mythology]

14. The contention you're making has multiple possible causes

It could be that yes every prosecutor dots every I and crosses every t. It could also be that the FISA court doesn't provide an adequate check on government power. Which seems more likely? That in the first 24 years of the court 1 case was appealed and only 4 rejected in the first 25 years out of a total of 18,742 warrants and everything is fine, without any external review, or the system is rigged in favor of approving warrants?

It defies belief to presume nobody screwed up in that amount of time.

That's not counting the fact that not only does the target not have representation, there wasn't even a public advocate until 2015. A one-sided court is antithetical to our legal system. The FISA court is a joke and should be ruled unconstitutional.

[Tarheel_Dem]

13. Oliver Stone must be so pissed!

5 Reasons Why ‘Snowden’ Couldn’t Hack It at the Box Office
Tough subject matter and weak reviews hurt Oliver Stone‘s film about NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden

Beatrice Verhoeven | Published 8:50 am, Sunday, September 18, 2016

“Snowden” opened to $8 million in theaters this weekend, a disappointing fourth-place start for the Joseph Gordon-Levitt drama about NSA whistle blower Edward Snowden that was produced for $40 million.

Tough subject matter, tough critics and numerous release date changes are just a few reasons why “Snowden” underperformed on 2,443 screens — though the fact that it landed an A from theatergoers surveyed by CinemaScore suggests that it may have some holding power in coming weeks due to positive word of mouth.

Even director Oliver Stone told TheWrap that studios shied away from the film despite a great script and co-star Shailene Woodley.

2. Joseph Gordon-Levitt Isn’t a Box Office Draw Anymore

The actor hasn’t exactly packed ‘em in for his recent movies. His film “The Walk” was produced on a budget of $35 million, but only grossed $10.1 million domestically after a $3.4 million debut weekend.

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/5-Reasons-Why-Snowden-Might-Not-Hack-It-at-9226205.php

Try, as they might, Hollywood still can't make America give a shit about this traitorous little shit. The Snowdenistas dragged their spouses, disgruntled neighbors, and even the family pet to this fiasco, and still couldn't get out of last place.

[Blue_Tires]

15. Epic kick

I should be taking a victory lap or something...

I've been telling everyone for three years now that this whole hero myth was a house of cards, and would collapse once somebody started asking real questions... And nobody should dare act surprised, because 80% of the issues brought up this week, I've been asking since the beginning...

[Egnever]

16. The super hacker part is pretty funny

Like copying files you have access to is hacking.

[msanthrope]

17. Right after I throw my "I Told You Assange Was An Epic Douche" 10k run. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

18. You sure have, and I appreciate it. I heard a very interesting question raised on NPR today. One..

of the callers, or one of the panelists posited that it seems that Russian intrusion into our political process, especially on the Democratic side, seems to have escalated with Snowie sitting there in Moscow. You have to wonder if there's a connection.