Student's grades lowered for sitting during Pledge of Allegiance

[KamaAina]

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/california/students-grades-lowered-for-sitting-during-pledge-of-allegiance/319009465

Leilani Thomas has been sitting out the Pledge of Allegiance since way before she knew who Colin Kaepernick was. The Native American high school student has been protesting silently since she was in second grade.

“My mom and my dad brought up what it meant to us and our people,” Leilani said. “So I just started sitting down.”

But for the first time a teacher at Lower Lake High School took issue with it and docked her participation grade for not standing.

“She told me I was being disrespectful and I was pretty mad,” Leilani said. “She was being disrespectful to me also, saying I was making bad choices, and I don’t have the choice to sit during the pledge.”

Gosh, I love our Blue state!

[madaboutharry]

1. Her teacher needs to read the Constitution.

[Gabi Hayes]

2. 1943

In West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette (319 U.S. 624), the Supreme Court rules that requiring a person to say the pledge is violating the first and fourteenth amendments.

The case involved a Jehovah's Witness student refusing to say the pledge in schools on the grounds it was against his or her religious beliefs.

[Gabi Hayes]

4. dunno how this can be, as the SCOTUS ruling above should supercede this:

November 12, 2010 - The First U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upholds a lower court ruling that a New Hampshire law requiring schools to recite the pledge is not unconstitutional.

anybody?

[X_Digger]

6. Err.. that's not what that NH law did.

It required schools to set aside time for students to allow students to recite the pledge if they so wish.

I'm curious what whackadoo site you got that quote from, because it's grossly mischaracterized.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. It's not really inaccurate because it says schools. That's the way I read it anyway.

Inaccurate because schools don't recite the pledge. Students do.

Does the law say set aside time or does it require the school to lead it???

[X_Digger]

23. Schools are required to set aside time for the pledge. No student is forced to say or participate.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1544507.html

Here's the text of the law in question:

II. A school district shall authorize a period of time during the school day for the recitation of the pledge of allegiance. Pupil participation in the recitation of the pledge of allegiance shall be voluntary.

Fucking duh.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. Still didn't answer the question. But move on along...

[Gabi Hayes]

20. here:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/04/us/pledge-of-allegiance-fast-facts/

care to elaborate? that's why I posted this, cause I can't reconcile the apparent conflict vis a vis precedence

[X_Digger]

24. Don't get your legal opinions from an unnamed CNN editor

Read the case for yourself- http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1544507.html

[Gabi Hayes]

32. what's with the attiude toward everybody? you a lawyer or something?

supercilious much?

fucking duh

[Major Nikon]

25. The law in question specifically says individual participation is voluntary

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xv/194/194-15-c.htm

[marybourg]

27. This is THE LAW on the matter. nt.

[bhikkhu]

5. I'd stand up for that

but not so much for the "flag". I always said too many people saw that waving on the other side, at bullets mowed then down (thinking of Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, etc).

[napi21]

3. I HOPE this student has someone to complain to to have this fixed.

Principal, School Board, SOMEBODY who will reprimand the teacher and restore the student's grades.

[lindysalsagal]

15. I hope she sues the BOE for a nice chunk of college tuition $$.

She'd win.

[LWolf]

7. I'm glad to see

the superintendent supporting her.

The article doesn't say anything about what grade/s might have been lowered; the only grade open to lowering for this would be citizenship, and that can obviously be argued. I doubt her grade is going to suffer when the superintendent backs her.

[LeftyMom]

14. Participation.

Saw it in another article.

[LWolf]

17. In what subject?

Grades are given for subjects. Some places include participation in that, but it still needs a subject.

Or, maybe not. Maybe this district simply tosses "participation" onto a report card by itself?

[LeftyMom]

21. The participation component of her grade for whatever class she's in when they do the pledge.

[LWolf]

22. That's an easily fought grade.

I've only taught in 2 states, of course, not 50, but assigning academic grades for participation in activities that are not part of that academic subject is already not done in many states.

This may move the district to review a policy that allows grades to be reflected by something other than performance in that subject, especially with the superintendent sympathetic.

[alarimer]

8. I don't believe in pledges of allegiance

Not to countries, not to people, not to anything.

[Major Nikon]

9. The Nazis were pretty big on pledges of allegiance

It's not hard to understand why. Blind devotion to anything just isn't that smart, unless you need useful idiots that will carry out your agenda without question.

[LWolf]

18. It's disturbing.

[Rex]

10. Teachers should keep their opinions to themselves and it was wrong to lower a grade

based on a teachers world view.

[lindysalsagal]

16. It wasn't wrong: It was illegal, and that teacher should be fired.

[Blue Idaho]

26. If that teacher is to keep their job

They need to correct the record and restore the students grade. They also need to apologize to the student in front of the class. If they won't do these two things, they should be removed from their post without pay until a judgement is made based on the contract they signed and the schools removal for cause policy.

No one loses their employment rights just because we don't like what they did.

[lindysalsagal]

29. Yes, they do, if they use grades to punish. Not allowed.

Teachers can withold the extras, like trips, concerts, games, recess, lunch with friends, preferred seating, etc. But they cannot use grades to punish bad behaviors. Grades are earned and cannot be tampered with for any reason.

[Blue Idaho]

34. I think I know something about teachers and grades...

I taught for 31 years during which time I was also Division chair in my college. Rules governing High school are really no different. No matter how odeous - nothing should remove a faculty members due process rights. In the end they may very well lose their jobs for violating procedures - if remediation is not possible or warranted but all teaching jobs come with inherent rights. Even in cases of termination for cause. Some alegations may require the faculty member to be removed from their office and the campus immediately, but their due process rights remain.

Let me ask you this - in the end, as Democrats, shouldn't we want all employees to have due process rights to protect them from wrongful termination due to maternity, age, sickness, or political affialiation? In this country everyone is innocent until proven guilty - and that involves due process and protection of rights.

[ronnie624]

11. Demanding that a native American grovel before the symbol of their oppression.

I wonder what benefit to society, patriots presume this provides.

[dembotoz]

12. even jesse ventura has this right

i know he is a pariah here and i do not support him and all that yada yada yada
but in this case he says what he says very well in a manner that is easy to understand

https://www.facebook.com/businessinsider/videos/10153901411434071/

[nolabear]

13. This is unethical. The teachers should not be allowed to mix grades with personal opinions.

Jesus, where are the standards?

[Duval]

28. That teacher needs to be...

I'd like to just slap her silly. This is outrageous! Does the Constitution mean nothing to her?

[ChoppinBroccoli]

30. I've Always Had A Problem With The Pledge. Know Why?

For all the times we've stood up and recited it by rote, has anyone ever actually stopped to understand what we were SAYING? What exactly is it we're pledging our allegiance to? It ain't this country, or the Constitution that is its lifeblood, or swearing to uphold its laws, or swearing to protect this country from all enemies foreign or domestic, or anything like that. Listen to the words.

We're pledging allegiance to...........THE FLAG.

That's right. All the times we stood up and rattled it off, and all the times right-wingers lost their shit over people not wanting to say it, it was all about people pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth. A SYMBOL.

So, forgetting for a moment just how much I abhor loyalty oaths, just what exactly does it mean to pledge your loyalty to a FLAG? And what if the flag changes, as our flag has done MANY TIMES over the course of our history? It would be a different flag. Does that release us from our oath of loyalty?

Has anyone really bothered to think about what is actually going on here?

[Odin2005]

31. This is clear grounds for a lawsuit.

[Gabi Hayes]

33. I work in a grade school, refuse to acknowledge the pledge,

have gotten yelled at for it, have cited the WVa case.

I would stand for this, though: