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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Truth About Religion in America: The Founders Loathed Superstition and We Were Never a Christian
http://www.alternet.org/belief/155890/the_truth_about_religion_in_america%3A_the_founders_loathed_superstition_and_we_were_never_a_christian_nation/The Truth About Religion in America: The Founders Loathed Superstition and We Were Never a Christian Nation
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Once they begin to circulate, falsehoodslike counterfeit currencyare surprisingly tenacious. It doesnt matter that theres no backing for them. The only thing that counts is that people believe they have backing. Then, like bad coins, they turn up again and again.
One counterfeit idea that circulates with frustrating stubbornness is the claim that America was founded as a Christian nation. Its one of the Christian Rights mantras and a favorite talking point for televangelists, religious bloggers, born-again authors and lobbyists, and pulpit preachers. Take, for example, the Reverend Peter Marshall. Before his death in 2010, he strove mightily (and loudly) to restore America to its traditional moral and spiritual foundations, as his still-active website says, by telling the truth about Americas Christian heritage. Or consider WallBuilders, a national pro-family organization founded by David Barton, whose mission is educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country. Called Americas historian by his admirers, Barton is a prolific writer of popular books that spin his Christian version of American history. And then theres Cynthia Dunbar, an attorney and one-time professor at Liberty University School of Law. Shes another big pusher of the Christian America currency. Her 2008 polemic One Nation Under God proclaims that the Christian foundational truths on which the nation rests are being eroded by a socialistic, secularistic, humanistic mindset from which Christians need to take back the country.
Unlike some of the wackier positions taken by evangelicalsthink Rapturethe claim that America was founded as a Christian nation has gone relatively mainstream. This is the case largely because the media-savvy Christian Right is good at getting across its message. A 2007 First Amendment Center poll revealed that 65 percent of Americans believe the founders intended the United States to be a Christian nation; over half of us think that this intention is actually spelled out somewhere in the Constitution. Conservative politicians sensitive to the way the wind blows are careful to echo the sentiment, or at least not to dispute it, even if theyre not particularly religious themselves. Recent GOP presidential aspirants Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Perry championed the claim with gusto. Even John McCain, who usually left the Bible-thumping to his Alaskan running mate, jumped on the bandwagon in his failed 2008 bid for the presidency by assuring a Beliefnet interviewer that this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles and that he personally would be disturbed if a non-Christian were elected to the highest office in the land.
So the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation is widespread. In the currency of ideas, its the ubiquitous penny. But like an actual penny, it doesnt have a lot of value. That so many people think it does is largely because they dont stop to consider what founded as a Christian nation might signify. Presumably the intended meaning is something like this: Christian principles are the bedrock of both our political system and founding documents because our founders were themselves Christians. Although wordier, this reformulation is just as perplexing because its not clear whats meant by the term founders. Just who are we talking about here?
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)That the founding fathers intended the Constitution to be secular is beyond question; motions to include religious references at the Constitutional Convention were voted down. We know this from the 1788 pamphlet written by NJ-born Luther Martin, who was a delegate for Maryland.
The Constitution's secularism was decried by colonial clergy. John M. Mason, D.D. complained in a 1793 sermon that the "very Constitution which the singular goodness of God enabled us to establish, does not so much as recognize his being! ... From the Constitution of the United States, it is impossible to ascertain what God we worship; or whether we own a God at all ."
Thomas Jefferson said it even more directly in an 1814 letter to Dr, Thomas Cooper, stating that " Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. "
Anyone who claims the intention of the founding fathers was to establish a Christian nation should review Article 11 of the Treaty with Tripoli declared in part that "the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..." This treaty was negotiated during the administration of George Washington and ratified by the Senate under President Adams. (The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution says the U.S. Constitution, U.S. Treaties, and laws made pursuant to the U.S. Constitution, shall be "the supreme law of the land."
"E Pluribus Unum" was the original U.S. motto put forth by a committee consisting of Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Pierre Eugene du Simitiere. It appears on the Great Seal of the United States but was never codified into law. "In God We Trust" is a recent invention, put into law in 1956. No one remembers the names of the congressmen who sponsored that bill.
Our Founding Fathers were wise men and had a healthy skepticism about the role of religion in government. Anyone who claims to respect the traditions of the United States should recognize that fact and stop trying to rewrite history to suit their personal beliefs.
Martin Eden
(12,881 posts)I hope it was published
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)and I got some excellent feedback from the community.
SaB2012
(101 posts)There seems to be a lot of "Christian nation" LTTEs across the country in recent days.
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)The word must have gone out to write LTTE on behalf of this group--
WallBuilders is an organization founded by Republican Party activist and self-proclaimed historian David Barton for the purpose of "educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country." Barton and his work are routinely cited by those on the Right who claim that the United States was founded by Christian men on explicitly Christian principles.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/wallbuilders
This guy is David Barton, a Republican Party activist and a fast-talking, self-promoting, self-taught, self-proclaimed historian who is miseducating millions of Americans about U.S. history and the Constitution.
Barton has been profitably peddling a distorted Christian nation version of American history to conservative religious audiences for the past two decades. His books and videos denouncing church-state separation have been repeatedly debunked by respected historians, but that hasnt kept Barton from becoming a folk hero for many in the Religious Right. His eagerness to help elect Republicans has won him gratitude and support from national as well as state and local GOP leaders. Former senator Sam Brownback, now the governor of Kansas, has said that Bartons research provides the philosophical underpinning for a lot of the Republican effort in the country today bringing God back into the public square. Indeed, Time Magazine named him one of the nations 25 most influential evangelical Christians in 2005.
Barton broadened his audience when Fox News Glenn Beck became a fan. Last year, Beck invited Barton to appear regularly on his Founders Fridays broadcasts, sending Bartons books up the bestseller lists. And when Beck brought his messianic road show to Washington, D.C. in August 2010, Barton shared the stage with him. At Americas Divine Destiny, the kick-off event on the eve of Becks Lincoln Memorial rally, Barton waved copies of old books and sermons and argued that the nations founding documents were essentially cribbed from colonial-era sermons.
http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/barton-s-bunk-religious-right-historian-hits-the-big-time-tea-party-america?gclid=CNzwzcuT1bACFUOo4AoduAxZ1g
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)got to be an American citizen. I don't recall Him taking the oath and He sure as hell isn't indiginous. Last I heard he was from the Middle East and, thanks to God, the Middle East isn't the most peaceful part of the globe. Why would we want that here?
spin
(17,493 posts)
Deism
Deism (Listeni/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/[1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/) is a religious philosophy which holds that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of an intelligent creator. According to deists, the creator never intervenes in human affairs or suspends the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending instead to assert that a god (or "the Supreme Architect" does not alter the universe by intervening in it. This idea is also known as the clockwork universe theory, in which a god designs and builds the universe, but steps aside to let it run on its own. Two main forms of deism currently exist: classical deism and modern deism.
***snip***
Deism in the United States
In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters, and the principle of religious freedom expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.
Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen,[44] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).
In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45][46] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington.[47][48][49]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Deism_in_the_United_States
The U.S. Founding Fathers: Their Religious Beliefs
Although the Declaration of Independence mentioned Natures God and the Creator, the Constitution made no reference to a divine being, Christian or otherwise, and the First Amendment explicitly forbid the establishment of any official church or creed. There is also a story, probably apocryphal, that Benjamin Franklins proposal to call in a chaplain to offer a prayer when a particularly controversial issue was being debated in the Constitutional Convention prompted Hamilton to observe that he saw no reason to call in foreign aid. If there is a clear legacy bequeathed by the founders, it is the insistence that religion was a private matter in which the state should not interfere.
***snip***
In recent decades Christian advocacy groups, prompted by motives that have been questioned by some, have felt a powerful urge to enlist the Founding Fathers in their respective congregations. But recovering the spiritual convictions of the Founders, in all their messy integrity, is not an easy task. Once again, diversity is the dominant pattern. Franklin and Jefferson were deists, Washington harbored a pantheistic sense of providential destiny, John Adams began a Congregationalist and ended a Unitarian, Hamilton was a lukewarm Anglican for most of his life but embraced a more actively Christian posture after his son died in a duel.
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2007/02/the-us-founding-fathers-their-religious-beliefs/
edited to correct link
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)But they considered their relationship with god a personal thing. Keeping religion out of government was as important to them as keeping government out of religion.
That's the point the religious revisionists keep missing.
To quote Jefferson:
"The error seems not sufficiently eradicated, that the operations of the mind, as well as the acts of the body, are subject to the coercion of the laws. But our rulers can have authority over such natural rights only as we have submitted to them. The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. If it be said, his testimony in a court of justice cannot be relied on, reject it then, and be the stigma on him. Constraint may make him worse by making him a hypocrite, but it will never make him a truer man. It may fix him obstinately in his errors, but will not cure them. Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error. Give a loose to them, they will support the true religion, by bringing every false one to their tribunal, to the test of their investigation. They are the natural enemies of error, and of error only. Had not the Roman government permitted free enquiry, Christianity could never have been introduced. Had not free enquiry been indulged, at the aera of the reformation, the corruptions of Christianity could not have been purged away. If it be restrained now, the present corruptions will be protected, and new ones encouraged."
inna
(8,809 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)After all, something like 30% of slaves brought to the US were adherants if Islam. There were a few other figures as well, like the explorer John Ledyard, who converted while in Egypt.
Brainstormy
(2,381 posts)It is contended by many that ours is a Christian government, founded upon the Bible, and that all who look upon the book as false or foolish are destroying the foundation of our country. The truth is, our government is not founded upon the rights of gods, but upon the rights of men. Our Constitution was framed, not to declare and uphold the deity of Christ, but the sacredness of humanity. Ours is the first government made by the people and for the people. It is the only nation with which the gods have had nothing to do. And yet there are some judges dishonest and cowardly enough to solemnly decide that this is a Christian country, and that our free institutions are based upon the infamous laws of Jehovah.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll, "Individuality" (1873)
Ilsa
(61,709 posts)I suspect people get confused on this subject because of the earliest colonists, the Pilgrims, who sought religious freedom here. Those early colonies had strict rules and enforcements of religious practices dictated by most senior males of the community.
People don't realize the amount of time that passed between the colonists and the generation that led the Revolution, or the changes in social order.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)what they don't seem to realize when it comes to the Pilgrims is that they fled here to gain religious freedom... i.e., they didn't want the royalty of England to tell them what God they could worship or how. How that then became that we were founded as a Christian nation (as you said, the Pilgrims didn't "found" this nation) is beyond me. Also as you pointed out, I think if we lived according the Pilgrim's religious practices today, if that were reintroduced into society, today's so-called Christians wouldn't make it. They were some harsh task masters, just ask the innocent folks in Salem.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The non-Puritans on the boat wanted to go to Virginia, and not some rocky asshole wilderness to be governed by men with belt buckles on their heads...
dionysus
(26,467 posts)JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)not enough influence from Christianity in the government. Oh yes, I read it right here at DU.
I don't get why religionists can't just keep their religion privately and leave the rest of us alone.
Julie
66 dmhlt
(1,941 posts)~ Thomas Jefferson
"Lighthouses are more useful than churches."
~ Benjamin Franklin
"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
~ John Adams declares in the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it"
~ John Adams
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
~ Thomas Jefferson
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)common sense. It's a shame it's all been lost
mmonk
(52,589 posts)obamanut2012
(26,164 posts)Judge Crier was originally a Republican, but she really seemed to do a 180 after W was (s)elected. A big chunk of this book discusses the same thing as your OP.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)obamanut2012
(26,164 posts)And took her show off.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)obamanut2012
(26,164 posts)But, I wish HLN could give her a show.
NeverEnuff
(147 posts)Many of the Founding Fathers were Free Masons. One of the principles of Masonry is that each man defines God in his own way. It is one of the many core Masonic principles included by the Founding Fathers in our Constitution. Masons consider this principle so inviable that religious discussion is forbidden in the Lodge and each member is encouraged to " remain faithful to faith of his own convictions",
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)them haven't really even read and comprehended the bible. They are just parrots, tools of the wealthy religious elite, made to believe they are special and set on pillars by the elite so as to enhance the elite's riches.
It's all about politics and money, power, control and domination, and this BS that we were founded as a Christian nation is one more tentacle to suck in cash from the faithful. I wish they would all take the fast route to the rapture and leave the rest of us the F alone.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)They conveniently forget that one.
Zax2me
(2,515 posts)I'd be rich but with no correct answers.
bhikkhu
(10,725 posts)...as detailed by Madison in his extensive published notes - at one point the long uncomfortable summer dragged on and progress seemed to be tediously slow, one delegate suggested that perhaps they should hire a minister to begin the proceedings each day with a prayer for speedy progress. Another delegate questioned as to exactly who should be expected to pay for such a minister. A third delegate (Pinckney of South Carolina, if I remember right) stated that, in any case, he saw no need for foreign intervention.
Discussion closed, and it wasn't ever mentioned again.
If you actually read about how the constitution was written and the debates and discussions about it during the convention, that one bit is pretty close to the only mention of religion the entire time!