Charlie Wilson: "These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world...

[elleng]

and then we fucked up the end game."

Charlie Wilson, the former congressman from Texas whose funding of Afghanistan's resistance to the Soviet Union was chronicled in the movie and book "Charlie Wilson's War."

Wilson represented the 2nd District in east Texas in the U.S. House from 1973 to 1996 and was known in Washington as "Good Time Charlie" for his reputation as a hard-drinking womanizer. He once called former congresswoman Pat Schroeder "Babycakes," and tried to take a beauty queen with him on a government trip to Afghanistan.

Actor Tom Hanks portrayed Wilson in the 2007 movie about Wilson's efforts to arm Afghan mujahedeen during Afghanistan's war against the Soviet Union in the 1980s. Wilson, a member of the House Appropriations Committee, helped secure money for weapons, plunging the U.S. into a risky venture against the world's other superpower.

http://realneo.us/content/these-things-happened-they-were-glorious-and-they-changed-world-and-then-we-fucked-end-game-

Just saw the movie (for the 2d time.)

[MADem]

1. I remember Babycakes (!!) I didn't call her that, I called her "Ma'am."

She came through Europe on a CODEL and was one of the most approachable legislators I ever encountered. A smart, engaged and very decent human being--she impressed me.

[rusty quoin]

2. I like watching some movies several times.

I liked this movie. I recently joined the "movies group". I wish there was more action there talking about movies.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

3. It's a really old movie. Who wants a nuclear war?

[longship]

5. Really? 2007 is a really old movie?????

And there's nothing in the story about nuclear weapons. Nothing!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. Do you know today's date? and war is only cool in a movie...

Is war romantic? I served during Vietnam.
Albert Einstein
“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

Future collateral damage:

[longship]

7. Fine, fine. It's still a good flick. nt

[longship]

4. It is a damned good flick.

The cast brings the story to life, Mike Nichols' last film before he died.

Philip Seymour Hoffman is amazing as CIA operative Gust Avrokatos and Tom Hanks as Charlie Wilson and Julia Roberts as Joanne Herring are great.

Wilson was quite a character, as told in the film.

Highly recommended.

[BlueMTexpat]

9. The film may be a good flick.

But it is factually inaccurate in its most important aspect. Please see my response below.

[BlueMTexpat]

8. Charlie Wilson was no hero. Not at all.

The movie is factually incorrect in its most important aspect. Charlie Wilson's efforts actually assisted the MOST fanatic group, NOT that of Massoud, as the movie tries to make one believe.

Please read the following article from 2008 by journalist Edward Girardet, who reported on the spot from and about Afghanistan in the 1980s-1990s and whom I have met in person. http://www.essentialgeneva.com/?p=267

From the link:

The United States must bear much of the responsibility for this. Following the 1989 Soviet withdrawal, the U.S. ignored the consequences of funneling weapons to Afghan extremist groups, such as Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Hezb-e-Islami faction. This led to rampant lawlessness enabling the Taliban to emerge in the mid-1990s as a relatively popular movement among Afghans exhausted by war.

Seven years into the intervention, the ignorance is perpetuated by the Tom Hanks movie, Charlie Wilson’s War based on the book by CBS producer George Crile (left with Wilson in Peshawar). Hollywood would have one believe that the pro-Western Massoud was the principal beneficiary for US covert aid, thanks to Texas Congressman Charlie Wilson. In reality, Massoud received very little. The film completely fails to mention Wilson’s involvement with Hekmatyar, a virulently anti-American resistance politician.

Working closely with the Pakistanis, Wilson ensured that Hekmatyar received the bulk of U.S. backing as Afghanistan’s “most effective” guerrilla leader. Many journalists and western aid workers, however, had a completely different assessment. Hekmatyar relentlessly murdered Afghan intellectuals and attacked mujahed rivals. Some State Department officials raised concerns about his blatant efforts to undermine the resistance, but no one listened. Wilson had a war to fight.

By 2002, Washington had designated Hekmatyar an “international terrorist.” The Central Intelligence Agency even tried to kill its former protégé, but failed. Hekmatyar is now operating from along the Afghan-Pakistan border and is believed to be behind some of the worst bombings that have killed and maimed hundreds.

For some excellent insight into post 1979-pre-2001 events in Afghanistan, I highly recommend Girardet's books: Afghanistan: The Soviet War and Killing the Cranes.

See also: Edward Girardet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Girardet

Girardet was also the first American reporter to meet and write about Afghan resistance leader, Ahmed Shah Massoud in the summer of 1981. Girardet narrowly escaped being killed, or at least serious injury in September, 1981 when he travelled up to northern Afghanistan to see Massoud just before the latter was assassinated by two Al-Qaeda operatives. Posing as journalists, the two suicide bombers lived in the guesthouse room in Khoja Bauhouddin next to Girardet, who was on assignment for National Geographic. Girardet left several days before the assassination on 9 September 2001 because, as he wrote in Killing the Cranes, he had to get back to Europe for his wife's birthday on 13 September.

eta this: Please note that the above excerpt is incorrect about Girardet's escaping death or serious injury in September 1981. The date should be 2001.

[Calista241]

10. What is factually accurate is that we supplied arms and missiles

And the Afghans blew up helicopters and tanks, eventually driving the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

Yes, some of our money and much of the Saudi money went to a group that was questionable in its goals and a few decades later became a force for evil. That doesn't change the fact that Charlie Wilson's and the CIA's efforts won a "war" against the USSR, and did it without spending trillions of dollars and sacrificing thousands of American lives.

The quote is also germane to the movie, we defeated our arch enemy with minimal investment, and then abandon our former allies. If we'd have stayed more involved, things might've turned out differently.

[BlueMTexpat]

11. While I agree with much of what

you say, this part is simply not true:

That doesn't change the fact that Charlie Wilson's and the CIA's efforts won a "war" against the USSR, and did it without spending trillions of dollars and sacrificing thousands of American lives.

That is indeed the RW version and the RWers LOVE it. But the fact is that with perestroika and other events in the 1980s the USSR was on its last legs economically regardless of what we did in Afghanistan and would ultimately have imploded in and of itself. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1989-1992/collapse-soviet-union

What we did by supplying the most radical groups in Afghanistan with weaponry (and destabilizing Central America in the process as well - remember Iran-Contra?) was to create some of our most vicious enemies who retaliated with 9-11. Thousands of lives were lost in the US from the WORST attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor. A war-mongering US Administration in office from 2001-2008 whose policies caused the deaths of thousands of Americans (and hundreds of thousands of lives throughout in Afghanistan and the ME), have cost us trillions of dollars and are still costing us trillions today. Plus we have a bunch of "-stans" and a ME that have NEVER been more destabilized.

So - fuck Charlie Wilson and any and everyone like him who collaborated with the most radical fundamentalist groups and thus contributed to the total mess we are faced with today - and fuck any who act as apologists for the parts that they played!